TL-SH-AWD vs Audi A4
11-28-2008, 01:50 PM
#81
Not if the TSX V-6 arrives to fill the gap. Also, you can move to the base TL for only 2900 more if all you want is a V-6.
11-28-2008, 02:06 PM
#82
TSX powered by torquier engine, 18inch rims a with aerokit is all Acura needs to provide the right car. My TSX handles better with 18inch than Stock tires.
TL design is so hideous that u cannot improvie it any way to make it sport sedan. and interior space/NVH levels are not even better than 4 cylinder TSX to conider it as pure luxury and they are asking for more price for US built models. Market will not accept it.
11-28-2008, 02:46 PM
#83
Three Wheelin'
V6 TSX will kill what ever Sales of TL left.
TSX powered by torquier engine, 18inch rims a with aerokit is all Acura needs to provide the right car. My TSX handles better with 18inch than Stock tires.
TL design is so hideous that u cannot improvie it any way to make it sport sedan. and interior space/NVH levels are not even better than 4 cylinder TSX to conider it as pure luxury and they are asking for more price for US built models. Market will not accept it.
TSX powered by torquier engine, 18inch rims a with aerokit is all Acura needs to provide the right car. My TSX handles better with 18inch than Stock tires.
TL design is so hideous that u cannot improvie it any way to make it sport sedan. and interior space/NVH levels are not even better than 4 cylinder TSX to conider it as pure luxury and they are asking for more price for US built models. Market will not accept it.
11-28-2008, 03:13 PM
#84
There's no confirmation that a V6 TSX will even make it to market. Even if it does, it will have a lot less hp and/or torque as to not compete with the TL. I've see the interior of the TSX and the TL's is miles ahead of it. Aside from the styling which is purely sujective, the new TL SH-AWD is a much superior vehicle over the TSX in every aspect. To think otherwise is lunacy.
Ur comparing 305 bph car with 201bhp car (50% more) with 70% more torque available for TL but with less than 10% tested weight difference.
I bet even if TSX gets 3.5L Honda Accord engine for maxmium fuel economy. It will still beat 3.7L TL and still will be even more quieter at higher speeds. True luxury sports sedan.
2009 TSX Auto on Stock tires.
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tsx/2009/testdrive.html
Performance
0 - 30 (sec): 3.3
0 - 45 (sec): 5.5
0 - 60 (sec): 8.6
0 - 75 (sec): 12.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.3 @ 86.0
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 8.3
30 - 0 (ft): 34
60 - 0 (ft): 133
Braking Rating: Poor
Slalom (mph): 63.9
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.79
Handling Rating: Average
Db @ Idle: 47.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 75
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 65.5
Performance
0 - 30 (sec): 3.3
0 - 45 (sec): 5.5
0 - 60 (sec): 8.6
0 - 75 (sec): 12.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.3 @ 86.0
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 8.3
30 - 0 (ft): 34
60 - 0 (ft): 133
Braking Rating: Poor
Slalom (mph): 63.9
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.79
Handling Rating: Average
Db @ Idle: 47.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 75
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 65.5
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=153144
0 - 30 (sec): 2.7
0 - 45 (sec): 4.5
0 - 60 (sec): 6.7
0 - 75 (sec): 10.0
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.0 @ 94.3
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.4
30 - 0 (ft): 27
60 - 0 (ft): 106
Braking Rating: Excellent
Slalom (mph): 67.8
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.93
Handling Rating: Excellent
Db @ Idle: 45.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 77.9
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67.8
0 - 30 (sec): 2.7
0 - 45 (sec): 4.5
0 - 60 (sec): 6.7
0 - 75 (sec): 10.0
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.0 @ 94.3
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 6.4
30 - 0 (ft): 27
60 - 0 (ft): 106
Braking Rating: Excellent
Slalom (mph): 67.8
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.93
Handling Rating: Excellent
Db @ Idle: 45.2
Db @ Full Throttle: 77.9
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67.8
11-28-2008, 03:22 PM
#85
Three Wheelin'
11-28-2008, 03:33 PM
#86
Look at figures so close to 3.7L TL. Honda Accord achieved 24.4mpg vs 19mpg for TL.
