9AT Hard Shift 1-2 and 2-3
08-12-2016, 11:36 PM
#2161
Summer is Coming
I am happy to all of the ZF and DCT owners who are finally getting an improved product in the latest releases and replacements. Acura in my opinion has done a lot to reduce mine and other longtime Acura owners confidence in the company by how they denied and did not support early adopters....but at least they seem to be on the right path.
On Weds I stopped into my local dealer to pick up some parts for my TL. As I walked to the parts window my long time service advisor spotted me and followed me into the parts dept. After some catching up I asked him if Acura had the ZF figured out yet...and to my surprise he said "no...still a mess". I then asked about the DCT and he said...."same thing". Hopefully he was only talking about software updates on first year cars, but I was very surprised that he didn't hesitate and that he did not try to convince me of the improvements in the 2016 and 2017 TLX. And he knows that I want to buy a new car!
I can only hope that the refresh brings some confidence back to me and Acura. Just provide an optional MT or hell....even a traditional 6 speed auto....then I would probably buy one. Not sure how I feel about new 10 speed....should we be hoping for that or do we hope that the ZF is the long term solution for Acura?
On Weds I stopped into my local dealer to pick up some parts for my TL. As I walked to the parts window my long time service advisor spotted me and followed me into the parts dept. After some catching up I asked him if Acura had the ZF figured out yet...and to my surprise he said "no...still a mess". I then asked about the DCT and he said...."same thing". Hopefully he was only talking about software updates on first year cars, but I was very surprised that he didn't hesitate and that he did not try to convince me of the improvements in the 2016 and 2017 TLX. And he knows that I want to buy a new car!
I can only hope that the refresh brings some confidence back to me and Acura. Just provide an optional MT or hell....even a traditional 6 speed auto....then I would probably buy one. Not sure how I feel about new 10 speed....should we be hoping for that or do we hope that the ZF is the long term solution for Acura?
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quantum7 (08-14-2016)
08-13-2016, 02:41 PM
#2162
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
I guess I just find it curious that with the constant stream of bad press and reviews over the ZF 9-speed they'd totally ignore the 10-speed they've developed as a potential fix. "We've developed this amazing new transmission and we're going to put it in our mini-van". Seems odd they would ignore the one car that's their current king of bad press.
08-13-2016, 05:25 PM
#2163
Well I'm gonna go in for the latest update on Monday (I've scheduled an appointment). I have an August build car, but I still get that jerky 2-3 shift occasionally, and it's really apparent in low speed traffic jams.
08-14-2016, 08:55 AM
#2164
thats why I'm leaving after my lease is up, my 4g TL was better to me. even my salesperson said he should of never gave his up. I'm looking at the 340 next or An S4. My cousin has the 328 and yup it blows away the TLX by far. As of now its a big improvement since I brought it home
08-15-2016, 07:14 AM
#2165
Advanced
Source? Links?
I guess I just find it curious that with the constant stream of bad press and reviews over the ZF 9-speed they'd totally ignore the 10-speed they've developed as a potential fix. "We've developed this amazing new transmission and we're going to put it in our mini-van". Seems odd they would ignore the one car that's their current king of bad press.
I guess I just find it curious that with the constant stream of bad press and reviews over the ZF 9-speed they'd totally ignore the 10-speed they've developed as a potential fix. "We've developed this amazing new transmission and we're going to put it in our mini-van". Seems odd they would ignore the one car that's their current king of bad press.
08-15-2016, 09:30 AM
#2166
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
Last edited by 1Louder; 08-15-2016 at 09:34 AM.
08-15-2016, 01:35 PM
#2167
Advanced
Wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just trying to understand. What is MMC BTW?
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
08-15-2016, 04:00 PM
#2168
Wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just trying to understand. What is MMC BTW?
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
08-15-2016, 06:52 PM
#2169
Suzuka Master
Wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just trying to understand. What is MMC BTW?
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
I'm not sure what Acura and ZF consider "issues". If it's the bad 1-2 and 2-3 shift and lag in downshift then yes they might consider that ironed out now. But the 9-speed (at least my replacement transmission) still behaves in goofy and undesirable ways. The setup is just not right for the TLX. I'd still consider it a glaring weakness and will continue to be something critics point out over and over again. I guess that's why I'm surprised Acura is going to stay with it. The ZF is bad even when operating "correctly".
