rtDDS

I'm not a real tech guy so I'm in the process of purchasing my first car which is the base model...the dealer is already offering $33,145. Is there anything else I can negotiate? Destination fee / dealer holdback / doc fee? I want to get the best price possible. Thanks for any input.

darksky

True market value for your zipcode from edmunds.com is a good line in the sand. Don't pay more than that for sure.

J.A.S.

This thread shows the MSPR and dealer invoice:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...hlight=invoice

If your price is before adding in destination, it looks like the dealer is making about $1,000.

crxb

ck out the TL owners sign in thread to get an idea what others paid.
edmounds when I looked was nothing less than mrsp. edmounds does discuss some neg tactics though

I worked the 'get quotes' option from acura.com - at 1st - it will email the dealers your request. Tell them what you want. car/w/tech etc -dont mention how to finance, or trade. tell at 1st only via email - they often will try to avoid a direct answer - 'come on over so we can talk'

all you want at 1st is the best price. in the mean while check w/ your credit union for the best rate you can get. Only once you get your prices from area dealers - then think about showing up to deal. once at the dealer they will try to say this is the internet price now + mud flaps, tint, wheel locks (but fight this as you asked for 'drive out price') I told em 200 or $250 for flaps, wheel locks, mats,trunk mat, tint. (they wanted >$1k)

once you have the price nailed - ONLY then mention finance rates - see what they offer you 1st. (don't solve for payment) finally if need be tell them your cu will give you x% - can you match? - worst case use the cu.

up to now you have not mentioned trade (as they will get you here to get you a better looking drive out for the new car) get a good idea of what the trade is worth - they will not offer top $ - here -- sell your self? car max? neg trade offer?

just be prepared to walk at any moment when ever you don't get what you need at any step

I went so much as to make photo copy of driver lic and took extra key (to trade) - if had to make an escape - so couldn't hold dr lic hostage and not give my key back.

good luck

rtDDS

Thanks crxb for such a detailed response! I've been looking at the TL for the last 4-5 months and I'm definitely ready to make an aggressive buy, the info you provided will help me save $$ and close the deal.

Sphyrna

I went in and test drove a TL SH-AWD today. Like the line in Transformers, the driver doesn't pick the car, the car picks the drivers. I fell in love. Unfortunately they don't seem to want to deal much. I first worked via internet sales and got a price of $537/mo + taxes for the SH-AWD with Tech for a 36 mo, 12K miles/yr lease with $3000 down. I knew from the online calculator on Acura.com that they're selling it at MSRP. Today when I went in and test drove it they came down $700. But with taxes that's still $581/mo. I'd love to get it but was trying to stay under $500/mo.

crxb

they will go much more than $700 below MRSP around here. at least they did via the internet quotes (when I 1st drove one (just in for oil change) they were like that's the price and thats that (MRSP) an the acura.com web site the lease rate for the fwd tech is I believe $499 w/ some $ down. look at the owners sign in thread for some idea what others paid

Sphyrna

Yea I did check out the owners thread. But not too many SH-AWD with tech owners yet. I emailed a bunch of dealers around here when I got back. I don't mind a drive for a good deal. At the price they want for the lease I'm tempted to just pay more and purchase it. But $750/mo is hard to swallow. I'm new to Acura, how's the resale value on the TL? What do you think an SH-AWD w/Tech would be worth in 5 yrs?

crxb

w/ the sales of new cars down - what do you think that does to the value of used cars

wholesale prices of 04 TLs are not much above $10k
wait and I we know eventually the TL will be offered at the same rates the other acura models

Sphyrna

Unfortunately I can't wait. My current lease ('06 Rav4) ends mid-Jan.

crxb

dont tell a dealer that - then they know you could be getting desperate. lease rates have taken a jump. bmw took over a 100 million $ write off - for leases where the expected value at the end of the lease just wasn't there. - so their lease rates have incr

Mpunk

Hey crxb, why would you need to photocopy your driver's lic and take a 2nd set of keys of your car to the testdrive b/c they might hold it "hostage"?