I bet 3.5L TSX Type S with performance tires is going to exceed 3.7L TL. As TSX is the most aerodynaimic car for Acura. Previous one had 0.26-0.27cd and the new one is i think either equal or better as with weaker engine and heavier weight/larger frontal area. It either exceeds or matches the the previous 1G performance with better fuel economy. These are objective figures. So no reason to dispute them.
I admit TSX Type S needs slightly upgraded interior (not in comfort or noise but style) to compete with TL/TECH.
Stock Honda Accord EX V6.
I bet 3.5L TSX Type S with performance tires is going to exceed 3.7L TL. As TSX is the most aerodynaimic car for Acura. Previous one had 0.26-0.27cd and the new one is i think either equal or better as with weaker engine and heavier weight/larger frontal area. It either exceeds or matches the the previous 1G performance with better fuel economy. These are objective figures. So no reason to dispute them.
I admit TSX Type S needs slightly upgraded interior (not in comfort or noise but style) to compete with TL/TECH.
Stock Honda Accord EX V6.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=130955
0 - 30 (sec): 2.7
0 - 45 (sec): 4.6
0 - 60 (sec): 7.1
0 - 75 (sec): 10.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.5 @ 91.8
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 127
Braking Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Slalom (mph): 61.8
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.81
Handling Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Average
Db @ Idle: 39.8
Db @ Full Throttle: 72.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67
0 - 30 (sec): 2.7
0 - 45 (sec): 4.6
0 - 60 (sec): 7.1
0 - 75 (sec): 10.7
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 15.5 @ 91.8
30 - 0 (ft): 32
60 - 0 (ft): 127
Braking Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Good
Slalom (mph): 61.8
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.81
Handling Rating (Excellent, Good, Average, Poor or Very Poor): Average
Db @ Idle: 39.8
Db @ Full Throttle: 72.3
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67
11-28-2008, 03:53 PM
#87
Another test from another source. for Manual transmission the gap is only 0.7 Seconds for 0-60 mph. The whole bottom line is there is no justification for $44K car that cannot produce sub 5.5 second 0-60mph or interior space/luxury that exceed the lesser ones.
TSX-6 MT.
TL-SH-AWD
TSX-6 MT.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ce+page-2.html
To conjure more scoot from 2354cc, the engineers shortened the manual’s gear ratios in second through sixth by an average of five percent. Our 0-to-60-mph runs dropped, too, from 7.2 seconds for our last TSX test car [February 2006] to 6.7. The EPA city mileage actually rises by 1 mpg to 20, but highway frugality holds steady at 28, as did our observed mileage at 25
To conjure more scoot from 2354cc, the engineers shortened the manual’s gear ratios in second through sixth by an average of five percent. Our 0-to-60-mph runs dropped, too, from 7.2 seconds for our last TSX test car [February 2006] to 6.7. The EPA city mileage actually rises by 1 mpg to 20, but highway frugality holds steady at 28, as did our observed mileage at 25
TL-SH-AWD
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1
This top dog’s personality is athletic, but it’s never a jock. Call it quick and mannerly. Speed in the quarter-mile is an excellent indicator of a car’s actual power to weight. By today’s standards, anything sub-100 mph doesn’t make the fast-car cut. This TL checks in at 97 mph—decent, no better. Elapsed time is testimony to traction as much as to engine vigor. The TL grips like Krylon, as you would expect of all-wheel drive. So the time slip shows an ET of 14.8 seconds, with a 0-to-60 along the way of six seconds flat.
