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He also did a 12.6 and will run it when its colder. His type S is also on bags so i don't know how much the air tank and equipment weigh but it probably makes a slight difference with the extra weight.
I think Acura ECU is cutting a lot of stuff and preventing this car from really going at it. I'm surprised even with the JB4 it's not touching 400+. Ohhh and the biggest liars about crank and whp is bmw. stock car says it's 340 from the factory but really dyno's 368? hmmmmmm lol.
i really need to drive a Type S i may go to my old Acura dealership and take one for a spin.
One of mine off the dealers floor years back was BMW rated @ 320BHP (crank). Baseline DynoJet - I made 3 pulls 319WHP, 319WHP, 321WHP (at the wheels). Have not done the Z4 myself & the M4C is a long way to go to finish break-in.
BMW says the Z4 M40i is 382BHP (crank) Burger baseline DynoJet says 399.29WHP (at the wheels). Then people wonder why they do so well against cars with the same or a bit more advertised horsepower. Better to under promise than over promise.
This is one of mine. No issues with the throttle as you can see at the very top but it was a bridge to far
We were slowly pushing out power tests with 100 octane & it was very stable, until it lost its mind when traction failed on a 2/3 shift. Blew (blue line) though the target boost (light purple line) & hit the PSI fail safe. System instantly pulled the timing way back, reddish line going off the bottom of the chart. Recovered almost instantly but the hard shock of the car slamming me against the belts did raise my heart rate.
BTW I found these charts way too busy. Started to refine them by only selecting a few related items to chart.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-20-2022 at 08:01 PM.
Re the dyno vids. Different people see different things & some only see what they want to see. This YouTube comment stood out on the vids. Was not sure what this guy was seeing.
This can be a 600 whp car with upgrades.. and with AWD . Very cool. Glad Acura is back in this scene.
Technically, he's correct.
You'd just need to upgrade the tune, full exhaust and turbo. And cylinder heads. And transmission. And differential. And driveshaft. And bottom end. And fuel system.
Seriously though, it's this type of "ricer math" that makes Honda fanboys laughing stocks in car enthusiast circles.
Now that's a machine, my cousin ordered his M3 Xdrive 4 months go and no production number yet. when my lease is up I'm leaning towards the 4 with Xdrive and ill treat my self the to carbon bucket seats lol. Any thoughts on sending your ECU to Femto for an unlock? MG flasher supports them now.
One of mine off the dealers floor years back was BMW rated @ 320BHP (crank). Baseline DynoJet - I made 3 pulls 319WHP, 319WHP, 321WHP (at the wheels). Have not done the Z4 myself & the M4C is a long way to go to finish break-in.
BMW says the Z4 M40i is 382BHP (crank) Burger baseline DynoJet says 399.29WHP (at the wheels). Then people wonder why they do so well against cars with the same or a bit more advertised horsepower. Better to under promise than over promise.
This is one of mine. No issues with the throttle as you can see at the very top but it was a bridge to far
We were slowly pushing out power tests with 100 octane & it was very stable, until it lost its mind when traction failed on a 2/3 shift. Blew (blue line) though the target boost (light purple line) & hit the PSI fail safe. System instantly pulled the timing way back, reddish line going off the bottom of the chart. Recovered almost instantly but the hard shock of the car slamming me against the belts did raise my heart rate.
BTW I found these charts way too busy. Started to refine them by only selecting a few related items to chart.
The graph was a Map 7 - 100 octane test run. Daily driver was a custom (logs/updates back & forth to BMS) 335is which could run Map 2 without downpipes, 335i could not. Mixed E85/93 Map 5 (custom). 335is also ran stacked piggyback/flash JB4/COBB experimental maps for part of 2012 & most of 2013.
Last use of JB4 was a few months ago. Was the 135is with Custom Map 1, 2 & 5 all 93 based except 5 which was 93/E85. Car was replaced by the M4C.
Its unlikely the Z4 or M4C will be tuned. Z4 is currently traction limited in 1st & 1/2 shift with 285 Michelins. Expect based on some pure stock numbers the stock 503BHP M4C on Dragy units that a 600WHP JB4 will not do much for me. Typical of what has been posted so far.
