usdmJON

FWD cars run staggered set ups all the time. Both functional and not. A functionally staggered FWD car would have wider wheels in the front where you make power. If you like the staggered RWD look then you could always still put wider wheels in the rear... or better yet run a square set up with spacers in the rear.

Regardless. Wheel upgrades on ANY car can be the best performance mod done if done right. It's called unsprung weight. Shaving off wheel/hub/brake weight does more than shaving off weight being held up by the suspension... which is the sprung weight. The ratio of unsprung to sprung is different depending on the degree of performance the car sees. But I remember in high school my shop teacher's old school project mercedes would see each lb shaved off of unsprung weight would account for 4lbs on the chassis. That ratio is NOT true for our Acuras. But you get the idea.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

I think you missed the point of what I trying to say. I'm not talking about my taste on mods, it was how most modify their vehicles today. You know how my TL and my wife's car looks like. There's no cheap, tacky stuff done to either one. I have Work VS-XX, so I get the wheel thing. Wife and I went to a local Optima meet. She told me one of the guys started ranting about wheels. His stand (like many today) was why spend 2-3K for a real set of wheels vs buying reps for a lot less since the car is a daily. To justify any of that logic become's an up hill battle. Time's have changed Jon, not many are going to invest that type of money anymore for anything quality. Oh and yes, Plasti-dip to others (I personally dislike it) is the best thing since sliced bread.

usdmJON

I'm not too good with putting avatars/usernames with cars. Im much better with faces and names. But yes your TL is super sweet. One of my favorites here. And your wife's optima is probably the one of the cleanest ones at the meet.

I personally enjoy a good wheel debate... or laugh. I would have enjoyed that debate with the guy at the Optima meet.

1. Chances are he actually said "2-3k" which is what most people start their ignorant arguments with. I would have laugh while I told him I paid half to a third of what he just claimed.

2. As I said. A rep may be cheaper. But when a rep bends you have to replace the full wheel for maybe $300. Something like Vossen would be like $500+ for the one wheel. Take my Work wheels, I bend an inner or outer and I can fix it for about $100 or buy a brand new lip for $200.

3. This one needs it's own mention.
Google search "evo crash xxr". Sift through the pics and you'll find the story originated here.
EVO IX vs. Fake Wheels = One FREAKED up CAR. Real vs Fake Wheels debate #2. - JDM Chicago-Japanese Car Community
If this story is true, and I believe it is, then the wheel failed while driving in normal driving conditions due to a previous incident creating a fracture somewhere unseen by the driver. The thing is. If these were legit FORGED wheels they would have bent instead of broken. This is why I stress forged wheels over anything cast. Even legit cast wheels. Though legit cast wheels will still hold up longer; no one can say here if legit cast wheels would have held better. Id put my money on it though. My forged wheels guaranteed would have held air and kept my car off the pavement.

4. Sheer looks/credibility. I cant say how often I see a sweet car with the owner getting in or out at a local starbucks or best buy. I HATE throwing them a compliment and they respond "yeah they are just some reps." Then they ask if my wheels are real and they get all fan boy. DUDE WORKS!! SO AWESOME!! WISH I COULD AFFORD SOME! You can!! Just save the money you would spend on reps and be patient. I think I waited about a year on my stock wheels before pulling the trigger on these Works. Best purchase I have made for my car IMO.



Lastly... As well with credibility in mind. I see some ballers here with GREAT taste in watches. These guys wouldnt be caught dead sporting replica watches. Well one was. Not sure if he ever sold those super reps or whatever he called them. Running fake wheels is like sporting a fake Rolex or buying your girl a fake tiffany bracelet. IMO fake wheels are no better than a fake watch. It takes a certain kind of person to tell themselves that fake shit is just as good as the real shit. And it takes a really shitty person to claim their fake shit is real. At least we dont have any of the latter here.

I do get people not wanting to spend a lot on wheels. I get that. But then you should play within your budget and buy some good looking OEM wheels verse a wheel that looks expensive but is cheap. Live within your means. Act your wage. Fake Volks are NOT acting your wage if you cant afford the real thing.

