SSFTSX

I could have gotten 06 RL CPO with my 06 TSX. Such is the desperate position of RL. TL is going the same way. Why would some one by TL when 06-08 RL are available for cheaper price and car is far more elegant/feel Luxurios/Aerodynamic

PetesTL

Exactly, right, Colin. Honestly, why would someone who claims the TSX to be the greatest thing since sliced bread care what happens to the TL? I mean the guy has put up at least a dozen posts so far coming up with every conceivable reason why the TL has failed. You would think that someone who owns a TSX or any other Acura would have the intelligence to want the TL to succeed....so that Acura would take the profits and have enough funds to develop better and better cars and technology. The TL is Acura's bread-and-butter......If the TL fails, that mean bad news for all other Acuras to come. SSFTSX has some serious insecurity issues.

SSFTSX

I want Acura to succeed thats i want them to put improvements into TSX as quickly as possible. Like V6 engine/Sport Suspension/LED lights/upgrades Australlian 18" Rims. Acura is not going to succeed by there overdone/oversize car.

Colin

Ironically, the main criticism of the RL is that is was no bigger than the TL/Accord. I can't speak for what the American buyer wants (any more than you can), but I will say that every time Honda makes the Accord bigger, it sells more. Based on these two points, I think your opinion on the TL may fly in the face of history.

SSFTSX

Accord is a family car. Nothing wrong with making it slightly bigger than competion. But you cant do that with sports luxury sedan for performance.
Why do u think Maxima interior volume is smaller than Altima but priced higher.
Acura RL won comparision tests at Edmund and design is quite elegant compare to 04-08 TL and certainly 09 TL. RL was priced alittle higher when it was introduced. but now CPO cars are well priced and new one looks kills TL. I would rather have 09 RL than TL-SH-AWD. 09 TL does not bring anything to table that CPO RL cannot do at much lower price.

KeithL

I don't want to double post, but I put my SH-AWD vs. A4 post in my thread I had already going on my reviews...

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...6#post10235876

SSFTSX

Audi New Navigation system is coming next year. So there will be no complaint. There are rear seat ducts also. HID on both beams.


http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/05/a...l-debut-in-q5/
Audi's new MMI system will debut in Q5
Audi's next-gen Multi-Media Interface (MMI) technology will debut in the new Audi Q5 compact crossover arriving later this year. Built by Harmon/Becker Automotive Systems, it is reportedly going to set benchmarks for automotive navigation, communication, and wide-screen entertainment

SSFTSX

http://skattertech.com/2008/08/nvisi...di-navigation/
Audi was present at Nvision 08 and I had a chance to get the scoop on some new gadgetry which should begin to appear in new Audi cars in the near future. One of Audi’s employees demonstrated some of the upcoming upgrades to their navigation systems. The new system, entitled “Multi Media Interface (MMI),” will feature voice commands that does not require training, 3D maps, and a music library stored on an internal hard drive. There are plenty of other tech features, but I’ll focus on the center of it all.

The Navigation System will sport a new display with a higher resolution and will be LED backlit for sharper colors. It will support playback of DVD movies, but only when the car is parked. Like more cars today it has full support to allow hands free access to Bluetooth enabled phones. But as a bonus it will allow dictating numbers to dial or even saying names in your phonebook without having to program your voice for ever possible combination. The upcoming cars featuring this new system will have a 40GB HDD and two SD card readers built-in. Unfortunately the car doesn’t allow ripping tracks from inserted CDs due to copyright restrictions, however it will allow copying downloaded music from those SD cards. (MP3, WMA, & AAC supported!) Additional options for a USB port to allow use of flash drives will also be an option. The MMI system also supports adding support for Apple iPod devices or AUX analog inputs, which will probably also cost extra.
The main reason Audi was at Nvision was because their new MMI systems will be sporting Nvidia graphics chips inside the dashboards. The chips will be used to generate good looking 3D graphics rapidly. Many city centers will have 3D building models and topographical terrain maps. It looks quite similar to what is currently available in Google Earth. All the 3D content will be generated in real-time while providing turn-by-turn directions. According to the Audi rep, the graphics chip has been specially designed to withstand high and low temperatures while being able to absorb large amounts of shock, which would be important since it’s part of a vehicle. The GPS data with those 3D maps and voice prompts will apparently takes up around 25GB of data. When it comes time to upgrade to the latest sets of maps, dealers will apparently be able to simply install the updated content pack onto the Audi’s HDD
MAP of San Francisco down town.