This post lines up with MT 15 quickest 0-60 2021 cars. Out of 220 cars #10 was the M3/4C @ 2.98. How tough it gets up there is from first to last just 1.03 second separates the quickest from the slowest 15 cars on the list. 1.98 to 3.01 They then noted that the #1 @ 1.98 was a cheater & retested it a 2.07. #1 Tesla stayed at #1 but was much closer to the #2 Ferrari SF-90 @ 2.10
Low mileage Pure Stock M4C Convertible. Dragy 1/4 mile time was 11.40 but the speed was 113MPH. Cross road on the Mexican highway he has to brake for. Same car JB4 + BMS air filters 0-60 2.87 (1ft rollout) 3.05 1/4 mile 10.99 @ 125MPH still braking for the cross street. 8.8 seconds 60–130mph.
Mine took 133 days waitlist to delivery including custom paint. Only chip hold out was the phone charger. MSRP + Tax & Tags no puff package add on's. Never did a MSRP before. Good trade-in numbers for the 135is & Genesis Coupe. Paid for the full Coupe price plus a small amount of change toward the 135.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-21-2022 at 01:02 PM.
The graph was a Map 7 - 100 octane test run. Daily driver was a custom (logs/updates back & forth to BMS) 335is which could run Map 2 without downpipes, 335i could not. Mixed E85/93 Map 5 (custom). 335is also ran stacked piggyback/flash JB4/COBB experimental maps for part of 2012 & most of 2013.
Last use of JB4 was a few months ago. Was the 135is with Custom Map 1, 2 & 5 all 93 based except 5 which was 93/E85. Car was replaced by the M4C.
Its unlikely the Z4 or M4C will be tuned. Z4 is currently traction limited in 1st & 1/2 shift with 285 Michelins. Expect based on some pure stock numbers the stock 503BHP M4C on Dragy units that a 600WHP JB4 will not do much for me. Typical of what has been posted so far.
This post lines up with MT 15 quickest 0-60 2021 cars. Out of 220 cars #10 was the M3/4C @ 2.98. How tough it gets up there is from first to last just 1.03 second separates the quickest from the slowest 15 cars on the list. 1.98 to 3.01 They then noted that the #1 @ 1.98 was a cheater & retested it a 2.07. #1 Tesla stayed at #1 but was much closer to the #2 Ferrari SF-90 @ 2.10
Low mileage Pure Stock M4C Convertible. Dragy 1/4 mile time was 11.40 but the speed was 113MPH. Cross road on the Mexican highway he has to brake for. Same car JB4 + BMS air filters 0-60 2.87 (1ft rollout) 3.05 1/4 mile 10.99 @ 125MPH still braking for the cross street. 8.8 seconds 60–130mph.
Mine took 133 days waitlist to delivery including custom paint. Only chip hold out was the phone charger. MSRP + Tax & Tags no puff package add on's. Never did a MSRP before. Good trade-in numbers for the 135is & Genesis Coupe. Paid for the full Coupe price plus a small amount of change toward the 135.
Awesome stuff, so far i've been stable on map 6, i alternate between E30 and 35 between fill ups. I also upgraded my pump to a Supra TU pump which your car already has 2 of them. 2 weeks ago i slapped on a set of Mich Pilot sport.....what a big difference, they road force load at 2lbs for each tire never seen that. super super smooth driving around. once the spring time comes around i will get my car on a dyno, i thinking about heading to KiesMotorosport and have them dyno it and then after these DME are unlocked slap on my E50 tune and just enjoy the 600ft lbs of torque.
im gonna put 2 gallons of E85 in my rdx this weekend and see how it runs. should be at a 95 octane mix. the Mix i use in my 240 is 97
Awesome stuff, so far i've been stable on map 6, i alternate between E30 and 35 between fill ups. I also upgraded my pump to a Supra TU pump which your car already has 2 of them. 2 weeks ago i slapped on a set of Mich Pilot sport.....what a big difference, they road force load at 2lbs for each tire never seen that. super super smooth driving around. once the spring time comes around i will get my car on a dyno, i thinking about heading to KiesMotorosport and have them dyno it and then after these DME are unlocked slap on my E50 tune and just enjoy the 600ft lbs of torque.
im gonna put 2 gallons of E85 in my rdx this weekend and see how it runs. should be at a 95 octane mix. the Mix i use in my 240 is 97
Amazing on how many supposedly smart car guys run their turbo cars all over the place looking for no ethanol 90 octane when they should be moving to the next pump for a few gallons of E85 to spice up the mix.
