Axle Play/Knocking
01-01-2017, 12:41 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Axle Play/Knocking
I've been having some strange knocking sounds on acceleration, and after doing some research, it appears that our cars (Acura/Honda in general) tend to have the inner CV joints fail pretty quickly. I apologize for the poor quality in advance, but I recorded some videos of the amount of play that I'm seeing in the axles when off the ground. I was wondering if anyone could chime in on whether or not this appears normal or abnormal. While driving, symptoms include a knock when going from P to D, knock when accelerating after letting off the gas in 4th through 6th gear, and a harsh knock when the car downshifts while slowing down when braking (the entire car will jerk around for a brief second). The knock sounds very similar to when I was doing it by hand in the videos.
I'm also getting a vibration at 75mph+, but I mostly feel it in the body and not in the steering wheel. I had the front tires rebalanced, and I also flipped them around, with no change. Today I just did a regular tire rotation, so I will see if maybe the vibration moves to the steering wheel due to possible tire balance on the rears. Another possibility could be bent wheel. The vibration may not be related, so I'll just focus on the knocking for now.
Here are the two videos I recorded. You'll have to ignore the loud resonating clang in the second video, that's just the wheel studs clanging on the brake rotor. I didn't have enough hands to hold everything in place while recording. I can move the axles laterally roughly an 1/8", and about the same amount axially. I can also rotate the wheel quite a bit, but it's hard to tell if it's actually the axle moving, or the transmission moving with it.
Here are some threads potentially related to what I am seeing, but there did not seem to be too many people with this similar issue.
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...market-949215/
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-t...75-mph-914738/
https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-...anyone-914051/
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...atedly-932701/
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...-maybe-936852/
I tried recording the knocking sound while driving, but it was just too difficult to capture it on camera. Thanks in advance guys.
I'm also getting a vibration at 75mph+, but I mostly feel it in the body and not in the steering wheel. I had the front tires rebalanced, and I also flipped them around, with no change. Today I just did a regular tire rotation, so I will see if maybe the vibration moves to the steering wheel due to possible tire balance on the rears. Another possibility could be bent wheel. The vibration may not be related, so I'll just focus on the knocking for now.
Here are the two videos I recorded. You'll have to ignore the loud resonating clang in the second video, that's just the wheel studs clanging on the brake rotor. I didn't have enough hands to hold everything in place while recording. I can move the axles laterally roughly an 1/8", and about the same amount axially. I can also rotate the wheel quite a bit, but it's hard to tell if it's actually the axle moving, or the transmission moving with it.
Here are some threads potentially related to what I am seeing, but there did not seem to be too many people with this similar issue.
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...market-949215/
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-t...75-mph-914738/
https://acurazine.com/forums/fourth-...anyone-914051/
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...atedly-932701/
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...-maybe-936852/
I tried recording the knocking sound while driving, but it was just too difficult to capture it on camera. Thanks in advance guys.
Last edited by jefflikesbagels; 01-01-2017 at 12:45 PM.
01-01-2017, 07:23 PM
#2
A bad axle may be the problem, I don't know. I don't think Honda/Acura has any more axle problems than other makes. I've owned many front drive cars, and I've never had to replace an axle that didn't have a cracked and leaky boot. Your boots look intact and normal.
01-01-2017, 11:19 PM
#3
The first video, yep, thats bad. Mine does the same... I am ordering both this week.
Edit: apparently we share axles with the ridgeline, so maybe they are cheaper from a Honda dealership, I'll investigate...
Edit: apparently we share axles with the ridgeline, so maybe they are cheaper from a Honda dealership, I'll investigate...
01-03-2017, 06:13 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
If you plan on doing the work yourself, shoot me a PM and I can send you a copy of the service manual. There are dozens of pages for just assembling/disassembling the CV joints themselves, but I'm not sure if all that comes pre-assembled when you order the driveshaft assembly:
DRIVESHAFT - HALF SHAFT for 2012 Acura TL SEDAN
Edit: Well the exploded diagrams certainly look the same for the Ridgeline:
http://estore.honda.com/honda/parts/view-honda-parts-catalog-detail.asp?m=2012-ridgeline-4-rt-mfg-us1-5at&sn=&b=B++21&dl=
The part numbers are similar but not the same:
2012 Acura TL:
Right: 44305-TK4-A12
Left: 44306-TK4-A11
2012 Honda Ridgeline:
Right: 44305-SJC-A11
Left: 44306-SJC-A11
I'd definitely be worried about spending $300+ on axles, have the front end all apart, then only to find out it won't fit! More investigation required...