CL6

I saw that in SF too. Cool eye candy but do I want all that crap moving around while I'm driving? No.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree, I would hope they have a much more simplified view for when you are actually driving.

The map thing would be nice to switch into if you are looking for land marks but is way to cluttered for normal driving.

I don't have factory nav in my TL & use a Garmin which is very easy to take a quick look at.

cg2006TSX

Acura once enjoyed a strong rep for their nav offerings.

No more.

They should take a lesson from BMW re: controller-based nav. The new iDrive blows Acura away, but still...

...Audi MMI & Nvidia FTW!

KeithL

While I have no expireicne with BMW iDrive, I have looked at Lexus/Toyota, Nissan/Infiniti and VW/Audi and while each has some nice bells and whistles Acura is by far the most intuitive and easy to use and the best access via controller use or voice activation in my opinion.

cp3117

I would have to say that the Audi is much more refined overall compared to the TL and its not just my opinion but the many expert journalists throughout the world. Audis are known throughout the industry as the benchmark for interior design.

The TL has a very nice luxurious looking interior but the Audi is luxurious. It seems better designed for the driver and quality of materials, build etc are just nicer.

When it comes to handleing we still have to see how the Audi comparably equipped comares to the TL. The Std Audi with 18" tires does very well compared to the TL with the HPT package but for some reason they never want to test the Audi with its optional 19" performance tire pkg.

As far as Price to features go, people here always compare the german brands to Acura and then add thousands more in options to the german brands and then say its overpriced........never understood why they do that.
Even KeithL just did a nice review of the A4 and found that equally equipted thay are similar in price.....just look at their websites.

SSFTSX

Have some one look at GS-350AWD. 303bhp. It can do 5.3sec 0-60. They tested it at $49K price. quater mile at 13.8 Sec @101.8. Performance pretty close to 335XI with bigger car.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4851

Legend2TL

I agree in the past but I just looked at a new 2009 Audi A4 2.0T inside recently and it's quality of plastic and fittings look like a step down from the previous A4's. The previous A4's interior's quality looked better than my 3G TL. While I do not like the exterior styling on the 4G TL, it's quality of materials and construction (plastic, trim, leather, gaps, joints, fittings) look better than the new A4. The Audi looks closer to the new Honda Accord in it's quality of the plastic.
Can't say if either has less rattles than my 2005 3G (down to just one rattle!)

S2000 Driver

That is without Navigation and Premium Sound system.

Add Navigation and Premium Sound and price is $54K.

That is an $11K premium over TL SH-AWD Tech.

CL6

Yea if you're retarded it does. Watch Top Gear's review of the BMW M5 to learn just how lovely that iDrive is!

We have a 2007 5 Series here and that thing is rubbish. I'd prefer to say: "Radio 97.3" rather than click 5 menus on the BMW but that's just me.

SSFTSX

Base car is at $46K. for $8K following things are added. Some things are not in TL. But any way that $10K extra will be recouped throw depreciation over 4 year period where Lexus will still fetch $10K more than Acura TL.
Lexus has Style, Refinement, fuel economy, interior Spacious by 10cubic foot, compact size, knee airbags, above all clear Performance advantage, 0.27cd . These advantages are worth more than $10K difference over the life of the car. People dont buy car for one year. Over 4 to 5 year period Lexus will be more rewarding while people will be trading TL for less than $15K. this thing is worse design than 3G TL.



u can see from Edmunds RWD GS-350 test. 23mpg of observed fuel economy (TL can get only 19mpg), excellent NVH leves, 65.2mph slolam run. excellent braking, Edmunds tests are pretty rigours. All for $49K.

