Pete2010

No worries on sounding negative. I like to have things that not many other people have. Part of the reason I got the 4G. A few tweaks and you can really bring out the inner beauty (one of the major complaints).

But it's no BMW or Audi or MB, they're working towards that now, and you can see that with the 4G, it's on it's way to being in that same level, but it's not there yet, mainly because they need to ease into the changes. If they dropped on us a 50k TL with a fix for all the problems listed in this thread and more luxury feel, it would probably sell worse than the current model because people wouldn't pay 50k for a "Honda". But you'll see, over the next 5 to 10 years they'll close the gap with Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, Audi and MB, and by that time people will be more comfortable spending the money on it.

Is it the perfect car - not even close, there are plenty of other cars I would rather have, but you gotta look at price and other factors. But it's a great value for what you get. I'm going to be happy to be keeping mine for the 10 years or 100k miles that I told my wife I would. Want to pay this note off ASAP so I can live without a car payment... it's been a while.

Pete2010

Oh yea, and the rear seats don't go down... that does suck - I wonder the main reason behind that. But since I haven't had a car that the rear seats when down since my 1996 Grand Am, It's something I've lived with... it would be nice, getting a rug home one time was "interesting" to say the least....

docboy

Very lively thread

Pros:

1) Slick 6MT transmission
2) Terrific power and speed when pared w/6MT
3) Very comfy front and rear seats
4) Traditional high Acura/Honda reliability, high resale value
5) Tech laden/business like interior
6) SH-AWD system (it's rare to find a mid size, AWD, and manual transmission luxury sedan),
7) head rests that actually support the head
8) unique exterior design
9) The ability to use navigation when car is in motion; the nav systems in Lexus' are useless when the car moves. WTH is the point of nav then?
10) good gas mileage considering the V6 305hp and 3800lb weight
11) excellent price point below other comparable $50-60k sedans

Cons:

1) Rear seats don't fold down - This is my biggest gripe, esp since I have a child/family and lug stuff around. My 1G TSX had rear folding seats, and A4/335/535 have it as well. Still not sure why sure the 4G TL does not; someone mentioned it was to enhance performance and structural rigidity.

My take: I would give up a little of that performance for rear folding seats. When I have free time and after tax season, I may try to find an auto shop to "mod" my rear seats so they fold down. If anyone knows of a place in the Seattle area that does such mods, let me know

2) Rear middle seat has an AWD hump, so the middle rear passenger has limited headroom. Certainly much better than the AWD humps in the front footwells the G37x, A/S4, and IS suffers from (I traded in a 09 IS 250 AWD w/4k miles b/c of the narrow front footwells and stupid hump. The IS is the most uncomfy car ever; and I do agree, some things you just cannot find with a 20min test drive). I don't normally seat 3 in the back, so no big deal.

3) Middle console/storage compartment is a little too far back. I find myself having to arch my sore lower back and right arm to access the compartment. Or maybe it's b/c I like to sit a little closer to the steering wheel.

4) Unique exterior design. Some like it, some don't. I personally don't mind it, and appreciate my TL is unique. Wouldn't hurt to tone down the design just abit though.

Certainly the pros outweigh the cons, and it's a dam fine luxury sports sedan

winstrolvtec

That's the thing, the thread shouldn't be about a comparison as some are making it out to be. If that is the case and it continues down this road we should present the other side too and their shortcomings as well, we know others have them, but for the sake of comparison it has already become more than one sided.

This whole thread is based on what people think, now all of a sudden I can't have an opinion of another brand of car be it negative or positive but a few of you guys can have all the opinions about the TL you want, comparison based and mostly negative?

Even if you like the exterior design of the TL it is still very gaudy. The same applies to German interiors being bland. You can call those my opinions and label it subjective, which is fair but then you want to base your argument of subjectivity on another subjective matter. You don't have to agree with anything I say, I am not forcing anything on anybody but it seems the opposite does not appear to be true.