BEAR-AvHistory

The rep is still cheaper.

One - its not certain that it can't be fixed depends how bad the damage is on either wheel. Two - If the wheel is dead you can still kill & replace a number of them before you are up to the buy-in price for a single original wheel let alone the whole $3200 set.

Trying to pass off a rep as original is stupid. That said buying lightweight competition wheels for cars that will never see any completion does not make a lot of sense either.



17X9" 255 front (in picture) 17X10.5" 315 rear.

My wheels are reps, cost about $1000 a set, are rated for competition in the Challenge Car Series, come in sizes Taller/Wider than the originals - mine weigh 20lbs.

I randomly picked out a $1000 Volks VR G10 Because it was the first $1000 one I found that had weight info its listed at 22/25lbs size dependent.

Personally, I don't think how much you pay for a wheel means a whole lot. Have to wonder if the $400 Volks comes off the same production system as the $1000 ones.

Regardless as long as its safe & what you like buy it regardless of price.





FWIW the cast alloys on my Ranger 4X4 go hunting, beach running, Ski tripping & general parts chasing, hauling dirt, gravel etc for the past 15 years. Still hold air, no bends & still look good IMHO

usdmJON

Obviously. People get cast aluminum wheels fixed all day. I never said it was impossible to fix a bent cast wheel. But cast wheels have very little tolerance. They bend to a certain point then snap. Forged wheels will bend A LOT further before they fail completely.

Cast wheels tend to break like this


They bend slightly then snap. Once they snap they are not repairable.

Forged wheels have tolerance and not only bend much further but are much easier to bend back without snapping. Even if a cast wheel holds its structure while being bent, most shops wont attempt to bend them back as most will just snap and now it snapped in their hands.

Forged wheels bend like this...


Let me say I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "If the wheel is dead you can still kill & replace a number of them before you are up to the buy-in price for a single original wheel let alone the whole $3200 set."

I'll try to bear with you though. Lets say my friend bought vossens that broke the same way the above wheels with BMW center caps did. Vossen is not going to help him as it was his fault he ran over a pot hole or hit the curb or whatever he did. So my friend returns to CarID where he bought his Vossens. After all he wants the same exact wheel and bought from them before. Buying from them again makes the most sense. I can see to buy one Vossen, 19x8.5 is $499.

Now, if they were forged, they would not have snapped and instead bent like the 1st or 2nd forged wheel I posted. That can be bent back for $100-200. Less than half the price of someone buying a brand new wheel. Even if the forged lip is bent beyond repair. It only costs $200 for a brand new inner or outer. Not $499 like one new Vossen. That being said. Vossen is on the step side. Still going to set you back around $300 for other rep brands though. If anyone is going to sit there and tell me you paid $150 per wheel I have nothing to say to you.

I am not sure what you are referring to when you say $3200. My forged Works were $1000 and the cast Vossens Im hypothetically talking about cost $1996.

So like I said, to initially buy reps, yes they are cheaper. But in the long run, if you damage a rep, it could cost you much more than replacing or fixing the lip of a forged wheel. Look at the Evo I mentioned. One rep cost him a few thousand in repairs.


It may not make A LOT of sense but it makes enough. Light weight wheels are a great performance boost for any car. Even a daily driver. Shaving off unpsrung weight can really make a car go from feeling like a boat to a go kart. I dont suggest people spend $3200 on wheels for a daily driver like you mentioned. But I suggest they spend more than they do on reps... or the same they do on Vossens but actually spend it on a forged wheel.


That is awesome. It isnt often you can find a rep with better specs. It does happen though. I can say then only reps Ive ever owned fell in this category. Mugen NR reps from Konig. Same gravity cast wheel design. But the Mugens were heavier and only available in one size. My Konigs came in more sizes and much lighter and cheaper. This isnt often though and cant be said about 99% of the people running reps here.


I... er.... what? The Volks VR G10 are great wheels. They are forged. $1000 would be a good price for them. If I saw them for $400 that is either a steal or fake. Volks do NOT go for $400. Id love to see an ad where they are because Id buy them tomorrow and flip them to someone that knows what they are.

