9AT Hard Shift 1-2 and 2-3
09-21-2015, 04:09 PM
#482
If you don't believe a Google search of the problem then I doubt that you will believe a video. Will a single video really convince you?
Last edited by quantum7; 09-21-2015 at 04:15 PM.
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ATXTLX (09-21-2015)
09-21-2015, 04:17 PM
#483
09-21-2015, 04:20 PM
#484
A single video could easily show the problem, if it's really so serious.
I've test driven 7 different tlxes and never experienced any issue, and I tried carefully in the last few after reading posts here. With that said, I don't have expectations it should shift like Acuras of the past and my last cars have all been rental, where I adjust to however the cars transmission works.
I've test driven 7 different tlxes and never experienced any issue, and I tried carefully in the last few after reading posts here. With that said, I don't have expectations it should shift like Acuras of the past and my last cars have all been rental, where I adjust to however the cars transmission works.
09-21-2015, 04:22 PM
#485
Suzuka Master
The fact that I've had many contacts with ACR, recorded and acknowledged by my dealership as well as contact with an attorney is plenty.
Or.. is this a conspiracy brought about by Acura's competition.. Do I, in fact, actually own a Q50S AWD and feel the need to rant about a made-up issue on here? Could it be?
(no disrespect actual Q50S owners intended at all. You do have a great car though I enjoy ruffling your feathers at times
)
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quantum7 (09-21-2015)
09-21-2015, 04:41 PM
#486
I personally find your implication insulting that I don't know what a dog clutch should behave like...I read the article and watch Alex long ago. I have driven at least 10 different TLX models for several long test drives, including loaners for multiple days. Some were very smooth and totally what I would expect from Acura. Some however were very consistent with what many current TLX owners have reported as unacceptable.
To disregard all of the complaints of the TLX ZF 9 speed since you personally have never experienced a problem is narrow-minded.
btw, Acura has issued TSBs addressing this acknowledged problem......only when they can't finally get a solution do they call it "normal"
Last edited by quantum7; 09-21-2015 at 04:51 PM.
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2011TL (09-21-2015)
09-21-2015, 05:41 PM
#487
Burning Brakes
A single video could easily show the problem, if it's really so serious.
I've test driven 7 different tlxes and never experienced any issue, and I tried carefully in the last few after reading posts here. With that said, I don't have expectations it should shift like Acuras of the past and my last cars have all been rental, where I adjust to however the cars transmission works.
I've test driven 7 different tlxes and never experienced any issue, and I tried carefully in the last few after reading posts here. With that said, I don't have expectations it should shift like Acuras of the past and my last cars have all been rental, where I adjust to however the cars transmission works.
09-21-2015, 05:56 PM
#489
I have also driven about 8 different loaner TLXs. They all drove differently. Two were pretty darn near perfect. Out of all, unfortunately the one I own is the worst.
09-21-2015, 07:26 PM
#490
Given the amount of posts on this in here, I'd expect someone to have made at least one video, especially given that the goal was to raise attention from Acura.
If a video clearly showed the issue, it could easily spread onto many auto sites and deter people from buying the car. That would certainly bring serious action that you guys seem to want.
Just looking at these issues logically, it seems very strange. Like I said, there are almost identical complaints about the 8 DCT as the 9 ZF. And some people say the issue is apparent right away--others say only after many miles. Some people talk about down shifting where the car goes into neutral and seems to look for a gear and other issues that sound more like dog clutch issues.
If you look at car forums for other cars, transmission complaints are often just as, if not more, rampant. It just seems like a really picky area for people.
So yes, I think it would be really helpful to see videos or anything else that could help potential buyers and others really evaluate what's going on.
If a video clearly showed the issue, it could easily spread onto many auto sites and deter people from buying the car. That would certainly bring serious action that you guys seem to want.
Just looking at these issues logically, it seems very strange. Like I said, there are almost identical complaints about the 8 DCT as the 9 ZF. And some people say the issue is apparent right away--others say only after many miles. Some people talk about down shifting where the car goes into neutral and seems to look for a gear and other issues that sound more like dog clutch issues.
If you look at car forums for other cars, transmission complaints are often just as, if not more, rampant. It just seems like a really picky area for people.
So yes, I think it would be really helpful to see videos or anything else that could help potential buyers and others really evaluate what's going on.
Last edited by iesu3423; 09-21-2015 at 07:29 PM.
09-21-2015, 07:34 PM
#491
Suzuka Master
Given the amount of posts on this in here, I'd expect someone to have made at least one video, especially given that the goal was to raise attention from Acura.
If a video clearly showed the issue, it could easily spread onto many auto sites and deter people from buying the car. That would certainly bring serious action that you guys seem to want.
