Brock79

Where did you get the 300 number from? That's not mentioned anywhere, and if 20hp is no big deal, why are so many members on here chasing 5-10 hp? I wrote 320 and 40 hp is a major difference, especially when you factor in the weight and extra power it needs to operate an AWD car.

Mekkanox

Maybe Acura's tuned the 3.5L so it makes more power. I haven't seen any HP numbers yet though...

Brock79

They have the 3.5 at the same numbers as the 2009-2014 3.5. I forget the 4 cylinders numbers.

weather

Did you see what they did with the MDX?? Need I say more

Brock...I see what you are saying about a larger displacement engine but Acura will not allow the TLX to make more power than the RLX....I think the TLX will make the same output or a little less than the current 3.7L V6 and they will use the lighter weight to justify the lower engine output. My prediction anyway...maybe ~300hp

VR1

The 3.5 in the TLX will make more HP then the current one in the TL.. I wouldn't be surprised if they matched the current 3.7 in terms of power.

LaCostaRacer

I wouldn't say CU is a joke- they are certainly more objective (buying their cars) than a car magazine which relies on advertising and getting their cars for free (from car companies) in making its living. I will agree that CU's taste is not my own in many cases, but they are no joke. CU knows a good car when they see one- the Tesla Model S is a prime example.

CU does something no car magazine does at the same level which is conduct ownership surveys and correlate maintenance. If you look at the Taurus (page 197 in 2014 Buyers Guide), I see the typical issues I would expect of a Taurus: Climate System problems, suspension problems, transmission, and even Paint/Trim. This is all for the latest generation and these problems usually start right after the bumper-to-bumper 3 year warranty ends. I look at the Acura TL and there's one major issue with current model for 2009 only: Audio - all other categories are much better than average. I would venture to speculate that my 2006 TL will be more reliable than a 2011 Taurus.

I would hope you can fit better in a Taurus better than an Acura- it's 9" longer and wider and 3" taller than a TL and is also considered a full size car now. CU's complaint was that it's interior space was not as large as its external proportions would indicate. This makes sense if you consider the Taurus has just 41.9" front legroom compared to the TL's 42.5. Rear leg room is similar at 38.1 .vs. 36.2 for TL. Shoulder room is similar with the 9" wider Taurus edging the TL by less than 2".

Anyway it really comes down to the owner's priorities in the car like I posted earlier.

Brock79

Well the trans warranty for the Taurus is not 3 years 36k miles, it's 5 years 60k miles. So if it's an issue after 3 years the warranty will cover it. The same transmission is in the Explorer, edge, mustang, f150 and a few other fords with no complaints.

Brock79

Why not? The TL had more power than rlx at one point.

LaCostaRacer

yep, just checked some of those models and they also have similar transmission related issues: '09 F150, '08 Edge, Escape 09-11, '10 Fusion. Seems to be a common theme along with the climate systems and Paint/Trim too.

Note I was referring to the bumper-to-bumper warranty that would cover the climate control system. I see the powertrain warranty is 5yr/60k miles compared to the TL's 6yr/70k. I'll credit the Taurus with a better corrosion warranty than the TL: 5y/60k .vs. 4yr/50k. I'll also credit the Mustang (another CU favorite) in that it the V6 version is pretty decent- only slight issue is body-hardware for the '10 model only.

Based on your experience owning the two vehicles, which one sees the dealer more?

Brock79

The taurus has only been to the dealer once since I have owned and that was for a sync update, this update is basically for newer phones that come out and make the connection better. It did change a few other things as well. The sync has been updated 3 times but now they just mail me a USB stick and the car downloads the update by itself once plugged into the USB. I have only had my TL for a month, but it did go in for new rotors that were warped, but that was Acuras fault for not taking care of the CPO procedure properly. As for the transmissions in all of the Fords they were all updated in 2010-2011, so the years you have listed are for older transmissions that are no longer available in the new fords.

Brock79

The escape got the new trans in 2012( would never buy one to small and ugly)

The F150 in 2010

The Fprd Edge in 2011, no way or had the same issues as a 2010, because it's an entirely new 6 speed starting the 2011 face lifted model. I owned a 2012, best transmission so far, same one in my SHO. Geared differently obviously.

