flchas

Can anyone share their experience or knowledge of replacing a keyless access system with the plain-old keyed system?

I ask, as I can no longer wait to replace my old Millenia S, and I would like a new SH-AWD TL. However, it appears that there are no base SH-AWD TLs at any dealer within 500 miles (of north-central FL), only Tech and Advanced models. I will look into a special order, but would like to understand all my options first.

To preempt the inevitable questions, I have security, safety and privacy concerns. For instance, Swiss researchers reported last year attacking keyless systems with an RF relay link:
http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/27037/
http://eprint.iacr.org/2010/332.pdf

TIA

potmilkz

your too into the media....

this is why you have insurance..

you are also safer with a keyless system anyways.

Edward'TLS

Not to worry. You have the choice to disable the active RF link in all 4G TL's that are equipped with the keyless entry system.

There is a switch inside the glove box that one can turn off the keyless entry function.

With the keyless entry disabled, the door(s) can only be locked/unlocked by using a key or by pressing the lock/unlock button on the remote control, and the car can only be started after the remote control has been inserted inside the big key slot.

Now no RF-relay-link-equipped thieves can drive away your car behind your back.

silverrevlis

OP, I hear your pain, but if theives want your car bad enough.....it's theirs! Just cover your arse with insurance and live life!!!

omaralt

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flchas

Thanks, Edward. The paper suggested a klugier method of removing the battery from the remote. Doing both would be a belts-and-suspenders fix.

However, that doesn't address all the problems with the push-button-start systems that have arisen. Most famous has been the emergency shut-off issue, which at least in part is a human factors problem (different manufacturers have developed different interfaces, e.g. a 3 second button hold versus 3 rapid button presses). Another problem has been ensuring that the engine has been shut-off, which may be a carbon monoxide danger in an attached garage.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/07/s...on-monoxide-d/

I plan to disable the immobilzer system, too, to eliminate one more RFID tag from my pocket. So, I am looking for a real keyed ignition switch. It might be a relatively simple process, but it might be a real headache, if dashboard and steerring column parts are different.

Edward'TLS

Other than removing the battery from the remote, you can also wrap the remote completely in metal foil or place the remote inside a tight tin can, so as to prevent any RF signals from leaking outside.

But with so many other worries you have, I too think that you should only purchase the base TL with conventional key ignitions.

DannyZRC

Are you worried you won't notice the engine is still running? Is putting the gear lever in neutral not a sufficient emergency option?

it seems to me that you've lead yourself down a rabbit hole, and have lost perspective a bit.

Nothing wrong with not wanting/liking rfid, but IMO you're overemphasizing what is, at best, a fringe concern.

Ag Surfer

Can't tell if serious or trolling.

potmilkz

honestly.. you cant have best of both worlds.

by you doing what your doing.. its not only a waste for you to pay for a tech model but not use the full functions of the TECH, but to fork out more money to downgrade it to a full ignition by key function.

its like trying to change a manual sports car into a automatic.. its pratical but why do it? just buy a auto in the first place.

flchas

Oh, quite serious. Having already ordered the Service and Electrical Troubleshooting manuals, I visited the local dealer to see about the non-Tech SH-AWD. They would have got one for me for about full MSRP. Eventually we agreed on a base TL (BWP/Parchment) for 1500 below invoice, which should be in my garage in a couple of days. My background is engineering and IT (some chip design in grad school), and I am somewhat serious about computer security and privacy. Most people are not in the least.

potmilkz

you should get a sh-awd.. ive talked to some of the people in my work facility that had bought the base, they regret it after that.. they would have gotten the sh-awd or the tech.

but at the end its your money. if you chose to go this route then its all up to you

Edward'TLS

I just don't see your worry is justified.

With the keyless entry function switched off on the Tech-TL model, the remote control will just act just like the metal key.

When you want to start the car, you insert the remote into the remote slot just like you would insert the metal key into the key slot. Instead of twisting the key to start the car, you simply press the start/stop button.

When you want to turn off the car, you press the start/stop button just like you would twist the key to off. Then you pull out the remote just like you would pull out the metal key from the key slot.

The built-in safety feature will makes sure that you can't pull out the remote without first stopping the engine by pressing the button, just like you can't pull out the metal key without first stopping the engine by twisting the key to the off position.

So what's still the worry ?

DannyZRC

Not that I think RFID ignition paranoia is a good idea, but even with the keyless go turned off someone could use a more powerful RFID setup to communicate with the car if they can snapshot the key's RFID signature, so it's not quite fair to say it's identical to a keyed ignition

However, a keyed ignition has been defeated easily for decades by simple brute force (not numerical brute force, muscles brute force), until the RFID based immobilizers came along.

Long story short : silly silly silly :p

potmilkz

i think we can close this thread now..

honda_nut

oh how the media brainwashes the masses

you should get a base chevy aveo with manual windows, locks, etc.