Brock79

So far I like my new(to me) 2011 CBP SH-AWD TL. It is lacking in certain areas when I compare it to my other AWD sedan. My other sedan is a 2013 SHO, and has every option the TL has and cooled seats, as well as heated rear seats. These are the only differences I could find as far as options besides a touch screen as well. The TL feels very underpowered compared to the SHO, there is a 60Hp and almost 75ft lb TQ difference. I see the TL compared to a lot of different sedans with AWD but have yet seen it compared to a SHO. This thread is not meant to bash the TL or cause any kind of flaming. Just an honest comparison. I have only had my TL for a few days but have already put 300 miles on it. I wish the ride was a little smother like the SHO, the roads in NJ are brutal and you feel every bump. I wish the TL was more tune able as well. As I understand it, there is no real tune for the TL. Both cars stick to the road very well, the SHO pulls out harder with the extra umph, I wish the TL had. I hope the TLX will put out a variant with power near the 400 mark in both categories. The leather is a little nicer in the TL though.

andrewcjduong

Why did you buy a TL if you hate it so much. Doesn't really make sense if you spent $36k on a Ford that you find better than a car that cost about $10k more than your Ford when new.

TheDingo

In fairness, the SHO (super high output) package on the Taurus is performance driven; therefore your butt dyno is correct in that your Ford is faster than your Acura.

It seems the comparisons you made are within features and power alone. I think a more helpful comparison would compare the handling of the two. Then, compare and contrast the value of paying ~$15k more for the Taurus.

To me, before turning in the car, the SH-AWD TL feels like a FWD vehicle. The awd system is designed this way and, in fairness as well, is (by design) much different than that of the Taurus. All of that being said, I've driven an SHO Taurus and I'd take a 4th Generation TL for personal preference reasons such as: It's a honda. The ride is better (in my opinion). I like the interior more. The brakes and steering inputs feel better (again, to me).

One more thing, if I wanted to spend $40k or less on a "sports sedan", I would buy an 09-11 Cadillac CTS-V.

Reorge

Thanks for your informative opinion.

TheDingo

^ Nola! Geaux Saints! Mardi Gras season is upon us!

Brock79

No where in that thread did I say I hate the car. As for the price my SHO stickered for 47k not 36k, the TL stickered at 44k, which I would assume a 2013 would be closer to the 47k mark due to inflation. It was a comparison not I hate my TL, as I wrote in the first post I wasn't bashing or flaming the TL. So your post is not really called for and do some research before you just throw numbers out. My comparison is from currently owning both cars and actually driving and noticing the differences. The SHO was actually produced to go after the BMW 5 series. The TL to me is in its on niche, larger than the 3 series that it competes with as well as the Lexus IS and slightly larger than the Infiniti G series and MB C class.. Yet it's smaller than the 5 series and SHO. The Acura does fit the bill for a more upscale vehicle compared to Ford. I actually traded a 2012 Ford Edge in for the TL, so I'm not a Ford diehard. And my truck is a GMC, I have never been loyal to one brand, I go with what I like. For the price the TL is offered for it is what I expected it to be, I just hope they do some type of HIPO option that is more than just 25HP over the base when the TLX is released.

Brock79

The interiors are very different, the SHO is all touch screen as the TL is well button oriented. I have no problem with either system. The SHO tuning ability is out of this world compared to the TL though. A Livernois stage 4 tune on a SHO with their intake and cat back system will get you into the low 12's, not bad for 2 grand. I have no idea what is out there for the TL, but I can't find much. I don't expect this car to run low 12's any time soon. I only went with a stage 2 tune on my SHO and left everything else stock. As for the ride the SHO is smoother than the TL, IMO. One major drawback about the SHO is no one really has any idea what the car actually is. To most people it's just a Taurus, lol. I did look at the CTS-V and I did love the car I couldn't bring myself to drop 50 grand on the car that was most likely beat on and returns 14city and 19hwy. I know it's up there with a true sports car and you don't buy those for MPG, but a I would take a Z06 for that money and gets 28 MPG and is a little faster than a CTS-V. But I was keeping this to similar cars that I actually own.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I'm about to solve your TL problems:
1)https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-295/excelerate-performance-poll-hondata-tune-4g-tl-904114/
&
2)https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-295/pseudos-guide-adding-power-your-4g-854092/

amill

Based on performance, sure the sho is better. However, regarding all around packaging the tl is nicer. Interior materials, fit and finish, seating materials, rear seating headroom, warranty, dealership experience and resale value go to the tl hands down. The sho is decent for the price, but it's in its own segment regarding price.

Brock79

In your first link, where it mentions Hondata, is this actually part of Honda? Will it affect the warranty and can Honda/Acura read your Ecu? Also any mention of number gains? I didn't see any of those questions asked.

Brock79

Haha, dealership experience? I guess you didn't see my thread about the CPO and the BS I went through with the Acura dealer. I actually felt like they would have taken my sneakers if given a chance. I'm not saying all Acura dealers are the same but Precision Acura will never get my business again. I woke up the next morning still pissed about the used car manager. I have never had that happen at any dealership before.