Just looking at these issues logically, it seems very strange. Like I said, there are almost identical complaints about the 8 DCT as the 9 ZF. And some people say the issue is apparent right away--others say only after many miles. Some people talk about down shifting where the car goes into neutral and seems to look for a gear and other issues that sound more like dog clutch issues.
If you look at car forums for other cars, transmission complaints are often just as, if not more, rampant. It just seems like a really picky area for people.
So yes, I think it would be really helpful to see videos or anything else that could help potential buyers and others really evaluate what's going on.
If a video clearly showed the issue, it could easily spread onto many auto sites and deter people from buying the car. That would certainly bring serious action that you guys seem to want.
Just looking at these issues logically, it seems very strange. Like I said, there are almost identical complaints about the 8 DCT as the 9 ZF. And some people say the issue is apparent right away--others say only after many miles. Some people talk about down shifting where the car goes into neutral and seems to look for a gear and other issues that sound more like dog clutch issues.
If you look at car forums for other cars, transmission complaints are often just as, if not more, rampant. It just seems like a really picky area for people.
So yes, I think it would be really helpful to see videos or anything else that could help potential buyers and others really evaluate what's going on.
09-21-2015, 08:19 PM
#492
All this is ironic. If you did not like the way the car drove, why did you buy it?
I have had 2 Harleys in the past 5 years. Currently ride a Goldwing Valkyrie. Stop by Harley to test ride the new slim S with the 110 motor. It shook at speed, was slow and shifted klunky. Simple, I did not buy it. I did not try to change the design because I became accustomed to smooth, quiet and powerful motor and trans of the GW.
I work for an Acura dealership that sells ~ 1,000 vehicles per year. The same trans is in the MDX too, so majority of new Acura sales are the 9 speed between the 2 models. I have had 1 (one) complaint on the 9 speed.
The 9 speed trans is great. I drive a V6 TLX with no complaints. Sure it felt different from my TSX the first few days. I don't notice anything now. Also, we have not had 1 problem with the trans.
I have had 2 Harleys in the past 5 years. Currently ride a Goldwing Valkyrie. Stop by Harley to test ride the new slim S with the 110 motor. It shook at speed, was slow and shifted klunky. Simple, I did not buy it. I did not try to change the design because I became accustomed to smooth, quiet and powerful motor and trans of the GW.
I work for an Acura dealership that sells ~ 1,000 vehicles per year. The same trans is in the MDX too, so majority of new Acura sales are the 9 speed between the 2 models. I have had 1 (one) complaint on the 9 speed.
The 9 speed trans is great. I drive a V6 TLX with no complaints. Sure it felt different from my TSX the first few days. I don't notice anything now. Also, we have not had 1 problem with the trans.
09-21-2015, 09:20 PM
#494
All this is ironic. If you did not like the way the car drove, why did you buy it?
I have had 2 Harleys in the past 5 years. Currently ride a Goldwing Valkyrie. Stop by Harley to test ride the new slim S with the 110 motor. It shook at speed, was slow and shifted klunky. Simple, I did not buy it. I did not try to change the design because I became accustomed to smooth, quiet and powerful motor and trans of the GW.
I work for an Acura dealership that sells ~ 1,000 vehicles per year. The same trans is in the MDX too, so majority of new Acura sales are the 9 speed between the 2 models. I have had 1 (one) complaint on the 9 speed.
The 9 speed trans is great. I drive a V6 TLX with no complaints. Sure it felt different from my TSX the first few days. I don't notice anything now. Also, we have not had 1 problem with the trans.
I have had 2 Harleys in the past 5 years. Currently ride a Goldwing Valkyrie. Stop by Harley to test ride the new slim S with the 110 motor. It shook at speed, was slow and shifted klunky. Simple, I did not buy it. I did not try to change the design because I became accustomed to smooth, quiet and powerful motor and trans of the GW.
I work for an Acura dealership that sells ~ 1,000 vehicles per year. The same trans is in the MDX too, so majority of new Acura sales are the 9 speed between the 2 models. I have had 1 (one) complaint on the 9 speed.
The 9 speed trans is great. I drive a V6 TLX with no complaints. Sure it felt different from my TSX the first few days. I don't notice anything now. Also, we have not had 1 problem with the trans.
Of course you work for Acura. Of course you are trying to convince us this is all in our heads. This thread has been alive since October 2014. The transmission is still a POS.
True, I bet there are many, many perfectly functioning transmissions. I have driven several of them. I drove a 2016 MDX. Again, great transmission performance. My car and countless others.. Crap transmission. Lawyers are involved with many buyers. This will get fixed one way or another.