Reputable companies DO make cast wheels. Not sure if any Volks are cast. But Work has plenty of cheaper cast options available. So maybe you saw someone selling some old cast volks. Id like to see the Volks youve seen for $400 as I assume they are NOT real volks.



And FWIW the cast alloys on your Ranger have huge beefy tires to protect them. Trade those huge tires for some 224/40s and see what happens to your cast allows during these excursions.

BEAR-AvHistory

http://www.wheelplususa.com/wheels/Volk_Racing/

CE28 Club Racer $380
CE28N Bronze $454

Think I would buy wheel insurance before buying a $1000 wheel on the unlikely event I am going to wreck it. Next wheel I bust will be the first since 1959. Pictures don't mean much without knowing how they got that way.

There can be crappy forged wheels as well as cast. Forging alone is not a guarantee that it will be a good wheel.

Simple math:

Your example used a $300 wheel that needed to be replaced when a forged one would cost $100 to repair.

Buy $300 Wheel, Replace it 3X cause it can't be fixed Total cost $1200

Buy $1000 Wheel, Repair it 2X @ $100 each Total cost $1200

You can replace the entire set of $300 Wheels for the cost of a single $1000 Wheel with 2 repairs. Then there is the other $3000 to buy the rest of the wheels.

Not sure un-sprung weight of an extra few pounds per axel amounts to a hill of beans on a car like the TLX. Be unusual to see 1 in a 100 ever do a track day.

On the racing section here see a few guys take TL's mostly 3G to the drag strip. Have seen maybe 4 posts since 2006 where a members TL or TLX had been on a road course. Last was a 4G about 2 years ago

I would accept that they are 90+% visual items on a TLX, but $4000+ Wheels, not counting $1000+ for decent tires, on a $35/40K car seems like an awful stretch.

Its called the right tool for the job at hand. Don't think anything would happen to the wheels because summer tires would not get me far enough into the dirt damage the wheels. That aside, the castings are still good, not porous & hold air with only seasonal adjustments.

usdmJON

The difference in price you see with those Volks are because they are listing starting prices. A Volk wheel that is 17-19in may start out at 450 a wheel. But if you find a wheel in 19in only the starting price will be more like 700. For example, the CE28N starts at 450. The 450$ CE28N is actuallt a 14in wheel. The 17s however run $836.

So that should explain why you see some just under 1000 and some at 500. Also the site lists both forged and cast wheels. Cast obviously cost much less. Which also explains why prices can flux so much.

I think we have a little miscommunication here. I havent mention any wheels for $1000. My wheels were $1000 for all 4 if thats what you were referring to.

You are right pictures dont mean much. But there are literally hundreds more. Typing in "bent forged" verse "bent cast" will give you an idea how cast wheels break verse how forged wheels break. Or better yet just check out a video made by the authentic wheel manufacturers if you cant take my word or these pictures for it.



Really? Anyone can claim what we are told is not what we are getting. Why do you spend extra money for any product or service? Because you see the benefit. I see the benefit and know forged wheels are stronger than cast wheels. So I know my forged wheels made by Work are stronger than cast wheels made by Work and other companies on par with Work Wheels quality.

And this is exactly where that miscommunication is a big deal. I never said it was a thousand dollar wheel. I said it was a thousand dollars for FOUR wheels.

300 isnt a good number because that would be 1200 for a set of 4. Which to me is crazy for reps. But hey thats still cheaper than Vossens.

Lets use a real example. Konig Integrams. Good looking replica wheel by a company I personally would suggest to anyone that is hell bent on reps.

19x9.5, good size for the TLX, goes for $252.30. So we'll say 250.

4 of them brand new in box go for $1000 even. Thats what I expect for cast reps.
My 4 Work Wheels went for $1000. That's for 4 multipiece forged wheels. Same price.

If you bend one of the Konigs it is going to cost you another $250 to replace.
If I bend my work wheel in a pot hole chances are I can fix it for $100-200 or literally get a brand new lip in any size I want for only $200 brand new in box. That extra $50 is more than enough to strip and rebuild that one wheel.