I've had bad experiences at car dealers before but, with the exception of 1 car dealer, all of them have been at lower-end new car stores like Honda, Nissan, etc. The one exception was at BMW - both the new store and certified pre owned. The CPO was the worst because he wanted to get us to "commit" to buying the car before he would let us see the car's 'confidential' maintenance records (it was an '05 M3 competition pkg going for about $44K at the time - this was like a year ago). When my friend and I asked why the car's maintenance records were 'confidential,' the salesguy said it was "Because the CPO report shows all of the previous owners and their social security numbers, addresses, etc. and we would have to take a pen and block it out before you could read it." And if we were to buy the car? "We would just give you the report because you're the new owner." Even with all the prior owner info? "Well, yes, because you're the new owner." Yikes!

A bit off-topic, I know, but I've never had a "hostage" like situation before. The only time a dealer ever photocopied my DL was at Infiniti but that was because they were giving me a 48-hr testdrive for a G35 and had to do that for liability purposes. All other dealers just toss me the keys. Again, with the exception of Infiniti, whom I had to surrender the keys to my own car at the time of the test drive, at no time did any dealer ask to get my car keys unless I was exchanging my car for an overnight test drive.

But now, however, and I don't know why, they have the salesguy drive out the car for you onto the road/wherever and then they pull over and let you drive back, etc. I had a salesguy tell me that they have to drive out of the dealer lot for "liability purposes" and it's not like the car is parallel parked 6 cars in - like the car is sitting in the driveway waiting to be driven off.

nota4re

The fact that some dealerships require a photocopy of the DL is mainly an insurance requirement, I suspect. My dealership did this - but made it really painless. It added a whole 30 seconds to the test drive process.

Regarding prices for the TL, the economy has obviously had an impact on the Acura dealers. In retrospect, it was probably the worst timing of all for the product launch of the TL. Following all historic data, I'm sure Honda was geared up pretty well on production and didn't fully see (like the rest of us) the depth and magnitude of the economic "slump". Long story short, my shopping experience showed that at least in this region, inventories are high and prices are low. Invoice to invoice +$200 was pretty "normal" for the FWD models with every color being readily available.

On the SH-AWD, I think Acura is intentionally *trying* to limit these cars and stay just behind the demand curve. The reason is that if the supply of the AWD remain comparitively short, the dealers can make more margin on each unit. In my experience, several of the dealers had at least 1 AWD, but often this is the car they chose to add the marked-up wheels, tires, aero package, etc to.

I managed $1500 off of MSRP for the AWD which, in my mind, wasn't a great deal but it was reasonable.

Once you decide on the make/model you want, I would advise doing your shopping over the phone. Always ask for the Internet or Sales Manager and let them know you are ready to buy for the right price. All all reluctant just to toss you a number so you can use it to shave another $100 or so on your next call. However, if you call a dealership and you verify they have the car that you want, you can say something like, "I will drive over right now and buy this car if we can agree on the price on the phone." Be sincere, offer invoice, and go from there.

Sphyrna

I've been telling them my lease is ending in a couple months. Funny thing with that is a Ford dealer I went to wanted nothing to do with me. He printed out a price sheet from the net and that was it. Didn't even take me to show me the vehicle. Contrast that to a Suzuki dealer I went to who was willing to cut me a check for my last 2 lease payments. Based on this we wonder why the Big 3 US automakers are asking for help.

Back on topic, I spent a good part of the day on the phone with a few dealers. The dealer where I test drove the TL on Saturday came back with a lease payment of $516 + tax, which would be $566 with tax. Another local dealer came back with $300 off MSRP, no thanks. I worked with a dealer a couple hours away in Ohio and they could get me at $500 + tax. Then another dealer called and gave me a price of $524 including tax. That's for a 36mo lease, 12K/yr, $3000 due at signing. Sale price on the car is $40,600. Don't think I'm going to beat that. I think I'm gonna go for it. I'll just have to figure out when I can get someone to give me a ride up there since it's 2hrs away.
Back on point,

nota4re

I think that's a good price assuming it is an AWD w/Tech ($42,995 MSRP) and a color you like. It's a buyer's market. You could do the deal - qualifying for the lease, etc. using the phone and fax then you could ask for them to deliver, or meet you half way.

