This is complete HORSESHIT!
07-01-2014, 05:47 PM
#1
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
This is complete HORSESHIT!
Fricking A, this is completely ridiculous.
For those following my thread, my TL has been consuming oil at rate over 1L every 1000 miles. I've been complying with my local dealership, and said issue is well documented by the dealership and here on AZ.
Had an appt today with the dealership, and I was under the impression they were going to fix the issue by first taking apart the engine. All I need to do was go in, get a loaner, and drive off back to the office. Done.
So today I go in, I sign the loaner papers, and the tech tries to pull a fast one on me. He wanted me to authorize $129 repairs just in case it's not engine/powertrain issue. I questioned the amount, saying I shouldn't be responsible for $129. My TL is under the 6yr/70k powertrain warranty, and said issue should be covered by warranty.
I ask the tech, if it's not powertrain, what is it then? He gives some excuse about if I don't change the oil for 15,000 miles, something about sludge buildup. I tell him, I have oil change records, should not be an issue. Tech goes away, talks to the service manager.
Manager goes through the same b.s., now says it's not $129 I need to preauth but $700 for "ripping the engine out" in case it's not a powertrain issue. Again he pulls the same bullshit on me, saying if it's not powertrain, I would be responsible for labor. If it is powertrain, it would be a warranty cover. Again I ask him I have the records to show my past year oil changes, what could be a non engine /powertrain issue? He gives me the same bs about oil changes, and says if I'm "confident I've been doing the oil changes on time" it should be a warranty coverage. Fricking A, I'm confident this oil issue is not my fault and this dealership is dinking me around.
I then call Acura Client Relations. Guy on the phone was completely useless. Tells me the same b.s., and he couldn't give me a reason why oil consumption issue would not be a powertrain issue. I ask the guy repeatedly point blank "Educate me sir. I've already done the oil consumption test at the request of the dealer. If it's not engine or powertrain issue, what could it be? What NON-powertrain issue could cause the car to consume oil?"
The guy had no answer but continues to side with the dealer repeatedly, and refuse to talk to the dealer and refuse to remedy the situation. At that point I was completely FURIOUS. I tell him last time I authorized repairs "in case it was not powertrain related" this dealership claimed the oil sensor was defective and need to be replaced. And of course, oil sensor was not power train item, and I had it replaced at my expense. I tell him I should have to authorize $700 repair, b/c my gut feeling is that if I do, they'll come back with some bullshit response and charge my $700 for a non powertrain issue.
Fricking A. I left the dealership in my TL and drove back to the office. Complete waste of time. Instead of a 5 min visit, it turned into a useless 1 hour debacle.
What the hell is a warranty good for if Acura won't honor it? And I still don't fricking get why the dealership wants to hold me responsible for the engine eval? Clearly the engine is consuming oil, and engine falls under powertrain.
Any ideas on what to do next would be helpful.
And Acura wonders why their sales are slipping and I'm a nay against the TLX and its 2 new transmissions. Warranty my ass. Every single dam excuse will be done to place blame on the consumer.
Acura can go to hell.
For those following my thread, my TL has been consuming oil at rate over 1L every 1000 miles. I've been complying with my local dealership, and said issue is well documented by the dealership and here on AZ.
Had an appt today with the dealership, and I was under the impression they were going to fix the issue by first taking apart the engine. All I need to do was go in, get a loaner, and drive off back to the office. Done.
So today I go in, I sign the loaner papers, and the tech tries to pull a fast one on me. He wanted me to authorize $129 repairs just in case it's not engine/powertrain issue. I questioned the amount, saying I shouldn't be responsible for $129. My TL is under the 6yr/70k powertrain warranty, and said issue should be covered by warranty.
I ask the tech, if it's not powertrain, what is it then? He gives some excuse about if I don't change the oil for 15,000 miles, something about sludge buildup. I tell him, I have oil change records, should not be an issue. Tech goes away, talks to the service manager.
Manager goes through the same b.s., now says it's not $129 I need to preauth but $700 for "ripping the engine out" in case it's not a powertrain issue. Again he pulls the same bullshit on me, saying if it's not powertrain, I would be responsible for labor. If it is powertrain, it would be a warranty cover. Again I ask him I have the records to show my past year oil changes, what could be a non engine /powertrain issue? He gives me the same bs about oil changes, and says if I'm "confident I've been doing the oil changes on time" it should be a warranty coverage. Fricking A, I'm confident this oil issue is not my fault and this dealership is dinking me around.
I then call Acura Client Relations. Guy on the phone was completely useless. Tells me the same b.s., and he couldn't give me a reason why oil consumption issue would not be a powertrain issue. I ask the guy repeatedly point blank "Educate me sir. I've already done the oil consumption test at the request of the dealer. If it's not engine or powertrain issue, what could it be? What NON-powertrain issue could cause the car to consume oil?"
The guy had no answer but continues to side with the dealer repeatedly, and refuse to talk to the dealer and refuse to remedy the situation. At that point I was completely FURIOUS. I tell him last time I authorized repairs "in case it was not powertrain related" this dealership claimed the oil sensor was defective and need to be replaced. And of course, oil sensor was not power train item, and I had it replaced at my expense. I tell him I should have to authorize $700 repair, b/c my gut feeling is that if I do, they'll come back with some bullshit response and charge my $700 for a non powertrain issue.
Fricking A. I left the dealership in my TL and drove back to the office. Complete waste of time. Instead of a 5 min visit, it turned into a useless 1 hour debacle.
What the hell is a warranty good for if Acura won't honor it? And I still don't fricking get why the dealership wants to hold me responsible for the engine eval? Clearly the engine is consuming oil, and engine falls under powertrain.
Any ideas on what to do next would be helpful.
And Acura wonders why their sales are slipping and I'm a nay against the TLX and its 2 new transmissions. Warranty my ass. Every single dam excuse will be done to place blame on the consumer.
Acura can go to hell.
07-01-2014, 06:10 PM
#2
I understand your frustration, but just think from their point of view for a second. This is a case of asymmetric information. You have information that they don't. If you have all your service records and you're confident enough that it is a powertrain issue, then there is no problems. The dealer isn't denying a legitimate warranty issue, they are just asking you to cover their labour costs if the issue wasn't due to warranty.