09-21-2015, 09:22 PM
#495
Also, when I test drove the TLX, I drove a 4 cylinder, that I did not buy because of the reverse to drive clunk. I tested a V6 that was PERFECT. Transmission was amazing.
My car had 4 miles on it when I took it home. My salesman told me it was brand new (still had plastic on it) but it drove just like the other one. I wouldn't have known any different though. The transmission issues did not show up for about 5 or 6 days. There would have been no way to tell on a brand new car.
My car had 4 miles on it when I took it home. My salesman told me it was brand new (still had plastic on it) but it drove just like the other one. I wouldn't have known any different though. The transmission issues did not show up for about 5 or 6 days. There would have been no way to tell on a brand new car.
09-21-2015, 09:32 PM
#496
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-038.PDF
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-040.PDF
If a video clearly showed the issue, it could easily spread onto many auto sites and deter people from buying the car. That would certainly bring serious action that you guys seem to want.
Just looking at these issues logically, it seems very strange. Like I said, there are almost identical complaints about the 8 DCT as the 9 ZF. And some people say the issue is apparent right away--others say only after many miles. Some people talk about down shifting where the car goes into neutral and seems to look for a gear and other issues that sound more like dog clutch issues.
http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-021.PDF
For something "that's just the way it is", Acura sure seems to be trying to fix it. Please Acura, don't fix "what ain't broke!"
So yes, I think it would be really helpful to see videos or anything else that could help potential buyers and others really evaluate what's going on.
Last edited by Rocketsfan; 09-21-2015 at 09:35 PM.
09-21-2015, 09:36 PM
#497
Summer is Coming
I don't own a TLX, only test driven a few V6's one some short test drives. Yes the transmission shifts very differently from a traditional 5 or 6 speed. That is probably all most of us have ever driven. However I do believe there are issues with the way this transmissions shifts. The multiple TSBs on the 9ZF show that not only is there a problem that Acura and ZF is trying to fix, but it also shows the most frustrating thing for everyone, that it is so variably that a fix is hard to find. On top of this I think there was even an article on the issue where they talk about trying to fix the software but that Americans seem to expect their transmissions to be smoother than Europeans (which I don't believe).
I parked next to a new TLX a few weeks ago and the new owner happened to walk up to the car. I asked him how it drove and if he felt any odd shifting. He did mention the transmission shifted rough sometimes but it didn't seem to bother him. He didn't take it to the dealer. He did say he loved the car.
There are two things that make this a hard problem... one is how each car seems to be so variable from another. Some have no issue, some have minor, some have major. Some seems fixed by software that others are not. Some made worse.
And some don't develop a problem until a few hundred or more miles.
Some happens worse in different IDS modes or different driving styles.
All I know is that it is the only reason why I don't have this car. Even if I test drive this car and it is okay, there doesn't seem to be any guarantee that it will be that way 500 miles from now. As I said in an earlier post, if Acura would give me an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the transmission it would relieve a lot of my reservations. But they won't..... because they can't afford the future liability??? I don't know. They want me to take the liability. I already had one Honda transmission go out on me in the 90's and they did not do anything about it I don't want to repeat that.
I parked next to a new TLX a few weeks ago and the new owner happened to walk up to the car. I asked him how it drove and if he felt any odd shifting. He did mention the transmission shifted rough sometimes but it didn't seem to bother him. He didn't take it to the dealer. He did say he loved the car.
There are two things that make this a hard problem... one is how each car seems to be so variable from another. Some have no issue, some have minor, some have major. Some seems fixed by software that others are not. Some made worse.
And some don't develop a problem until a few hundred or more miles.
Some happens worse in different IDS modes or different driving styles.
All I know is that it is the only reason why I don't have this car. Even if I test drive this car and it is okay, there doesn't seem to be any guarantee that it will be that way 500 miles from now. As I said in an earlier post, if Acura would give me an 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the transmission it would relieve a lot of my reservations. But they won't..... because they can't afford the future liability??? I don't know. They want me to take the liability. I already had one Honda transmission go out on me in the 90's and they did not do anything about it I don't want to repeat that.
09-21-2015, 09:38 PM
#498
To be fair, the FCA manufactured 9-speed has been much more problematic than the ZF. Reading through the Cherokee forums, you'll find numerous stalls, outright failures and overheating issues plus manufacturing defects in a number of transmissions that required disabling downshifts from 3->2 to protect internal components.