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1Louder (08-15-2016)
08-15-2016, 07:16 PM
#2170
i agree the worst annoying problems are probably under control, but the ZF is still junk. Worst tranny in any car I have owned or driven, laggy gets confused easily, unpredictable shifts on occasion. I get that high gear trannys are complex, but t this thing is not ready for prime time. The 8 speed ZF in my Audi was flawless, never a laggy, missed or hunting shift. Even my Infiniti 7 speed would only hunt for a head under rare infrequent circumstances, but this 9 speed every day reminds me how bad it is. 2 years left on this lease and counting....
08-15-2016, 07:50 PM
#2171
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
I'd agree, and I think that manifests itself in some strange behavior. I think the transmission tries to be too smart, and it winds up making slow decisions or just wrong decisions. Acceleration can be strangely disjointed (surge, pause, surge). The transmission often seems at a loss of what gear it wants to be in. Downshifts when passing seem better acceleration seems to strangely fall off. Every now and again I'll get a good "clunk" when going into gear. It's just not what anyone spending this kind of money should expect or deserve.
08-15-2016, 10:49 PM
#2172
What other issues?
08-16-2016, 08:44 AM
#2173
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
^ Bottom part of post 2171. That's what I observe anyway.
08-16-2016, 09:02 AM
#2174
I really haven't had those issues.
Only thing I still see occasionally is the dog clutch delay on passing downshifts, where I hit the accelerator and there is a delay of a half a second or so before the lower gear is engaged.
I thought there was newer software (I already have 16-012 applied) now released to address those downshift issues. Maybe I'm incorrect. Either way, delays based on dog clutch shifts seem inescapable, but it really hasn't been a huge issue for me, and if you know about it, you can adjust your driving to accommodate it.
For me, the flawless acceleration and upshifts, and flawless downshifts (at least in Econ, Normal, and Sport which are all I use) are what I lacked before replacement. The 33 mpg highway mileage is an acceptable tradeoff to me for a car with sub-6 second 0-60 times with very quiet and smooth cruise at 80mph.
Could an 8 speed get close? Probably.
Only thing I still see occasionally is the dog clutch delay on passing downshifts, where I hit the accelerator and there is a delay of a half a second or so before the lower gear is engaged.
I thought there was newer software (I already have 16-012 applied) now released to address those downshift issues. Maybe I'm incorrect. Either way, delays based on dog clutch shifts seem inescapable, but it really hasn't been a huge issue for me, and if you know about it, you can adjust your driving to accommodate it.
For me, the flawless acceleration and upshifts, and flawless downshifts (at least in Econ, Normal, and Sport which are all I use) are what I lacked before replacement. The 33 mpg highway mileage is an acceptable tradeoff to me for a car with sub-6 second 0-60 times with very quiet and smooth cruise at 80mph.
Could an 8 speed get close? Probably.
Last edited by neil0311; 08-16-2016 at 09:04 AM.
08-18-2016, 05:15 PM
#2176
So my August 2015 car is outside of the update range for the transmission software. I had 15-040 done back in March I think and 16-012 doesn't apply for my vehicle. I looked at the TSB with the service manager, together. I probably have the revised transmission in my car. I still have some small niggles, like the transmission being a bit jerky in very low speed/crawling traffic. It's like it cannot decide what gear to be in at very low speeds and wants to get to a higher gear ASAP. But beyond that though, no hard shifts or anything like that. Does anyone here with the new transmission have similar issues?
08-18-2016, 06:49 PM
#2177
So my August 2015 car is outside of the update range for the transmission software. I had 15-040 done back in March I think and 16-012 doesn't apply for my vehicle. I looked at the TSB with the service manager, together. I probably have the revised transmission in my car. I still have some small niggles, like the transmission being a bit jerky in very low speed/crawling traffic. It's like it cannot decide what gear to be in at very low speeds and wants to get to a higher gear ASAP. But beyond that though, no hard shifts or anything like that. Does anyone here with the new transmission have similar issues?
08-18-2016, 08:11 PM
#2178
I'll need to check on 16-012. The manager looked up my VIN in their system and it doesn't show up for the updates...but I'll keep an eye on the transmission and go back again if gets crazy. EDIT: I looked at 16-012 again and it looks like it was initially issued in February of this year. I remember going in for an update at the end of March. I think I might be confusing the two TSB and I probably did have 16-012 applied.
Last edited by CaliAtenza; 08-18-2016 at 08:16 PM.
08-18-2016, 09:16 PM
#2179
I'll need to check on 16-012. The manager looked up my VIN in their system and it doesn't show up for the updates...but I'll keep an eye on the transmission and go back again if gets crazy. EDIT: I looked at 16-012 again and it looks like it was initially issued in February of this year. I remember going in for an update at the end of March. I think I might be confusing the two TSB and I probably did have 16-012 applied.