Sphyrna

Well I just got off the phone with Toyota Financial, who my current lease is through. They were calling to go over my end of lease options. I now have a 6mo extension to my lease. So now I'm torn on what to do. There's no fee for the extension and it's month-to-month so I can still turn it in any time. Now I'm not sure if I should take the deal offered or wait it out. My current lease payment is only $240, so I can save a bit on payments for 6mo. By then I might be able to get a better deal on the TL. Or not. So I'm really torn. He has a Polished Metal Metallic (isn't that name redundant?) which I like and a Grigio coming in which isn't too bad either. Although I think Crystal Black Pearl would be my top choice. But I'd be happy with any of the 3.

KeithL

Free 6 month extension and out at any time, you are literally in the drivers seat, wait it out the economy is not done bottoming yet, I think better car deals will be in February and March

darksky

As an aside, no way would I give them a set of keys to my trade-in vehicle unless I go with them on the test drive. I'm assuming you made it clear that would be offering a trade in, right? Did they want to keep the keys as collateral (i.e. you made it clear it wouldn't be a trade-in)?

As to the DL issue: before I decided on buying my TL last year, I was also considering the VW Passat. Right before the test drive, the VW salesman tried that DL bullshit with me:

Saleman: Okay, I just need a copy of your DL and we can go [out on the test drive].

Me: Ken... you don't need to do that. The Acura dealership I just came from didn't ask for it.

There was a 5 second pause, and he reluctantly agreed with me that the copy wasn't needed, and we went out on the test drive.

I dunno if they have a legit need for some insurance reason, or if they harvest your name/address etc. for marketing purposes, but you don't have to agree with the request. Simply refuse and leave the lot. It has been my experience that nine times out of ten, the salesman will stop you on your way to your car.

For example, we also looked at a Honda Accord as well as the Passat and TL. The Honda salesman literally wouldn't let us leave the building even after I told him that the Accord felt too generic and just didn't excite me. He followed us out of the building verbally sweeting the deal (more on the trade in, less off the Accord, etc.).

Also, KeithL is right -- this is a buyer's market and you're in the driver's seat.

Spearsoft

CRXB ... You're pretty old-school aren't ya? I'd say that's some pretty awful advice.
rtdds:
If you know its the car you want, then start the process online, or at a dealership if you prefer face to face dealing. Don't "hide" or keep crucial information to yourself. I'm not sure why crxb seems to think you're going to get a better deal by not telling the dealer you plan on financing or trading a vehicle in.

My best advice is to get to know your dealer. I, personally, am more likely to discount the car for someone that I know, than with some random person on the phone or e-mail demanding the best price.

Also, have realistic expectations. TL's don't really have all that much profit in them, so don't expect 3,000 discounts.
And a buyer's market works both ways, guys. Someone will want to buy your trade for very cheap.

Lastly, don't expect anything crazy deals in the next few months regardless of the economy. Acura isn't "trying" to limit the supply, they are doing a damn good job of it. 15% of TLs are AWD, split nearly 50/50 between tech and non tech, then you have all your color combinations. Take advantage of a lease right away, they just lowered the money factor, and your residuals are as high as they'll ever be.

And a note on DLs:
I personally make it a point to get a DL from everyone. For my own safety, not for insurance. No sinister motives there, just our own safety, you never know who you're dealing with.

Sphyrna

In the past couple months I've test drove a Ford, Suzuki, Acura, and Infiniti. The Infiniti salesman was the only one who asked for my license. At Acura after driving the RDX he let me test drive the TL by myself b/c they were light on coverage on the show floor.

cynalan

I had my 06 TL in for service yesterday and thought that I would drop by the showroom for another look at the new TL. I've been looking at this car off and on for the past couple of months and really like what it has to offer. At first, the look of the car generated an interesting response... some things I liked (the interior, the rear end, the techie gadgets) and some I didn't (the grille, the fender hump, etc.)

Last month, I took the AWD with tech package out for a test drive and absolutely fell in love. I looked at some of the competitors: A4, G37x, CTS, BMW 335i and quite frankly - I like the Acura package - an excellent balance of cost, function and drivability. I will admit to some bias as I have been driving Honda products for 25 years (Prelude, Accord, CL, TL).

