mossman77

Anyone install these on their 4G TL SH-AWD? Any noticeable gains? Is this a fairly easy install?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

yes and yes and yes and yes..
hurry up and buy.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

side note; SHOULD you mod your car if you're still chasing hesitation issues? I think adding more pieces to the puzzle will ONLY complicate your troubleshooting process...

mossman77

Problem is I'm not positive that I have issues. It may be "normal" for this vehicle to accelerate slowly below 3k for the sake of gas mileage and take off over 3k.

Others are experiencing the same thing: https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-p...roblem-918169/

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^oh yeah, that's the characteristics of the engine....
pushing like 150lbs of torque below 3000 RPM..
at 5000 RPM you hit peak torque of 250lbs..

I see your thinking of modding it now...
however; temper your expectations....it's true that the ported intake manifold runners will yield torque gains..the gains are VERY modest.
with the p2r intake manifold spacer and ported runners and a tune; you'll gain about 8-10lbs of torque.
in the grand scheme of things; it's very little. however, if squeezing out all available power is your goal...

mossman77

Thing is sometimes it does pull nicely below 3k. Its seems to be when the car hasn't reached operating temperature and/or the ambient air is cool and dry. I realize the engine loves cool dry air, but I'm curious if the ECU can be programmed to run like this all the time without having to be over 3k. Am I correct that 3k is when the variable runners open up?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

at 3.5-4k, a butterfly valve in the intake manifold itself opens..
at 4900, the camshaft changes profile to a higher lift profile...(this is called vtec, variable valve timing & lift electronic control)

mossman77

Something is drastically changing at the 3k mark for my vehicle, so I'm assuming it is this butterfly valve. I was curious if the tuner could allow this valve to open sooner.

It seems like the more I mash the pedal, the more sluggish the car is. Whereas if I let off the pedal, it will accelerate quicker. Guess this is just the nature of some drive-by-wire vehicle where computers control everything.

Yes, I am familiar with the functionality of VTEC.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the thread you linked; also described that...."ease into throttle, it gets going faster"
sounds like it's the throttle pedal software tuning. sounds like Acura tuned the software for the accelerator pedal to do this on purpose.
I'm not sure if you can re-program the pedal sensitivity.

dopeboy1

Does it also drive like that in sport mode? I find my car can be hit or miss in regular drive mode. Sometimes it does nothing and other times it takes off so fast like faster than it ever does in sport mode. In regular drive mode I have to give it a lot of gas right off the line and it always takes off. If I hesitate a moment before I give it a bunch of gas then it will fall on its face and go nowhere. I feel like it has to do with what gear its in. In sport mode its always the same though.

mossman77

It doesn't make a difference if it's in sport mode or regular mode, traction control on/off, etc. I was in manual mode in 1st gear the other day sitting at a light. Light turned green and the car let me down big time. I was like WTF!? Another test I did the other day was driving about 35 in 3rd gear, just under 3k RPM, floored it and virtually nothing happened. It slowly creeped up to 3k, after which it took off as expected.

Maybe I should get a piece of wire and tie this butterfly valve open

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it runs off an actuator.
and the old days of the 2G TL and CL, they were disabling the butterfly.

interesting to note; I swapped intake manifolds with someone who had theirs ported and polished...I received the intake manifold with a broken butterfly.
Open up the intake manifold and check to see if it's intact! manifold cover bolts are 8lbs/ft...dont over tighten them..a little more than finger tight.

mossman77

I read there is more low end power with the butterfly closed, so even if it weren't working (pretty confident it is), I don't believe it would make a difference down low.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

another thing to note; 3rd gen TL'ers reporting the same no low end torque on some days but not others....reported that buying a new stronger battery fixed the issue. anecdotal at best

mossman77

Interesting. I recently installed a new battery and high output alternator. I haven't finished the big 3 upgrade though, so that is a choke point.

mossman77

What is the likelihood that the TPS sensor or pedal position sensor is going bad? Or even a dirty oxygen sensor providing the incorrect feedback. Are there any sensors that transition to open loop once the engine exceeds 3,000 RPM? BTW, my car burns about 1/2 quart every 1,000 miles, so the O2 sensor issue seems conceivable.

mossman77

..average gas mileage is about 17 mpg as well, which seems really lousy. What about EGR valve? If it wasn't clear there is no check engine light on, so it's a bit of a guessing game.

mossman77

The following TopSpeed review of the 2010 TL states the butterfly valves open at 4,000 RPM for the 3.7L SH-AWD (my model) and VTEC at 4,700 RPM (search page for "2-piece" to locate section). If this is the case, what the hell is occurring at 3,000 RPM that is making such a huge difference in my acceleration? It's like there's a rubber band tied to the bumper holding me back, then releasing it as soon as I hit 3k. It really is that abrupt of a change. https://www.topspeed.com/cars/acura/...l-ar80141.html

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

here's my dyno...yes, you are correct. the dip in the graph at 4000RPM is the butterfly.
(when we were discussing it earlier this morning, I couldnt remember when the buttefly opens, thus my guess)

Rancher2005

Not related to ported runners but also have some oil consumption. This is what I believe led to my catalyst efficiency below threshold CEL code last week. After reset it went away and hasn't come back. P0430. Will be inspecting the cyclinders with a borescope when I do my plugs soon to look at that in a similar way the most recent Acura TSB suggests when determining if the block needs to be replaced for excess oil consumption. I think a tune (e-tune or dyno) would help your throttle response be more direct like a cable, rather than drive by wire. This might be throttle tip-in, similar to the way the sprint booster adjusts. A compression test would help indicate whether or not the performance concern is related to oil consumption.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I have the P&P runners. Like Justn said, the gains are modest. It seems that most bolt-ons have a somewhat synergistic effect by increasing overall air flow. I doubt you'd notice any huge gains on its own but it helps when combined with exhaust work.

If you have over 80K miles or so, you might try changing your upstream A/F O2 sensors. They're not cheap, around $80-$110 each. You'll want to use OEM (Denso). I replaced mine and admittedly, didn't notice a huge difference. But since they're critical to the ECU determining fuel trim and air/fuel ratio's, they have the potential to really goof up power and mileage when not working correctly. Also, burning oil can foul them up over time. You can try cleaning them by removing them and using something like CRC electric cleaner or even soaking them in some sort of solvent for a few hours. That might help remove any carbon buildup.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

in your Bluetooth OBDII thread; you mentioned your injectors werent cycling or working...?
how did the car feel when the injectors werent properly working?
just curious and maybe OP has bad injectors?

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

I don't recall talking about that. Either early Alzheimer's is kicking in or I was talking about something else. Do you have a thread link?