Colin

One more thing. You are the only one saying that they might limit production to preserve TL sales. I was only saying that the TSX won't hurt the TL because they won't make enough to dent the TL in the grand scheme of things.

The only reason I suggested the V-6 TSX was to counter your claim that the price spread was too great.

Look, with each post you move further and further away from the rational (if I do say so myself) replies I'm trying to provide. Enjoy your TSX.

PetesTL

Once again, your arguments are baseless and wrong.....you're comparing the popularity of the TSX and Infiniti G35/37, whose basic designs are 4 years old, to a brand new, totally redesigned 4G TL that's been out only 2 months in the midst of a global economic recession. So far this month in Chicago, I've seen 5 other 4G TL's.......but since you haven't seen one in the hallowed streets of S.F., it's still considered a failure in your eyes, huh?

Hugh9269

The V6 is available in the Honda Market Legend, so they could source that engine, if it actually fit in the engine bay. I dont think the Euro or American market 2G TSX was designed for that in mind.

Hugh9269

I agree, I live in Detroit which is Big 3 country and I have seen 2 4G TL's on the road and 3G TL's are quite common. Since California is a big Honda/Acura market, they cant be that rare.

PetesTL

Honestly, I'll be shocked if Acura actually went ahead and put a V6 into the TSX given the state of the auto industry and the global recession. In my opinion, the most realistic approach would be to put a deisel or a turbo 4-banger (similar to the RDX's) into the TSX. I think putting a V6 into the TSX will actually turn-off the main demographic for this car.

SSFTSX

V6 TSX will take what ever little sales TL can achieve. It is cannablization. It happend to other luxury makers when they put same power engines in smaller cars. Acura case is worse. the car is not only large but not desirable.
When a customer see a large TSX at dealership they dont wanna see bigger car than this Thats what most customers are looking for. u can see bayarea inventories of TL online. There TL inventories are more than Twice of TSX. will they achieve twice the sales. that is the big question mark.

Hugh9269

The TSX will have a diesel for the 2010 model year. The new Honda Diesel is incredible design. The RDX engine would be a nice bonus with a sport package a TSX type S maybe?

PetesTL

....don't say that.....SSFTSX will be incredibly disappointed.

SSFTSX

TSX primarily caters to Integra crowd whose income has grown up but dont want too big car and too expensive on fuel economy. Since Honda has enlarged TSX into luxury class. They have to put sports back into this car to create sports/luxury sedan. RDX engine will be fine if Hp is boosted to near 280 with SH-AWD. for price around $35 to $36K.

PetesTL

But then why pay for a $36K TSX when you can upgrade to a TL with more room and features for the same price? People buy TSX's because they are affordable....they don't buy them to see if it could outgun a TL or an Infiniti.

Hugh9269

I doubt the SHAWD in the TSX with the 240HP I-4, That would eat into TL sales, if gas hit $4 a gallon again. Does the RDX and TSX share a platform? The 240HP I4 is should be very manageable with the current design and would not be a big design change.

SSFTSX

TL/G-37 do not have more room or refinement than TSX. It is compact size , aerodynamic profile and style that is winner for TSX over TL. Trust me there is market for high power TSX with aerokit and 18inch wheels.
I see no business reason from preventing TSX having high power engine. I would even like ligher version of TSX have that 2.0 litre engine for $25K for those who needs alittle better car than Honda Civic EX-L but dont want oversize Accord.
It is same in Australlia/Europe. Those who needs performance they can have turbo. .

SSFTSX

Actually there already exist a GT version in diesel with sport suspension and body kit. If turbo intercooler can be added to diesel i see no reason it cant be done for Gasoline engine.
Honda has to make this choice very soon before sales tank due TLs and lower fuel prices lured buyers into those brands offering V6 power.

Hugh9269

How could the TL and G series have no room for refinement? The original G35 had improved every cycle as the 4G. All cars are improved every year or at least design cycle. Both the TL and TSX are based on American or Euro sourced designs, both start as V6 or I-4 FWD designs. I dont think Honda has an extra magic up there sleeve for the TSX. Lighter weight is a benefit but that adds costs and every year cars weight more since they require more added features by the consumer.