Although I was not really considering a new car, I really like the new features. The look is definitely growing on me. When I inquired about price in mid-November, there was no movement from the $47,900 (CDN) list.

This week the salesman called me to mention that there is an offer available for the TL... $2000 off list. The finance rate is still ridiculously high... 5.9% when the other Acura models are at 1.9% and the Canadian prime is 1.5%. Yesterday, when I popped in, he mentioned a boxing day sale on Saturday, December 27 with an additional 5% off MSRP. I think that is a pretty good deal, that would be about a total discount of $4500. I think this is a steal. Think I will be driving away in a new car in a couple of days.

nota4re

And you will have no regrets.... this is a great car.

Sphyrna

I think I'm gonna go ahead and get the TL now. I just can't decide between Polished Metal Metallic and Grigio. The PMM he has in stock, the Grigio should arive any day. What do you guys think? Both looked nice when I saw them on Saturday. I didn't notice much brown in the Grigio, it looked more like a very dark gray, almost black. CBP would be my first choice. I like the contrast with the darker colors.

Spearsoft

Personally, I prefer the Grigio, but PMM is not bad at all. What interior color are you getting?

crxb

Spearsoft: you are welcome to your point of view as much as I am to mine. what is your point of view? - you sell cars.
I started the process at 1st at a dealer. all I was offered was MRSP, extreme low end for my trade, and an interest rate of a credit card - it was take it or leave it - nothing else was offered. So I said thank you and left.

Went home checked out the rate from my credit union.'
Started the online quote process from acura.com

Now I had a rate 5% less than before. Suddenly MRSP was not the going price for the car (SH-AWD HPT) Acura provides this service direct from their own web site. Spearsoft if you don't want to offer a price that way - then I guess - that's up to you. The product is the same so why not look for the best price?

""Don't "hide" or keep crucial information to yourself. I'm not sure why crxb seems to think you're going to get a better deal by not telling the dealer you plan on financing or trading a vehicle in."" --- I'm not hiding anything - I just want to keep the 3 issues that are important to me clear. I'm sure its not done where you work, but I have heard where they offer a good price on the new car and somehow the trade seems a little low, or maybe they make it up w/ the rate. Give me your best offer through email,phone, - you get me in the door of your dealership. why would you need to know if I'm trading another car in to give me the drive out price for a car? I just want your best total drive out price -

Next if we got that far I want to your best finance rate - can you match my credit union? if not I use the credit union.

last the trade: all I want here is a number I can feel good about, yes I could get more if I sold it myself - but I don't want the hassle. If I trade it will decrease my taxes on the new car

If I don't like the price, rate, trade - I can walk

Sphyrna

I'm getting the ebony interior. How would you describe the Grigio? It's hard for me to tell exactly what it looks like.

couch257

Grigio was a brownish color. I went with the Polished metal which is more grey similar to my 04.

nota4re

Both colors are attractive. I think the stain silver finish of the grill pieces and the trunk trim blend in best with the Palladium Silver and next best with the Polished Metal paint colors. For this reason, I would choose the Polished Metal over the Grigio.

Sphyrna

I acutally like the silver finish of the grill and trunk trim. That's why my first choice is black as it stands out more. I think next to stand out is Grigio followed by PMM (of my preferences). I might have to take another look at the Grigio. I didn't really notice much brown to it. To me it looked more like a very dark gray. When I was at the Toyota dealer talking to them about the end of my lease I noticed they have a dark brown metallic too. Is this the next trend in colors? Seems like gray (like the PMM) has been becoming popular. I almost went with it on my Rav4 but ended up with silver instead.

Hacura

Crxb,

No disrepect to Spearsoft but I'm with you bud. I thought you gave some solid car buying advice that comes with experience.

I went and negotiated with Honda for my sisters 2007 Odyssey and got the sweetest deal ever as it was the last day of a holiday weekend and they must have just needed a few more cars to get the Honda bonus. They must have sold 6 vehicles in the last two hours of business. I spoke with two other buyers and they also got it under MSRP, took a small loss for the bonus quota of cars sold...We still joke about it over some drinks. It was almost like I didn't have to do too much to get it, the pressure was on them, the tables were reversed in a rare salesman tell of desperation.

