mlody

Thank for sharing the link. I will reserve the judgment once I drive TLX Type-S, but outside of that car, the SH-AWD in TL, RDX, and MDX is front biased and not all that great in normal driving conditions. You almost have to drive your car as you stole it and under throttle to experience the rear-wheel bias and torque vectoring - something counter intuitive in everyday driving or cornering for many people.
Every so often, I have fun in our TL because I understand it. however, my wife on the other hand, will never accelerate in a corner, so for her, our TL drives like Accord, and she prefers the handling of Q50 due to the natural rear-wheel bias that you don't have to enforce.
I would rather have AWD with permanent RWD bias like an Audi or BMW, over SH-AWD, but I am curious to experience what Type-S offers. On the other hand if Acura starts making SH-AWD RWD bias that would change the game for sure in their favor.

ELIN

My only prior experience with SH-AWD was the 2018 MDX and I've never had a bad experience with it.

I've had Quattro and 4MATIC in the past as well and I honestly can't say it made a difference since I don't do a lot of spirited driving.

fiatlux

It's funny, there are poster here who adamantly claim the SH-AWD system is rear-biased because:
1) It can send more power to the rear when the situation demands, even though it doesn't do so at steady state
2) Cuz Acura marketing materials calls it rear-biased

None of which actually makes it true, though. I agree with your assessment; unless you really give it the beans through the corners to break traction and force the system to send more power rearwards, dynamically it's no different from a regular FWD car.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think one of the issues is its counter-intuitive to the average USA driver. The road to my house has a lot of turns & elevation changes. 9.9 out of 10 drivers that I am behind, regardless of car make, are on the brakes IN every turn & MOST downhill sections. A down hill section with a curve in it is pure panic time for them.

Neoforever

Idk why no one is mentioning Genesis G70. I learned about it recently and saw reviews. It seems that for the MSRP of 2021 TLX SH-AWD Advance, you can
1) Get a better performing car (maybe like what the Type-S will be from what we know so far)
OR
2) Get a nicer car with more features.

Anyone has personal experience comparing the two?

KeithL

G70 is on my short list. Did a test drive a while back of Twin Turbo Sport. My biggest eat issue is it seems a little tight inside. I wanted AWD, it in GA I have a better chance or finding a unicorn. They offered me great money for my 19 TLX ASPEC with 13K miles and still took a boat load off the G70.

Problem is also these dealers are mornings, the best car on the lot seems to always be in use by the sales manager so it has miles on it. They get a rare config then use it themselves.

ELIN

Adding Sport package to the G70 3.3T brings the features closer to the Advance and increases the MSRP to $54,000+, which many feel will be the ballpark of the Type S price.
This G70 Sport would probably be a better buy when compared to the Type S that will be missing many of the Advance trim's features. Fuel economy is a weak point for Genesis as the 3.3T only manages 17/25/20 for city/hwy/combined. I think the Type S should do better than that!

Flapjackura

Strongly considered a G70. MPG/range numbers seemed notably weak and I have read the dealership experiences are pretty bad. Was coming from Lexus so felt like it would be a significant step-down. Ultimately, I also just think the '21 TLX is a better looking car by a slim margin.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I really like the refresh G70 and Stinger. Here's a video of the G70

ELIN

Nice video and sharp looking car! Reviewer didn't mention it but the trunk on the G70 is 3 ft3 smaller than the TLX at 10.5 ft3. The rims on that G70 look just as uninspired as on the TLX. A stopping distance of 123+ ft is quite long no, especially on Brembro's? Might have something to do with the rain...

If trunk space is not high priority and the fuel econ on the Type S is comparable, the 3.3T is a clear winner since the Type S will lose much of the Advance's options. I'm expecting pricing to be similar on both cars.

Neoforever

As for the options, I think putting Sport package on exceeds TLX2 Advance because of features like turn cameras, self open/close trunk, rear heated seats, etc.
I think the one under might be more comparable (prestige or elite or something?)

ELIN

Advance has rear heated seats and 360 camera, but not the power trunk.

bilirubin

Thanks for the link. I'm surprised the G70 3.3TT wasn't as quick as I expected, 0-60 mph in 5.0 sec is pretty slow given the power-to-weight ratio. I would've guessed at least the mid-to-high 4's, if not faster.

Carnage719

I saw this on a news feed and watched it. I'm impressed, except for MPG, with the upgrades. The reviewer was 6'2" and still had legroom vs. how tight the previous model is.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Anytime! As for the 0-60, on dry payment it nails 4.5-4.7 (various sites). In the video I posted the rain did hurt the performance but it's still a quick & fun sedan with an incredible design.