Was my post in rebuttal to yours and directed at you or something you said or did you just feel a need go out of your way to defend your position for whatever reason?

I have seen the shortcomings of the TL for two generations, yet you want to assume I buy this car strictly because of I am a fan boy and don't cross shop it with anything else, right? Whatever makes your case look stronger, bro. As a matter of fact I know about the cars shortcomings not only in general and against it's competition but even over the last generation which is more than I can say for some.

No one cares when it gets dragged out to this extent. Exactly, boo fuc*ing hoo is all that I seem to be hearing from a few individuals here over a car that was chosen nonetheless. I actually haven't replied to any one single post as opposed to you who feels as though you have to reply to posts not even directed at you. Who was it that replied to who’s post initially? Which was in no way directed at you or anyone specifically. So now you expect me back off as to somehow prove yourself right? What, you can't do that all by yourself?

Please do, I'll be here all day. Very happy, thanks for asking.

winstrolvtec

Obviously, but you are making into a one sided comparison whether you realize it or not and no one wants to go down the comparison road because it will just get closed and it's not the point of the thread. You are also taking it a bit further then maybe the OP intended as you have done in the past. We understand that this was not your first pick for a car but again pros and cons are one thing but complaining about stuff like Celsius readouts is another. There is a line of some things that can and should be improved on the car and then there are things that you know full well before you get it and should not complain this much about it after the fact.

Are you sure? Read what you post here. Sounds to me as though you would be much better off with something else. That sounds like a problem with the decision the owner made. The TL is far from perfect but it's as close to perfect as an overall vehicle can be to some but that comes down to the individuals, who’s needs and preferences tend to vary in the first place.

Maybe but then we should have a segment for reliability, resale, safety, value. You like to compare the TL to your previous Audi experiences and that's cool but then I made an example by presenting the other side or some reasons why I didn't go that way and neither did most here and few of you run to their defense (which was mostly done as an example) as I did, but when I do it for Acura or the TL, somehow I am the only one who is wrong. I know I am not the only one to see this.

You are exaggerating claims against me as much you exaggerate the cons of the TL. Just because the thread consists of some negative findings or feedback of the car doesn't mean you can hide behind it. The TL can't be perfect, nothing is but you shouldn't compare it to other cars assuming they are perfect or somehow more perfect, when that is also only your opinion. Example:

If you are going to do that, should we not also point out areas where the TL is superior or that are much nicer? Yes we should, but when I point that out, to prove a point, it is only my opinion, it's subjective or it's only by my definition but somehow it's not when a few others dothe same thing but for the "other" car. I’ve made my point.

jasonwdp10

Indeed!

grymg

New owner here! Interesting thread. Our choice basically came down to cost and styling. We were in the market for a sedan immediately (having a kid so we had to ditch the coupes) and it was going to be a Lexus ES350 nav or TL tech. We weren't into domestic cars and a BMW, Mercedes, or Infiniti cost way more. Nissan, Honda, Toyota, etc. didn't compare.

We test drove a E350. Thoughts:
1) Interior is really nice. Wood paneling, spacious. Leather is soft and non-perforated. Big center storage. Steering wheel moves up automatically when you get in and down when you close the door. I could go without the wood though. Too "old" style for us.
2) Voice was nice because you don't have to push the button everytime you talk
3) However the body is up for a remodel soon. It looks smooth but outdated to us.
4) Engine was dead quiet.
5) Rear window had a sun shade that automatically pops up
6) Big trunk space
7) Nav is touch screen
8) nicely designed stock wheels
9) backup camera doesn't have distance lines on screen

