Majofo

It's a joke alright.

Majofo

4G TL more sporty than a 550i..

credibility out the fucking door.

TacoBello

See, there we go again. You're totally uninformed if that's truly what you believe. Crappy "excels" haven't been built in 25 years. That was the OLD Hyundai. That Hyundai literally disappeared, in terms of auto manufacturing. Hyundai came back- still the same shipping company, but this time they decided not to screw around, and do things right.

Guess what, mitsubishis are cheap and tout a ten year warranty. And yet no one is buying those pieces of garbage. You're looking at it wrong- Hyundais don't mostly sell because of low cost. They mostly sell because of great value.

It's easy to judge because of past history. Yeah Hyundai was crap. Look at the civic. The 2013 was the shittiest civic built in terms of quality and reliability. They simply suck. But it's riding on its own history's coat tails and yet again was a "top selling" car. Now Hyundai is fighting tooth and nail to break away from its history- no easy task- but they're convincing people, one car sale at a time.

CARLOS10

Just curious, but what others car have you owned ???

TacoBello

Exactly. And Harley's are problem covered pieces of shit, yet they sell like hot cakes.

You're 100% right about Hyundai. I think in another decade or so, if they keep going like they are, they'll shake that stigma off.

Stew4HD

You went to all that trouble of "schooling" me yet you backed up what I said.

Reputations are built and history is a huge factor, even past. Dodge, Ford, GM still suffers from that to an extent because of the 80's-90's.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I'm a Honda Guy - I've owned mostly Accords since I bought my first 1984 Accord LX hatchback when I graduated from college. I'm *biased* towards them because of the great experience (not perfect but great) I've had with them all through the years!

TacoBello

Right, but you're essentially looking at two different companies and calling them the same one. It's not like that.

Also, dodge, gm, ford are still pieces of junk. Don't be fooled by ford's commercials where they claim they're now better than ever and new and improved! I have a friend who manages one of the largest ford dealerships in town and he says they're still the same. Same with two friends who actually work on them. They're designs are nice these days, but reliability?

I can't speak for GM, but my last company had a fleet of dodge trucks and man, I wouldn't wish those things upon anyone. Constant issues with new trucks.

smoooov

Actually Harleys being unreliable POS is history. Anyone who knows about modern Harleys wouldn't say that so you have just given a perfect example of bias based on history.

saturno_v

I do not hang my hat into anything....I draw my own conclusions.

I know exactly what you mean....and more often than not the shopper opinions are not based on rationality or researched facts.....the opinion of a 5 Series shopper that does not even stop at a Hyundai showroom to look at a Genesis has no value whatsoever....it's all prejudice and brand snobbery.

Non necessarily true....these cars do offer some unique aspects/engine combos, etc....as a matter of fact, 15 years ago if you did want certain characteristics, going German was the only way to go....few Japanese products made the cut...forget the Americans.

You sure about that?? I'm not....I had the "pleasure" to rent for more than two weeks this September a 5 Series touring diesel during my vacation in Europe...when I travel there I end up always with German iron because they are the only brands that the rental car companies carry in the segment I usually rent (luxury/large cars). Granted, it was a semi-stripper (not even leather seats) but some basic plastic elements are the same, regardless if it's a 520d or an M5...and let me tell you that I keep not been impressed that much....I drive a 5 Series often in a way or another.
Now if we are talking about the Lexus GS it's another story...that car is in league of its own when it comes to materials and fit and finish. clearly above the TL (we almost got a GS350 F-Sport this September for my wife and eventually we bought the Q50 Sport) or a 5 Series for that matter.
Same for the Infiniti M which has magnificent interiors despite its age.
The TL interiors compete extremely well with a mid optioned 5 Series.
The Genesis cabin is extremely well executed with high quality materials.


To each its own opinion...I do find the 5 Series not that agile and quite piggish...the TL SH-AWD is more agile and nimble despite its inherent understeer that gets mitigated extremely well ....considering that the current 5 Series end up almost always at the bottom of the pile in comparos where it participate when it comes to handling...

Now If I could have had the straight 6 BMW turbo in my TL I would have been in sport sedan heaven....I love that engine....and the BMW ZF 8 Speed is clearly on another planet compared to the sluggish antiquated TL slushbox...but when it comes to a stick, the Acura "row your own" left the BMW in the dust for feeling and crispness.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I would disagree with you. If someone works hard and reaches a level of income that affords them with the ability to buy some expensive toys there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel like they're cruising in "the ultimate driving machine" as opposed to a Hyundai - even if it's all marketing mumbo jumbo at some point. I can buy a $200 watch that will look great and last me for years and years but it won't give me the feeling that wearing a Rolex does.

If value was the issue we would all be driving Accord's.

saturno_v

Probably I did not explain myself well.....what I mean is that you can buy whatever you want but I'm not going to accept a criticism and assumption from someone that has not even set a foot in a car...let me give you a specific example, the opinion of a BMW owner that says "Genesis?? Hyundai garbage", and never actually even saw the car is worthless.