Its great to have sites like these where prospective buyers can share their experiences and prices paid. As hard as it may be, you have to walk into a dealer not needing a car.

crxb

"Its great to have sites like these where prospective buyers can share their experiences and prices paid" AcuraSoulElement - You are right - for over 4 years I have learned from others here on Acurazine - its all about the dissemination of information

ps interesting story on edmunds: Buying Tips Confessions of a Car Salesman

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

rtDDS

Hey crxb the info that you gave me worked perfectly..and I'm sure theres some truth to what Spearsoft said, but I have to admit the email thing worked better than I expected and I don't think I would have been bold enough to negotiate mats, trunk tray, locks, tints unless you brought that up (I'm a noobie when it comes to this stuff)...now I'm ready to have them throw in a rear spoiler, and whoever does that gets my business. Once I've selected the dealer, I'll go in face to face and talk about financing and get the lowest possible %..I have a 730 credit rating so I think I have some room there, what do you think? Do you think I would qualify for the AHFC super preferred credit tier?

Oh Sphyrna...I'm with you on the colors. Personally I think black is the slickest/nicest color, but it's the hardest to maintain. When I saw Grigio I fell in love and I said to myself this is the car I'm going to get...it's a slick color with a bronze tint from the metallic flakes. But after thinking about it...I think white would be easiest to maintain and it also looks really clean. I would get ebony interior for either. Anyone know how ebony holds up over time?compared to taupe or parchment?

J.A.S.

My stepfather was in the car business for 15 years and his advice mirrrors crxb. Keep separate: the price of the car, your trade in and financing terms. The dealer is apt to blend them altogether to give you a "monthly payment" that is attractive but you may not be getting a good deal on price, trade in and/or financing. Force the dealer to keep them separate to know what you're getting into.

Sphyrna

rtDDS, good luck on your purchase! Internet shopping definitely has changed the car buying procedure quite a bit. It makes it much easier on us too. I work 2 jobs so my time is limited. Being able to get all the small stuff out of the way via email is a big help. As far as teh AHFC super preferred credit, does anyone know what the minimum credit rating is to qualify?

crxb

The rear spoiler comes w/ every tech (rear view camera is in there) Dont go in blind with the financing rate - even if you have to join a credit union ($25). I dont pretend to be an expert on the credit rating. you might be just shy of the best rates (740ish? - someone jump in here)(even so a cu will I bet still get you better) use the payment calculator on acura.com (or others on the web) - plugging in different rates - to see how it changes the monthly payment - If you don't know what you deserve w/ your credit rating - how do you know your getting a good deal - 2 diff dealers offered me almost TWICE the rate (dealer's 1st offer - b4 I said I could do better) that my cu offered. key here is dont be in a rush until you have all your facts in place - total drive out price, best rate for you, reasonable trade figure - take your time do not walk in blind. my dealer didn't use AHFC, but found a bank to match my cu - for them part of something was better than all of nothing

crxb

dont ever let the dealer do that 'solve for the payment you want' deal - they march out that piece of paper w/ different monthly payments. get what you want/need for the 3 (price/rate/trade) - the math will fall out w/ the payment. I even used a payment calculator on my iPhone right there in the dealership to double check #s

rtDDS

I agree Sphyrna, discussing via email is so much easier, there is absolutely no pressure and you are in control. And you can pretty much send a mass email to 6 or 7 dealers instead of calling each separately and saying the exact same thing over and over again; just copy n paste and its all done. I've gotten an out the door price from 3 dealers so if I were to come in there would no question what the total at the bottom of the contract would be. It's nice to know that walking into a dealership.

crxb

It also helps limit your emotions too. If you are already sitting in the new car at the dealership - you may not be thinking your clearest. goes back to the acura commercials w/ the kids on xmas / guy driving his new acura - same emotional hook

Sphyrna

The credit union is definitely a good way to go. I checked the one I can join through my work and their rate is 4.49% for 60 mo. Not bad at all.

crxb

- and I have never had to actually go w/ the cu - just used to neg the best rate