Won the tire lottery on both cars & they were delivered with the Michelins Pilot Sport 4S get flat summer tires. Forget what the other brand is they use maybe Bridgestone or Pirelli. My second choice would have been Continentals. Lots of guys that lost the lottery are not happy campers.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-21-2022 at 06:25 PM.
This thread, like many others in this subsection have gone off topic and turned into a BMW forum. I’m not sure which thread is which anymore since they all have the same topic.
This thread, like many others in this subsection have gone off topic and turned into a BMW forum. I’m not sure which thread is which anymore since they all have the same topic.
Sorry, thought it was a thread about the JB4 & how it might or might not effect the Type-S. Not many Type-S guys have any experience with them as they were mostly a BMW product until they added Hyundai/Kia, Mercedes Benz, VW/Audi, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Cadillac, Fiat Abarth, Ford, Honda, Jeep, Lexus, Maserati, McLaren, Mini, Porsche, Supra, Volvo. Newcomer Acura TLX Type-S charts do show things the guys with no financial interest in the product have seen that potential buyers might be interested in.
If you are not interested thats fine. That said if someone asks a question it would be rude not to respond even if it offends you.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-21-2022 at 07:32 PM.
Sorry, thought it was a thread about the JB4 & how it might or might not effect the Type-S. Not many Type-S guys have any experience with them as they were mostly a BMW product until they added Hyundai/Kia, Mercedes Benz, VW/Audi, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Cadillac, Fiat Abarth, Ford, Honda, Jeep, Lexus, Maserati, McLaren, Mini, Porsche, Supra, Volvo. Newcomer Acura TLX Type-S charts do show things the guys with no financial interest in the product have seen that potential buyers might be interested in.
If you are not interested thats fine. That said if someone asks a question it would be rude not to respond even if it offends you.
That’s fine. The other thread was derailed and had a moderator step in. Just saw this thread was heading in the same direction, that is all. Lots of posts to shuffle through for anything relative to the JB4 for the Type S. I can’t be the only user that doesn’t want to have to scour pages for anything relative to the Type S. I feel I accidentally logged on my BMW forum with the all brand boasting.
Last edited by richii0207; 01-21-2022 at 07:42 PM.
Sorry, thought it was a thread about the JB4 & how it might or might not effect the Type-S. Not many Type-S guys have any experience with them as they were mostly a BMW product until they added Hyundai/Kia, Mercedes Benz, VW/Audi, Infiniti, Alfa Romeo, Aston Martin, Cadillac, Fiat Abarth, Ford, Honda, Jeep, Lexus, Maserati, McLaren, Mini, Porsche, Supra, Volvo. Newcomer Acura TLX Type-S charts do show things the guys with no financial interest in the product have seen that potential buyers might be interested in.
If you are not interested thats fine. That said if someone asks a question it would be rude not to respond even if it offends you.
i think everyone is aware of the pattern of how this goes since it does on every thread. It was an active thread that was acura related and was starting to get steam rolled again. I dont think richii0207 is out of line at all in attempting to regain some traction. We all appreciate the relevant info on JB4 and thats where it started with your input as well, but when you get in to the specifics of comparing every model of BMW in existence in multiple lengthy posts we see where its headed and theres is bound to be some annoyance from the actual acura drivers when we see it starting up AGAIN. Try to see it from his side. It’s not just this thread its the majority of posts on this subforum that end up going the same way.
That’s fine. The other thread was derailed and had a moderator step in. Just saw this thread was heading in the same direction, that is all. Lots of posts to shuffle through for anything relative to the JB4 for the Type S. I can’t be the only user that doesn’t want to have to scour pages for anything relative to the Type S. I feel I accidentally logged on my BMW forum with the all brand boasting.
How about this. A few days ago I suggested here that they should combine all the JB4 related posts into this thread.....nothing was done. That would solve your problem so why don't you ask. Second thing, brands other than Acura work there way into the site when members compare their cars to those other brands, mostly German. So another suggestion was don't bring up the other brands for points of competition & most likely you would never read anything about them. Pretty simple actually.