I always read the comparison Timex-Rolex when it comes to mass produced German cars.....no, a mass produced BMW or MB is not the the automotive equivalent of a Rolex (and Rolex is not even the top watchmaker anyway)

The parallel Timex-Rolex = Genesis-5 Series is beyond ridiculous.

Glashub

Bimmerfest thoughts on Genesis 2015 Hyundai Genesis (or Kia K900) - Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

hddnav

If you had 2 million dollars to spend on a house, would you buy a house in a high-class low-crime gated prestigious neighborhood with neighbors who are similarly affluent, or would you buy the nicest house on the block in a middle-class neighborhood, but still have to worry about pedestrian things like street crime and cars speeding down your street?

Would you want your address to show that you've attained a certain level of success in life?

This is the same kind of question when it comes to whether a person with $50k would buy a BMW, Acura, or Hyundai. A BMW would be that nice gated neighborhood, the Acura is your middle class neighborhood, while the Hyundai is that huge brand-new house at the end of your crime ridden block (maybe not quite that bad, but I'm exaggerating for effect).

The Hyundai, no matter how nice, reminds me way too much of having the biggest house in a crappy area.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Ah - okay - we're in agreement there.

Question though - why do you think they took the Hyundai badge off the car and went with the Genesis badge?

CARLOS10

Mercedes, BMW , Rolex , Ferrari etc were expensive since his first model.
All these brand means rich people. Timex cant come up with a 45K watch because its gold and diamond and and pretend rich people to buy his product.
The same apply to car, to everything. How much worth the MERCEDES BENZ
or FERRARI brand name alone ??. Its all in the brand after all.

fsttyms1

Not necessarily true, I might still say that. I have gone with my trailer to pick my friend up 3 times in 2 years for break downs on his new HD

fsttyms1

And i would disagree with your assumption. Not all are like that. My dad could walk into the BMW dealership and pay in cash for a fully loaded 7 series. He was set to get the 5 series when i pointed out the Genesis. I made him go look at it. He left the dealership with it. The 3 people i know with Genesis sedans all could do the same and they all bought the Genesis over the Germans. None of them "Feel" like they arent driving the best

hddnav

No one is saying that **everyone** is ultra materialistic and shallow, but there's no denying that this trait becomes more apparent the higher in income you go. Especially for the newly wealthy from paper money (stocks).

In my geographic location in the country (SF Bay Area -Silicon Valley), Teslas are a dime a dozen (see at least 5 to 10 every single day on my commute), BMW's and Lexus' are the Honda Civics and Accords of those with generous stock options, and Prius' are the economy cars of the worker bees (the have nots, you could say). There is no shortage of pretentiousness here, but, as much as you may detest them, they spend huge amounts of money.

Like it or not, image sells, and lots of profit is generated from it. The 5-series buyer is not going to be buying a Genesis, unless he or she is very budget sensitive.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

Of course not everyone is concerned with the brand cachet - the Genesis sells between two to three thousand per month (not sure on the breakdown between coupe and sedan) according to click -> Hyundai Genesis Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR So clearly they're reaching some people.

I should also clarify I'm not implying those who would buy a BMW for the badge are shallow mindless brand snobs. I do, however, think you get a different feel from driving The Ultimate Driving Machine vs driving a Hyundai. Just like you get a different feel from wearing a Rolex vs a nice Timex. Or wearing an expensive custom tailored suit vs a very nice off the rack suit. After all - there's a reason why people pay crazy dollars to buy that stuff - right?

CARLOS10

Every people leasing a TLX can lease a BMW too , so your argument is vague.

smoooov

Well no machine is perfect and I don't know your friends circumstances but I guarantee a lot more riders have gone from metric cruisers to Harleys than Harleys to metric.

I actually like the new Genesis sedan. It's a good looking car but it definitely doesn't appeal to me on an emotional ("wow that's really nice!") level and so I would probably never buy one.

saturno_v

People that do because of the badge they are shallow, mindless snob....but there are obviously other reasons to prefer a BMW over a Genesis...

Not that much anymore especially with the new Genesis....granted the big Hyundai is still dialed a bit more for comfort than sportiness compared to a 5 Series...but this is not necessarily a bad thing among shoppers in that segment.

I think you are still bringing the wrong comparison...there is nothing "tailored" about a mass produced BMW...if you insist on the watch analogy, at most, I can concede a nice Timex vs. a Seiko.

A Genesis is not that cheap anymore....hit the option list and the price zoom quickly toward the 50K barrier and more....and they do not seem very inclined to discounts at least in my area....


I would say that if you can comfortably afford a Genesis you can afford a BMW as well.....especially if you lease with the screaming deals BMW offers nowadays.