09-21-2015, 10:21 PM
#499
I have this issue and am working to find out any commonalities I can between build dates, models as well as if any of the TSBs (15-038 & 15-040 v1 & v2) have had any effect. To this end I have created a very short survey on Survey Monkey, the link is below:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZT59YTN
This is not anything official, but want to see if there is anything in common. I plan on sharing results here as well as with Acura if we can get enough results.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZT59YTN
This is not anything official, but want to see if there is anything in common. I plan on sharing results here as well as with Acura if we can get enough results.
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iesu3423 (09-22-2015)
09-22-2015, 02:53 AM
#500
Also, when I test drove the TLX, I drove a 4 cylinder, that I did not buy because of the reverse to drive clunk. I tested a V6 that was PERFECT. Transmission was amazing.
My car had 4 miles on it when I took it home. My salesman told me it was brand new (still had plastic on it) but it drove just like the other one. I wouldn't have known any different though. The transmission issues did not show up for about 5 or 6 days. There would have been no way to tell on a brand new car.
My car had 4 miles on it when I took it home. My salesman told me it was brand new (still had plastic on it) but it drove just like the other one. I wouldn't have known any different though. The transmission issues did not show up for about 5 or 6 days. There would have been no way to tell on a brand new car.
09-22-2015, 03:12 AM
#501
Also, when I test drove the TLX, I drove a 4 cylinder, that I did not buy because of the reverse to drive clunk. I tested a V6 that was PERFECT. Transmission was amazing.
My car had 4 miles on it when I took it home. My salesman told me it was brand new (still had plastic on it) but it drove just like the other one. I wouldn't have known any different though. The transmission issues did not show up for about 5 or 6 days. There would have been no way to tell on a brand new car.
My car had 4 miles on it when I took it home. My salesman told me it was brand new (still had plastic on it) but it drove just like the other one. I wouldn't have known any different though. The transmission issues did not show up for about 5 or 6 days. There would have been no way to tell on a brand new car.
I'm not saying there aren't real things people are feeling, but it seems like a lot of it is mishmashed. It seems possible that there are all kinds of different things people are feeling, yet it somehow gets blurred into one problem and the 9 speed ZF transmission supposedly being defective.
And of course, many, many people report no problems whatsoever.
That poll is a great idea and so is recording videos. That's the sort of thing that can help Acura and owners.
If somethings pops up after 5-6 days, my suspicion would be with the learning procedure.
FWIW, I've also tried used TLXes and some with ~50-100 miles on them. I never noticed anything.
09-22-2015, 03:52 AM
#502
regarding this: http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/B15-040.PDF
2015 TLX V6 SH-AWD 19UUB3…FA000001 to 19UUB3…FA022024
Why does the VIN range go to 22,024? The most recent produced ones I've seen are at 10,300.
2015 TLX V6 SH-AWD 19UUB3…FA000001 to 19UUB3…FA022024
Why does the VIN range go to 22,024? The most recent produced ones I've seen are at 10,300.
09-22-2015, 06:38 AM
#504
I drove 3 vehicles with the 9AT: 2 TLXs and 1 MDX
The first TLX shifted about what I expected...a bit laggy but nothing horrible. Coming from a G37 with a 7AT I have an idea of what the lag would be, but it was a bit worse (I attributed it to extra gears)
The second TLX was a loaner from our dealer....we were originally intending on purchasing one so I got one for a weekend. The car had about 150 miles on it when we picked it up. And it shifted *completely* differently than the first one. Downshifts felt like they took forever, everytime I leaned into the throttle it felt like the car was driving itself out of mud. Upshifts were smooth, but when I end up in 6th gear at 35mph, I dont care how smooth they are....I didnt want them to happen at all! Came away very disappointed, especially a car so new like that.
And no, this was not a "dog clutch" thing....please keep in mind the dog clutches only engage in 5th and higher AFAIK. That means a harsh 1-2 or 2-3 (or backwards) shift should have nothing to do with the dogs.
The MDX we drove for about 20 minutes and oddly enough, I felt like it shifted like every other automatic Ive driven. Would it stay that way I dont know, but I was surprised at how "transparent" it was. I know the final gear ratio in that 9AT is different, and obviously the vehicle dynamics are VERY different, maybe that has something to do with why it works better.
And a video wouldnt really catch what people are seeing/feeling. If I was videoing my test drive you wouldnt be able to tell the delay when I tronched on the pedal and when the car actually started to accelerate like it should unless I had multiple cameras, etc.
I made sure to tell the salesman at our dealer about it....he nodded and said thanks anyway. When the guy trying to sell me something acts like that, it means he knows its an issue and has heard of it before.