TheDingo

If we all had the same preferences, there would be no need for so many different models nowadays. That's for sure. I definitely agree with your assessment about the interior differences between the two. Other than that, we are really comparing apples to oranges as the TL (in my opinion) is not meant to be a performance sedan. Sure, there are ways to tune the ECU and add performance modifications to make the TL a bit more peppy but if you're chasing a HP number or a 1/4 time you're really in the wrong car.

One more thing, you can get 09-11 CTSV one owner cars, completely stock with low miles (30-40k) for sub $40 grand! I know because I was shopping for one before I bought my 07 Z06. I love my sedans though, so I ended up with another TL. Really happy with the choice. Glad you enjoy your cars as well. Cheers.

amill

I didn't see that thread. But I know from my experiences that american car companies have no idea how to treat a customer during servicing. Ford has really changed their image, but until they and the other domestic manufacturers understand how to properly treat a customer after the initial purchase, they will not get my business.

TheDingo

^ That's the most ignorant statement I've seen on here since the guy driving 90mph on a snow covered road. Dealership experiences vary no matter what manufacturer it is.

Brock79

I don't know what dealers you have been to, but they are all in it for the same thing $$$$$. They all treat you nice(well almost all) because they want your cash. The only difference I have noticed between Acura dealerships and American car dealerships is the size. The Acura dealers in my area seem to be small and the inventory even smaller. All dealerships seem to have coffee, cookies, soda and juice for free now. The Ford dealer I go to will buy you breakfast sandwiches from the deli next door up until 8:30 am. The Acura dealer did offer to buy MR dinner at the diner next door, but I wasn't really in the mood.

amill

Really? I purchased a fully loaded jeep grand cherokee summit for my wife. It's been in for service twice. Both local dealerships do not offer loaner vehicles. They will either shuttle you or give you the option of paying to rent a car. I'm sorry, but when I'm having a warranty issue fixed on a $55k vehicle that is marketed against "luxury" brands, then you need to service the client in that manner. Chrysler group does not understand this practice. This is a common theme among jeep owners. I'm sure Cadillac is different, but in all honesty I've never dealt with an American manufacturer that treats you like an foreign luxury brand. Before I bought my tl and her GC we looked at ford and they offered a similar experience to jeep. At least at the three dealerships we checked.

TheDingo

I had to fight tooth and nail with two different subaru dealerships on a 2011 impreza STI on warranty work, multiple times! On another occasion when the car actually was working correctly, I went in for a brake service under warranty.. I took the day off, went to the dealer and they didn't even order the parts. Terrible! I ended up selling the car and will never buy another Subaru. That being said, I have friends in Florida that buy and have Subarus and get stellar service from Mastro Subaru in Tampa, even out of warranty. I feel like this experience mirrors reality in that you cannot just label a brand or nationality of a brand (haha) in to one big bucket of suck.

Brock79

Well I agree with you about loaners, just not with American cars. At least IME, my Girlfriend has a 2011 Maxima and Nissan will not give a loaner out to save your life. Her car was in for a week getting a cracked intake fixed at 20k miles, we had to fight with them to get a loaner. As for Ford, if my SHO goes in I get a SHO loaner, if my Edge went in, I got an Edge, Explorer or Flex. All loaded out the same as mine, meaning leather and all of the other bells and whistles. If you took in a Fusion you got a Fusion. When I had my Montero you got a Galant, which I didn't like one bit. I haven't had the experience with a loaner from Acura but I understand they give you a loaner with no hassle. Even with CPO cars. When I had my Vette they came in towed it back to the dealer and oddly I don't think I got a loaner lol.

amill

Apparently you missed my mention of luxury brands. Toyota, Subaru Mitsubishi are the same as domestic companies in regard to service. My point was that for the money $40k+, the dealership experience after sale is better at acura, Lexus, mb, BMW etc.

TheDingo

If you mean that they kiss your ass more, then yeah I agree. You're also paying double or more for the service. That's why they give you the nice waiting room with little treats and shit. It's the illusion of better service. In regard to the people, there are asshole service folks at every dealership. If you find one where they're nice, I'd say keep going!

amill

Again. Warranty service. I don't pay for work at a dealership.

My point is with any luxury foreign brand I either drop the car off or they pick it up and I'm provided a car without issue for service. It's not the main reason I pick a certain brand, but after dealing with jeep, I doubt I'll buy another. I absolutely love the vehicle and it's capabilities, but the hassle of dealing with the local dealers is not worth it. And for the same money I could have had a ML or X5 and not dealt with dealership bullshit. Although I'd be in a loaner more often.

Booya4139

Lol at dealership experience...

TL isn't a world beater. It's a 'check most the boxes
' type of car. Very well rounded, very durable. Above average across the board.