I am not doubting the small market share of a Type S TSX, but it has not been in Honda's market plans. Honda is not going to cannibalize the Accord or TL, there two biggest sellers in the larger sedan market.

PetesTL

Have you even seen a 4G TL in person or driven one? How can you say the TL is less refined and has less room than a TSX? You're so wrong it's silly to even argue this point. Like I said before, the vast majority of people who buy the TSX do so because they are affordable and economical......if you put a bigger engine in there, it raises the price and lowers fuel economy. For those that want more power, that's what aftermarket is for.

SSFTSX

TL is based on US market Accord which is simply no match to EuroAccord. Even Australlians recognized that. By introducing more powerful TSX with options. it will actually save Acura from Sales decline that is coming there way due to TL. Euro Luxury Accord is already lighter by 100Kg. By introducing 2.0L engine with turbo charged. further 200kg weight can be shaved. Honda needs to follow BMW/Audi by turbo charging both gasoline and diesle engines instead of concentrating on american way of increasing cubic capacity.

PetesTL

Based on what?......your opinions, obviously.

SSFTSX

It is pretty obvious when u put 4 cyliner high reviving engine in TL it will be less refined than TSX. which is built ground up to be more refined. Edmunds and Whatcar tests have proven it. British What car gave 3 star to Honda Legend /Acura RL but 4 star to Euro Accord. U refueses to believe that mass market car is now more refined than upp market when specialize magazine have already given there verdict.
V6 wont raise the price that much compared to putting diesel engine which is alot more expensive.

PetesTL

The TL doesn't have a 4 cyl. engine, genius. Look, this thread was all about the A4 vs. the TL......before you hijacked it and made it into a TSX glorification thread. Stop with all this speculation about how "great" the TSX will be and just accept the fact that right now, the TL is a superior car in every way. Hey, Mods, another run-away thread here going nowhere.

SSFTSX

It is the Germanic reasons thats why TSX has previous generation hertiage but TL has not because it was never meant to be.

PetesTL

Mods, do something before SSFTSX turns this whole forum into some sort of a TSX cult.

PetesTL

OK, SSFTSX, I'm done. This thread is all yours. I'm getting out of here while I still have my sanity.

kevinm

Rear passenger seat in the TL feels a bit bigger than the A4. I'd get an A5 in a heartbeat if I didn't need the rear seat for carpoolers. But the 2009 A4 definitely has added space from the previous version.

SSFTSX

A4 also has 17 cubic feet of trunk space if u carry alot of stuff.

Colin

Oh my god, I head out for dinner and this goes on and on. First off, the diesel for the USDM is on hold or canceled. I seems it cannot meet it's smog goals in automatic form and launching a manual only is not viewed as a good way to launch the new technology.

Second, If Acura were to use a V-6 I highly doubt it would be a 3.5 or 3.7. Most likely the 3.2 from years past.

Third. The TSX and TL share the same Global Mid-Sized chassis as the Accord. The RDX uses the back half of the Compact chassis but with some Mid-sized front mountings to accommodate the RL transmission and AWD system.

Fourth. There are NO plans that I have heard to put AWD in the TSX. There are NO plans that I have heard to use the gas turbo engine for future models.

SSFTSX

Why would they use 3.2 litre just to create separate category. they will most likely use 3.5L with premium fuel. I am expecting more bhp than USDM Accord.
I think Honda Motor will realize its folly very soon when it sees Acura sales tank.

SSFTSX

TSX also became finalist at Motor Trend and earn 4 Stars for interior and 2 stars for design and 3 stars in ease of use. . It got 4 stars in performance and lack Sport kit. In three categories it beats TL.
If TSX had a V6 and certain other things. I bet this would Car of Year for Motor Trend.

Colin

Huh? You're kidding right? Because they would want to create some separation between models.