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...6/pageNumber=6

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Don't put "performance" and Lexus in the same sentence please.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

According to Edmunds- the projected operating and depreciation costs for the 09 TL & the GS350 are the same. What are you basing your opinion on?

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

^^ not cool.

SSFTSX

Edmunds is basing assumptions based on past data of Acura values. I dont think they have taken into account what TL is facing at dealership.
www.kbb.com
Less powerful 2006 GS 300 is about $7K more expensie than TL 3.2. I just cannot imagine GS 350 with superior engine, NVH and fuel economy will depreciate as much as universally detasted design like 09 TL.

IS 350/GS 350 has good performance for its price so Lexus does have performance.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

The GS350 is a relatively brand new vehicle too. Edmunds then is basing the GS350's values on past numbers as well?

I'll trust Edmunds predictions over your personal conjecture.

Sorry, a powerful V6 and RWD does not equal performance in my book. IS (350 & F)/GS have no manual tranny option, does not match engine revs in downshifts during spirited driving, zero driver feedback & numb steering= boring. This is based on my test drives of both of these vehicles. (Note- I have not test driven an ISF but at that price point I'm buying an M3 or a CTS-V)

SSFTSX

TL-SH-AWD still dont have manual transmission. and i have my doubts Acura is going to invest anything in this model in the face of sale disaster they are going to face.

Lexus GS is more tuned for comfort/refinement/fuel economy. but still it will beat any Acura in straight line performance. and is more spacious than any Acura. GS 350 has been out for two years.
I run another comparision of Acura TL Type S 2007 vs Lexus 2007 GS 350. They gap is still $7K. It is extremely likely If Acura TL price is raised to $44K. It wont depreciate faster. It happened to RL.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

The MT option will be here next year for the TL. Too bad I can't state the same for Lexus

Is the Lexus GS really that much more spacious as you say?

Lexus GS350
Seating Capacity Five
Headroom, Front (in / mm) 37.8 / 960
Headroom, Rear (in / mm) 37.0 / 940
Legroom, Front (in / mm) 43.5 / 1,105
Legroom, Rear (in / mm) 36.4 / 925
Shoulder Room, Front (in / mm) 56.3 / 1,430
Shoulder Room, Rear (in / mm) 55.1 / 1,400
Hip Room, Front (in / mm) 54.4 / 1,382
Hip Room, Rear (in / mm) 51.4 / 1,306
Trunk Capacity (cu ft/ L) 12.7 / 360

TL SH-AWD
Headroom - Front- 38.4/ 976
Headroom Rear- 36.6/ 932
Legroom Front- 42.5/1079
Legroom Rear- 36.2/919
Shoulder Room Front- 58.1/ 1477
Shoulder Room Rear- 56.2/ 1428
Hip Room Front- 55.7 / 1415
Hip Room Rear- 54.8/ 1392
Trunk Capacity- 12.5

Man- this thread has really gone off topic.

SSFTSX

Acura MT tyranny usually gets poor fuel economy than Auto Transmission. It may give split second performance difference but Auto SH-AWD is already at bottom of league interms of fuel.
There is too much risk associated with this new model interms of depreciation and cost of ownership.
Lexus GS we already know it performance/fuel economy/depreciation/refinement/compact size. It will be interesting to see 0-120mile sprint. I think Lexus will leave TL with atleast 5 second difference. At those speeds aerodynamic profile matters alot.

CL6

Considering how fast used car prices are falling I think all bets are off as to resale of just about any vehicle on the market right now. Anyway the GS is not a big seller for Lexus in the scheme of things while the TL is the 'bread and butter' car for Acura.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

The fact that a MT option will be available is good enough for me and one of the reasons my next car will not be a Lexus (not sure if it will be an Acura either). Whether or not I lose 1mpg for having a MT is really an afterthought for me.

The GS gets 19/26
The SH AWD gets 17/25

I will agree with you that the govt EPA ratings on the TL for fuel consumption is just plain bad.