Not sure for the Fusion but I'm betting 2011

I'm also not sure when the taurus got the new trans but the SHO was facelifted in 2013 but I believe it was in there for 2011-12.

LaCostaRacer

I'm wondering if you have a foot of snow from an overnight storm and the roads are crappy, which of the two AWD cars would be take for your trip? I would guess the Taurus has more ground clearance, but the Acura might have a better AWD system. It would be interesting to hear your take. In this scenario the extra HP of the Taurus probably won't be a big factor.

Brock79

I wouldn't take either, I have a 4wd pickup that goes out in the snow and rain. There's no need to take out either car and have some idiot slam into one of them. Also this means I would get salt on one of the cars as well. My pickup is a 98 Sonoma that I have owned since new and has 103,000 miles on it. It has 31x10.5 all terrain tires on it and rips through the snow with ease. Even in 2wd it gets around in the snow pretty well with the all terrains. I also drive this truck almost everyday to work and while I don't want it to be involved in any fender bender but it would be easier to accept if the sonoma got hit or slid into the something. The Sonoma has well over a foot of ground clearance as well.

amill

I'm pretty sure with a foot of unplowed snow, neither are going anywhere.

LaCostaRacer

OK, suppose it's only 6" of snow and you don't have access to a truck/suv vehicle and you MUST get somewhere and can't defer the trip. Which vehicle do you take: TL or Taurus?

Brock79

If you put it that way, which ever set of keys is closer. Since I don't drive either in the snow and they really haven't seen the rain, I can't really give you a straight up answer. I did however drive the TL shortly after I got it on wet roads after a downpour and the car did slide a not going around a bend. I have taken the taurus around the same bend in the same conditions at the same speeds and I never had that issue. So based on my personal experience, the SHO wins.

LaCostaRacer

But you might be comparing a 3 year old car with older tires to a newer car with newer and possibly better tires. If that is going on, would that be a fair assessment of AWD performance? Even I would take the Taurus with the better tires over the TL in that situation as well. Even with 50k warranty tires, there is a significant performance drop off when you have 25k on a set of these tires. This is only compounded if the tires have a shorter tread wear warranty.

If the cars have the same tires and similar life, I would take the TL for the 'mission' because the AWD is more proven in its performance.

Here's a youtube link for the SHO that is interesting for illustrating a point on its torque bias:
The best video I could quickly find on the Acura was this one:
Notice how the TL's rear wheels turn upon launch at 3:00 into the video. That's a noticeable difference in how torque is routed to the rear in the Acura that is different than the SHO. Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Snow performance should also mimic on road performance in normal conditions in many ways in terms of the car's bias between FWD and AWD so I find snow performance relevant even if it doesn't snow where you live. The Taurus looks to act more like a FWD car while the TL seems to act with more of a neutral FWD/RWD bias.

I could not find a video that directly compared the Taurus SHO to the TL shawd; however, I did find a good track video comparing the SHO to a G37 and clearly the G smoked the SHO in all performance categories:
A summary of category results:
0-60: SHO=5.8 ; G37=5.6
0-60 rollout: SHO=5.5; G37=5.3
1/4 Mile: SHO=14.2@99.1 ; G37=13.8@101.4
Skidpad: SHO=.80G; G37=.87G
60-0 braking: SHO=127 feet; G37=110 feet
Slalom: SHO=62.9mph; G37=66.4mph

So it's pretty clear the G37 outperforms the SHO. What's not as clear is how much the G37 outperforms a TL-SHAWD. I think it will probably outperform the TL as well, but it could be closer in the handling and braking performance categories.

Brock79

As for the tire situation I have spoke about this before, the TL has brand new oem tires all the way around. The SHO has 19k on them, so the TL would be favored in that category, I believe it was in this thread. Now let me watch the videos, by the way before I even watch them I'm just gonna say, I haven't met a G37 coupe or sedan that could hang with the SHO. The SHO runs constant 13.5-13.7 1/4 miles and 5-5.2 0-60.

