tlxsteve

I used this link...

2014 mdx self diagnosis and hidden menu procedure - Acura MDX Forum : Acura MDX SUV Forums

tlxsteve

That would be a good guess. Somehow the two teams (ELS and ANC) did not work together on the TLX.

It appears to be that ANC effectively cuts out the high and low frequencies of all noise, be it music or actual noise. ANC works too good.

The ELS was designed by a sound engineer who's initials are E L S. With ANC on, you would not think this was a valid statement. With ANC off, in Accessory mode, disabled mode or unplugged mode, the true sound comes out. Seems this has been an issue in the MDX and possibly ILX. Why it wasn't fixed in the TLX is a mystery. If I was the sound engineer ELS, I would be upset that ANC causes the ELS system to sound weak.

Rocketsfan

Joan Jett never sounded so flat ... I Love Rock 'N Roll may as well have been a polka.


Jazz on XM sounds pretty good, though. I have to admit, the ELS system in the TLX doesn't sound as good as the one in the 3G. Not for the most part, anyway. And it's mostly because the bass is muddy/MIA. Elliot Scheiner would not be pleased (I hope).

MedX172

I'm not a sound engineer, but I wonder if it has limitations due to the sophistication of the system itself. I mean, road noise isn't incredibly dynamic in range. When on a specific pavement the sound is fairly static with minor variations. To ask the system to send an inverse phased signal to address this while at the same time distinguishing it from other desired in-cabin sound might be difficult? Just guessing here.

tlxsteve

Did you try turning off ANC?

Rocketsfan

No, not yet. I'll give that a whirl probably this weekend unless I get some time to play around with it before then.

a77

so the key question is how much noisier is the car with anc off? I also wonder, surely not, if there is a DSP setting in diag mode. Fiddling with that in the Accord makes a fairly dramatic difference to the good. Also the bkurb says that Anc operates through door speakers not the sub. So can't help but wonder why low frequencies are hurt.

tlxsteve

It was easy once you got into developer mode.

You will hear a low frequency hum for 30 seconds, but don't panic. It goes away.

If you don't want to do that. Sit in the car with the engine off. Press the start button once with your foot off of the brake. Listen to your Joan Jett album. You should hear a difference since ANC is off when the engine is off.

tlxsteve

I did not find the car noise increase when I turned ANC off. When I got a phone call, the music muted and I could talk and hear the call fine while driving 70mph.

The good thing is that you can turn ANC back on if you find the noise unbearable and you like a lame stereo.

Also, it's a brand new car. It better not make much noise or I would want to hear it to take it in. The car has other sound muffling features so the car should be quiet.

The documentation says that it cuts low and high frequencies. I verified this. How it does it, I don't know completely besides that it sends an out-of-phase signal to cancel out the noise. Unfortunately, it sees music as noise.

Remember, you can turn ANC back on. It's not a one-way setting. Also, try the stereo in accessory mode in you don't want to make the decision. I figure turning ANC off is a whole lot easier to turn it off than it would be removing the glove box and pulling the plug.

Quandry

I could not find the setting for turning ANC off. There are a whole lot of other option in developer mode. Do you remember which one it is?

ZAXDude

After getting in to the mode once you press the "Nav" + "Back" + "Menu", release holding those buttons. Then press & hold "Menu" again to enter I think what's called "developer" mode.

Once in that mode, the upper screen is controlled by the center knob. Scroll through the options to maneuver to page 3 of the settings. It's on page 3 that you will see the "ANC" option.

I've played with it a little. Turning it off does improve the base/overall sound. But I do believe also that turning it off did impact the quietness of the cabin, particular during highway driving. Not sure if I'll leave it off or on....

tlxsteve

ANC Diag


I think you are in the right spot. It might have been a sub-menu under a menu within developer mode.

tlxsteve

Did you notice that much cabin noise? Was the improvement in your ELS much better or just a slight improvement?

Your car is nearly as new as mine, should there be much noise in a new car. I remember they said they filled the panels with foam. I will have to turn my ANC back on to see if I can tell a difference in cabin noise.

I really do enjoy my stereo now with ANC off.

If the noise is noticeable, I would like to have a toggle switch to go back and forth at will.

ZAXDude

I drive the interstate every day to work, and I did immediately notice a change in the cabin noise this morning with it off. It wasn't excessively worse, but it was enough to notice the difference.