BTW right now I don't think there is much of anything about the Type-S & JB4. Not enough units of either out in the market place yet. You can't even get a group of "pros" to get reasonable matching results on a pretty much idiot proof DynoJet. Its so simple to run the guy I use lets me run my own tests when they are not busy.
I don't really expect many here most of whom have said they don't care about traffic light to traffic light "street racing", 0-60, 1/4 mile, AutoX or running on a "track" for there to be much of a market for the JB4. Unless there has been some sort epiphany among the Type-S buyers.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-21-2022 at 10:30 PM.
Low mileage Pure Stock M4C Convertible. Dragy 1/4 mile time was 11.40 but the speed was 113MPH. Cross road on the Mexican highway he has to brake for. Same car JB4 + BMS air filters 0-60 2.87 (1ft rollout) 3.05 1/4 mile 10.99 @ 125MPH still braking for the cross street. 8.8 seconds 60–130mph..
Jesus H Christ. Not to keep harping on BMW, but those are Hellcat Redeye trap speeds. I think I need to start saving ... the F80 M3/M4 is turning out to be an absolute monster.
How about this. A few days ago I suggested here that they should combine all the JB4 related posts into this thread.....nothing was done. That would solve your problem so why don't you ask. Second thing, brands other than Acura work there way into the site when members compare their cars to those other brands, mostly German. So another suggestion was don't bring up the other brands for points of competition & most likely you would never read anything about them. Pretty simple actually.
BTW right now I don't think there is much of anything about the Type-S & JB4. Not enough units of either out in the market place yet. You can't even get a group of "pros" to get reasonable matching results on a pretty much idiot proof DynoJet. Its so simple to run the guy I use lets me run my own tests when they are not busy.
I don't really expect many here most of whom have said they don't care about traffic light to traffic light "street racing", 0-60, 1/4 mile, AutoX or running on a "track" for there to be much of a market for the JB4. Unless there has been some sort epiphany among the Type-S buyers.
I wonder which sensors the JB4 will connect to....map, tmap and EWG, also in there testing if the left the wastegate open fully to get more power on the dyno.
Yup those with locked DME's or who doesn't have a flash tune out yet will need to stick with a piggyback. JB4 does not supress the check engine light for catless downpipe. since the product is made in USA they have to follow some regulations. every other day my check engine light comes on i learned to live with it. It's a good product but the ECU flash is 1000000 times better. it took me almost 9 months of logging and making changes to finally get this thing stable with the right fuel bias parameters and boost pressure. Everyone should push Ktuner to gather logs and start working on a reflash im sure you can reach 400 whp with the reflash. Now next thing you guys will need to look up is your HPFP, see how much the psi output is to see how much E or racing gas you can run. 04WDPSeDaN is 10000 percent right on all of his comments, we got to meet up one day Bro 😊
As of now I’m satisfied for now with the JB4, I run Map 6 custom settings and Map 5 driving to cruise. The car is a complete beast just ripping it up all over I can’t imagine what the ecu tune will do it.
On a side not I got my RDX reflashed stage 2 ktuner, it hauls asss lol, went to Canada with it and was a breeze to drive. Feels like a powerful V6. Also for those with the Type S how’s the turbo lag is there is any?
Thank you for the kind words brotha! Yes, we really need to meet up soon. I think sometime in spring when car season starts, we can meet at a BMW event. Mostly have them in NYC vs in NJ.
Thank you for the kind words brotha! Yes, we really need to meet up soon. I think sometime in spring when car season starts, we can meet at a BMW event. Mostly have them in NYC vs in NJ.
Anytime and yeah we gotta meet up i will bring my brother and cousin. The brother just gave up his aspec and picked up the new 22 m240. He was so mad because he was promised a type S and put 500 to hold it and it never came. My cousin jumped on the German train and picking up his m340 today from his 2006 TL that just died last week. Only has 220k miles, got his money worth out of it.
next week i have some free time i need to stop by Acura and drive this Type S and see how it runs on the road.
Regarding using JB4 with a Type-S, wouldn't it cause confusion in the car's logic? It seems the Type-S is retarding acceleration at certain times to preserve the AWD/transmission. But if the JB4 is pumping in higher values, wouldn't the ECU cancel it out? In the long term, it would cause damage if it has continuous quick peaks and drops. I believe a proper ECU upgrade would be "safer" long term since it has a better "bigger picture" to control.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 01-24-2022 at 10:24 AM.
