hadokenuh

^^ its not $700, its a potential engine replacement which is about 5k-8k I think.

Edward'TLS

Just curious, if a customer has no aftermarket stuff done to the engine, what "non-warranty cause of the (oil consumption) problem" would be discovered after an engine teardown, other than design faults and/or bad component workmanship that should very well be covered by factory warranty ?

Brock79

They would just tow it, because it is illegally parked. You get a C for effort though.

LaCostaRacer

Brock- you can sure be a dick can't you? A dealership cannot tow a car that is legally parked on a city street and has not been abandoned. As long as OP follows the rules no tow would happen.

If I were the OP, I would have the dealership indicate exactly what things would constitute owner-induced issues:
1. oil changes- a dealership would need to prove exactly what the OP did or did not do. It's logically impossible to prove that a owner did not do an oil change if that becomes
an issue.

2. what would an owner do while driving the car to induce oil consumption?


I had you ignored for quite a while, but had to see what you would add to this thread- I wasn't disappointed- NOTHING!

The comment about getting an SHO was extremely helpful to the OP I might add. For somebody in love with the SHO as you seem to be, you sure spend a lot of time at an Acura owner's forum. I guess there must not be much going on with Taurus forums.

jim_c

Cap'n Preshoot, you do sound quite logical and there may be some (many?) who think you are right, but what this is about is customer service. When someone pays (?) $50,000 for a vehicle, the dealer and the manufacturer have an ethical obligation to go the extra mile to satisfy the customer. The dealer should not be taking an adversarial position. They already beat around the bush with the sensor bullshit. They confirmed that the car is excessively consuming oil which has been a reported issue with some number of other owners with the 3.7 L engine. The dealer should be striving to do everything possible to make the customer happy. The customer is not always right, but businesses who treat the customer as a pain in the ass are way out of line. It will not cost the dealership $700 to find out what is wrong. It will take a few hours and they are paying the mechanic 30 or $40 an hour if he's lucky. If they already confimed there is excessive oil consumption, then it is on them to do whatever they can to remedy the problem. That is customer service. To get into a bunch of legalities to "protect" the dealership is horseshit.
I used to work in the car repair business. We fixed a lot of issues that were technically not our responsibility. For example, we fixed a customer's truck. He then went out and broke the transmission by plowing snow. We fixed it again for free. Customer service.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Here's your warning. Knock off the confrontational posts.

The model specific forums are run differently than Ramblings.

Edward'TLS

Jim_C, I hate to say this, but your post is to the point and useful.

dirtyo2000

I don't understand the issue. They are supposed to trouble shoot the engine. Diagnosed the problem and fix. Sounds like they are guessing the problem and basically saying we think this is it. Now if we take it apart and acura laughs at us then we need you to pay for this.

Simple compression test will give the health of the rings and valves. Take it further and break out the bore scope. Technology has come to far to guess at a problem. Not to mention the car is known to have such issues. I would find another dealer personally. If they are acting like this now, no telling what will happen once the car is opened up

Brock79

I would like the same respect then, go through and read my threads and you will see the la costa racer and the OP have come onto a few of my threads and shittied all over them.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

^ will do. Going forward, I expect that you all ignore each other's posts or conform your posts to the rules of the model specific forum. Thanks.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'm not sure a compression test will indicate a problem, if for example, it is the oil control ring that is causing Doc's issue. The compression test will read within normal, but if the oil control ring is not doing its job, it will still allow oil to enter the combustion chamber. On the other hand, the bore scope should go far to indicate if there's a problem. Either way, I agree the dealer has not acted in a customer friendly way. I wonder if they would have reacted this way if all oil changes had been done at their shop.

hyperpm

Honda's famous S2000 engines per manual states to check oil at every gas fill up. Do our Acuras state that in our manual?

LNJ

It does in the warranty booklet somewhere. About checking it every 2nd fill up.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Some posts have been deleted. All the drama between la costa, Brock and the OP either is left in the past or bans are going to be handed out. Now, back to the thread.

docboy

+100000. I keep asking the dealership and Acura Client relations this same questions, and I could not get an answer.

THIS. Frankly I'm just shocked this dealership would be acting in this manner. The dealership is located in an affluent and high tech area, and one would think this business would at least TRY and make it a point to satisfy the consumer.

The Lexus dealership in this same city is an absolute ROCKSTAR when it comes to customer service. 180 degree opposite from that of Acura's, and Lexus here will bend over backwards to make it right for the consumer.

Having said that, the only thing I'm asking here is for the dealership and Acura to honor the warranty. It's not as if I'm asking for something ridiculous like free rims or reimbursing my time. Per the warranty booklet in the 2010 TL, verbatim "all repairs/replacements made under this warranty are free of charge."

skabei

What's your progress on this issue docboy?

docboy

Not much yet. Said dealership responded back; they are not budging from their request for me to preauth $700 "just in case." At this stage I will not be contacting this same dealership anymore. It's just a waste of my time and energy, and frankly I don't trust them anymore.

Acura Corp finally responded to me via Facebook. I just sent them the info they requested.