08-19-2016, 07:43 AM
#2181
Update to my Transmission issue: Hard Shifting & False Neutrals 2015 CPO FWD TLX Advanced with 5000 Miles that I purchased 4 weeks ago.
The car has now been in the shop 50% of the time that I have owned it. I have officially put more miles on the loaner more than my new car... Yesterday I called the dealer and this is what they said:
"Honda has determined that there is an internal defect in the transmission. Honda has approved a new transmission to be installed, will take about a week."
So I have a car that I haven't even put 1000 miles on and that now needs a new transmission?? I'm beyond pissed, the dealer has been terrible to deal with, they don't call me when they say they would, I have to drive up there and then people run and avoid me, they hide in their offices... I'm so done with Acura over this. (Have owned 3 Acuras, I also have purchased 10 cars over the past 10 years and have never had a problem)
I don't trust this car one bit and I wouldn't have purchased a car that needs a new transmission or just had a new transmission installed. The only thing they can do for me at this point is buy it back from me, I'm done. (They offered to buy it back at a $5000 loss to me, what a scam!)
The car has now been in the shop 50% of the time that I have owned it. I have officially put more miles on the loaner more than my new car... Yesterday I called the dealer and this is what they said:
"Honda has determined that there is an internal defect in the transmission. Honda has approved a new transmission to be installed, will take about a week."
So I have a car that I haven't even put 1000 miles on and that now needs a new transmission?? I'm beyond pissed, the dealer has been terrible to deal with, they don't call me when they say they would, I have to drive up there and then people run and avoid me, they hide in their offices... I'm so done with Acura over this. (Have owned 3 Acuras, I also have purchased 10 cars over the past 10 years and have never had a problem)
I don't trust this car one bit and I wouldn't have purchased a car that needs a new transmission or just had a new transmission installed. The only thing they can do for me at this point is buy it back from me, I'm done. (They offered to buy it back at a $5000 loss to me, what a scam!)
Last edited by samsausage; 08-19-2016 at 07:46 AM.
08-19-2016, 10:48 AM
#2182
Not sure when you brought your car in but the initial vin ranges stated in 15-040 between 2wd and awd were interchanged, and has been fixed recently. Id check again with the latest version of 15-040
08-19-2016, 11:24 AM
#2183
I bought my car in September 2015. It's an August 2015 build car. The service manager pulled up 15-040 on his computer through their software and he checked my VIN. It's outside the range.
08-19-2016, 01:02 PM
#2184
My car is an oct 2015 build and its included. Pretty sure yours should be too.
08-19-2016, 08:33 PM
#2185
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-040.PDF
08-21-2016, 06:19 PM
#2186
I had the update doe today. So far the transmission is shifting well. I have 230 miles on the update. Hope it sticks but doesn't sound like it will. I got a 16 TLX V6 base as a loaner while they programmed my car. The 16 shifts really well. Has a small lag when down shifting at 60 mph but not as bad as my transmission. Seems to be a second or so quicker when shifting from 9 to 4. On a side note I had complained about the VCM vibration and they told me there was nothing that could be done at this time. Well my vibration is exactly the same as the 2016 loaner car I had. I guess it is the way it is. Its more annoying than anything. I took my car to Zimbrick Acura in Madison WI. I asked the service advisor how many transmissions they have replaced and he told me 0. I don't know if I believe him or maybe he hasn't dealt with any but for the number of TLX's they sell I would think they would have replaced at least one. He tried to play it off that there is nothing wrong with the transmission. It is just always learning. Whatever. I did point out to him that the 2016 shifted perfect from 1-2 and 2-3. He did tell me that after driving the 500 miles and I still have problems to come back and they will look into a replacement. He was aware of the revised TSB.
Just placed a dealer-trade based order for a 2016 TLX Advance to replace my 113K 2009 TSX, to hopefully be delivered next week. The shift delays, particularly 5-4 downshift, are endemic to the design, but after four test drives, I decided that I would rather live with that than downgrade to a 2017 Ford Fusion or pay more for a 2017 Audi A4 (both are very fine cars, and have the full complement of safety technology I decided were musts, but they just weren't for me). The dealer was very competitive on price, as well, and the sales staff are very nice to work with. (On the other hand, the local Lexus dealer folks, as a generalization, seem to be pretty arrogant, and not helpful at all).