Simply said, can you imagine if everyone came into the dealership with the same issue, and only one out of ten was legit? They would take apart 9 out of 10 engines without recovering their costs from warranty claim. If it's a legit warranty issue (and you have more information than them remember), there shouldn't be a problem. They're simply saying if they determined the issue to be non-warrantable, then they can recover their costs.
Simply said, can you imagine if everyone came into the dealership with the same issue, and only one out of ten was legit? They would take apart 9 out of 10 engines without recovering their costs from warranty claim. If it's a legit warranty issue (and you have more information than them remember), there shouldn't be a problem. They're simply saying if they determined the issue to be non-warrantable, then they can recover their costs.
Last edited by loulinjai; 07-01-2014 at 06:15 PM.
07-01-2014, 06:18 PM
#3
I understand your frustration, but just think from their point of view for a second. This is a case of asymmetric information. You have information that they don't. If you have all your service records and you're confident enough that it is a powertrain issue, then there is no problems. The dealer isn't denying a legitimate warranty issue, they are just asking you to cover their labour costs if the issue wasn't due to warranty.
Simply said, can you imagine if everyone came into the dealership with the same issue, and only one out of ten was legit? They would take apart 9 out of 10 engines without recovering their costs from warranty claim. If it's a legit warranty issue (and you have more information than them remember), there shouldn't be a problem. They're simply saying if they determined the issue to be non-warrantable, then they can recover their costs.
Simply said, can you imagine if everyone came into the dealership with the same issue, and only one out of ten was legit? They would take apart 9 out of 10 engines without recovering their costs from warranty claim. If it's a legit warranty issue (and you have more information than them remember), there shouldn't be a problem. They're simply saying if they determined the issue to be non-warrantable, then they can recover their costs.
If its a fact that the vehicle is not functioning properly, it is up to them to decide if its covered or not and not leave it up to this "maybe its covered, maybe its not" bullshit. If nobody knows, then the dealer should bare the risk of finding out.
07-01-2014, 06:20 PM
#4
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
I understand your frustration, but just think from their point of view for a second. This is a case of asymmetric information. You have information that they don't. If you have all your service records and you're confident enough that it is a powertrain issue, then there is no problems. The dealer isn't denying a legitimate warranty issue, they are just asking you to cover their labour costs if the issue wasn't due to warranty.
Simply said, can you imagine if everyone came into the dealership with the same issue, and only one out of ten was legit? They would take apart 9 out of 10 engines without recovering their costs from warranty claim. If it's a legit warranty issue (and you have more information than them remember), there shouldn't be a problem. They're simply saying if they determined the issue to be non-warrantable, then they can recover their costs.
Simply said, can you imagine if everyone came into the dealership with the same issue, and only one out of ten was legit? They would take apart 9 out of 10 engines without recovering their costs from warranty claim. If it's a legit warranty issue (and you have more information than them remember), there shouldn't be a problem. They're simply saying if they determined the issue to be non-warrantable, then they can recover their costs.
Last time I authorized a charge, they told me it was a oil sensor problem, which concidentally, is a not a powertrain issue. Bullshit. They've been playing me from the start.
And what the hell does my confidence have to do with this? I've been confident from the start that the engine is consuming oil, and where has it gotten me? No where.
You sound suspiciously like someone who works for Acura.
Last edited by docboy; 07-01-2014 at 06:23 PM.
07-01-2014, 06:52 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
I would be mad too. That's pretty BS.
Is there a different dealership in your area? Bring copies of your oil change records next time as well. I, like you, don't understand under what circumstances oil consumption is not powertrain issue.
Is there a different dealership in your area? Bring copies of your oil change records next time as well. I, like you, don't understand under what circumstances oil consumption is not powertrain issue.
07-01-2014, 07:03 PM
#6
Stay Out Of the Left Lane
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^+1 Was going to suggest the same in terms of potentially finding another dealer.
07-01-2014, 07:46 PM
#7
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
2 other dealerships are just too far away.
I may end up calling one of the other dealership's service dept and see if they want me to "authorize" a $700 fee. I'd be willing to go elsewhere if they can remedy the situation without holding me hostage for money.
Funny thing is, hanging in the service tech of the local dealership's service dept is a banner of "Acura Client Service Award." Award my ass.
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07-01-2014, 07:50 PM
#8
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Complete bs. They need to figure out what the problem is on their dime. What's their problem. They get reimbursed for warranty claims.
07-01-2014, 08:30 PM
#12
tell them your going to take it to your local tv consumer advocate reporter
"oil sensor problem"? what is that supposed to mean?
the car either uses oil or it doesn't - the only 2 sensors that matter here are the odometer and the dip stick
or do like the Porsche owner Nick
"oil sensor problem"? what is that supposed to mean?
the car either uses oil or it doesn't - the only 2 sensors that matter here are the odometer and the dip stick
or do like the Porsche owner Nick
Last edited by crxb; 07-01-2014 at 08:36 PM.
07-01-2014, 09:39 PM
#13
Ok, tell me then, in what case would it be non powertrain? The manager and Acura corp could not tell me aside from not changing the oil on the time (which I have records of).
Last time I authorized a charge, they told me it was a oil sensor problem, which concidentally, is a not a powertrain issue. Bullshit. They've been playing me from the start.
And what the hell does my confidence have to do with this? I've been confident from the start that the engine is consuming oil, and where has it gotten me? No where.
You sound suspiciously like someone who works for Acura.
Last time I authorized a charge, they told me it was a oil sensor problem, which concidentally, is a not a powertrain issue. Bullshit. They've been playing me from the start.
And what the hell does my confidence have to do with this? I've been confident from the start that the engine is consuming oil, and where has it gotten me? No where.
You sound suspiciously like someone who works for Acura.
I commented because I have experienced something similar in the past. If you read what I wrote, what I said was that if the problem was something covered by warranty, you shouldn't have a problem with a claim. You are entitled to the warranty that comes with the car, if you haven't violated any of the terms. However, if the problem was something not covered by warranty, I think that paying a diagnostic fee is fair.