The first TLX shifted about what I expected...a bit laggy but nothing horrible. Coming from a G37 with a 7AT I have an idea of what the lag would be, but it was a bit worse (I attributed it to extra gears)
The second TLX was a loaner from our dealer....we were originally intending on purchasing one so I got one for a weekend. The car had about 150 miles on it when we picked it up. And it shifted *completely* differently than the first one. Downshifts felt like they took forever, everytime I leaned into the throttle it felt like the car was driving itself out of mud. Upshifts were smooth, but when I end up in 6th gear at 35mph, I dont care how smooth they are....I didnt want them to happen at all! Came away very disappointed, especially a car so new like that.
And no, this was not a "dog clutch" thing....please keep in mind the dog clutches only engage in 5th and higher AFAIK. That means a harsh 1-2 or 2-3 (or backwards) shift should have nothing to do with the dogs.
The MDX we drove for about 20 minutes and oddly enough, I felt like it shifted like every other automatic Ive driven. Would it stay that way I dont know, but I was surprised at how "transparent" it was. I know the final gear ratio in that 9AT is different, and obviously the vehicle dynamics are VERY different, maybe that has something to do with why it works better.
And a video wouldnt really catch what people are seeing/feeling. If I was videoing my test drive you wouldnt be able to tell the delay when I tronched on the pedal and when the car actually started to accelerate like it should unless I had multiple cameras, etc.
I made sure to tell the salesman at our dealer about it....he nodded and said thanks anyway. When the guy trying to sell me something acts like that, it means he knows its an issue and has heard of it before.
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Stew4HD (09-22-2015)
09-22-2015, 08:24 AM
#505
Racer
09-22-2015, 11:49 AM
#506
Racer
Thread Starter
So Acura has acknowledged the issue in a OnePack video, many consumers have complained about it, the automotive press has documented it, and Acura has released at least two TSBs mentioning the issue yet some genius says we don't understand dog clutches or are making it up and that we need a video? First, the 2-3 shift is accomplished by friction clutches. Second, I'd LOVE not to be here reporting issues or looking for solutions to an undesirable behavior in my $40k car, so no, we're not making it up. Further, why doesn't the MDX with the same trans. do it? We could get into a bloody Hyundai Elantra and get better shift quality. It's not acceptable.
Last edited by jeich182; 09-22-2015 at 11:53 AM.
09-22-2015, 12:21 PM
#507
The MDX has one different part, IIRC, and the programming is just different (you can't expect the same ratios for different classes of vehicles). That being said, we had a Canadian member just receive the TLX software yesterday, says it feels different now. Will keep watch.
09-22-2015, 04:29 PM
#508
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
So Acura has acknowledged the issue in a OnePack video, many consumers have complained about it, the automotive press has documented it, and Acura has released at least two TSBs mentioning the issue yet some genius says we don't understand dog clutches or are making it up and that we need a video? First, the 2-3 shift is accomplished by friction clutches. Second, I'd LOVE not to be here reporting issues or looking for solutions to an undesirable behavior in my $40k car, so no, we're not making it up. Further, why doesn't the MDX with the same trans. do it? We could get into a bloody Hyundai Elantra and get better shift quality. It's not acceptable.
This 2-3 shift issue is NOT "just the behavior of this 9-speed". The delay and severity of this shift would be unacceptable in a 1990 base model Integra, never mind my $40K+ (supposedly) performance luxury sedan. I paid too much money for the car to bounce my head against the head rest every time I shift from 2 to 3 - which is exactly what happens.
I'm not saying there aren't real things people are feeling, but it seems like a lot of it is mishmashed. It seems possible that there are all kinds of different things people are feeling, yet it somehow gets blurred into one problem and the 9 speed ZF transmission supposedly being defective.
And of course, many, many people report no problems whatsoever.
And of course, many, many people report no problems whatsoever.
Also you can also see from the posts that results do vary, and it may have a lot to do with how the transmission learns or other things we haven't figured out yet. And I don't believe the transmission is defective, I believe it was poorly designed. Or the software was poorly implemented.
Also, I'm the one guy here (so far) who's transmission has failed already (specifically the transmission control model). So I'm not exactly a fan of this transmission - the image of my new $44K car being towed to the dealership after 6,000 miles is still fresh in my mind.
09-22-2015, 04:46 PM
#509
Cruisin'
For me, after the updates and re-learn and driving it for about 800 miles thereafter, 1-2 is better and 2-3 still makes me cringe but only when the car changes at around 2000 RPM. I know most people don't want to put the pedal to the metal in order to remedy the issue, but making the car progress through 1-4 at 3000 rpm isn't too bad imo (in sport mode). Give it a try and see how it feels. 
09-23-2015, 06:15 AM
#510
09-23-2015, 07:06 AM
#511
Suzuka Master
I had no idea that I had that kind of power but hey, I learned something new today! Lowering my car not only caused everyone else's V6 9ZF to act differently but by lowering my car, I mutilated it and now my transmission has to work harder, causing more heat and, therefore, makes the 2-3 shift be harsh.