As far as risk in terms of ownership and depreciation, again I defer to Edmunds' opinion on this projected analysis.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the GS but not enough to shell out the dough for it where it doesn't offer what I specifically am looking for in a luxo-sport sedan. It's a damn bore to drive.

CL6

The 'L' on Lexus is for Lame. No navi input while driving? No MT? I hear you can't even place a bluetooth call while driving. No thanks!

Hugh9269

How do you come up with these points? The manual 3G was within 1MPG compared to the Auto 5speed

Compare these:

GS350 AWD 18 / 25
335ix 17/25
TL SHAWD 17 / 25
G37 AWD 18/25

These are hardly bottom of the league.. These are all off factory sites.

I also highly doubt a 5 second difference in 0-120, please post some stats. The cars both weigh within 5 #.

SebringSilver

Road & Track magazine quotes 13.3 seconds from 0-100 mph for the Lexus GS350 AWD.

No idea what that number would be for the 4G TL SH-AWD.

SSFTSX

You put EPA. I put Edmunds tested mile per gallong. Lexus GS is the best in them. Also Roadtrack achieved 20.7mpg with AWD. So real world mpg that matters not EPA.







http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4851
List price $46,100

Price as tested $49,870

Curb weight 3745 lb

Engine, transmission 3.5-liter V-6; 6-sp automatic

Horsepower, bhp @ rpm 303 @ 6200

0–60 mph 5.3 sec

0–100 mph 13.3 sec

0–1320 ft (1/4 mile) 13.8 sec @ 101.8 mph

Top speed 130 mph*

Braking, 60–0 mph 119 ft

Braking, 80–0 mph 217 ft

Lateral accel (200-ft skidpad) 0.79g

Speed thru 700-ft slalom 62.2 mph

Our mileage, EPA city/highway 20.7, 20/27 mpg



Nissan Maxima 3.5SV at 18.8mpg. AWD G37 would be worse.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d..._datapanel.pdf



BMW 335. 0-60 at 5 sec. 335XI will be slower. Essentially at par with GS 350.
They achieve 18.9mpg. So 335XI will be worse.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4638

So best on this analysis. GS 350 comes at top interms of fuel economy and performance for its size.

SSFTSX

That is the whole issue. Lexus bread and butter Car is ES/IS. So they play safe with them in respective areas. Acura tried to combined Sport and Luxury into in TL. End result is oversized and overdone sedan with big threat to sales. u can see this that we have only 20 4G TL owners in two months but we have 120 TSX owners in 6 months. So TL is essentially competing with TSX for sales now.

cp3117

Only problem is that when you say "Radio 97.3" the fan will turn on high and blow hot air in your face.
I find the voice command in Acura very inaccurate and would prefer to click on a couple menus. A couple of my friends own a 06 RL and a 07 TL and dont even use the voice command anymore because its so annoying.

KeithL

Agreed, I have been shopping since September and the trade-in on my 3G 08 Type-S is dropping liek a rock, over $4K in less than 3 months. The new and used market is stalled.

BEAR-AvHistory

2009 tl shawd

R&T

0-100 15.7

C&D

0-100 15.8

BEAR-AvHistory

This might be of interest

C&D

2004 TL Base 6MT

0-100 14.6

MMike1981

wow

CL6

I've never had any problems using Acura or Mercedes voice recognition. Mercedes gives you the option of training your car to understand your voice but anyway in the Acura there is pretty much a button to do each thing whereas in the BMW you have 5 sub-menus to go through in order to do something. In fact I sold a car to somebody who was so busy fiddling with the iDrive in their 7 Series that they ran a light and wrecked their car.

MMike1981

After using the system in my RDX & the nav in the Accord (which is the same unit)...the thing is VERY good....its just a matter of speaking clearly w/good pronunciation & you have to know the order of wording the commands. Once you have it down, the system is actually very effective & recognizes everything, very rarely do i use the buttons.

iDrive, on the other hand, is prob the worst system created to date. Talk about creating a dangerous condition on the road, ppl cant even drive holding a cell phone, let alone trying to manipulate that thing forget it....When i take the 6 series out i can barely get the heat on with the right cd track playing before i even shift into drive. horrible