Last edited by jefflikesbagels; 01-03-2017 at 06:20 PM.
01-04-2017, 05:15 AM
#5
hi Jeff:
What I see at the usual Acura parts web sites is: left 44306-TK4-A00, right 44305-TK5-A00 for the 09 to 11 models, all of them, AWD, base, etc. I guess you have the '12 so your numbers are different. Also the price of the right one includes the return of the old core so its cheaper than if you buy it without returning the core. Now, consider shipping and how heavy that thing is, better buy off-line from a dealer instead having to deal with packaging, shipping, etc.
Sadly I don't see a Honda model that uses that part. Even more sadly (lol) it seems to me as of lately both Acura and Honda have equal their parts prices for the same parts! That wasn't always the case. So, better get the one they list for your '12 instead of making a mistake.
Also what I was thinking that perhaps the issue with the "play" is not on the axle but on the transfer case. That is the really bad news LOL. Hope that is not the case. I'll have a mechanic (non-dealership guy) take a look at it before I go buying stuff.
Thanks for the offer for the shop repair manual, but I already have it. I believe someone posted a link here a long time ago to download it. The process to change the axles seems straightforward and I am sure lots of penetrating oil (like PB blaster) will help remove some of the old bolts and nuts around that area. Usually the through-bolt connecting the fork with the lower arm is stuck, or at least it was on my past 3 honda/acura products, so I expect much the same here. Best thing to do is not remove that bolt to remove/install the axle but cut the old axle and for the new axle install, disassemble the inner boot and once you put it through the fork, re-assemble it. Unless you want to cut the fork too and get a new one LOL.
You mention the sway bar links, I recall a thread here where people were complaining about a noise when going over bumps etc, so if it doesn't sound like something is grinding/knocking/etc when you are on a bad road then these are ok.
What I see at the usual Acura parts web sites is: left 44306-TK4-A00, right 44305-TK5-A00 for the 09 to 11 models, all of them, AWD, base, etc. I guess you have the '12 so your numbers are different. Also the price of the right one includes the return of the old core so its cheaper than if you buy it without returning the core. Now, consider shipping and how heavy that thing is, better buy off-line from a dealer instead having to deal with packaging, shipping, etc.
Sadly I don't see a Honda model that uses that part. Even more sadly (lol) it seems to me as of lately both Acura and Honda have equal their parts prices for the same parts! That wasn't always the case. So, better get the one they list for your '12 instead of making a mistake.
Also what I was thinking that perhaps the issue with the "play" is not on the axle but on the transfer case. That is the really bad news LOL. Hope that is not the case. I'll have a mechanic (non-dealership guy) take a look at it before I go buying stuff.
Thanks for the offer for the shop repair manual, but I already have it. I believe someone posted a link here a long time ago to download it. The process to change the axles seems straightforward and I am sure lots of penetrating oil (like PB blaster) will help remove some of the old bolts and nuts around that area. Usually the through-bolt connecting the fork with the lower arm is stuck, or at least it was on my past 3 honda/acura products, so I expect much the same here. Best thing to do is not remove that bolt to remove/install the axle but cut the old axle and for the new axle install, disassemble the inner boot and once you put it through the fork, re-assemble it. Unless you want to cut the fork too and get a new one LOL.
You mention the sway bar links, I recall a thread here where people were complaining about a noise when going over bumps etc, so if it doesn't sound like something is grinding/knocking/etc when you are on a bad road then these are ok.
Last edited by Tonyware; 01-04-2017 at 05:19 AM.
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jefflikesbagels (01-05-2017)
01-04-2017, 01:46 PM
#6
Keeping TL until 2029
@Tonyware - where did you find this issue " , I recall a thread here where people were complaining about a noise when going over bumps etc " I am getting a slight squeaking noise when going over speed bumps. I just noticed it recently. I feel like I want to yank the shafts when I change my winter tires to my summer tires in the spring.
01-04-2017, 06:03 PM
#7
^ In the root of the "problem and fixes" section, look at the top right for the search link and type in "sway bar links". A few threads come up in the search results. Actually one points to a service bulletin related to ball joints: https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p.../#post15721264
Lots of research required. At least if you go to a dealer with that complain you may want to point out to them that service bulletin. Not related to the sway bar links, but at least you may get somewhere.
Lots of research required. At least if you go to a dealer with that complain you may want to point out to them that service bulletin. Not related to the sway bar links, but at least you may get somewhere.