Brock79

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ge_first_test/

Brock79

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...0s_first_test/


This is for the 2014 with more power than the 2009 you had posted, notice it's still a little slower in the 1/4 mile. I don't know if you're familiar with Edmunds and their tests but they're known to be kind of BS.

Brock79

Two other things I have noticed between the TL and SHO is the lack of steering feedback in the TL. It feels more computer controlled, I guess is the best way to put it. Secondly when you're doing 60-80 mph on the highway and you need to pass a slow poke or want to, the SHO takes off the TL not so much. I'm sure the G37/Q50 reacts closer to the TL on the highway passing. Don't forget also for roughly 2 grand or what most members spend on Vossens I can have my SHO in the low 12's and after that there is no comparison between the TL or G37 as far as flat out performance.

LaCostaRacer

The OEM TL tires are not super great and are probably not the same tires that are on the SHO. The TL probably has the Pilot HX/M? tires and those are not as good as the Pilot AS3 Michelins. I hated my oem Michelin tires and could not wait for them to wear out. No comments on the AWD/snow videos?

Brock79

No, no comments at all. To many variables that are not accounted for.

Brock79

By the way if you go on YouTube, there are many videos of the sho just like the TL video you posted.

LaCostaRacer

Brock- I'm sure there are more videos of SHOs doing donuts in parking lots but those videos don't always show how the rear wheels go at a standstill. I'm also sure you will be very satisfied with the Ford. It's kind of a head scratcher why you would buy a new 40k+ SHO and then turn around and get a used TL along with having a pickup. Why not spend the 25k getting a real sports car instead?

You spent 40k on the SHO and are bagging on a 25k used TL that's 3 years older. I agree with one of the others as to why you would even buy a TL if you're so unsatisfied with it. Didn't any of this stuff come out in a test drive?

Anyway, I think I have dispelled many of the claims you have made on the SHO and do understand that adding 2k to the tuning would increase power even more. But doing so would also void your 125k warranty so this makes little sense in the real world for many people.

Brock79

You haven't dispelled a single thing, you have written questions or comments and I have had perfect answers for you that answer you or prove your comments wrong. As for buying a sports car you must not have read any of my other threads. I do in fact own a 2009 Corvette, so I guess that covers my sports car area, I so,d my 2004 Cobra to buy that. Why not have the truck? I bought it new in 1998, I owe no money on it, it still has low miles as well. As for the TL, I traded my 2012 Ford Edge in for it. I was going to go with a BMW originally but didn't like the 3 series for its size and couldn't see spending 40 grand on a used 5 series. I only paid 37.5 for the SHO out the door. As for the warranty I do have a tune on my SHO, just not the balls to the walls stage 4. Buehler Ford will still honor the SHO warranty with a stage 2 tune on it. I can't do the turbos either if I want the warranty honored. I haven't tracked the SHO yet but I would bet its close to a 12.8 car as it sits. Also I'm not bagging on the TL, I'm simply amazed that the TL lacks in so many areas, considering its a "luxury" car.

LaCostaRacer

I don't know Brock- this is turning into a futile thread.

The SHO AWD looks suspect based on the video evidence and then you point me to look at more videos of more cars doing donuts in the snow. The point is how is the AWD for performance and there is a video that clearly shows that it favors FWD in the snow. You can't even seriously answer a question directed to you about which car to take in a snow storm- your answer is some silly which ever keys are closer response.

Come on, do you really think I'm going to take you serious? I'm having doubts that you even own a TL with some of your silly responses on this thread and others. I am convinced you own a SHO though- no doubt on that one.


How about if we give up this thread? It's going no where.

wreak

I agree this guy seems very suspect, its probably someone who was banned and started a new account. Honestly it makes no sense why anyone would own a Taurus and a TL, unless one is for their spouse.

Brock79

well if you want to know if I own a TL, go look on the photography section and the thread a picture of your TL as it sits now. As for your silly ass snow question and which car I would take out. I answered your question honestly, but you didn't like my answer one bit. It's not my fault that you didn't like the answer that was honest and truthful. I wouldn't drive either car in the snow unless it was absolutely necessary. I also told you about my experience with the TL in the rain with new tires all the way around. To which you said the oem tires suck. Any question you have asked me I have answere, it's no my problem that you come up with an excuse to why you didn't like my answers. I mean you post a video of a TL doing donuts in the snow and that's ok? I tell you about the SHO and it's a shitty response? Also there are many videos on youtube with the SH AWD TL slamming into snow banks, parked cars and some not even being able to make it slight inclines.