This top dog’s personality is athletic, but it’s never a jock. Call it quick and mannerly. Speed in the quarter-mile is an excellent indicator of a car’s actual power to weight. By today’s standards, anything sub-100 mph doesn’t make the fast-car cut. This TL checks in at 97 mph—decent, no better. Elapsed time is testimony to traction as much as to engine vigor. The TL grips like Krylon, as you would expect of all-wheel drive. So the time slip shows an ET of 14.8 seconds, with a 0-to-60 along the way of six seconds flat.
11-28-2008, 07:26 PM
#88
Cruisin'
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Another test from another source. for Manual transmission the gap is only 0.7 Seconds for 0-60 mph. The whole bottom line is there is no justification for $44K car that cannot produce sub 5.5 second 0-60mph or interior space/luxury that exceed the lesser ones.
TSX-6 MT.
TL-SH-AWD
TSX-6 MT.
TL-SH-AWD
11-28-2008, 07:35 PM
#89
Three Wheelin'
Look at figures so close to 3.7L TL. Honda Accord achieved 24.4mpg vs 19mpg for TL.
I bet 3.5L TSX Type S with performance tires is going to exceed 3.7L TL. As TSX is the most aerodynaimic car for Acura. Previous one had 0.26-0.27cd and the new one is i think either equal or better as with weaker engine and heavier weight/larger frontal area. It either exceeds or matches the the previous 1G performance with better fuel economy. These are objective figures. So no reason to dispute them.
I admit TSX Type S needs slightly upgraded interior (not in comfort or noise but style) to compete with TL/TECH.
Stock Honda Accord EX V6.
I bet 3.5L TSX Type S with performance tires is going to exceed 3.7L TL. As TSX is the most aerodynaimic car for Acura. Previous one had 0.26-0.27cd and the new one is i think either equal or better as with weaker engine and heavier weight/larger frontal area. It either exceeds or matches the the previous 1G performance with better fuel economy. These are objective figures. So no reason to dispute them.
I admit TSX Type S needs slightly upgraded interior (not in comfort or noise but style) to compete with TL/TECH.
Stock Honda Accord EX V6.
The TL is Acura's most popular and successful model line. Do you honestly think that Acura will soup-up the TSX and leave the TL alone so that the TSX will canabolize the TL's sales? If or when the TSX gets a V6, you can bet Acura will upgrade the engine in the TL....either to a bigger displacement or a supercharged/turbocharged V6. Right now, the TL and TL SH-AWD will easily out-gun a TSX.....as far as handling and cornering, the TL SH-AWD will run rings around a TSX......on dry or wet pavement. And as far as interior refinement, ride, comfort, and features, the TSX can't match a TL. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
Last edited by PetesTL; 11-28-2008 at 07:39 PM.
11-28-2008, 07:38 PM
#90
Three Wheelin'
That could be very interesting sales battle. I think if interior room, especially if the back seat is not important to you, I would vote for a V-6 TSX as the sales winner. I was out and about today and looked at the TL again and I just think it looks like crap. I don't want to offend anybody but as a Honda /Acura owner since 86 I have to say they blew it with this design. Let's hope the next offering(2010 Crossover) looks better. I'm sure they drive excellent especially the SHAWD model but in this segment the car has to look and drive good.
11-28-2008, 07:58 PM
#91
The TL is Acura's most popular and successful model line. Do you honestly think that Acura will soup-up the TSX and leave the TL alone so that the TSX will canabolize the TL's sales? If or when the TSX gets a V6, you can bet Acura will upgrade the engine in the TL....either to a bigger displacement or a supercharged/turbocharged V6. Right now, the TL and TL SH-AWD will easily out-gun a TSX.....as far as handling and cornering, the TL SH-AWD will run rings around a TSX......on dry or wet pavement. And as far as interior refinement, ride, comfort, and features, the TSX can't match a TL. I'm sorry but that's the truth.
Now what happened. they increased both the size and price of TL by substantial margin. It is not only the size but overall design that is offensive. All professional Magazines dont like it.