My TSX was losing about a 1L of oil every 1000km. I took it to the dealership and they found it was a seal was defective. The seal wasn't covered by warranty because it was installed by the shop that installed my aftermarket camshafts. I didn't think it was fair to get the dealer to warranty something that was not a manufacture defect.
I have no clue what the service history you car has, what parts you use, what modifications your car has, or what is causing the oil consumption in your car. I simply stated why they would charge a diagnostic fee if the problem was not warranty related. I paid a $79 fee when they found out what was wrong with my car, I thought it was fair since since their tech spend the majority of an hour trying to identify what the problem was and it wasn't the manufacture's fault. I fixed the seal....and no more oil consumption issues. If you think they should give you a free diagnostic for non-warranty related issues I would respectfully disagree but that's your opinion. However if it is warranty related the dealer should not charge you.
Last edited by loulinjai; 07-01-2014 at 09:42 PM.
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07-01-2014, 10:15 PM
#14
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
How the heck is your post relevant to the topic? GTFO, I don't have the energy to deal with your trolling.
tell them your going to take it to your local tv consumer advocate reporter
"oil sensor problem"? what is that supposed to mean?
the car either uses oil or it doesn't - the only 2 sensors that matter here are the odometer and the dip stick
or do like the Porsche owner Nick
Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube
"oil sensor problem"? what is that supposed to mean?
the car either uses oil or it doesn't - the only 2 sensors that matter here are the odometer and the dip stick
or do like the Porsche owner Nick
Porsche 911 991 issues: UPDATE: Porsche and I have reached a solution - YouTube
Yeah, I saw those videos that the owner Nick had to deal with in his beloved 991. Issue after issue. Very sad that he had to post those videos before Porsche would do anything, esp when it was his dream vehicle with a MSRP of $100k+. At least at the end Porsche took care of him.
There is a local consumer advocate in town who works for a local TV station. I may just give him a call and see if it will work.
07-01-2014, 10:29 PM
#15
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
Whoa Whoa.....chill out. I don't work for Honda/Acura at the corporate level, their dealership network or any of their suppliers. I understand you're upset, but I'm not out to get you or to bash on you.
I commented because I have experienced something similar in the past. If you read what I wrote, what I said was that if the problem was something covered by warranty, you shouldn't have a problem with a claim. You are entitled to the warranty that comes with the car, if you haven't violated any of the terms. However, if the problem was something not covered by warranty, I think that paying a diagnostic fee is fair.
My TSX was losing about a 1L of oil every 1000km. I took it to the dealership and they found it was a seal was defective. The seal wasn't covered by warranty because it was installed by the shop that installed my aftermarket camshafts. I didn't think it was fair to get the dealer to warranty something that was not a manufacture defect.
I have no clue what the service history you car has, what parts you use, what modifications your car has, or what is causing the oil consumption in your car. I simply stated why they would charge a diagnostic fee if the problem was not warranty related. I paid a $79 fee when they found out what was wrong with my car, I thought it was fair since since their tech spend the majority of an hour trying to identify what the problem was and it wasn't the manufacture's fault. I fixed the seal....and no more oil consumption issues. If you think they should give you a free diagnostic for non-warranty related issues I would respectfully disagree but that's your opinion. However if it is warranty related the dealer should not charge you.
I commented because I have experienced something similar in the past. If you read what I wrote, what I said was that if the problem was something covered by warranty, you shouldn't have a problem with a claim. You are entitled to the warranty that comes with the car, if you haven't violated any of the terms. However, if the problem was something not covered by warranty, I think that paying a diagnostic fee is fair.
My TSX was losing about a 1L of oil every 1000km. I took it to the dealership and they found it was a seal was defective. The seal wasn't covered by warranty because it was installed by the shop that installed my aftermarket camshafts. I didn't think it was fair to get the dealer to warranty something that was not a manufacture defect.
I have no clue what the service history you car has, what parts you use, what modifications your car has, or what is causing the oil consumption in your car. I simply stated why they would charge a diagnostic fee if the problem was not warranty related. I paid a $79 fee when they found out what was wrong with my car, I thought it was fair since since their tech spend the majority of an hour trying to identify what the problem was and it wasn't the manufacture's fault. I fixed the seal....and no more oil consumption issues. If you think they should give you a free diagnostic for non-warranty related issues I would respectfully disagree but that's your opinion. However if it is warranty related the dealer should not charge you.
I don't mind paying a $79 fee but we're talking about $700 here. I haven't violated any terms. I get regular oil changes/service per MID, albeit not at the dealership. I have no mods of any sort on the engine, suspension, frame, brakes, or audio. Only "mods" I have are tinted windows and roof racks.
This dealership is making a big deal that b/c I don't get my service there regularly, they are using that also as bait.
My stance here is my vehicle is still under the 6yr/70k powertrain warranty, and this dealership would not examine the car unless I authorize $700 "just in case it's not a warranty case." And this I refuse to do because they can't or won't give me any justification before hand on what "non warranty issue" it may be. I also refuse b/c the last time I authorized a "just in case it's not a warranty case" they replaced the oil sensor at my cost... and it resolved nothing on my end.
As a poster said above, the car is either burning oil or isn't it. And it's not leaking oil b/c I don't see oil dripping on my garage floor. It's burning oil, and to the best of my limited auto knowledge, the only vehicle component the oil affects is the engine, and engine falls under power train warranty.
07-01-2014, 11:07 PM
#16
The same warranty should apply regardless on whether you service your car with them. I understand what you're trying to say, $700 for diagnostic is really excessive. From what you're saying, I think you're right. This dealership is more concerned about their revenue than to correct the problem.
Sometimes a dealer (or more specifically...a service manager) are dicks to deal with. I've had that before, I drove two hours to another dealer for a warranty claim, which ended up very smooth and awesome. It can be a pain in the butt, I recommend you to find another dealer you can trust and build a relationship with them. I vaguely recall someone's new 10-13 MDX with oil starvation problems (brand new car, prior to first oil change). It was posted here on Acurazine. It may be an isolated incident, but it may also be a known problem with the J37 engine. Good luck!