The following users liked this post:
echodigital (01-05-2017)
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01-05-2017, 07:56 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
hi Jeff:
What I see at the usual Acura parts web sites is: left 44306-TK4-A00, right 44305-TK5-A00 for the 09 to 11 models, all of them, AWD, base, etc. I guess you have the '12 so your numbers are different. Also the price of the right one includes the return of the old core so its cheaper than if you buy it without returning the core. Now, consider shipping and how heavy that thing is, better buy off-line from a dealer instead having to deal with packaging, shipping, etc.
Sadly I don't see a Honda model that uses that part. Even more sadly (lol) it seems to me as of lately both Acura and Honda have equal their parts prices for the same parts! That wasn't always the case. So, better get the one they list for your '12 instead of making a mistake.
Also what I was thinking that perhaps the issue with the "play" is not on the axle but on the transfer case. That is the really bad news LOL. Hope that is not the case. I'll have a mechanic (non-dealership guy) take a look at it before I go buying stuff.
Thanks for the offer for the shop repair manual, but I already have it. I believe someone posted a link here a long time ago to download it. The process to change the axles seems straightforward and I am sure lots of penetrating oil (like PB blaster) will help remove some of the old bolts and nuts around that area. Usually the through-bolt connecting the fork with the lower arm is stuck, or at least it was on my past 3 honda/acura products, so I expect much the same here. Best thing to do is not remove that bolt to remove/install the axle but cut the old axle and for the new axle install, disassemble the inner boot and once you put it through the fork, re-assemble it. Unless you want to cut the fork too and get a new one LOL.
You mention the sway bar links, I recall a thread here where people were complaining about a noise when going over bumps etc, so if it doesn't sound like something is grinding/knocking/etc when you are on a bad road then these are ok.
What I see at the usual Acura parts web sites is: left 44306-TK4-A00, right 44305-TK5-A00 for the 09 to 11 models, all of them, AWD, base, etc. I guess you have the '12 so your numbers are different. Also the price of the right one includes the return of the old core so its cheaper than if you buy it without returning the core. Now, consider shipping and how heavy that thing is, better buy off-line from a dealer instead having to deal with packaging, shipping, etc.
Sadly I don't see a Honda model that uses that part. Even more sadly (lol) it seems to me as of lately both Acura and Honda have equal their parts prices for the same parts! That wasn't always the case. So, better get the one they list for your '12 instead of making a mistake.
Also what I was thinking that perhaps the issue with the "play" is not on the axle but on the transfer case. That is the really bad news LOL. Hope that is not the case. I'll have a mechanic (non-dealership guy) take a look at it before I go buying stuff.
Thanks for the offer for the shop repair manual, but I already have it. I believe someone posted a link here a long time ago to download it. The process to change the axles seems straightforward and I am sure lots of penetrating oil (like PB blaster) will help remove some of the old bolts and nuts around that area. Usually the through-bolt connecting the fork with the lower arm is stuck, or at least it was on my past 3 honda/acura products, so I expect much the same here. Best thing to do is not remove that bolt to remove/install the axle but cut the old axle and for the new axle install, disassemble the inner boot and once you put it through the fork, re-assemble it. Unless you want to cut the fork too and get a new one LOL.
You mention the sway bar links, I recall a thread here where people were complaining about a noise when going over bumps etc, so if it doesn't sound like something is grinding/knocking/etc when you are on a bad road then these are ok.
That's actually one thing I forgot to check while I had the wheels off, the ball joints. I can't imagine the ball joints causing my knock on acceleration, and I don't get a knock over bumps, so I doubt it's that. But, I will check them anyways just to eliminate one more thing.
04-16-2017, 12:43 PM
#9
Hey... got your PM. I got the shafts but no time to do this now. ACtually now I see your video again... moving in-out is short of ok, moving up and down is not. Mine move up/down when you shake them, but in-out I have been told recently by a tech its ok because of the joint in the boot. So, maybe your case is totally different.
Also the ball joints on honda/acura in general when they are gone they make a screeching noise, not knocking.
I'll try to shoot a video next time I can get that close... its raining lol and these days in office business clothes is not easy
Also the ball joints on honda/acura in general when they are gone they make a screeching noise, not knocking.
I'll try to shoot a video next time I can get that close... its raining lol and these days in office business clothes is not easy
Last edited by Tonyware; 04-16-2017 at 12:47 PM.
01-03-2019, 09:51 AM
#10
1st Gear
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I just started looking at this forum and I'm attempting the install and I had AK Audio make a thinner adapter plate for 15.00 that seems to work well. I started the install just waiting for the Noico sound deading to come in. It may be something to look into to make the install easier, also I ordered the same subwoofer from Wal-Mart for around 55 and that included shipping.