2G TSX is more refined than TL. Edmunds test proved it. Put a turbine like Smooth V6 inside TSX and it will be even more refined.
All professional magazine and consumers like the style. Its sales are atleast comparable to old model despite very bad economy.
TL will have almost impossible task of repeating its previous success. It is the unloading of 08 TLs at throw away prices by dealers that is keeping TL sales above 2G TSX.
If they tried to further upgrade TL engine performance. It will increase the price more. There is no way TL can compete with V6 TSX in Sales no matter what engines go inside it. Just like lexus GS cannot compete with Lexus IS. TSX is still on stock tires not on 19inch rubber or SH-AWD.
http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/re...o_first_drive/
When we introduced the two-Accord strategy, there was much concern that it would lead to confusion.
“However, we have been able to sell Accord and Euro Accord side-by-side to two vastly different buyer profiles,” he says.
Even so, the difference between the two cars in 2008 is so great that Honda is claiming a new segment for the Euro . . . the Advanced Premium Sport Segment.
“In the European markets, the car is being sold against Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW,” Smalley says
When we introduced the two-Accord strategy, there was much concern that it would lead to confusion.
“However, we have been able to sell Accord and Euro Accord side-by-side to two vastly different buyer profiles,” he says.
Even so, the difference between the two cars in 2008 is so great that Honda is claiming a new segment for the Euro . . . the Advanced Premium Sport Segment.
“In the European markets, the car is being sold against Audi, Mercedes-Benz and BMW,” Smalley says
11-28-2008, 08:06 PM
#92
Three Wheelin'
TL is Acura most popular model. And the reason behind its sucess is compact size of 3rd G TL\ V6 engine with decent price and fuel economy. TSX 1G was unrefined and lacked V6 despite having decent handling and sleekr profile.
Now what happened. they increased both the size and price of TL by substantial margin. It is not only the size but overall design that is offensive. All professional Magazines dont like it.
2G TSX is more refined than TL. Edmunds test proved it. Put a turbine like Smooth V6 inside TSX and it will be even more refined.
All professional magazine and consumers like the style. Its sales are atleast comparable to old model despite very bad economy.
TL will have almost impossible task of repeating its previous success. It is the unloading of 08 TLs at throw away prices by dealers that is keeping TL sales above 2G TSX.
If they tried to further upgrade TL engine performance. It will increase the price more. There is no way TL can compete with V6 TSX in Sales no matter what engines go inside it. Just like lexus GS cannot compete with Lexus IS. TSX is still on stock tires not on 19inch rubber or SH-AWD.
Now what happened. they increased both the size and price of TL by substantial margin. It is not only the size but overall design that is offensive. All professional Magazines dont like it.
2G TSX is more refined than TL. Edmunds test proved it. Put a turbine like Smooth V6 inside TSX and it will be even more refined.
All professional magazine and consumers like the style. Its sales are atleast comparable to old model despite very bad economy.
TL will have almost impossible task of repeating its previous success. It is the unloading of 08 TLs at throw away prices by dealers that is keeping TL sales above 2G TSX.
If they tried to further upgrade TL engine performance. It will increase the price more. There is no way TL can compete with V6 TSX in Sales no matter what engines go inside it. Just like lexus GS cannot compete with Lexus IS. TSX is still on stock tires not on 19inch rubber or SH-AWD.
11-28-2008, 08:08 PM
#93
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
BMW (528i also does it in the mid 6 second range, and 535i does it in 5.7)
Lexus GS (350 does it in 5.7 seconds)
Infiniti (M35 does it in 7.08 seconds)
I guess there is no justification for these cars either? Note- I'm comparing similarly sized vehicles to the SH-AWD.
11-28-2008, 08:14 PM
#94
Well, SSFTSX, if or when that happens, everything you're talking about is just pure speculation. So don't keep saying stuff like it's a fact. What is fact is that right now, the TSX is no where near the TL SH-AWD as far as performance, luxury, refinement, comfort, and features. If or when the V6 TSX comes to market, you can go buy it, test the hell out of it, and come here and prove me I'm wrong.