Sometimes a dealer (or more specifically...a service manager) are dicks to deal with. I've had that before, I drove two hours to another dealer for a warranty claim, which ended up very smooth and awesome. It can be a pain in the butt, I recommend you to find another dealer you can trust and build a relationship with them. I vaguely recall someone's new 10-13 MDX with oil starvation problems (brand new car, prior to first oil change). It was posted here on Acurazine. It may be an isolated incident, but it may also be a known problem with the J37 engine. Good luck!
07-02-2014, 12:45 AM
#17
Agreed 100%. Only reason I can think of is they are trying to play me again, and that the dealership will not bat for me to have said issue resolved. They want to ensure they get paid, and it's obvious being paid is the only issue this dealership is concerned about.
How the heck is your post relevant to the topic? GTFO, I don't have the energy to deal with your trolling.
Actually that's a pretty good idea!
Yeah, I saw those videos that the owner Nick had to deal with in his beloved 991. Issue after issue. Very sad that he had to post those videos before Porsche would do anything, esp when it was his dream vehicle with a MSRP of $100k+. At least at the end Porsche took care of him.
There is a local consumer advocate in town who works for a local TV station. I may just give him a call and see if it will work.
How the heck is your post relevant to the topic? GTFO, I don't have the energy to deal with your trolling.
Actually that's a pretty good idea!
Yeah, I saw those videos that the owner Nick had to deal with in his beloved 991. Issue after issue. Very sad that he had to post those videos before Porsche would do anything, esp when it was his dream vehicle with a MSRP of $100k+. At least at the end Porsche took care of him.
There is a local consumer advocate in town who works for a local TV station. I may just give him a call and see if it will work.
07-02-2014, 09:18 AM
#18
Assuming the information you are giving us is correct (all scheduled maintenance, no modifications) I think it is safe to say everyone here is on your side. It doesn't matter what is causing the problem ... the engine is malfunctioning. It should be covered under warranty.
One thing: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your dealership is NOT trying to "play you". They are just following procedures. Don't take it personally.
You also mentioned you didn't trust the other dealership, because of a comment a tech made about a headrest. Again, don't take it personally. These are service people/mechanics, not politicians. They aren't always experts in communications, if you know what I mean.
I don't think your dealership is out to get you. They are just covering themselves, like they are required to do.
I understand your frustration about them not being able to answer question about "what non-powertrain issue could be causing the problem". Seems rather cut and dry to me. Regardless of the cause, the powertrain is the symptom, so it should be covered.
One thing: I'm going to go out on a limb and say that your dealership is NOT trying to "play you". They are just following procedures. Don't take it personally.
You also mentioned you didn't trust the other dealership, because of a comment a tech made about a headrest. Again, don't take it personally. These are service people/mechanics, not politicians. They aren't always experts in communications, if you know what I mean.
I don't think your dealership is out to get you. They are just covering themselves, like they are required to do.
I understand your frustration about them not being able to answer question about "what non-powertrain issue could be causing the problem". Seems rather cut and dry to me. Regardless of the cause, the powertrain is the symptom, so it should be covered.
07-02-2014, 09:20 AM
#19
I got this same thing when dealing with my torque converter issue. The first dealership wanted me to agree to a $129 preauthorization payment in case it wasn't covered by my CPO warranty. I went to a different dealership, they didn't make me preauthorize anything and got the torque converter replaced with no hassles. I agree with you completely that this is BS and hopefully another dealership can take better care of this for you.
07-02-2014, 09:41 AM
#20
You tell them its an outrageous stance, their concern is the timing of oil changes, of which you can produce documentation to substantiate. Tell them to fix the problem, else you are going to the better business bureau and the attorney generals office, and then hiring a lawyer to deal with it.
For them to refuse is breach of contract
For them to refuse is breach of contract
Last edited by Booya4139; 07-02-2014 at 09:43 AM.
07-02-2014, 10:28 AM
#21
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
I feel for you because I have dealt with issues with and different car company before and it sucks, but here is my two cents..
Even though you already contacted customer relations I would send them a letter (certified) so that your concerns are in writing and they open a case. If they already opened a case just reference it on your letter…
I would politely explain everything that you have been going though and ask them why they are refusing to stand behind their product. Even though they can look it up, I would send copies of your service history because more than likely they are going to ask you for it anyway so this may save some time.
Explain that obviously there is a problem with the car and the dealer is aware of it because during a different service visit the dealer told you the problem was an oil sensor which they changed at your expense. So if there wasn't a problem why would the dealer have changed the sensor.
But now that the repair is under warranty the are refusing to work on the car unless you give them a security deposit of $700 which is totally unacceptable. On a side note, IMO the dealer is probably protecting themselves in case Acura Corp refuses to pay them for the work.
Also, I can tell you from experience that no matter how much you want to scream and yell don’t do it. Keep your cool, I know it’s easier said than done but I promise you if you carry on like a lunatic the dealer and customer relations will be turned off and less willing to help you.
Two years ago after months of discussions with MBUSA about the many issues my wife’s 2011 ML had they finally took it back and put us into a 2012 ML. When all was said and done the GM at my dealership told me that one of the main reasons MB did the substitution of collateral for me was because how polite me and my wife were to everyone at the dealership and MB USA customer relations. Maybe it was BS but then again he didn’t have to say it.
Don’t get me wrong, I was firm when I had to be with them but never over the top dramatic as I have seen other people be. The GM explained that people that scream and threaten are usually the ones that tend to not get anywhere, or it at least gets dragged on a lot longer.
Good Luck..
Even though you already contacted customer relations I would send them a letter (certified) so that your concerns are in writing and they open a case. If they already opened a case just reference it on your letter…
I would politely explain everything that you have been going though and ask them why they are refusing to stand behind their product. Even though they can look it up, I would send copies of your service history because more than likely they are going to ask you for it anyway so this may save some time.
Explain that obviously there is a problem with the car and the dealer is aware of it because during a different service visit the dealer told you the problem was an oil sensor which they changed at your expense. So if there wasn't a problem why would the dealer have changed the sensor.