I am very sorry guys. I'll will take my car in to have the original wheels and tires refitted and put the stock springs back on... the guilt I feel is too heavy....
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ATXTLX (09-23-2015)
09-23-2015, 07:36 AM
#512
i have to apologize to everyone experiencing this shifting issue. It's my fault you are having this problem. Yep, i admit that lowering my car caused this for everyone else.
I had no idea that i had that kind of power but hey, i learned something new today! Lowering my car not only caused everyone else's v6 9zf to act differently but by lowering my car, i mutilated it and now my transmission has to work harder, causing more heat and, therefore, makes the 2-3 shift be harsh.
I am very sorry guys. I'll will take my car in to have the original wheels and tires refitted and put the stock springs back on... The guilt i feel is too heavy....
I had no idea that i had that kind of power but hey, i learned something new today! Lowering my car not only caused everyone else's v6 9zf to act differently but by lowering my car, i mutilated it and now my transmission has to work harder, causing more heat and, therefore, makes the 2-3 shift be harsh.
I am very sorry guys. I'll will take my car in to have the original wheels and tires refitted and put the stock springs back on... The guilt i feel is too heavy....
09-23-2015, 10:25 AM
#513
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Sometimes it seems like the transmission holds second gear a split second longer than it should, then realizes it should have shifted and quickly and abruptly upshifts to third gear. I have no idea what the actual mechanical situation is, but that's what it seems like to the driver.
This situation is most noticeable when the engine is cold. But I've been paying close attention to our TLX's shifting the past couple days and the two-three upshift is never as smooth as other gear shifts, even when the powertrain is warmed up.
This situation is most noticeable when the engine is cold. But I've been paying close attention to our TLX's shifting the past couple days and the two-three upshift is never as smooth as other gear shifts, even when the powertrain is warmed up.
09-23-2015, 12:19 PM
#514
Three Wheelin'
A software fix is in the works works works wreaks week.
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Stew4HD (09-23-2015)
09-23-2015, 12:51 PM
#515
Suzuka Master
Seriously? It worse than that. You do not actually have a TLX, and wish that you did (TLX envy). Your software modeling and simulation activities of the car you wish you had contracted a virus. It was then transmitted those owners who do not practice safe driving and caused their problem. All the trolls and sales reps from other car companies heard about it and came here to post bogus reports.
A software fix is in the works works works wreaks week.
A software fix is in the works works works wreaks week.
"In a little while from now
If I'm not feeling any less sour
I promise myself to treat myself
And visit a nearby tower
And climbing to the top will throw myself off..."
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Stew4HD (09-23-2015)
09-24-2015, 06:44 AM
#518
For those of you who don't like the supposed "slow upshifting":
The TLX Drive-by-Wire™ throttle system replaces a conventional throttle cable with smart electronics that "connect" the accelerator pedal to a throttle valve inside the throttle-body. The result is less under-hood clutter and lower weight, as well as quicker and more accurate throttle actuation. Plus, a specially programmed "gain" rate between the throttle pedal and engine offers improved drivability and optimized engine response to suit specific driving conditions.
Acura's Drive-by-Wire throttle system establishes the current driving conditions by monitoring throttle pedal position, throttle valve position, engine speed (rpm) and road speed. This information is used to define the throttle control sensitivity that gives the TLX's throttle pedal a predictable and responsive feel that meets driver expectations.
Three different throttle profiles are available in the TLX. When the Integrated Dynamics System (IDS) is in the ECON mode, the system uses a gradual profile that encourages fuel savings. In Normal mode, the throttle profile balances economy and performance for all-around driving. When the Sport or Sport+ mode is selected, the system switches to a more aggressive throttle map to enhance responsiveness.
The TLX Drive-by-Wire™ throttle system replaces a conventional throttle cable with smart electronics that "connect" the accelerator pedal to a throttle valve inside the throttle-body. The result is less under-hood clutter and lower weight, as well as quicker and more accurate throttle actuation. Plus, a specially programmed "gain" rate between the throttle pedal and engine offers improved drivability and optimized engine response to suit specific driving conditions.
Acura's Drive-by-Wire throttle system establishes the current driving conditions by monitoring throttle pedal position, throttle valve position, engine speed (rpm) and road speed. This information is used to define the throttle control sensitivity that gives the TLX's throttle pedal a predictable and responsive feel that meets driver expectations.