Regarding using JB4 with a Type-S, wouldn't it cause confusion in the car's logic? It seems the Type-S is retarding acceleration at certain times to preserve the AWD/transmission. But if the JB4 is pumping in higher values, wouldn't the ECU cancel it out? In the long term, it would cause damage if it has continuous quick peaks and drops. I believe a proper ECU upgrade would be "safer" long term since it has a better "bigger picture" to control.
You are 100 percent right. The ECU will fight to correct timing and the TCU to protect the gears. That's how these piggy backs worth and ECU tune is the way to go. now if you run a low map on JB4 it should be ok with +2 or 3 extra lbs. Only thing i see is you may need to reset the ecu once in a while.
Regarding using JB4 with a Type-S, wouldn't it cause confusion in the car's logic? It seems the Type-S is retarding acceleration at certain times to preserve the AWD/transmission. But if the JB4 is pumping in higher values, wouldn't the ECU cancel it out? In the long term, it would cause damage if it has continuous quick peaks and drops. I believe a proper ECU upgrade would be "safer" long term since it has a better "bigger picture" to control.
One thing you should consider & why you need the whole package including the phone link is make a custom map. The eventual "canned" Maps may have it, but you can selectively reduce boost in both first & second gear with the JB4. This would allow you to mimic the stock boost reduction to keep the 10 speed alive,
Have not seen the current versions but on my older systems you could select boost at a specific level every 500RPM. Having a brain fart as I only used custom maps but IIRC there was a option for the system to automatically reduce the 1/2 boost by a specific amount. Would think its been improved as even the brand that offends does some second gear launches or boost limitations when in LC on specific models from the factory.
Didnt think this was worthy of its own thread but here is a good explanation of why we arent seeing many mods yet for this car. Just throwing in an intake or downpipe (although the guy with the downpipe on youtube would prove otherwise, but all the legit companies are looking for carb compliance which his dp wouldnt be) isnt as easy as it used to be and you can connect almost every issue they are speaking of to the type S. We know it’s cutting torque in at least first gear, it has all the different drive modes and you know the ecu is going to be about as new age as possible since the engine is only 6 months old. Sounds like a piggy back or tune might be a necessity to see any gains from physical upgrades that would add power easily in old school applications.
Didnt think this was worthy of its own thread but here is a good explanation of why we arent seeing many mods yet for this car. Just throwing in an intake or downpipe (although the guy with the downpipe on youtube would prove otherwise, but all the legit companies are looking for carb compliance which his dp wouldnt be) isnt as easy as it used to be and you can connect almost every issue they are speaking of to the type S. We know it’s cutting torque in at least first gear, it has all the different drive modes and you know the ecu is going to be about as new age as possible since the engine is only 6 months old. Sounds like a piggy back or tune might be a necessity to see any gains from physical upgrades that would add power easily in old school applications.
Good video adds a lot that people usually don't understand or are not aware of. The guy with the downpipe, did it throw codes or a CEL light? If the codes are stored could be a problem at service/warranty time. At visual inspection it will fail the EPA test. I never ran a downpipe because the threw codes & CEL & would be a pain in the ass to take off & replace every year for state inspection. They use pits here to check the underside of the car. With the JB4 the CEL could be cleared & it appeared that the code was cleared but the code was a "you can't be sure its really cleared" item. Was good enough to get past the EPA test.
Regarding using JB4 with a Type-S, wouldn't it cause confusion in the car's logic? It seems the Type-S is retarding acceleration at certain times to preserve the AWD/transmission. But if the JB4 is pumping in higher values, wouldn't the ECU cancel it out? In the long term, it would cause damage if it has continuous quick peaks and drops. I believe a proper ECU upgrade would be "safer" long term since it has a better "bigger picture" to control.
The basic way the JB4 works is to prevent that. The ECU never see the "real PSI" because the JB4 is telling it a BS lower number. The unit sits between the sensors & the ECU. Gathers the sensor data changes it then lies to the ECU. Install is unplugging the wiring harness from the ECU & plugging it into the JB4. The JB4's wiring harness is then plugged into the ECU. When I was using them there were 3 harness & a Power wire to connect. Don't know what they look like now
I think it boils down to numbers. There are ... what, 2,000 TLX-S's sold so far in the US? How many are actually willing to modify? Will it be worth the R&D to bring aftermarket parts to market with those numbers? No. If the Type-S becomes more popular and the numbers sold grow exponentially, you'll see aftermarket parts start popping up.