According to Genesis website for a 2021 (not the one shown in the video) the Prestige package (USA) offers

• Includes 3.3T Standard plus:
• Power trunk
• Microfiber suede headliner
• Heated rear seats
• Nappa leather seating surfaces with luxury quilting
• Surround View Monitor
• Heads-up Display

For reference, the 3.3T AWD with Prestige package is 52K without any discounts. The GT2 stinger have sold for way less than MSRP and it's easily proven by searching for 2020-21 brand new GT / GT2 models.
One example without looking for the best deal.

2021 Kia Stinger GT Limited AWD - $37,490

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/new/searchresults.action?zip=01057&showNegotiable=true &sourceContext=untrackedExternal_false_0&distance= 200&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=c30938&e ndYear=2021&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=c 29209&startYear=2019#listing=282117446

I've always admired Hyundai and KIA. The biggest single thing that hurts them the most, is the badge and perhaps some pride.. If you're in the market and have $40-45K to spend and want all options, performance, fuel economy, I don't know why it's not on the table for discussion.

From some quick research, the braking distance does vary but braking distances were long on both wet and dry pavement. The G70 is a small sedan but IMO it's design profile is correct for it's interior and trunk space.

leomio85

I'll give it more time, but the new look of the G70 really isn't doing it for me. The lights are just too small that it throws off the aesthetic proportions of the car IMO. Then again, the M3/M4 grilles are growing on me too, so maybe I've just gone mental ...

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I hated the M3/M4 grilles but as more time has passed, it's grown on me. The loaner BMW gave me is a 2021 4 series coupe. The front plate kills the grille IMO. I've seen another 2021 M440i in my town, pearl white with the shadow-line package and it looks way better. If I had the funds, I would rock an isle of man green M3.

Carnage719

OMG! Are you guys talking about the new, elongated grille design for BMW? I find it hideous, like buck teeth.

leomio85

Generally, I prefer running no front plate on cars, but the M3/M4 seems to look way better with a front plate, albeit, the only ones I've seen have been Euro plates. With US plates, I'm not 100% sure ... I'll have to see it and then pass judgment. And 100% agree that that Isle of Man Green is a stunning color. It would be a a tough decision between that, white and that ///M silver that has a bluish tint that I love. All just a pipe dream until maybe 10+ yrs down the road.

Yep, I was repulsed by it at first too. Then I thought it wasn't so bad. Then I went back to hating it. Now, I'm back to thinking it looks decent.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Here is the loaner BMW gave me vs the M440i in town.

Rumors are, there's already an aftermarket bumper w/grille being produced which will look similar to the 8 series https://www.thedrive.com/news/37132/...y-in-the-works

ELIN

The normal grill looks like braces when a front plate is applied.

The replacement bumper makes the car look closer to the i3, which I had predicted would look like the pigs from Angry Birds if the car was green!

Neoforever

Any idea on G70's AWD vs SH-AWD in common driving scenarios?
I know it's not active torque vectoring. But is it noticably worse in everyday driving?

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I don't know every single detail and specifications for each specific setup but do know a lot about the SH-AWD since I worked for Acura. Under normal daily use, you shouldn't notice any difference between the two. When it comes to the G70 with the 3.3T, the vehicle can send 100% TQ to the rear wheels under certain conditions and it's mainly rwd-bias. The G70 (from my understanding) shares it's entire drive-terrain and suspension setup as the stinger. If you seen enough stinger reviews, it's designed more for the performance enthusiast. In this review, savagegeese does explain how the system works as he does a detailed walk around under the vehicle. (8:21 mark). It's best to test drive the genesis and the TLX to see what works best for you. Here's an article G70 vs 1st gen A-spec TLX https://www.torquenews.com/1083/2020...hich-your-pick

mec30

Unless your wife is routinely breaking traction or approaching the cornering limit of the tires, AWD vs RWD is not going to make a difference in perceived handing. At the kind of everyday speeds you're talking about, weight distribution, steering feel, suspension geometry, ect are all going to be much more felt than the driven wheels.

Rear-biased AWD alone doesn't result in the kind of performance advantages you're expecting. Most rear-biased AWD cars understeer off throttle (most RWD cars understeer off throttle). An STI with its LSD is notorious for it. Comparing the feel of a TLX vs a rear-biased STI, the TLX has much more neutral cornering than the STI. Power on oversteer is easier to induce in a TLX. Moving to a system like xDrive isn't a solution either. The problem with xDrive is that whenever the system intervenes, it does so to increase understeer. The computer is making educated guesses about the traction limit of the front tires and constantly engaging the front clutch pack as a precaution. The opposite is true with a FWD-biased torque vectoring system. The system is being invoked to introduce oversteer. The priority is performance first, traction second.

mec30

Stopping distance is a tire stat. Brake feel and fade is a brake quality metric.