CARLOS10

Crap story. These stories abound 5 years ago during Hyundai honeymoon.
Nobody who can afford a Rolex end up with a Timex , nobody who can afford
a 5th avenue penthouse buy a house at Harlem.
Another fact rich people dont take a purchase decision so quickly much less
when that mean a status downgrade. And Cars are the status king.

TacoBello

Let me guess, it was HD owners who told you that? I know people who continually have issues with their <5 year old HDs.

thassett

Thank you for posting this. After reading through this Bimmerfest thread, I thought there was a lot of good discussion, thought, and opinion.

Stew4HD

Honestly, I don't think anyone here would say the Genesis is a bad car at all. It's quite nice for what it is. I have looked at them closely when I was getting impatient about the delayed delivery of my car. I don't like the bland styling and large car feel to it (merely my opinion) but it's a very good buy. I'd never put down anyone that buys one.

My interjections were about the unfavorable 'past' that Hyundai has that only time will put behind them.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

I think my comparison is spot on - you're just being pedantic

Think of it this way - why does someone buy a Rolex as opposed to a Seiko?

smoooov

I've owned Harleys for the last 15 years. My current bike is an 06 that I bought new and it has been very reliable. My friends Harleys have been very reliable. I've been on a Harley forum for the last 7 years and have read all kinds of opinions, compliments and complaints. No bike or car is perfect and anything mechanical can have issues but Harleys are much much better than they were in say the 70s and 80s and are now just as reliable as any other bike believe it or not.

CARLOS10

Hyundai octuber Genesis sales were 2,325. A mix of coupes and sedans.
Account more than half of secretaries buying low end coupes.
Mercedes , BMW, Audi , Lexus websites member , all of them will give the Genesis a shot as his next car.Bull shit.
Talk is one thing, and pull the tiger is another.If all these word were truth the
Genesis should be selling 25,000 cars monthly.

TacoBello

^ lol. What luxury car sells 25000 units per month.

CARLOS10

Sum all the people saying the Genesis is a Nice car and are considering one.
Sum all the people saying they will never buy a Acura.
Take your time and surf hundreds of cars blogs , sum and you will get the
numbers. With all these nice review just 2,000 cars sold monthly.???
Acura with all negative feedback selling almost 6,000 TLX ???

ScottLong

I agree with your comparisons. Of course we all know people driving BMWS are not going to be the ones wearing Rolexs........... More like a lot of Seikos and Hamiltons.

ScottLong

Another thing is, Hyundai is gaining a lot of popularity with the younger rich kids.
I go to UC Irvine and come from the San Gabriel Valley. I have began to see a decent number of Hyundai Coupes driven by kids who I know 100% can easily afford a Lexus IS or a BMW 328i.

saturno_v

I recall years ago an interview with a Hyundai executive that said exactly this.....they do not aim to turn around so much current luxury buyers already set in their own way...they hope to build brand credibility and status with the younger crowd as they grow...

fsttyms1

Crap story.

fsttyms1

Yea, ok. Nice try.

ScottLong

I don't want to get into a Brand debate but there are several very very large gaps between Mercedes and Ferrari. Not even in the same class.

Mercedes and BMW are in the same 'Tier' as Audi and Lexus. Higher overall but still in the same tier..........as judged by every single comparison worth anything.

Nobody is comparing any Mercedes to a Ferrari outside of that niche SLS
The Lexus LFA technically competes against the Bugatti and Lambo as well.....nobody will ever put Lexus in that same Tier.

Even the most expensive Mercedes mainstream car(S550 or S63 AMG) wouldn't even be looked at by a Lambo Driver.

saturno_v

No...I'm being precise....there are $10.000 Seikos you know that right??
But there are good quality entry level Seiko watches easily affordable to the public that somewhat overlap the most expensive Timexes.
BMW is in the same position....affordable entry level volume models and luxury models (not hyper luxury)
BMW still has a "price band" they have to stay within or public would not buy......you are not going to see a $200.000+ BMW, not in the near future.

Your "regular" Rolexes are the equivalent of the (if we want to keep with the cars-watch analogy) of entry level Ferraris, Lambos, Bentley, etc...

Then you have the exclusive "one of a kind" limited edition cars from these brands (for example the Enzo or La Ferrari) or the Bugatti Veyron....these are the equivalent of the "sky is the limit" watches.

ScottLong

Who are you to say what's what? I grew up in San Marino and is attending a University with rich kids. I know at least 5 different families within my parents circles that could easily drive a LS or a 7 Series. They are driving the Infiniti M37, the C250, and Acura MDX.


For you to say that 'rich people' feel the need to show off their wealth in cars is absurdity. And it makes me think you have not been around that many people with money.

I'm not saying rich people will go from a 80,000 dollar car to a economy car...but there are a lot of people in the GS/5/A6/E CLASS range who would seriously look at the Genesis Sedan.