Three different throttle profiles are available in the TLX. When the Integrated Dynamics System (IDS) is in the ECON mode, the system uses a gradual profile that encourages fuel savings. In Normal mode, the throttle profile balances economy and performance for all-around driving. When the Sport or Sport+ mode is selected, the system switches to a more aggressive throttle map to enhance responsiveness.
09-24-2015, 06:46 AM
#519
Yeah, I really appreciated reading that article. The problem for the people in this thread is at the bottom, after recognizing and experiencing the issue, and even saying that it was a consistent issue, the author said:
"Neither issue is pressing. But if this were my TLX, I'd probably mention this abrupt upshift to my dealer on the next service just to see what came of it."
That pretty much destroys everything that's been said here. The people here say the transmission is a "POS," want to return the car, etc., etc.
If a professional reviewer, someone who obviously is an expert in all sorts of cars, basically recognizes the issue completely but then goes ahead and says "neither issue is pressing," that's a big problem for those who argue the car/transmission/etc. are defective and are launching class actions.
The article supports the point I've been making. This isn't a defect. The car uses complex software for a number of things, and perhaps, as the TSB noted, the software is not perfectly calibrated in the sense that in some driving situations, some drivers (because it learns your style) will experience harder THAN EXPECTED upshifts. It may be that with the nature of the car, transmission, and the software, there is no ideal setting such that the performance matches up perfectly with every driver's expectations.
Things should be put in perspective. The transmission has a ton of upside, and this is not a recall-worthy issue, like the transmission being in D when you set it to P. This is basically people upset that a much more advanced 9 speed transmission with many positive features also is a bit different and has some issues, especially for those expecting the smooth performance of a traditional Honda 6 speed that they have been accustomed to after 10 years.
The reality is, as I noted, that you can go back to the day Honda announced the 9 speed, and many people in this forum immediately said the transmission was going to be faulty, problematic, "how can Honda do this!," etc. That was well before anyone had tried it out. People here were primed to find issues. On top of that, this forum is 90% 15-year Acura owners complaining about how "my TSX, my TL" had _________ and the TLX IS WORSE! Acura was trying to draw in a huge new crowd with the TLX, and they succeeded sales-wise. The goal isn't to satisfy impossible-to-satisfy past owners and include everything they've loved but get rid of everything someone complained about.
If there's a serious defect, recall-worthy, truly "hate my car"-worthy issue, then that should be promptly addressed, and it warrants a high level of concern. Nothing in the posts suggests that. IF you guys want to go that direction, you should make videos that show the problem. Even 4-5 videos that all illustrate the same problem could easily spread through press and require more of a response than a couple TSBs.
I think some of you guys have really obsessed about the problem, and then you can't even enjoy the car, because you're just sitting there waiting to feel the hard upshift. Plenty of other people probably have a similar "problem" and don't lose sleep over it and still really enjoy the car.
And we should still separate issues from car features that were more than apparent on any test drive (like the way the throttle works).
"Neither issue is pressing. But if this were my TLX, I'd probably mention this abrupt upshift to my dealer on the next service just to see what came of it."
That pretty much destroys everything that's been said here. The people here say the transmission is a "POS," want to return the car, etc., etc.
If a professional reviewer, someone who obviously is an expert in all sorts of cars, basically recognizes the issue completely but then goes ahead and says "neither issue is pressing," that's a big problem for those who argue the car/transmission/etc. are defective and are launching class actions.
The article supports the point I've been making. This isn't a defect. The car uses complex software for a number of things, and perhaps, as the TSB noted, the software is not perfectly calibrated in the sense that in some driving situations, some drivers (because it learns your style) will experience harder THAN EXPECTED upshifts. It may be that with the nature of the car, transmission, and the software, there is no ideal setting such that the performance matches up perfectly with every driver's expectations.
Things should be put in perspective. The transmission has a ton of upside, and this is not a recall-worthy issue, like the transmission being in D when you set it to P. This is basically people upset that a much more advanced 9 speed transmission with many positive features also is a bit different and has some issues, especially for those expecting the smooth performance of a traditional Honda 6 speed that they have been accustomed to after 10 years.
The reality is, as I noted, that you can go back to the day Honda announced the 9 speed, and many people in this forum immediately said the transmission was going to be faulty, problematic, "how can Honda do this!," etc. That was well before anyone had tried it out. People here were primed to find issues. On top of that, this forum is 90% 15-year Acura owners complaining about how "my TSX, my TL" had _________ and the TLX IS WORSE! Acura was trying to draw in a huge new crowd with the TLX, and they succeeded sales-wise. The goal isn't to satisfy impossible-to-satisfy past owners and include everything they've loved but get rid of everything someone complained about.