So in the end, completely replacing a forged barrel will cost the same as completely replacing an entire rep wheel. But chances are you can just fix the forged barrel for half the price of a rep wheel.

Make more sense now? I wasnt talking a set of $4000 wheels here. My set was only $1000. Same price as most BNIB reps. Cheaper than Vossens but way stronger unless we are talking Vossen Precision line. Then its just a strong.

I think you would be surprised. Unsprung weight is felt more in handling. Even with spirited canyon driving you would be able to feel it. Talk to the Mazda guys running 14in enkei rpf1s. I hear those are one of the best bang for your buck mods in a car thats all about handling. I agree maybe not so much in the TLX but the theory still holds air.

And again. We just had a little miscommunication. I am not suggesting anyone buy $4000 wheels. Mine for $1000. I suggest people spend about $2000 for wheels+good tires. You can do this with second hand legit forged wheels or brand new cast reps.

Id take a second hand Rolex over a brand new Armani watch any day.

usdmJON

Yeah I get it. I was making a dumb point to rebuttal a dumb point.

We are talking about cast wheels on cars. Cars typically have much smaller tires so they dont protect the cast wheel as well. A truck with beefy tires will adsorb all the impact in the tire where as a car with a lower profile tire will transfer more of the impact to the cast wheel which can more easily result in a fracture.

Please tell me you understood that already.

BEAR-AvHistory

Fun debate but at the end of the day your whole story comes down to you may bend a wheel & the wheel you may bend my not be fixable. Two very big maybes & I think is a big reach to try to make a case on it.

Since millions of cars are rolling off the lines with cast alloy wheels & 40 or less ratio tires (BMW pumps 48K+ wheels into the market with 3 series alone every month) & there is not a flood of cast wheels inundating the junk yards. I don't believe you made your case based on you can get the fixed.

To me a better answer would be if someone were to say I like that set of $4000 Volks & I can't duplicate the "look" with a rep, I have the money to spend, go for it.

Be interesting to see in real life how many people lost wheels in a non-crash event.

usdmJON

Well sadly no matter how expensive a wheel is rep companies will make reps of them.

My "case" is simply my opinion... man.

I for one have never broken a wheel or needed one fixed. Not once. Cast wheels hold great. I get that. Forged simply is stronger. I get wanting that extra security is nothing but opinion.

But when it comes down to BNIB Konigs for $1000 or my authentic forged Work split rims for the same price? I'll take the authentic forged wheels all day. Most people would but most people assume that is not possible or are lazy or dont have the time.... or have found a better deal like your comp reps.

SinCityTLX

That and reps never do look as good because they run generic offsets, and that is critical. The finish is never as good, and the weight alone makes the car not drive as well as a forged wheel.

What is funny is watching people with expensive cars crack of money for nice wheels, then use crap tires........what's the point.

Mr Hyde

Car Talk is thataway folks. Back to the TLX please..

usdmJON

Seriously? No one is even talking in this thread. Good grief. This fucking guy.

BEAR-AvHistory

I expect its the money involved instead of laziness. We all like nice looking wheels but some have more disposable income.

Also agree that a lot of people go in blind as to what is available in either forged or cast wheels for their car.

Understand its your opinion, no problem with that, varied opinions are what makes the net so interesting..

BEAR-AvHistory

Not all reps are created the same. Mine have the correct offset for very wide tires F255 & R315 with the outer edge of the tire/wheel combo right at the wheel well lip. Top quality finish shown in the cars picture & they weigh 20lbs.

There are other sets available for guys running narrower tires or different diameters 15" 17" or"18 each with multiple widths for different tire combos & body styles.

A blanket statement on either type of production methods is never a good plan.

Agree on tires. The best available tire for how the car is to be driven should be a first buy for anyone. No matter what you do to a car to get it to look & perform better can be wasted with crappy tires.

IIRC the TLX tires are built for mileage & should be something to look at before you settle on a wheel to mount them on for better handling. Might knock the mileage down a bit but will give you a more enjoyable ride.

On my 335is the tires were pulled in the first 1500 miles. They were up graded to F245 X R275 non-RFT's. 135Is has the same tires but in 18" not 19". Kept the BMW M style 313 wheels on both cars.