What kind of Cars usually gets 4 Stars in refinement from WhatCar (the largest in British) To give u hint only MB S Class are in 5 star category. not even Acura RL can get it.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-fu...x?RT=2855#Road
Refinement
The engines are audible when driven hard, but only enough to keep you in touch with what's going on, and the absence of road and wind noise is highly impressive. The engines and gearshifts are wonderfully smooth, as we've come to expect from Honda.
Refinement
The engines are audible when driven hard, but only enough to keep you in touch with what's going on, and the absence of road and wind noise is highly impressive. The engines and gearshifts are wonderfully smooth, as we've come to expect from Honda.
11-28-2008, 08:17 PM
#95
Mercedes (E-350 does 0-60 in the mid 6 second range)
BMW (528i also does it in the mid 6 second range, and 535i does it in 5.7)
Lexus GS (350 does it in 5.7 seconds)
Infiniti (M35 does it in 7.08 seconds)
I guess there is no justification for these cars either? Note- I'm comparing similarly sized vehicles to the SH-AWD.
BMW (528i also does it in the mid 6 second range, and 535i does it in 5.7)
Lexus GS (350 does it in 5.7 seconds)
Infiniti (M35 does it in 7.08 seconds)
I guess there is no justification for these cars either? Note- I'm comparing similarly sized vehicles to the SH-AWD.
11-28-2008, 08:25 PM
#96
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
The E350 has a 3.5 liter engine.
The 528i & 535i have 3.0 liter engines.
The GS has a 3.5 liter engine.
The M has a 3.5 liter engine.
The SH-AWD has a 3.7 liter engine.
So, I'll ask again- these cars have no justification being in the 43k-50k range since they don't have a sub 5.5 second 0-60 time?
The 528i & 535i have 3.0 liter engines.
The GS has a 3.5 liter engine.
The M has a 3.5 liter engine.
The SH-AWD has a 3.7 liter engine.
So, I'll ask again- these cars have no justification being in the 43k-50k range since they don't have a sub 5.5 second 0-60 time?
11-28-2008, 08:27 PM
#97
Three Wheelin'
How do you know Acura will not tweak or modify the design mid-cycle? Have you seen the future? The 4G has only been out a couple months.....what evidence do you have that the TL is in trouble?......and even if it is, then it's only due to its design and not the economy?
11-28-2008, 08:30 PM
#98
The E350 has a 3.5 liter engine.
The 528i & 535i have 3.0 liter engines.
The GS has a 3.5 liter engine.
The M has a 3.5 liter engine.
The SH-AWD has a 3.7 liter engine.
So, I'll ask again- these cars have no justification being that they don't have a sub 5.5 second 0-60 times? They are in the 43k-50k range.
The 528i & 535i have 3.0 liter engines.
The GS has a 3.5 liter engine.
The M has a 3.5 liter engine.
The SH-AWD has a 3.7 liter engine.
So, I'll ask again- these cars have no justification being that they don't have a sub 5.5 second 0-60 times? They are in the 43k-50k range.
The other has German/Lexus prestige factor behind them. But the way there sales have fallen i am not sure this right way to follow there strategy. as High power C/IS/ BMW 335 sedans/coupe are canablizing the the bigger E/S/5/7 series. thats the reason German brands like MB/BMW are in deep trouble compared to VW/Audi.
11-28-2008, 08:36 PM
#99
I live in SF bayarea. We have the highest concentration of Acura dealers anywhere in US (u can count alteast 15 dealers in 100 mile radius) and it has been couple of months. I havent seen any TL on the road. indications of new TL are not good when i was buying my TSX or serviced my old TSX. a number of sales men were even embarsed to show new TL. They were more interested in offloading 08 TL.