I'll give Acura a few days and see what happens.

NBP04TL4ME

Really don't understand the position the dealer is taking in this scenario unless they have somehow been burned in the past.
OP is asking for an issue to be diagnosed - plain and simple. They should take the car and do their due diligence in making such diagnosis. If whatever they find is covered by warranty - no problem. If what they find is not covered by warranty (not likely), they need to reach out to OP for a decision in terms of how to proceed (authorize repairs or not). The dealership has the OP's car either taken apart or put back together, but the bottom line is the dealership has the car - they aren't going to get stuck. Am I missing something

cltgt

Aside from the payment issue, let's look at the actual issue. Can you have someone drive behind you and see if it blows smoke. If it is blowing smoke, note when it is doing it. When idling, right when you hit the gas, right when you let off the gas. Things like that can help determine if it is a main seal issue( I would have the fluid in your transmission checked, just in case..) An exhaust valve seal issue, or perhaps a piston ring or seal has broken down. All of these will be power train issues without a doubt. having that info before talking to next dealer may go a long way in getting issue resolved quickly and effortlessly.

JT4

I totally agree, this makes no sense.. Especially when you take into account that this same dealer already misdiagnosed the car once before and charged the OP for an oil sensor that didn't fix the problem..

JT4

OP – I just thought of this. When did your dealer change the oil sensor??

The reason I ask is because I just noticed on one of my Acura service invoices at the bottom left hand corner it states the following;
“Limited Express Warranty, Labor and Parts are warranted for 90 Days or 4,000 miles”.

So my thinking is, if you're within the 90 days or 4,000 miles since they changed the oil sensor your dealer is supposed to warranty that repair since it didn't fix the problem.. Check your invoice and mention it to Acura client relations.


I figured it was worth a shot.

docboy

Good catch, thanks for pointing that out.

Acura relations finally called and left a message for me. I've been so swamped at the office, I haven't been able to call them. I'll call them in a couple of days and post what happens.

JT4

You got it, good luck!!

Slithr

Continue to work facebook. If the dealership has an account, post on that. Also post on the national Acura site. I really hadn't thought that much about it, but my wife has gotten excellent results regarding consumer service issues by working them on social media.

Acura2010

Hey Doc Boy,

I'm sure you've followed my post about my Oil Burning issue, and your dealer is totally trying to screw you. My Dealer has gone to bat for me, finally after 3 weeks at the dealer, my car is back. They checked the plugs, and intact etc. Then reported back to Acura Tech Line. They then authorized them to do engine tear down. They still didn't see any abnormal issues as they reported back to Tech Line. They then authorized them to remove cylnder 4 and 5, machine the pistons to clean it up, order new seals and gaskets and rings. Put everything back together, and after 3 weeks my car is back in my possesion. Not sure if the problem is resolved yet, as i have to follow break in period and i haven't put many miles on it yet, but so far so good. No warning lights etc. Had a brand new TL A-Spec as a loaner, and best of all i just droped off the key, signed for the loaner and went on my merry way. Picked up my car, and good to go. Never once did they ask for any money or credit card authorization.

Edward'TLS

This is how it should be. Factory authorized Acura dealerships handling warranty claims on Acura vehicles.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I have not had many warranty claims on cars, but never once have I had a dealer ask for payment "just in case." If anything, my experience (all with Japanese makes) is that they will sometimes take care of things that are questionable warranty items, with no questions asked.


Other than Doc's experience, I've also never heard of a dealer doing this. Perhaps they have their reasons, but it does not seem right (or very smart, from a customer relations standpoint).

cltgt

Agreed. I had to take my Accord in once for possible warranty issue. They said I had a bad motor mount that would be replaced under warranty. I told them to take their time and check car out. Wound up getting all motor mounts, starter, and transmission replaced!

NBP04TL4ME

docboy -

Please keep us posted.






That's crazy a motor mount ternrd into all motor mounts, a starter AND a transmission???

musty hustla

I'm puzzled as well. Most dealerships have a sub-$200 diagnostic fee that is paid when the issue isn't covered by warranty. I don't understand the $700. If the dealer is confident a tear-down is required, the dealer should pre-auth the work with Acura--not the OP.

winstrolvtec

Hey Doc, first, sorry that you are having trouble, hope it ultimately gets resolved. If I were you, I would "try" to find a dealer who would offer to fully diagnose the issue with no upfront cost, however being that you are in the limited phase of the warranty, it's a lot harder, they know they are getting paid regardless of what it is under the full as opposed to the limited which is obvious enough.

The dealer who is willing to do so, will most likely have different (maybe better) techs who would be more confident with their initial diagnosis which would at least make you feel a lot less threatened and also the dealer has a more positive outlook about going ahead no cost, which makes you feel better about going ahead with the process even in the event it ends up not being a warranty repair and it comes out of your pocket even if you just decide to get rid of it and not fix the consumption issue. If they do it for no upfront cost, perhaps they would be a little more "insistent" that this is a covered problem so they get paid directly.