IMHO since the thread is about modifying or not modifying the TLX & wheels are a very common mod the posts about wheels are not off topic.

The different opinions & info brought out could either save a guy a bunch of money or help him understand why in some cases you need to spend to get the best result. Also things like tire size & wheel backspacing are important in not buying the wrong item for a good instillation.

A similar thread in the 3G form let me know I could put 255's Square on my TL 6MT replacing the stock narrower tires, which I did,think the were 235? square.

Mr Hyde

Probably because they have nothing TLX related to say which is the forum this thread is on. Just because a thread is not active doesn't mean it can be taken off-topic.

Watch your tone, or you will earn a little vacation. This is your one, and only warning.

My take is that this thread lost pertinence to the TLX quite a ways back, and became a general thread on wheels for which there are more appropriate forums

usdmJON

Believe me man. I have seen enough "real vs fake" wheels threads to know we dont need one here.

But go ahead. Kill a good RESPECTFUL conversation. This website has so little respectful conversations going back and forth Id think a mod would be happy to see this one continue.

Frankly there was some good info going back and forth here. More info than has or will go through this specific thread I am sure.

TacoBello

Jon...

TheAcAvenger

*checks tlx board to see if there is any aftermarket support...

... discovers lots of wheel choices and not much else.*

the thread is ironically on topic as a response to the thread title

SlaammedILX

Godspeed Project has coilovers coming out for the TLX very soon!

djturk66

Haven't read all the comments yet but, here is my POV to OP's comment

-Acura attracts more grown, mature consumers while the other brands you mentioned attract a younger crowd who are eager to "mod"

-Also the market size, all those brands are world wide while Acura is only North America if I'm correct

Quandry

Partly correct. Acura is North America, Mexico, China, and Russia, but those are likely not big mods markets.

BEAR-AvHistory

I think you would be very surprised at the ages & backgrounds of many guys doing track days & Airport runs in very expensive cars that have been modified. Am using "Mature" as an age definer not a frame of mind one.

Since its verboten to talking racing here I would just say I enjoyed a very spirited run with an Orange Lamborghini driven by a non-youth on Sunday.

djturk66

Well I'm a 20 y/o (I know it says 26, I cant figure out how to change that), and the TLX is my fourth Acura, my brother is a BMW guy and I prefer Acura everyday. I would love to mod my car, but it being leased is turning me away. I was just pointing at Acura being a niche market for companies to invest in compared to the other guys.

But I'm young and new to the scene what do I know right?

djturk66

I meant car manufacturers by "the other guys".

BEAR-AvHistory

Understand. But if the other guys include BMW IIRC its second only to the Miata in the number of cars on track days & national club racing series.

My club "Tarheels" has a couple of trackdays each year along with a number of drivers schools at VIR. The basic performance tuner JB4 has sold over 15,000 units. I was a beta tester for them when I had the 335is. Still have one in the 135is.

Personally I believe if Honda went turbo with its V6 they would move right up on the modified list. My TL 6MT was a good performer in its day & had some nice addons including a supercharger. Mine did not get any performance enhancements because I had another car to work on but it did get 255 summer tires on all 4 wheels.

You still see a number of the 3G at the drag strip but that all went away when the 4G was released.

usdmJON

Go to instagram and look up the account TLXClubOfAmerica

I think a lot of you will be surprised by the amount of modded TLXs. My favorite is a female owned bagged dark blue tlx on i think polished 5 spoke CCWs.

Lots of bagged tlxs. Lots of vossens too.

usdmJON

Well now that I am off work... from one of those instagram viewing websites...
























More here
@tlxclubofamerica Instagram photos | Websta (Webstagram)

Obviously this site gets the shit end of the car modding stick. These forums are pretty toxic and it doesnt surprise to know a lot of people just dont care to waste their time here.

Me "Yeah Ive got more pics on Azine!"
Random people I meet "Oh you mean Acura-Tech? hahaha Well whats your IG tag?"

tlxsteve

Cool, but I run over stuff on the highway. Too low for my commute.