11-28-2008, 08:47 PM
#100
Three Wheelin'
I live in SF bayarea. We have the highest concentration of Acura dealers anywhere in US (u can count alteast 15 dealers in 100 mile radius) and it has been couple of months. I havent seen any TL on the road. indications of new TL are not good when i was buying my TSX or serviced my old TSX. a number of sales men were even embarsed to show new TL. They were more interested in offloading 08 TL.
(FYI, it's only been 2 months and we have 19-20 new 4G owners registered in this forum......and everybody who posts here represent only a small fraction of all TL owners.......do the math).
11-28-2008, 08:49 PM
#101
You are operating on the assumption that there will be an unlimited amount of TSXs. A V-6 TSX presents a bit of a manufacturing dilemma for HMC. As far as I know, all J series V-6s are made in Anna, Ohio, The TSX is made in Japan. If they are shipping crate engines to Japan for assembly and then sending them back to NA, I would guess they'll limit production.
11-28-2008, 08:51 PM
#102
So you're saying the 4G has failed nationwide because you haven't seen one in your area for the last 2 months..........maybe they're out when you're at home posting on Acurazine. (FYI, it's only been 2 months and we have 19-20 new 4G owners registered in this forum......and everybody who posts here represent only a small fraction of all TL owners.......do the math).
(FYI, it's only been 2 months and we have 19-20 new 4G owners registered in this forum......and everybody who posts here represent only a small fraction of all TL owners.......do the math).
. I believe SF bayarea has most followers of Acura brand. that Acura integra/3GTL/TSX is parked in almost every corners of bay area cities.
11-28-2008, 08:55 PM
#103
You are operating on the assumption that there will be an unlimited amount of TSXs. A V-6 TSX presents a bit of a manufacturing dilemma for HMC. As far as I know, all J series V-6s are made in Anna, Ohio, The TSX is made in Japan. If they are shipping crate engines to Japan for assembly and then sending them back to NA, I would guess they'll limit production.
. V6 for TSX will put it in another league.
11-28-2008, 08:57 PM
#104
Three Wheelin'
When they intorduced 3 G TL Type-S. I saw it in less then week in poorest neighborhoods of San francisco. there was demand for it. Now even if i want to look for 4 G TL. i have to go to dealer.. I believe SF bayarea has most followers of Acura brand. that Acura integra/3GTL/TSX is parked in almost every corners of bay area cities.
. I believe SF bayarea has most followers of Acura brand. that Acura integra/3GTL/TSX is parked in almost every corners of bay area cities.
11-28-2008, 09:04 PM
#105
)
11-28-2008, 09:05 PM
#106
You're forgetting one important thing, buddy......the economy today is in the toilet (the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression).......of course you won't see the 4G in the poorest neighborhoods.......you won't even see any new car there! It's funny how you're comparing the success of a car whose design has been out for 4 years to a car which has just been out for only 2 months and in the midst of an economic recession....I can't continue this argument with you, man......you're too brilliant.
There plenty of new cars on the road. Especially MDX/TSX from Acura. BMW 3/Lexus IS. If 4G TL cannot succeed in SF Bayarea. It has virtually no chance in rest of the country.
11-28-2008, 09:09 PM
#107
I'm not sure you're reading what I'm saying, but here is my guess. V-6 TSX production will be capped at 10-20%. 20% of 40.000 TSX sales will be about 8000 cars. The TL production line is capable of doing 70,000 per year. The math is simple, but hey, it's all a guess right? (but I'm a good guesser )
)
11-28-2008, 09:21 PM
#108
That depends on if 4G TL can attain 70K mark. and why would they put artificial cap for TSX but not for Honda Accord/TL. It is more desirable to produce engines in US as US dollar has fallen against Yen and transportation charges are low. 3.5 V6 is pretty efficient engine. and will boost TSX sales.