But now that the repair is under warranty the are refusing to work on the car unless you give them a security deposit of $700 which is totally unacceptable. On a side note, IMO the dealer is probably protecting themselves in case Acura Corp refuses to pay them for the work.
Also, I can tell you from experience that no matter how much you want to scream and yell don’t do it. Keep your cool, I know it’s easier said than done but I promise you if you carry on like a lunatic the dealer and customer relations will be turned off and less willing to help you.
Two years ago after months of discussions with MBUSA about the many issues my wife’s 2011 ML had they finally took it back and put us into a 2012 ML. When all was said and done the GM at my dealership told me that one of the main reasons MB did the substitution of collateral for me was because how polite me and my wife were to everyone at the dealership and MB USA customer relations. Maybe it was BS but then again he didn’t have to say it.
Don’t get me wrong, I was firm when I had to be with them but never over the top dramatic as I have seen other people be. The GM explained that people that scream and threaten are usually the ones that tend to not get anywhere, or it at least gets dragged on a lot longer.
Good Luck..
Last edited by JT4; 07-02-2014 at 10:41 AM.
07-02-2014, 10:42 AM
#22
Whoa Whoa.....chill out. I don't work for Honda/Acura at the corporate level, their dealership network or any of their suppliers. I understand you're upset, but I'm not out to get you or to bash on you.
I commented because I have experienced something similar in the past. If you read what I wrote, what I said was that if the problem was something covered by warranty, you shouldn't have a problem with a claim. You are entitled to the warranty that comes with the car, if you haven't violated any of the terms. However, if the problem was something not covered by warranty, I think that paying a diagnostic fee is fair.
My TSX was losing about a 1L of oil every 1000km. I took it to the dealership and they found it was a seal was defective. The seal wasn't covered by warranty because it was installed by the shop that installed my aftermarket camshafts. I didn't think it was fair to get the dealer to warranty something that was not a manufacture defect.
I have no clue what the service history you car has, what parts you use, what modifications your car has, or what is causing the oil consumption in your car. I simply stated why they would charge a diagnostic fee if the problem was not warranty related. I paid a $79 fee when they found out what was wrong with my car, I thought it was fair since since their tech spend the majority of an hour trying to identify what the problem was and it wasn't the manufacture's fault. I fixed the seal....and no more oil consumption issues. If you think they should give you a free diagnostic for non-warranty related issues I would respectfully disagree but that's your opinion. However if it is warranty related the dealer should not charge you.
I commented because I have experienced something similar in the past. If you read what I wrote, what I said was that if the problem was something covered by warranty, you shouldn't have a problem with a claim. You are entitled to the warranty that comes with the car, if you haven't violated any of the terms. However, if the problem was something not covered by warranty, I think that paying a diagnostic fee is fair.
My TSX was losing about a 1L of oil every 1000km. I took it to the dealership and they found it was a seal was defective. The seal wasn't covered by warranty because it was installed by the shop that installed my aftermarket camshafts. I didn't think it was fair to get the dealer to warranty something that was not a manufacture defect.
I have no clue what the service history you car has, what parts you use, what modifications your car has, or what is causing the oil consumption in your car. I simply stated why they would charge a diagnostic fee if the problem was not warranty related. I paid a $79 fee when they found out what was wrong with my car, I thought it was fair since since their tech spend the majority of an hour trying to identify what the problem was and it wasn't the manufacture's fault. I fixed the seal....and no more oil consumption issues. If you think they should give you a free diagnostic for non-warranty related issues I would respectfully disagree but that's your opinion. However if it is warranty related the dealer should not charge you.
one thing to keep in mind, everything is a business and they make money service cars. that's why they will give you a pass if you service your car at their places regularly. on the other hand, they will question you and make sure they dont waste time on someone take advantage of the warranty.
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a35tl (07-03-2014)
07-02-2014, 12:08 PM
#24
Maybe I read it wrong, but I don't think they are asking you for $700 up front as a deposit; rather they just want a verbal authorization of $700 for tear down IF it turns out to be something not covered under the warranty. If that's the case, you will never be giving the dealer $700 since it will be covered under the warranty.
07-02-2014, 01:12 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
[QUOTE=docboy;15066861]
How the heck is your post relevant to the topic? GTFO, I don't have the energy to deal with your trolling.
It sucks, when someone comes onto your thread and posts meaningless BS. What goes around comes around, Enjoy! It SHO was time to post on your thread.
How the heck is your post relevant to the topic? GTFO, I don't have the energy to deal with your trolling.
It sucks, when someone comes onto your thread and posts meaningless BS. What goes around comes around, Enjoy! It SHO was time to post on your thread.
07-02-2014, 01:23 PM
#26
they have his car as collateral if he doesnt pay anything that is due. they put a mechanics lien on it.
to demand the money to HOLD JUST IN CASE is BS. he is dealing with a FREAKING DEALERSHIP not 'sally's used cars and warrantys'
sheesh.
GL OP
prolly the best bet is take the 'calm firm approach or get someone who can to stand in for you' deal with Acura CS as was stated a few times above.
and since this is a big job and hopefully only once maybe going a bit further to a different stealer is better. you can go local after but go where you are going to be the most comfortable for this big job.
to demand the money to HOLD JUST IN CASE is BS. he is dealing with a FREAKING DEALERSHIP not 'sally's used cars and warrantys'
sheesh.
GL OP
prolly the best bet is take the 'calm firm approach or get someone who can to stand in for you' deal with Acura CS as was stated a few times above.
and since this is a big job and hopefully only once maybe going a bit further to a different stealer is better. you can go local after but go where you are going to be the most comfortable for this big job.
07-02-2014, 02:49 PM
#27
'07 TL Type-S
Also mark me down for thinking this is horseshit. Just another dealer being scum and showing why no one likes dealers.
07-02-2014, 03:34 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
This is complete horseshit treatment of a customer by the Acura dealer.