The improvement in the ELS was noticeable...and noticeable in a better way. Was it so much better that I will leave it off? That at this point I just don't know...

I'm hoping some of the neuro settings can be adjusted to help improve the sound without having to turn off the ANC. I haven't had a chance to play with it more, tho.

tlxsteve

I would be interested in what you find out or learn. I would love to have the best of both worlds.

a77

I found that the DTS Neuro setting much improved things. Sound was empty without it.

tlxsteve

My curiosity is killing me.

Did you try it with ANC off or in Accessory mode?

Rocketsfan

Well, I just turned ANC off in mine... supposedly, anyway. I'll see if I can tell any difference tomorrow.

a77

No sorry - only had it one evening.

9SpeedTran

Cool, let us know!

tlxsteve

Here is the link...

2014 mdx self diagnosis and hidden menu procedure - Acura MDX Forum : Acura MDX SUV Forums

pmartone

I wonder if either Elliot S(ELS) or Acura know that ANC and ELS do not play well together? If not, I wonder what we can do about it. Is there a productive procedure to tell Acura that this is a problem, with the hope of a fix (software)?
I don't own a TLX yet, so I can't complain yet, but I hope the issue gets resolved.

tlxsteve

It would appear that these two teams worked in seclusion and did not talk amongst themselves. The ELS sound system as you know was designed by Elliot. Without ANC, I believe that the ELS system works as Elliot designed it. Too bad ANC sees the music as noise and blocks it.

On your next test drive, try listening to the radio in accessory mode with the engine off and then try with the engine running. ANC is off when the engine is off. See if you can tell a difference.

I am not sure where to send information for help. I thought I would put a package together and send it to Customer Relations, unless someone finds a better address.

Apparently, this problem has been around before the TLX. There are references to this problem in the MDX 2014 Forums.

I plan to present print outs from two forums I participate in to show my service rep and salesman that owners are experiencing less than excellent sound quality on the ELS. I also plan to demo the issue in my car when I take it into service tomorrow.

Rocketsfan

Hmm... tested this today, but I didn't see that much difference, but that could be because maybe not much low frequency noise was being generated on my drive? I don't know. I believe I remember reading that on Hondas, the ANC created a 10dB reduction in noise that was below 100 Hz, so you'd need to be listening to a lot of music that generates frequencies that low. I can tell you that I didn't hear much difference in much of Tupac's stuff. Fleetwood Mac sounded the same. DJ Pablo ... not much difference. But then, it could just mean I have lousy ears (I think they're pretty sexy, but whatever!). It probably also should be noted that much of my drive was under 30-50 mph. I should probably test it out on a longer trip on a highway where I can toggle it on and off as I drive without fear of wrecking.


Also, I noticed that once you turn ANC off and then shut your car off, ANC comes back on when you start it up again. So that'd be a pain even if it did work.

usdmJON

Does your bass hit hard enough to vibrate your rear view mirror?

I unplugged my anc verse turning it off.

Rocketsfan

I never even noticed. I just noticed with ANC on, the door panel vibrated like crazy where my knee rested. I may have to pull out some old school bass tracks and test this... DJ Magic Mike and Techmaster PEB to the rescue (lolol).

miner

Rocketsfan - try Peter Gabriel's So album/CD

insanik

I turned off ANC and everything sounds 100 times better.. Subwoofer still is weak though, but its noticeably better

ZAXDude

I played around with turning off the ANC, but in the end I have kept it on. This morning for the first time I used a USB with music on it. HUGE DIFFERENCE between that and XM or FM/HD radio....and somewhat better than bluetooth connection from my phone. I haven't yet tried to listen to a CD.

I'm thinking the poor audio has more to do with the source than the system or the ANC setting. I have always known XM is compressed a lot, but in past cars without ANC it wasn't really noticeable. With ANC on in our TLX, I think it causes XM, and the FM/HD radio, to sound really weak.

Just my thoughts on it... My ears aren't professionally tuned, but I could definitely tell the difference between the sources.

Rocketsfan

Like ZAXDude, I'm no audiophile, but I played some stuff by PM Dawn, Akon, etc. Still haven't tried anything truly bass-heavy, but the bass sounded good when played from a USB (and ripped @ high bitrates). The quality of the bass sounds seems to suffer from XM to USB, but I've also noticed it suffer or be better within each medium, too. I've heard some stuff on USB that didn't hit as hard as they did in my 3G when played from a CD. Same with XM. I'm not sure what to make of it. The sound is pretty good by my standards, but like I said, I'm no audiophile. I especially love the sound of jazz, older R&B, etc. on it.