In all likelyhood, TSX production will continue to be limited by demand for the Euro and Japanese Accord. The line in Japan can only make so many cars. Assuming the line is running at capacity, the addition of another model will result in less of something else. Thus a production cap.
So it flies in the face of your argument that the TSX with a V-6 option will out sell the TL. It simply cannot happen, even if the TL doesn't hit 70K.
Last edited by Colin; 11-28-2008 at 09:24 PM.
11-28-2008, 09:23 PM
#109
Three Wheelin'
Bayarea is hurt but not as much as East coast or southern california. And that depends on kind of local businesses and there interactions.
There plenty of new cars on the road. Especially MDX/TSX from Acura. BMW 3/Lexus IS. If 4G TL cannot succeed in SF Bayarea. It has virtually no chance in rest of the country.
There plenty of new cars on the road. Especially MDX/TSX from Acura. BMW 3/Lexus IS. If 4G TL cannot succeed in SF Bayarea. It has virtually no chance in rest of the country.
11-28-2008, 09:26 PM
#110
Three Wheelin'
Again, you're not reading what I'm saying. If the engines are made in the US and shipped to Japan, it will go against EVERYTHING in the 'efficient car manufacturing handbook' that HMC follows. HMC has thrived because the parts are locally sourced and many of the factories are co-located to save transportation costs.
In all likelyhood, TSX production will continue to be limited by demand for the Euro and Japanese Accord. The line in Japan can only make so many cars. Assuming the line is running at capacity, the addition of another model will result in less of something else. Thus a production cap.
So it flies in the face of your argument that the TSX with a V-6 option will out sell the TL. It simply cannot happen, even if the TL doesn't hit 70K.
In all likelyhood, TSX production will continue to be limited by demand for the Euro and Japanese Accord. The line in Japan can only make so many cars. Assuming the line is running at capacity, the addition of another model will result in less of something else. Thus a production cap.
So it flies in the face of your argument that the TSX with a V-6 option will out sell the TL. It simply cannot happen, even if the TL doesn't hit 70K.
11-28-2008, 09:35 PM
#111
Again, you're not reading what I'm saying. If the engines are made in the US and shipped to Japan, it will go against EVERYTHING in the 'efficient car manufacturing handbook' that HMC follows. HMC has thrived because the parts are locally sourced and many of the factories are co-located to save transportation costs.
In all likelyhood, TSX production will continue to be limited by demand for the Euro and Japanese Accord. The line in Japan can only make so many cars. Assuming the line is running at capacity, the addition of another model will result in less of something else. Thus a production cap.
So it flies in the face of your argument that the TSX with a V-6 option will out sell the TL. It simply cannot happen, even if the TL doesn't hit 70K.
In all likelyhood, TSX production will continue to be limited by demand for the Euro and Japanese Accord. The line in Japan can only make so many cars. Assuming the line is running at capacity, the addition of another model will result in less of something else. Thus a production cap.
So it flies in the face of your argument that the TSX with a V-6 option will out sell the TL. It simply cannot happen, even if the TL doesn't hit 70K.
11-28-2008, 09:43 PM
#112
so where is Acura RL 3.5 engine produced? If they had plans for V6 TSX they will find suitable engine for it with associated investment and they will introduce it for whole World as V6 efficiency is not that much worse than 4 cylinder. I am sure people are will to pay more for V6 as Euroaccord diesel by itself is expensive than stock engine. I will go even further as TSX is priced higher than Six Cylinder Accord. It jusfiies V6 engine alone. droping 4 cylinder all together for US market.
I'm pretty sure the world doesn't want V-6 Accords. Besides, they'll be able to buy TLs once Acura goes Global. The TSX has always cost more that a base V-6 Accord, that formula is already a proven success, they will not drop the 4 cylinder for the TSX.
Hey, wasn't this thread about the A4?