I think that even if it isn't a warranty repair, you are ultimately on the hook for the diagnostic at least anyway, again that's why I would try to find another dealer, $700 is too much. As far as the $129, it is not totally unreasonable, sounds fair and is operating in good faith as a deposit, however the $700 is not IMO. You will likely sign off and be liable for any amount that isn't covered anyway but wanting it all upfront or a lot wouldn't sit well with me either. Even if it doesn't end up being needed, that would make anyone think they wouldn't give it their best effort or operate in good faith to even find a true cause and/or were trying to steer it towards a non warranty repair and leave you still stuck with the issue and an expensive diagnostic.

As far as I know though, the dealer wants to find and fix the problem and get paid for it, that is their business after all, honestly think they would rather it be a covered repair because it's easier and they know they get paid for it. I would imagine they often get stiffed in these situations and have to deal with a lot more than just the car. Again part of the reason why a small amount to cover their costs might be justified.

Had a family member with a faulty actuator related to the transmission in a CRV, discovered when the service light come on, never had any mechanical related problems but the car was showing one nonetheless. The car was covered by the factory powertrain and also an extended with a small deductible, think $50.

In any event the problem ends up being powertrain but excluded in the factory warranty in clear enough language. The second warranty kicks in anyway so no big deal in but not after some discussions and exchanges about it being covered under the factory powertrain, turns out it's not. The manger was nice enough about it, I asked if he could take another look it to make sure it wasn't covered with a cough and wink so to speak and he replied that he wished it was factory covered as it's better for him (whatever that means) but it's clear cut in any event and so there was nothing he could do. Anyway, I think the real issue is that some parts of these warranties are not as inclusive as we think and the dealers are afraid of losing on that.

Anyway, again try to find "that" dealer and if not go back to this one and try to hold them to the $129 they originally quoted, then insist that you already paid for an oil sensor that was not the problem and should be owed a refund and so you're more than even, unless of course you singed off on anything prohibiting that in which case the $129 is not that bad IMO and if not with them for the trust factor then maybe another, again perhaps at no cost but at least the $129 and not some $700. In any event I would push for that refund. Good luck and as said, keep us posted.

NBP04TL4ME

Just curious if there are any updates?

JT4

^^Me too, anything new?

cltgt

The dealer ship gets paid for doing warranty work. Most like to do it because if the cost is high, the customer will still do it since it isn't coming out of their pocket. Especially if it is an aftermarket warranty. So, they will go through everything and find out any problems the car is having. Because of the vibration, they said transmission may have had issues. We used to do that when I worked at a dealership.

NBP04TL4ME

I guess my point was that the dealership will look into anything the owner raises as a question or concern. If you asked about a vibration or specifically called out a motor mount I could see this potentially translating into other motor mounts. And maybe even they noticed a issue with the starter while they had the car, but then the transmission!!! Just seems like a lot to be found by the dealer and not mentioned or noticed by the owner.

Mr Marco

cltgt

True. I probably mentioned transmission was acting funny and asked them to check it out.

dirtyo2000

First of all warranty work is the cheapest of repairs and shops really don't make what you think. Not always checked but they have to prove the bad part if ever checked. They get the flat rate pay from a mechanics book and not by the hour. If a trans pull is 4 hrs they get paid 4 hours and not their shop hourly rate.
Take longer than 4 hours and you only get paid for 4 hours.

Work on a car not under warranty and that same job is worth the hours that it takes under their rate. Miss diagnosis and you don't get paid. Reason a lot of shops hate major warranty work. It's guaranteed to get money but not as much.

cltgt

Never claimed they got paid a lot for it, just that they got paid. Of course, you want non-warranty work. But, it doesn't always happen. Lot of times, customers will shop for a better price and wind up going somewhere else. Either way, I just hope he gets his car fixed.

docboy

https://acurazine.com/forums/problem...-905239/page3/

/\ Linking my original thread.

Update after a few months:

I've been very busy at the office, and am still having excessive oil consumption. Acura Care case manager has not returned any of my calls, and I frankly am not willing to deal with Acura or said dealership anymore. I have very few moments to spare during the working hours of the weekday.

A couple of months ago with the oil at 50% life or so I had to add 2+ QTs of oil before any oil finally showed up on the dipstick (the oil initially did not register on the dipstick again; it took 2+ Quarts of oil before the oil registered halfway point between high and low markings on the dipstick.

Today with the oil at 20% or so, the oil is barely showing up on the dipstick, and well below the low mark. So I suspect the oil consumption is getting worse.

So I have 10 month left of powertrain warranty (which at this point has not done any good). Currently I am left with 4 options:

1) Continue to add oil every couple of months and just deal with it until I get another car (which will not be an Acura) via selling or trading in the car
2) Continue to add oil every couple of months and drive it until the engine is fried, which at that point the car will have very little trade in value
3) Sell/trade the car in the near foreseeable future while the engine still functions.
4) Write a registered mail to Acura Corp and see what happens.

For those familiar with oil consumption issue, what are the long term ramifications to excessive oil consumption? Engine replacement?