I think it boils down to numbers. There are ... what, 2,000 TLX-S's sold so far in the US? How many are actually willing to modify? Will it be worth the R&D to bring aftermarket parts to market with those numbers? No. If the Type-S becomes more popular and the numbers sold grow exponentially, you'll see aftermarket parts start popping up.
Correct, Hondata mentioned that with regards to their Flashpro tune for the TLX. If they did develop a tune for the TLX, that would be the one to get based on their reputation in reliable power. While it may be tempting to get it if they ever develop one for the Type S, I’m more of a suspension/handling type of driver so I don’t care for more power. At least we have PS4S’s in our size for more grip :-D
Last edited by richii0207; 02-09-2022 at 07:08 PM.
Correct, Hondata mentioned that with regards to their Flashpro tune for the TLX. If they did develop a tune for the TLX, that would be the one to get based on their reputation in reliable power. While it may be tempting to get it if they ever develop one for the Type S, I’m more of a suspension/handling type of driver so I don’t care for more power. At least we have PS4S’s in our size for more grip :-D
Michelin is releasing a brand new PS5 to replace the PS4 and PS4S. Looking for even more grip very soon.
According to the thread, the TLX-S has a downpipe and chargepipe; I doubt the chargepipe makes any difference in power, maybe a better response since the stock rubber hose expands under pressure.
From the last video, the power looks consistent. Apparently I’m early testing they weren’t using the MAF harness and struggled to keep things smooth and dialed in; now that they have the MAF harness, results look better.
@F23A4 Off topic but just wanna say, that's a nice stable you've got there with the new TLX and MDX!
OTOH, that's a nice 25% gain for the 3.0T. While it's a SUV, with the MDX Type S having the same engine, hopefully there's more interest for the aftermarket to make mods for this engine. Ideally would love to see a Flashpro or Ktuner solution for it.
@F23A4 Off topic but just wanna say, that's a nice stable you've got there with the new TLX and MDX!
OTOH, that's a nice 25% gain for the 3.0T. While it's a SUV, with the MDX Type S having the same engine, hopefully there's more interest for the aftermarket to make mods for this engine. Ideally would love to see a Flashpro or Ktuner solution for it.
According to the thread, the TLX-S has a downpipe and chargepipe; I doubt the chargepipe makes any difference in power, maybe a better response since the stock rubber hose expands under pressure.
Agree the charge pipe is usually just a trouble spot. I broke two hard thermoplastic stock ones around 19PSI. Replaced the stock BMW units with an alloy version from BMS. Also if you are going to inject meth the aftermarket pipes can be ordered with bungs to mount the nozzles.
@F23A4 Off topic but just wanna say, that's a nice stable you've got there with the new TLX and MDX!
OTOH, that's a nice 25% gain for the 3.0T. While it's a SUV, with the MDX Type S having the same engine, hopefully there's more interest for the aftermarket to make mods for this engine. Ideally would love to see a Flashpro or Ktuner solution for it.
Would think they might want to set a SUV specific tune for torque rather than upper range horsepower. Based on potential sales the SUV market is a lot deeper than the sedan market.
Nice!! ...and that exhaust sounds so much better than my A-Spec!!
That's one of the main reasons the few extra thousand is worth it for me over the other trims. Just don't get the same feel and character with the turbo 4. Same reason why some would rather have a v8 than a 6.
That's one of the main reasons the few extra thousand is worth it for me over the other trims. Just don't get the same feel and character with the turbo 4. Same reason why some would rather have a v8 than a 6.
01-20-2022, 07:06 PM
This can be a 600 whp car with upgrades.. and with AWD . Very cool. Glad Acura is back in this scene.
and yeah we gotta meet up i will bring my brother and cousin. The brother just gave up his aspec and picked up the new 22 m240. He was so mad because he was promised a type S and put 500 to hold it and it never came. My cousin jumped on the German train and picking up his m340 today from his 2006 TL that just died last week. Only has 220k miles, got his money worth out of it. 