If there's a serious defect, recall-worthy, truly "hate my car"-worthy issue, then that should be promptly addressed, and it warrants a high level of concern. Nothing in the posts suggests that. IF you guys want to go that direction, you should make videos that show the problem. Even 4-5 videos that all illustrate the same problem could easily spread through press and require more of a response than a couple TSBs.
I think some of you guys have really obsessed about the problem, and then you can't even enjoy the car, because you're just sitting there waiting to feel the hard upshift. Plenty of other people probably have a similar "problem" and don't lose sleep over it and still really enjoy the car.
And we should still separate issues from car features that were more than apparent on any test drive (like the way the throttle works).
Last edited by iesu3423; 09-24-2015 at 06:59 AM.
09-24-2015, 07:16 AM
#520
Also, see this response to that article:
"The TLX is using the 9-speed ZF 9HP48 transaxle that is a member of the 9HP family currently used in FCA, Honda and Land Rover applications. It's an extremely compact design and uses a lot of friction braking, friction clutches and dog clutches to control routing of torque through the four planetary gearsets.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/doc...ochure_9hp.pdf
When saying that the 2-3 shift isn't smooth, are you checking to see if that's the actual 2nd to 3rd gear or just the 2nd and 3rd shift from a normal stop? If you're driving easy and Honda/ZF have it programmed to start in a higher gear you'll experience a slight delay in shift as the transmission controller brakes and times the engagement of the dog clutch that engages between or passing through the 4-5 gears (also between 7-8), at which time there's also heavier torque management to keep input torque down.
For the other gear changes it uses the normal clutch-to-clutch shifts of the planetary gearsets which happen almost instantly, but due to having to switch between the planetary gearset (there are four, two main that each have another nested planetary gearset inside them) and use of dog clutches (which are essentially on-off only by design and can't be slipped like a friction clutch) it takes more time to engage.
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application. They could probably get just as wide an overall ratio spread with less gears but the extra gear count allows the automaker to use the design and tailor shifts and gears ratios to better match up with engine torque characteristics for better economy.
Down side is that the transmission behaves "different" than what people are expecting and not every gear change will feel the same. Chrysler has had a lot of teething issues and I'm guessing the updates to the transmission calibrations have been a combination of improvements ZF is making to the timing of the dog clutch engagement along with the automaker trying to mask this somewhat by altering torque management (output) of the engine calibration during shifts and better predictive timing of shifts under changing vehicle loads.
It is logical to an engineer and the operation would make perfect sense but try explaining it to an average consumer that only knows something is different or doesn't feel right on some shifts compared to others. If ZF and the automakers can't get the complex powertrain controller calibrations refined enough to mask the operating characteristics I expect this family of transaxles will be short lived."
"The TLX is using the 9-speed ZF 9HP48 transaxle that is a member of the 9HP family currently used in FCA, Honda and Land Rover applications. It's an extremely compact design and uses a lot of friction braking, friction clutches and dog clutches to control routing of torque through the four planetary gearsets.
http://www.zf.com/media/media/en/doc...ochure_9hp.pdf
When saying that the 2-3 shift isn't smooth, are you checking to see if that's the actual 2nd to 3rd gear or just the 2nd and 3rd shift from a normal stop? If you're driving easy and Honda/ZF have it programmed to start in a higher gear you'll experience a slight delay in shift as the transmission controller brakes and times the engagement of the dog clutch that engages between or passing through the 4-5 gears (also between 7-8), at which time there's also heavier torque management to keep input torque down.
For the other gear changes it uses the normal clutch-to-clutch shifts of the planetary gearsets which happen almost instantly, but due to having to switch between the planetary gearset (there are four, two main that each have another nested planetary gearset inside them) and use of dog clutches (which are essentially on-off only by design and can't be slipped like a friction clutch) it takes more time to engage.
From a technical standpoint there's nothing wrong with this design and it allows ZF to cram a lot of ratios in a very small transverse application. They could probably get just as wide an overall ratio spread with less gears but the extra gear count allows the automaker to use the design and tailor shifts and gears ratios to better match up with engine torque characteristics for better economy.
Down side is that the transmission behaves "different" than what people are expecting and not every gear change will feel the same. Chrysler has had a lot of teething issues and I'm guessing the updates to the transmission calibrations have been a combination of improvements ZF is making to the timing of the dog clutch engagement along with the automaker trying to mask this somewhat by altering torque management (output) of the engine calibration during shifts and better predictive timing of shifts under changing vehicle loads.
It is logical to an engineer and the operation would make perfect sense but try explaining it to an average consumer that only knows something is different or doesn't feel right on some shifts compared to others. If ZF and the automakers can't get the complex powertrain controller calibrations refined enough to mask the operating characteristics I expect this family of transaxles will be short lived."