ELIN

Good to know. My current TLX tires have been universally panned but I have no incentive to change them out on a lease.

I think my mid-life crisis will include a fancy car with a set of summer tires as well as winter tires. I'm not quite there yet...

Neoforever

Idk why you make that assumption. And to clarify, it's me who does regularly break traction on turns with my 1G TLX SH-AWD. Yes, I drive spirited. Also, I'm on the shitty LS2 tires.

Anyway, I guess I meant to ask if hard/powered cornering on streets would be noticably worse in G70's AWD than TLX's.

BEAR-AvHistory

Not an absolute but some place to start. Note the G70 has better tires which are some of the difference.

C&D
G70
Michelin Pilot Sport 4, Size F: 225/40R-19 (93Y) Extra Load R: 255/35R-19 (96Y) Extra Load
Braking, 70–0 mph: 160 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.92 g

C&D
TLX AWD
Michelin Primacy A/S, 255/40R-19 96W M+S
Braking, 70–0 mph: 177 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.87 g

mec30

I didn't make that assumption. That's what the poster wrote: "my wife on the other hand, will never accelerate in a corner, so for her, our TL drives like Accord."

The G70 uses the same Magna Actimax AWD system as the BMWs with xDrive. It should feel more RWD but there is no torque vectoring. The RWD only models will feel more sporty. The AWD is only a traction assist, not a performance enhancer. You'd have to drive them back to back to find out which passes the feel test.

ELIN

What type of situations would you miss torque vectoring?

mec30

Hmm . . . for me torque vectoring is nice in low traction. You still get a little steering authority even if the front wheels have little to no traction. It's fun on on-ramps or any other long radius turn where you have partial throttle input. I've never taken the TLX on a track (too fat and heavy) but I imagine it would be fun to use the throttle to clean up a racing line (I can't do that in a Civic SI or STI). U-turns with traction control off are also fun.

ELIN

So handier in the rain and/or snow?

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Wow, I didn't know that! Thank you! I'll have to do more research on each AWD system.

Tony Pac

Once again, SG nailed it. Watch the G80 review. He is super honest and praises the car but at the same time he confirms that it lacks identity and the resale value is bad.

Or now people will say SG is not reliable as he praised the new TLX 🤣

Honda430

Yes, that is odd how some folks have gone from “just wait for the SG review” to “he’s just an Acura fanboy” after he praised the car. 😂

ELIN

Very fair review. I'm glad I didn't wait for the G80 as the "fat suit" comment would not sit well with me.

fiatlux

Who said that? I haven’t seen any comments like that...

BEAR-AvHistory

Nothing unusual there. Test groups, magazines, YouTubers are gods until their review does not conform to your world view. That's why there are so many different brands, nameplates & models of cars available. Different people like different things. Its also outside of the raw numbers why I take them as a grain of salt. Or as the sergeant said "Lighten up, Frances".

Tony Pac

100%!

Everyone was waiting for his review and once the review is out, I barely saw any comments or feedback.

All of a sudden, it looks like he isn’t the cool kid anymore among Acurazine members 🤣

That said, even AoA second review is awesome. He definitely provided some Great feedback (positive and negative) but he was honest and on point.

To conclude, as I always say, don’t listen to me or to some members who are here to just point the negatives. Go test drive and feel the car before writing a check of $50K. Of course watch some review and learn a few things beforehand.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Maybe I haven't noticed it because i've taken a back seat to this part of Acurazine, but who are they? We all have our own opinions, likes and dislikes just as the automotive journalist. I enjoy SG reviews as well as others. Even if I don't agree with their reviews (because it's simply their opinion) I respect it and take it for what it's worth. I think that's the lost translation here and that notorious TLX 2nd gen FB Group. A lot of bias for the Acura brand, which is fine, but the childish and ignorant comments because not everyone's views are the same is over played and done with. There's a fine line between true enthusiast and loyalist (or fans of a particular brand) that able to have an adult conversation about anything automotive related and agree to disagree in a respectful manner. It seems there are many certain individuals that like to stir the pot (on both sides of the fence) and it's worse on that FB page. Can't really consider yourself a huge fan of Acura while bashing fellow Acura loyalist that they are discussing other models like the MDX. Most of these conversations seem to become antagonistic instead of contributing to.. Just my 2 cents from through observation.