If the engine is leaking oil at that rate you should see it and apparently that's not the case. Even if it is a seal, it's an engine seal and that should be covered under the powertrain warranty. If the engine is burning oil excessively then it is an engine problem and sh ould be covered. I thought they already did an oil consumption test and agreed it's using oil. (?) Any fees to look into this and diagnose further are just arm-twisting by the dealer. They already took advantage of the owner with the sensor bs. Unfortunately doc you are between a rock and a hard place. My 2 cents: go as high up the ladder as you can. Ask to speak to the GM or the owner. As recommended, be as polite and firm as possible. You have to give them the chance to fix the problem. If they can't or won't you have two options. Try the newspaper troubleshooter approach if you still do not get satisfaction.
Appeal again to corporate Acura. Get a lawyer involved.
And go somewhere else in future if the dealer does not come around. I feel your pain. This is not how a customer should be treated.
If the engine is leaking oil at that rate you should see it and apparently that's not the case. Even if it is a seal, it's an engine seal and that should be covered under the powertrain warranty. If the engine is burning oil excessively then it is an engine problem and sh ould be covered. I thought they already did an oil consumption test and agreed it's using oil. (?) Any fees to look into this and diagnose further are just arm-twisting by the dealer. They already took advantage of the owner with the sensor bs. Unfortunately doc you are between a rock and a hard place. My 2 cents: go as high up the ladder as you can. Ask to speak to the GM or the owner. As recommended, be as polite and firm as possible. You have to give them the chance to fix the problem. If they can't or won't you have two options. Try the newspaper troubleshooter approach if you still do not get satisfaction.
Appeal again to corporate Acura. Get a lawyer involved.
And go somewhere else in future if the dealer does not come around. I feel your pain. This is not how a customer should be treated.
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docboy (07-02-2014)
07-02-2014, 05:41 PM
#29
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
I feel for you because I have dealt with issues with and different car company before and it sucks, but here is my two cents..
Even though you already contacted customer relations I would send them a letter (certified) so that your concerns are in writing and they open a case. If they already opened a case just reference it on your letter…
I would politely explain everything that you have been going though and ask them why they are refusing to stand behind their product. Even though they can look it up, I would send copies of your service history because more than likely they are going to ask you for it anyway so this may save some time.
Explain that obviously there is a problem with the car and the dealer is aware of it because during a different service visit the dealer told you the problem was an oil sensor which they changed at your expense. So if there wasn't a problem why would the dealer have changed the sensor.
But now that the repair is under warranty the are refusing to work on the car unless you give them a security deposit of $700 which is totally unacceptable. On a side note, IMO the dealer is probably protecting themselves in case Acura Corp refuses to pay them for the work.
Also, I can tell you from experience that no matter how much you want to scream and yell don’t do it. Keep your cool, I know it’s easier said than done but I promise you if you carry on like a lunatic the dealer and customer relations will be turned off and less willing to help you.
Two years ago after months of discussions with MBUSA about the many issues my wife’s 2011 ML had they finally took it back and put us into a 2012 ML. When all was said and done the GM at my dealership told me that one of the main reasons MB did the substitution of collateral for me was because how polite me and my wife were to everyone at the dealership and MB USA customer relations. Maybe it was BS but then again he didn’t have to say it.
Don’t get me wrong, I was firm when I had to be with them but never over the top dramatic as I have seen other people be. The GM explained that people that scream and threaten are usually the ones that tend to not get anywhere, or it at least gets dragged on a lot longer.
Good Luck..
Even though you already contacted customer relations I would send them a letter (certified) so that your concerns are in writing and they open a case. If they already opened a case just reference it on your letter…
I would politely explain everything that you have been going though and ask them why they are refusing to stand behind their product. Even though they can look it up, I would send copies of your service history because more than likely they are going to ask you for it anyway so this may save some time.
Explain that obviously there is a problem with the car and the dealer is aware of it because during a different service visit the dealer told you the problem was an oil sensor which they changed at your expense. So if there wasn't a problem why would the dealer have changed the sensor.
But now that the repair is under warranty the are refusing to work on the car unless you give them a security deposit of $700 which is totally unacceptable. On a side note, IMO the dealer is probably protecting themselves in case Acura Corp refuses to pay them for the work.
Also, I can tell you from experience that no matter how much you want to scream and yell don’t do it. Keep your cool, I know it’s easier said than done but I promise you if you carry on like a lunatic the dealer and customer relations will be turned off and less willing to help you.
Two years ago after months of discussions with MBUSA about the many issues my wife’s 2011 ML had they finally took it back and put us into a 2012 ML. When all was said and done the GM at my dealership told me that one of the main reasons MB did the substitution of collateral for me was because how polite me and my wife were to everyone at the dealership and MB USA customer relations. Maybe it was BS but then again he didn’t have to say it.
Don’t get me wrong, I was firm when I had to be with them but never over the top dramatic as I have seen other people be. The GM explained that people that scream and threaten are usually the ones that tend to not get anywhere, or it at least gets dragged on a lot longer.
Good Luck..
I held my cool at the dealership, was not angry by any means, and kept stern demeanor against the preauth.
I held most of my cool when I was on the phone with Acura Client Relations, though admittedly towards the end of conversation I lost some of my patience and was definitely furious at Acura. This coming from someone who is extremely patient and calm normally!
My current thought process is to call around some of the other dealerships and see if they are willing to take on the case without subjecting me to a large preauth amount.
07-02-2014, 06:21 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Your best bet is to call other dealerships. I have a similar issue and I've gotten to the point where I'll never buy another Acura again. From the transmission being finicky (from every 6 cylinder Acura I've owned) to the engine burning 2.5 quartz of oil every 8k oil change, there is nothing a dealer can do and this is all because of Acura's poor engineering design with 6 cylinder vehicles and their horrible transmissions.
I had my TSX for 2 years only... but within those two years, I felt reliability. There was absolutely no issues with the 4 banger vehicle. I had my CL for around 6 years. Went through 3 transmissions, 2 of which I paid full price for a rebuild. It's ridiculous.
I don't even care if I have to go with Lexus's "old technology". Their 6 cylinder engines are built to last and their transmissions are like diamonds. I bought TL over a BMW due to reliability and maintenance... and lately it seems like owning a BMW would have costed me less on all of that. The stupid "$129 diagnostic fees" that end up with 'oh every car burns oil' or the 'you need to change your transmission fluid again'. Bull shit. I've changed my tranny fluid every 8000km... along with my oil.