Legend2TL

There is not plenty of new cars on the road, any major auto media outlet will give the significant drop to a vast majority of new car sales in the country in any area. Some models (i.e. Honda Civic) have done better. You viewpoint of what you see on the SF roads is meaningless to the sales numbers coming from the auto manufacturers.

PetesTL

Forget about arguing with SSFTSX......according to him, the TSX is the king of all Acuras and a legend.....(in his own mind, that is).

SSFTSX

Why would they based separation based on engine. what is that IS350/BMW 1/3/A4/MB C. IS-350 has more powerful engine than ES-350/GS-350. Acura will not have choice for too long as sells of both TSX/TL will be hit very hard because of lack of choice in TSX case and undesirable product in case of TL.

cp3117

Actually the 2.0T will be faster in straight line performance due to its lighter weight and very strong torque numbers.

0-80MPH is what most speed ranges people use daily and the 2.0T excells in this area when you look at fuel economy, performance etc.
Overall its a very impressive drivetrain when you look at the whole Pkg.

Over 70-80 MPH the TL will be better due to its larger engine/HP numbers, but the 2.0T is still no slouch when you get into the higher end range also.

SSFTSX

I think Front track A2.0T will be faster than TL-SH-AWD. But Quattro will be either slight less or equal to TL-SH-AWD. Audi is more aerodynamically efficient at 0.28. So it will perform well at higher speeds.
Audi has superior refinement. Audi clearly won over TL. and they were not even considering fuel economy and cargo capacity as factors.

PetesTL

Nope. I've test-driven the '09 A4...have you? I would say both cars are equally refined. The interior in the TL is better designed and more luxurious. The SH-AWD TL has better handling and cornering than the A4. The TL has a much better record of reliability than the A4. Motor Trend gave 5 stars to the TL for performance, engineering and safety......what did the A4 get? When you try to equip an A4 3.2 with the same amount of features as the TL SH-AWD, you're talking well over $46K. The A4 is a nice car but way overpriced.

SSFTSX

what speeds u have driven A4. certainly not over 80 to 90mph. When i bought my TSX. I tested demo cars on those speeds.
better handling because of 19' wide rubber. Audi is stock. and still gets better slolam run. Audi is in demand. TL is not. Audi get superior ratings in almost every professional magazine than TL. TL 5 star for performance because it is 305 bhp gas guzzler. while Audi is 2.0T thats why it got 4 stars. in other categories it pretty much trumps TL.

PetesTL

What....are you an Audi fan now? Pick one: TSX or Audi? What's next, a Dodge? One thing is certain, you hate the TL, and you're not fooling anybody. BTW, I did test-drive both the Audi 2.0T and the 3.2 at city and highways speeds. You, on the ther hand, haven't test-driven any of the cars you're talking about besides your beloved TSX. You complained about the TL being overpriced, yet your dislike of the TL makes you overlook the fact that a comparably-equipped A4 costs much more. I think it's time for you to start test-driving these cars and forming your own opinions instead of spewing random stuff you've read about in magazines......it's making you look real silly.

SSFTSX

I do test drive cars. . TL is overpriced for the shape a person is getting not in content. and not everything a person needs in package option. so Audi A4 2.0T S Line Front track $40k is perfectly fine. Audi CPO prices are beating TL.
http://www.rectoraudi.com/VehicleSea...showImages=yes


I did objective analysis for Cars in $40K range. This TL will be Acura downfall. December first is not far away for November Sales.

SSFTSX

PetesTL

The TL is overpriced for the shape? You're making absolutely no sense. You cannot get the S-Line package unless you get the $7K Prestige package. And the A4's are only available right now in the US with Quattro. Look at the A4 2.0T in the MT's COTY test......$46K+! Who's going to pay that much for a 4 cly.? I think you're living in a cave because the country right now is in a recession and all car manufacturers are hurting and losing money. In the end, though, the TL will do very well.

Colin

Or maybe.... he really wanted to have a TL but couldn't afford it and is not venting his displaced anger on the TL and its owners. Hmmmm, 'tell me about your childhood..."