We drove a TL the next week.
1) Leather is not as soft. Interior has silver styling which we liked. Small center storage. Too many buttons. Tank-Tread style sliding cover for the cups in the center which I wasn't a fan of.
2) Nav is not touch screen. My arm gets tired holding it up for long periods of time to operate the knob. Dealer said it's because previous owners ended up breaking the screen. However the nav is higher so more in your point of view so I like it. Voice helps.
3) For voice you have to press the talk button everytime (I assume this button will be used A LOT). However in the garage testing it out it was only annoying for entering addresses.
4) Trunk space was smaller however the swivels are captured so in essence you have more vertical space.
5) head rests were too far forward for the passenger. When driving I don't notice it. However this is in the interest of safety (to prevent your head snapping back) so I don't mind.
6) Rear seats have less leg room
7) Uneasy about the exterior styling at first. But we got silver so it blends in more with the silver trim. It's growing on me. Definitely TONS MORE modern looking than the ES350. Whether it stands the test of time (we plan to own for 10 years) has yet to be seen. Love the look of the square tipped exhausts.
8) climate control and gps sun positioning is considered best in it's class
9) engine was response and sporty, F1 style sport shifters are nice.
10) stock wheels are bleh. But I wanted a smoother ride so I didn't upgrade.
11) no power movement steering wheel, all manual
12) rear window is smaller.
13) from what I hear, a fairly competitive surround sound system.
14) from my experience with Hondas and Acuras, reliability should be top notch and fixes aren't too much $$$ after the warranty expires.
15) don't see too many on the road, possibly due to the economy. I HOPE it doesn't turn out that Acura goes right to 5th gen. because of the low sales.

But overall, the TL price was about $700 less than the Lexus, it fit more our style preference, and the value is incredible considering it's in the mid 30K. My Dad's Mercedes E350 has the same features but it's 50K (it didn't have keyless entry at that time either) You have to look at the whole picture. I think it's a great car, it turns heads and is never short on power.

My favorite features:
1) You keep your keys in your pocket. . . forever!
2) backup camera, always seems to impress
3) if you close the trunk with your keys inside, it automatically opens up
4) Pretty much saying anything thru the voice feature and it happens. Amazes me everytime.

Pete2010

Excellent, congrats on the purchase!

Funny story about the Lexus LS460 my father in law had... he wasn't used to the push button start/proximity thing, and the car is so isolated, so quiet that he has left his car, engine running more than one time... It's surprising it hasn't been boosted yet, someone walks by a 80k car with the engine running and no one around... yikes

TechnoCat

The TL was designed in the U.S. and is built in Marysville, Ohio. It's as domestic as they come. More so than the "Big Three", which are built by communist unions trying to overthrow the U.S. meritocracy... which I consider to be pretty un-American.

grymg

^^true, I guess what I meant is we didn't prefer domestic brands, and the overall brand name you are buying into.

Pete2010

I grew up in MI, left as soon as I could. When my dad, who was bought GM his entire life (both his parents worked for GM), tried to give me crap about my Acura, I threw that right back at him. My Acura has more American parts in it than his Buick Regal (made in China/Canada). I don't mind the fact that my car was American made. It's when cars are made by lazy american who can't be fired... that's where the GM quality comes from... and poor design, but that's another story.

He then tried to say crap about how Honda doesn't pay as many taxes as GM because they're foreign owned... right... good one...

Ok, back on thread.... Congrats on the purchase! Can't wait to see some photos!

grymg

Sorry, no new photos yet as my garage is smaller than a rathole and the TL is much bigger than what was in there. Here's the pic I took as we were driving it home!

cp3117

Congrats on the purchase (still waiting for pics!!!)

I know you said you weren't into domestic brands but being AWD wasnt a factor im curious if you did look at the Buick Lacrosse. I took a better look at the Lacrosse at the new car show this year and was very impressed with its quality, options and value (few thousand less than a comparible TL). Did you look at the other comparibles to the TL like the Maxima, Avalon, VW CC etc? What where your thoughts on those compared to the TL??

I do agree though with the TL's interior compared to the ES. While the ES is a nicer quality the TL's design is much nicer. I find all Lexus interiors are bland except for maybe the LS460 but again its all subjective.