11-28-2008, 09:44 PM
#113
11-28-2008, 09:58 PM
#114
2nd Gear
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My first post on this board but I am in the market for a replacement for my '07 M45 Sport that I will return in January. I've narrowed my choice down to the A4 2.0T and the TL SH-AWD. To be honest if the TL looked a bit better this would be an easy choice, but I will have to decide if I can get used to the look of rear and the much busier dash. Looking forward to driving both cars more to make a decision.
11-28-2008, 10:03 PM
#115
Welcome to the forum.
11-28-2008, 10:05 PM
#116
And look how many RLs they sell! Seriously, the RL costs over 50,000, they can afford the cost to send engines to Japan.
I'm pretty sure the world doesn't want V-6 Accords. Besides, they'll be able to buy TLs once Acura goes Global. The TSX has always cost more that a base V-6 Accord, that formula is already a proven success, they will not drop the 4 cylinder for the TSX.
Hey, wasn't this thread about the A4?
I'm pretty sure the world doesn't want V-6 Accords. Besides, they'll be able to buy TLs once Acura goes Global. The TSX has always cost more that a base V-6 Accord, that formula is already a proven success, they will not drop the 4 cylinder for the TSX.
Hey, wasn't this thread about the A4?
It is not just Acura RL but Honda Legend that is also using V6 and they are selling it in China. RL starts at $46K. Same price as 4 years ago.
Problem with TL is it has increased price and size with style that most people will prefer to avoid. how many cars of 195inch length for personal use cars are sold anyway. Not for family. it is pretty much hopeless proposition that by avoiding V6 TSX some how TL sales can be boosted. People will just by cars from other brands if Acura didnot provide high performance engine for TSX.
I think we can pretty much forget TL competing against A4.
11-28-2008, 10:11 PM
#117
11-28-2008, 10:19 PM
#118
Suzuka Master
I live in SF bayarea. We have the highest concentration of Acura dealers anywhere in US (u can count alteast 15 dealers in 100 mile radius) and it has been couple of months. I havent seen any TL on the road. indications of new TL are not good when i was buying my TSX or serviced my old TSX. a number of sales men were even embarsed to show new TL. They were more interested in offloading 08 TL.
11-28-2008, 10:20 PM
#119
My first post on this board but I am in the market for a replacement for my '07 M45 Sport that I will return in January. I've narrowed my choice down to the A4 2.0T and the TL SH-AWD. To be honest if the TL looked a bit better this would be an easy choice, but I will have to decide if I can get used to the look of rear and the much busier dash. Looking forward to driving both cars more to make a decision.
A4 has More choices for customization for things not needed. I will go with Pearlacent paint.
TL-SH-AWD is faster in straight line performance. while A4 is quieter at higher speeds.(the quietest in sport luxury sedans). Interoir space is similar. but i think there will be better deals available for TL.
11-28-2008, 10:27 PM
#120
Look I don;t liek the 4G, but I can;t support your statements either. It takes a while to really start seeing new cars on street. The 09 TSX is out 6 months and I have seen maybe a dozen, the new TL is out 2 months and I have seen 2, and in this crappy economy this is not way to see how well a new modle is selling. Hell the G35 is in the end of the second year of the 2G and I still am lucky to see 1 or 2 a day yet the 3G TL I see like 8-10 a day, hell there are 5 in my company parking lot!! The real measure will be the TL sales figures in the coming months adjusted for the economy. They projected 70K cars a year, I beleive 3G only sold like 45-50K cars in 2004, so let's see what happens. G35 is a nice and successful car, yet its sales are off, no design to blame only economy and the high gas prices of summer.
As i said SF bayarea is the barometer for Acura sales. It has 15 dealers in less than 100 miles radius. Even more than Lexus. And surely much more than Infinit/Audi/BMW/Mercedes. do i expect to see as many G35/G37 as Acura TL? Surely No but i see more new Gs than new TL. U can pretty judge from number plates and it has only one dealer in Oakland. there is something wrong with TL that no one is willing to admit.