08-22-2016, 10:06 AM
#2187
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Update to my Transmission issue: Hard Shifting & False Neutrals 2015 CPO FWD TLX Advanced with 5000 Miles that I purchased 4 weeks ago.
The car has now been in the shop 50% of the time that I have owned it. I have officially put more miles on the loaner more than my new car... Yesterday I called the dealer and this is what they said:
"Honda has determined that there is an internal defect in the transmission. Honda has approved a new transmission to be installed, will take about a week."
So I have a car that I haven't even put 1000 miles on and that now needs a new transmission?? I'm beyond pissed, the dealer has been terrible to deal with, they don't call me when they say they would, I have to drive up there and then people run and avoid me, they hide in their offices... I'm so done with Acura over this. (Have owned 3 Acuras, I also have purchased 10 cars over the past 10 years and have never had a problem)
I don't trust this car one bit and I wouldn't have purchased a car that needs a new transmission or just had a new transmission installed. The only thing they can do for me at this point is buy it back from me, I'm done. (They offered to buy it back at a $5000 loss to me, what a scam!)
The car has now been in the shop 50% of the time that I have owned it. I have officially put more miles on the loaner more than my new car... Yesterday I called the dealer and this is what they said:
"Honda has determined that there is an internal defect in the transmission. Honda has approved a new transmission to be installed, will take about a week."
So I have a car that I haven't even put 1000 miles on and that now needs a new transmission?? I'm beyond pissed, the dealer has been terrible to deal with, they don't call me when they say they would, I have to drive up there and then people run and avoid me, they hide in their offices... I'm so done with Acura over this. (Have owned 3 Acuras, I also have purchased 10 cars over the past 10 years and have never had a problem)
I don't trust this car one bit and I wouldn't have purchased a car that needs a new transmission or just had a new transmission installed. The only thing they can do for me at this point is buy it back from me, I'm done. (They offered to buy it back at a $5000 loss to me, what a scam!)
08-22-2016, 03:03 PM
#2188
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Update to my Transmission issue: Hard Shifting & False Neutrals 2015 CPO FWD TLX Advanced with 5000 Miles that I purchased 4 weeks ago.
The car has now been in the shop 50% of the time that I have owned it. I have officially put more miles on the loaner more than my new car... Yesterday I called the dealer and this is what they said:
"Honda has determined that there is an internal defect in the transmission. Honda has approved a new transmission to be installed, will take about a week."
So I have a car that I haven't even put 1000 miles on and that now needs a new transmission?? I'm beyond pissed, the dealer has been terrible to deal with, they don't call me when they say they would, I have to drive up there and then people run and avoid me, they hide in their offices... I'm so done with Acura over this. (Have owned 3 Acuras, I also have purchased 10 cars over the past 10 years and have never had a problem)
I don't trust this car one bit and I wouldn't have purchased a car that needs a new transmission or just had a new transmission installed. The only thing they can do for me at this point is buy it back from me, I'm done. (They offered to buy it back at a $5000 loss to me, what a scam!)
The car has now been in the shop 50% of the time that I have owned it. I have officially put more miles on the loaner more than my new car... Yesterday I called the dealer and this is what they said:
"Honda has determined that there is an internal defect in the transmission. Honda has approved a new transmission to be installed, will take about a week."
So I have a car that I haven't even put 1000 miles on and that now needs a new transmission?? I'm beyond pissed, the dealer has been terrible to deal with, they don't call me when they say they would, I have to drive up there and then people run and avoid me, they hide in their offices... I'm so done with Acura over this. (Have owned 3 Acuras, I also have purchased 10 cars over the past 10 years and have never had a problem)
I don't trust this car one bit and I wouldn't have purchased a car that needs a new transmission or just had a new transmission installed. The only thing they can do for me at this point is buy it back from me, I'm done. (They offered to buy it back at a $5000 loss to me, what a scam!)
Acura just recently got their act together and now have policies and procedures in place to replace bad 2015 transmissions. Since you got a used 2015, it's highly unlikely that previous owner was able to get anything done so you got stuck dealing with the issue. BTW, my TCM failed about 4000 miles into owning mine - car threw itself into park as I was backing out of the driveway. So I feel you pain.
But all that said, most of these 2015's need a transmission replacement anyway so don't feel like you've been singled out. Almost everyone in this thread has had their transmission replaced, myself included. It is, regrettably, par for the course for early build 2015's. But the new transmissions are OK - realize having your car out and dealing with a bad dealership is frustrating, but it will get better.