I had my TSX for 2 years only... but within those two years, I felt reliability. There was absolutely no issues with the 4 banger vehicle. I had my CL for around 6 years. Went through 3 transmissions, 2 of which I paid full price for a rebuild. It's ridiculous.
I don't even care if I have to go with Lexus's "old technology". Their 6 cylinder engines are built to last and their transmissions are like diamonds. I bought TL over a BMW due to reliability and maintenance... and lately it seems like owning a BMW would have costed me less on all of that. The stupid "$129 diagnostic fees" that end up with 'oh every car burns oil' or the 'you need to change your transmission fluid again'. Bull shit. I've changed my tranny fluid every 8000km... along with my oil.
07-02-2014, 08:51 PM
#31
Drifting
^I feel for you. I would be tempted to park the car by the dealership one weekend with a big sign in the front or back window: "Don't do it- it burns OIL .. and worse yet they won't fix it" and see what happens with the dealer's attitude.
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Devil Dog 21 (07-21-2014)
07-03-2014, 12:01 AM
#32
Fortunately no issues but I always speak to the mechanic and supervisor at the same time. I also ask questions that test their knowledge. Loke which one of you has the training and schooling to be certified to work on acuras?
9 times out of the 10 the supervisor is just a guy in white shirt that listens to the mechanics with no real knowledge. The mechanics may or may not be certified. When I worked at a Ford dealership way back in the day, just have to have an ASE certified mechanic on the clock while work was being performed. Didn't mean he was the one working on the car. Could have easily been the goof ball on a mentor program or a helper learning the ropes. Certified tech would just walk around looking at the different jobs being performed.
I would have asked the supervisor and mechanics together, is it safe to say since the car has no oil under it or all over the engine bay that's it's burning the oil and not leaking out the engine?
Question 2, now that we established it's not a leak. Besides the rings having a blow by or the valve seals allowing oil to get pass them, what else would cause this issue?
Question 3, since we have established through your own answering of questions 1 & 2, why am I paying you a fee or any type of pre authorized charge when you just told me what's wrong. Unless of course you can't answer 1&2. My service providers hate me but the others not dealing with me keep a smirk on their face when their coworkers get called on the BS they try and give me.
9 times out of the 10 the supervisor is just a guy in white shirt that listens to the mechanics with no real knowledge. The mechanics may or may not be certified. When I worked at a Ford dealership way back in the day, just have to have an ASE certified mechanic on the clock while work was being performed. Didn't mean he was the one working on the car. Could have easily been the goof ball on a mentor program or a helper learning the ropes. Certified tech would just walk around looking at the different jobs being performed.
I would have asked the supervisor and mechanics together, is it safe to say since the car has no oil under it or all over the engine bay that's it's burning the oil and not leaking out the engine?
Question 2, now that we established it's not a leak. Besides the rings having a blow by or the valve seals allowing oil to get pass them, what else would cause this issue?
Question 3, since we have established through your own answering of questions 1 & 2, why am I paying you a fee or any type of pre authorized charge when you just told me what's wrong. Unless of course you can't answer 1&2. My service providers hate me but the others not dealing with me keep a smirk on their face when their coworkers get called on the BS they try and give me.
07-03-2014, 07:45 AM
#33
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
Appreciate the post. Any suggestions on what to do next? The local dealership will not diagnose the car without the $700 preauth, so I'm not going back to them. The tech manager stood his ground, and I stood by mine.
I held my cool at the dealership, was not angry by any means, and kept stern demeanor against the preauth.
I held most of my cool when I was on the phone with Acura Client Relations, though admittedly towards the end of conversation I lost some of my patience and was definitely furious at Acura. This coming from someone who is extremely patient and calm normally!
My current thought process is to call around some of the other dealerships and see if they are willing to take on the case without subjecting me to a large preauth amount.
I held my cool at the dealership, was not angry by any means, and kept stern demeanor against the preauth.
I held most of my cool when I was on the phone with Acura Client Relations, though admittedly towards the end of conversation I lost some of my patience and was definitely furious at Acura. This coming from someone who is extremely patient and calm normally!
My current thought process is to call around some of the other dealerships and see if they are willing to take on the case without subjecting me to a large preauth amount.
Make sure you let Acura know that this is the same dealer that had already diagnosed the oil issue, told you it was an oil sensor and charged you $xxx to change it. But it didn’t correct the problem and now that you have gone back to them you’re confused as to why they are asking for $700 upfront on what they said was a warranty repair.
The more I think about it this point seems to be flying under the radar. Your dealer already tried to fix the car, told you it was an oil sensor, charged you to change it and yet you still have the problem. So obviously they misdiagnosed the fix so are they going to refund you for this failed attempt. We know the answer but ask the question anyway.
Stress this to Acura and tell them that at this point you don’t have any confidence in your current dealer. Acura should on your behalf contact another dealer for you to go to. In a perfect world Acura customer relations is supposed to act on your behalf with their dealers to get your car fixed.
No matter how many times you don’t get the answer you want don’t give up, remember they’re not going to make it easy. My last resort would be to have an attorney friend send a letter to Acura asking why they are refusing to stand behind THEIR product and fix your car which is under warranty.
Hang in there
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docboy (07-03-2014)
07-03-2014, 10:43 AM
#34
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
Agree.
If all else fails, an attorney is the best and last resort.
After all, Acura is not honoring it's factory warranty in good faith.
Agree.
If all else fails, an attorney is the best and last resort.
After all, Acura is not honoring it's factory warranty in good faith.
07-03-2014, 02:13 PM
#35
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
Ok, so the process has begun.
Interestingly enough today, I got an email satisfaction survey from American Honda / Acura Client Services. I let them know exactly what happened and my dissatisfaction, and wrote for them to contact me to have the issue resolved.
I left a negative Google review for the dealership (I usually leave only positive reviews, so this just goes to show my frustration). The dealership has quite a few other negative reviews
they respond to (whether it's resolved or not, I don't know). It's my hope they respond to my review and ask me to contact them.
I'm taking off this week due to the holidays, so I'll wait a few days and see where this goes.