I also gave up on the ANC vs. non-ANC. I really didn't notice a ton of difference, and it became less important when I realized I had to keep turning it off every time I started the car. As usual, YMMV.

tlxsteve

I hear what you are saying but my ANC seems to stay off when I set it. The clarity is amazing for days afterward. Even Pandora sounds excellent. It could just be in my head.

Rocketsfan

lol. Even if it's just in your head, that's important. Sometimes perception is everything.


The more I listen to my system and after fiddling with the bass and treble, the more awesome it sounds to me. Or maybe I'm just getting used to it. On some songs (played via USB), the bass response is pretty awesome. On others, I don't think it sounds as great as on my 3G. I can't explain it, and I don't know if that's "just the way it is" or if ANC is damaging the sound to any large measure.


One thing I have decided is that the DTS Neural Surround setting will stay on. It sounds awesome with jazz, instrumental, etc. music.

ATLPatrick

I have to ask how you have your bass/treb all set? To me the TLX ELS system is worlds better than my old 3g els was. Now I don't listen to many bass heavy tracks, only thing I really listen to with good bass is EDM, and even then I keep the bass set at -2 and the sub set at 0 so maybe thats why the TLX sounds better to me? I will say the TLX one isn't anywhere near as good as my 2010 TSX was, I loved that sound system. Even with the ANC off in the TLX it isn't as good as that tsx was, but still sounds much better than my 3g to me.

a77

The bass in my base model TSX, non ELS, is easily deep and powerful enough to vibrate the rear view mirror - even sometimes on wimpy XM. Be surprised if the TLX ELS can't!

tlxsteve

I concur. My loaner 2014 TSX Tech radio bounces the mirror around making it blurry. Neat. I forgot how strong bass was in the TSX.

Rocketsfan

I can't remember how it's set now, but I did fiddle with the settings a bit more since that post. I notice that on most stuff it does sound better than my 3G's system, but there are some songs including some of those Joan Jett tracks where the bass just sounds muddy. I can't explain it. I do notice that most stuff that plays off of USB sounds better, though, than they did on the 3G system. On the 3G, I was using CD's. On tracks that don't rely on a lot of bass, it's no contest - the TLX's system with DTS Neural Surround turned on is the winner.

tlxsteve

I know you didn't ask me, but I figured I would weigh in. I asked my DJ friend to adjust my stereo to what he thinks sounds good. I started off with all settings centered.

What he said as soon as we fired up the ELS was that the Center channle was too high. We backed it down and he went to adjust the other sound settings. He adjusted my car for Contempory Jazz (like XM Watercolors). It sounds a lot better.





Center dropped down -2, Subwoofer +2





Bass +2, Fader -1

Opinions may vary.

tx4md

Thanks for the suggestion on the settings I'll give it a try. I am disappointed we have an equalizer with a "midrange" adjustment. Maybe this is why there is a center speaker adjustment.

qwertybobo5

Just took delivery of my new 2015 TLX SH-AWD Tech. Love the ride, as it is a replacement for my 2002 TL-S Nav.

I'm glad to hear other people are concerned about the sound quality in the 2015 TLX. To be honest, the Bose factory system in my 2002 TL-S sounds much, much better than the ELS in the 2015. Further, I added a SIRIUS Starmate to my 2002 that is hardwired to the factory head unit (using the secondary CD changer input) and as far as I'm concerned, that Sirius radio sounds 100 times better than the built-in XM in the 2015. I have no idea if it's just Sirius vs. XM or the head-unit in the 2002 vs 2015, or something else.

I am interested in trying the ANC suggestion in this thread to see if I can get the sound quality to improve. No fancy equipment, just my ears.

I'm definitely open to other suggestions to improve the sound quality in the 2015.

BTW, still have the 2002. Couldn't bring myself to sell it yet!

tlxsteve

Not sure if you know this or found out already, but turn on DTS Neural and see if that helps. I don't know why the default of this option is set to OFF.

Also, in a couple posts back, I mentioned that my DJ friend said the center channel is over-powering the other channels. He recommended backing it down to -2.

Since the art of sound is a personal taste, I am sure you will find many different opinions. The opinion is also mixed about ANC, but I like leaving it off.