08-22-2016, 07:45 PM
#2189
They updated the VIN numbers in the latest revision. In the erroneous versions of that TSB, they had the SH-AWD and V6 TLX VIN numbers swapped from what I recall. Here's the latest that I know of :
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-040.PDF
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-040.PDF
08-22-2016, 07:49 PM
#2190
You would think so, unless it's not a VIN number problem and just that somehow your car is excluded. Why, I have no idea. I may have missed it, and you may have addressed this, but can you take it to another dealer and ask them?
08-23-2016, 12:49 PM
#2191
Instructor
It is quite possible that another TSB has been applied and that "swept in" the software update that TSB 15-040 calls out. I know that TSB 15-034 does that for which was a letter sent out advising customers bring their vehicles in. (Not a recall, a rose by any other name.....) Might be others as well. Anyway, whenever a TSB is applied that involves software, the software is brought up to the most current level for your vehicle.
Last edited by sbillard; 08-23-2016 at 12:56 PM.
08-23-2016, 12:59 PM
#2192
I'm gonna be in Arizona next month, so yeah i'll take it to a dealer out there and see if anything comes up.
08-23-2016, 07:37 PM
#2193
Take a printout of the TSB with you and if you're sure your VIN falls in the range, ask them why it isn't applicable since it falls in the range. There may be additional software checks or something.
08-23-2016, 08:44 PM
#2194
I noticed that, but decided it was fine - it reminds me a bit of watching my brother drive a manual, and during a shift waiting for the gears to sync before engaging the destination gear. The next gear engaged quickly enough that the car didn't seem to slow down - less than 1/2 second. I recall the BMW 328i (it was that or a Mercedes C300 - but I'm pretty sure it was the "bimmer") I drove on a test drive doing something quite similar. Certainly different than the 5 speed in my 2009 TSX, of course, where shifts are lightning fast, up or down.
08-25-2016, 08:18 PM
#2195
Got the new 9AT!
Just a short update, I got my TLX back today with the new transmission in it. Here are my observations so far:
- Bump from 2-3 is gone
- Downshifts are MUCH faster, especially in 90 degree turns. With SHAWD you need to power through corners to get the rear wheels to drive you, and with the old 9AT, it took so long to downshift you were around the corner and straight before any power went to the rear wheels. With the new 9AT, the downshift is immediate and woom! Around the corner we go.
- Cruising at low speeds seems to be at lower RPM, the sound of the engine is significantly lower in pitch.
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a35tl (08-27-2016)
08-25-2016, 08:47 PM
#2196
I almost forgot: part number is 06200-5L9-A71RM
08-26-2016, 09:08 AM
#2197
Intermediate
Thank you for the update. Our 15' Advance is currently in for the transmission swap as we speak (crosses fingers).
This has been a LONG time coming. One question for those with the new setup; any surging on downhill runs still?
This has been a LONG time coming. One question for those with the new setup; any surging on downhill runs still?
08-26-2016, 10:53 AM
#2198
blah blah blah
Have over 1200 miles and the transmission still running good, no bumps. There's still a little surging on downhills and stop and go traffic but a lot better then before.
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technoarch (08-26-2016)
08-26-2016, 03:04 PM
#2199
I haven't read anyone else reporting TSB-040 worked for them. I had TSB-040 applied to my early 15 TLX V6 PAWS, and I'm happy to report that it's running very well. I'm still not past the 500 mi re-learn, but I don't see replacing the tranny could be significantly better. It's not smooth as silk as say, an MDX, but it's good enough that I don't really have any complaints. There's still a slight hesitation between 2-3 under infrequent circumstances, but nothing to be alarmed about.
So to those that have said the TSB-040 doesn't/didn't work, it worked for me.
So to those that have said the TSB-040 doesn't/didn't work, it worked for me.
08-26-2016, 05:32 PM
#2200
Intermediate
I haven't read anyone else reporting TSB-040 worked for them. I had TSB-040 applied to my early 15 TLX V6 PAWS, and I'm happy to report that it's running very well. I'm still not past the 500 mi re-learn, but I don't see replacing the tranny could be significantly better. It's not smooth as silk as say, an MDX, but it's good enough that I don't really have any complaints. There's still a slight hesitation between 2-3 under infrequent circumstances, but nothing to be alarmed about.
So to those that have said the TSB-040 doesn't/didn't work, it worked for me.
So to those that have said the TSB-040 doesn't/didn't work, it worked for me.
After the update the 2-3 shift seemed to be delayed and very slow on light throttle. Very annoying to me and I would have almost preferred a harder shift that was quicker. My guess is it was their way to stop the bump. Did anyone else notice this slowed shifting after the update?