Interestingly enough today, I got an email satisfaction survey from American Honda / Acura Client Services. I let them know exactly what happened and my dissatisfaction, and wrote for them to contact me to have the issue resolved.
I left a negative Google review for the dealership (I usually leave only positive reviews, so this just goes to show my frustration). The dealership has quite a few other negative reviews
they respond to (whether it's resolved or not, I don't know). It's my hope they respond to my review and ask me to contact them.I'm taking off this week due to the holidays, so I'll wait a few days and see where this goes.
07-03-2014, 03:17 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
docboy, posting on the Acura Facebook page also gets their attention pretty fast as well. Do that before the lawyer route.
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skabei (07-03-2014)
07-03-2014, 06:30 PM
#37
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Thread Starter
07-03-2014, 09:41 PM
#38
Instructor
I realize emotions have been running a little high here. However, whether anyone agrees or disagrees, any dealership is fully justified in not just asking, but requiring the customer to agree to reimburse their wholesale labor costs in the event that the engine teardown results in discovery of a non-warranty cause of the problem.
True that they are going to get their money one way or another, but asking the customer to authorize the teardown & agree to stand good the cost of the labor in the event it's not a warranty problem, demonstrates good faith on the customer's part and is a matter of good business practice on the dealership's part. Believe me, they do not want to get into a pissing match by enforcing a mechanics lien, but they certainly will do so if you insist on being a horse's ass about it.
By getting huffy with the dealership tells me you've already started off on the wrong foot here and are now throwing gasoline on the fire, metaphorically speaking. Frankly, if you were my customer, I would be very tempted to ask you to take your car somewhere else as it's clear from the tone of your complaint and emotional harangue that it's unlikely anything we could do would ever completely satisfy you.
The dealership is not going to perform an engine teardown for you or anyone without guarantee of payment for their labor. The manufacturer guarantees payment if it is a warranty item, and the customer (you) must agree to guarantee payment if it isn't. It's not the dealership's problem. The issue is between you and the manufacturer. The dealership is the guy in the middle who will be doing the work, but either way he is going to get paid. The dealership is not going to eat the labor and the mechanic is not going to work for free. Someone is going to pay them.
...and that's how it works.
True that they are going to get their money one way or another, but asking the customer to authorize the teardown & agree to stand good the cost of the labor in the event it's not a warranty problem, demonstrates good faith on the customer's part and is a matter of good business practice on the dealership's part. Believe me, they do not want to get into a pissing match by enforcing a mechanics lien, but they certainly will do so if you insist on being a horse's ass about it.
By getting huffy with the dealership tells me you've already started off on the wrong foot here and are now throwing gasoline on the fire, metaphorically speaking. Frankly, if you were my customer, I would be very tempted to ask you to take your car somewhere else as it's clear from the tone of your complaint and emotional harangue that it's unlikely anything we could do would ever completely satisfy you.
The dealership is not going to perform an engine teardown for you or anyone without guarantee of payment for their labor. The manufacturer guarantees payment if it is a warranty item, and the customer (you) must agree to guarantee payment if it isn't. It's not the dealership's problem. The issue is between you and the manufacturer. The dealership is the guy in the middle who will be doing the work, but either way he is going to get paid. The dealership is not going to eat the labor and the mechanic is not going to work for free. Someone is going to pay them.
...and that's how it works.
Last edited by Cap'n Preshoot; 07-03-2014 at 09:51 PM.
07-03-2014, 10:01 PM
#39
I realize emotions have been running a little high here. However, whether anyone agrees or disagrees, any dealership is fully justified in not just asking, but requiring the customer to agree to reimburse their wholesale labor costs in the event that the engine teardown results in discovery of a non-warranty cause of the problem.
True that they are going to get their money one way or another, but asking the customer to authorize the teardown & agree to stand good the cost of the labor in the event it's not a warranty problem, demonstrates good faith on the customer's part and is a matter of good business practice on the dealership's part. Believe me, they do not want to get into a pissing match by enforcing a mechanics lien, but they certainly will do so if you insist on being a horse's ass about it.
True that they are going to get their money one way or another, but asking the customer to authorize the teardown & agree to stand good the cost of the labor in the event it's not a warranty problem, demonstrates good faith on the customer's part and is a matter of good business practice on the dealership's part. Believe me, they do not want to get into a pissing match by enforcing a mechanics lien, but they certainly will do so if you insist on being a horse's ass about it.
By getting huffy with the dealership tells me you've already started off on the wrong foot here and are now throwing gasoline on the fire, metaphorically speaking. Frankly, if you were my customer, I would be very tempted to ask you to take your car somewhere else as it's clear from the tone of your complaint and emotional harangue that it's unlikely anything we could do would ever completely satisfy you.
The dealership is not going to perform an engine teardown for you or anyone without guarantee of payment for their labor. The manufacturer guarantees payment if it is a warranty item, and the customer (you) must agree to guarantee payment if it isn't. The dealership is not going to eat the labor and the mechanic is not going to work without being paid. Someone is going to pay them. No attorney is going to take this case on the basis of a $700 claim and if you take it into Small Claims Court you are going to lose.
...and that's how it works.
The dealership is not going to perform an engine teardown for you or anyone without guarantee of payment for their labor. The manufacturer guarantees payment if it is a warranty item, and the customer (you) must agree to guarantee payment if it isn't. The dealership is not going to eat the labor and the mechanic is not going to work without being paid. Someone is going to pay them. No attorney is going to take this case on the basis of a $700 claim and if you take it into Small Claims Court you are going to lose.
...and that's how it works.
Dont listen to this guy, OP. Fight it till the end. Fuck em.
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docboy (07-07-2014)
07-03-2014, 10:20 PM
#40
Instructor
Equally doubtful that a TV station consumer advocate would touch this with a 10-ft pole as they also know the dealership is absolutely within their rights to require a guarantee of payment from both parties (the mfr and the customer)
All I see here is a terribly angry customer demanding something that is very unlikely to happen on his terms.
I don't suppose anyone's bothered to run a compression check...
Last edited by Cap'n Preshoot; 07-03-2014 at 10:23 PM.
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RenoTL (07-04-2014)