What you fail to realize that there are many different snow types, and road surface conditions, which all play apart in any tests. A dry snow that doesn't pack is going to be more drive able, a wet heavy snow will play more havoc. All snow is not the same. With all the snow this season, and all the shoveling people have done just ask around. Why is 2"s of wet snow so heavy compared to 6"s of powder? So of course it will affect the test results. Not to mention if it happened to rain during the day and got cold enough to turn the rain into snow at night. Now you have snow on top of ice, no car drives well on ice no matter how good the AWD system is. I hope this helps to clear up your thoughts or whatever else you have on your mind. I really didn't think I would have to point out obvious snow differences and write such a long answer back to you. And yes to repeat again your 1 foot of snow on the road is a ridiculous question to begin with. Who drives in that? And I would drive my truck first, even in 1" of snow. If you don't like realistic answers to your silly questions, stop asking them.

Brock79

I was never banned, never joined this site before and I own both vehicles. My Fiancé as I have written before has a 2011 Maxima. It makes perfect sense as to why I own both. Maybe you missed the thread where I mentioned that I traded in my 2012 Ford Edge for the TL, it had to many problems and I really didn't want a SUV, I thought I wanted one, but after 2 years of owning it I had to get rid of it. The TL is suitable enough for my fiancé to drive of need be, she doesn't like the size of the taurus, and she's not touching my Vette. As for owning a TL I will post some new pics tomorrow, I just installed the rear trim painted CBP and tinted the windows. Also Acktl05 has seen my car in person, he installed the blacked out headlights and helped me with the front grill. Also I have dealt with Nexson, he painted my rear trim for me, which I received today and installed.

docboy

OP, take a pic that shows both your Taurus and TL?

Brock79

Yes, I can do that when I get home from work.

ucf_bronco

iTrader: (1)

...and Maxima and Vette

Mr Marco

I have three HMCo products in my garage. Of course, one is a mower.

C8N

Eh... there is no such thing as a perfect car.
People are going to have different tastes and when you compare 2 cars of similar price, there are going to some things one does better than the other. At the end of the day... to each its own.

Personally, I am kind of prejudice against Fords since my experience of owning a Ford Mustang GT from over a decade ago but since the likes of Fusion and such, my stance may change with some time behind the wheel of some of the newer Fords.

Mr Marco

I had an SHO with a bad cam shaft and a couple of other POS Fords that lead me back to Honda. I will never go back to the Oval. The current SHO looks like a nice car nad I'm sure it drives like an animal, but if I got one for free I would simply turn around and trade it for a Honda.

Brock79

The Vette will have to wait until this weekend, I keep it in a rented storage unit during the winters. And the Maxima is the fiances. Why are you so curious as to seeing my cars? I guess you don't believe me, I should post the pics of the 3 Vettes I owned at the same time. I change cars like most people change underwear.

Brock79

The newer Fords are worlds apart from the older ones. Chevy has even stepped up their game with their cars. I have yet to drive any newer model Chevys but they do look good. The new Silverado looks great and I think it might steal some sales from the F150. But even with that said my Edge was a great car to drive and handled really well for what it was. The fact it was in the shop 18 times in 23 months lead me to get rid of it. I'm pretty sure I just got a shit one. The SHO has had no issues, and I know a few people with the new explorer and have no complaints. One buddy has 85k on his 2011 and loves the truck. If you can call it a truck anymore it's built on the taurus frame along with the Flex and a few Lincoln's.

Brock79

Was your SHO from the 92-94 model year? And I'm sure if you got a new one for free you would have some fun with it first lol.

C8N

A buddy of mine back in college had a SHO from those years. I think it had the yamaha tuned engine?

Great sleeper car but the creaks and squeaks were just unbearable. But like you said, I am hearing good things about the newer Fords these days.