Good luck with that turbo after 100k miles. Resale will likely plummet. It's. Great car though. I wish ford would just pop coyote engines across their lines. They'd sell a lot more cars.

Booya4139

All dealers suck, and it's not a good thing to have a great idea of dealership experience. It means your ish is broke

amill

Wow, what is so hard to understand about this concept? Would you rather be stuck at dealership waiting for some guy driving a minivan shuttle to take you home or to work? Or would you rather get there, hand a service guy your keys and walk back out with a loaner? Gee, tough call. Although, I guess that means my acura is broken all the time. Great logic.

andrewcjduong

Yeah I do like the loaner thing. Not sure about other dealerships but for mine, if the service is longer than 2 hours then you can request a loaner vehicle. My dealership requires that I book the loaner vehicle a few days in advance though. Even with my Jetta, when we have warranty work or major things that need to be done. They'll either provide us with a loaner/demo car or they'll rent us a vehicle to use (which ends up being another VW anyways)

As for the turbo thing. I am pretty skeptical of boosted cars. My original interest of choice was a 535i but after consideration and the cost of maintenance, I decided to stick with naturally aspirated.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

its alrdy been stated that the tlx will have either a 2.4L 4 banger or 3.5L v6. that basically means a k24 or a j35, and should have about 200hp for the k24, and ~290hp for the j35

Brock79

I'm assuming after the first year or two they will release a HIPO variant. You can't go from having a Type-S and a SH in your line yo having nothing. Most companies wait a year before the HIPO model comes along. I already know about the avaliable engine options as of now. That's why I said they need a HIPO option.

Brock79

Resale of a SHO is very comparable to a TL SH, as for the Turbos mine are covered for 150k, hopefully they go at 140 so I get a new pair. By the way there are boosted F150s with same engine with over 250k miles and no issues.

amill

I doubt there will be any major issues. FI has been around for awhile now. I've had two FI cars and never had any turbo related issues. Both were modified too.

I really like the tunes available for the Explorer Sport with ecoboost 6. One flash gets you into low 13's with no other bolt ons.

JT4

I couldn't agree more. I bought my 13 CTS-V coupe from a dealer in VA because I couldn't find what I wanted in NY/LI area. The Caddy dealer I use for service in NY has treated me great as if I bought the car from them. Great people.

My Acura dealer has also been great, but I know some people that have used other Acura dealers and their experiences were horrible. So I had them contact my SA.

I also have had no issues with my MB dealer, yet when my father in-law owned an MB from another dealer his service department was horrible.

My father drives a Lincoln twin turbo MKS, his dealer has been so great that this is his 3rd car from them. Prior to this dealer he used another Lincoln dealer who was so bad he considered not buying another Lincoln product.

So the dealer experience truly varies no matter what the brand. There will always be good and bad with all.

Brock79

Yea they are the same tunes for the SHO and the F150 as well, it seems to benefit the SHO the most being that it's the lightest of the three. I'm really considering changing my turbo blades from the 6 fin to the 7 fin. It's been proven on the dyno to gain 40-60 hp. It's a 500 dollar job, unless you pull the turbos yourself.

saturno_v

The SHO is indeed one heck of a car for the price however I still prefer my TL for several reasons, some subjective others more "measurable".

That DI V6 twin turbo engine in the Taurus is the only thing I would prefer over the Honda engine and that's it.

I prefer much more the look of the TL, inside and out, I know it is subjective.

Fit and finish in the Acura is better.

The SHO is a very big car and it shows driving it, conversely the TL SH-AWD seems to "shrink" as you drive it, partially due to its more sophisticated AWD system...much more agile and responsive, better steering...The Acura is definitely more pleasant to drive, feels sportier.

The TL has a more sophisticated suspension setup and, again, it shows on the road in ride quality.

No manual transmission option on the Taurus and the manual TL SH-AWD up to the 1/4 mile mark is as fast as an SHO (C&D results)

TheOMan

I actually looked at the SHO and if it had a manual transmission option, I might be driving that today instead of the TL I currently have.

Booya4139

no kidding? they give you a 150k mile warranty?

Lechip

I'm happy to see these 2 cars compared in this thread since I used to have a 94 SHO and I currently drive an 08 TL. I really do like the new SHOs but I sincerely hope they are more reliable that the 94 I had. In three years of ownership (from 98 to 2001) I spent $7,000 in repairs. One of the reasons I bought the Acura is for the reliability factor. I thought about test driving one of the new SHOs but after my past experiences, I will probably trade up to a newer TL.

Brock79

No, it's not a standard warranty. I had to pay 1500 bucks to get that warranty. Well worth it IMO, the engine however is only warrantied up to 125k miles. Under the same warranty along with the trans and differentials.

Brock79

My buddy had a 93, and was always having problems with the engine. It was a Yamaha engine in the early generations and supposedly could rev up to 9grand. I did find some info though on everyone talking about the handling and how the TL performs better. I looked at the skidpad numbers and found the TL's best was .79 while the SHO was .84, that would give the SHO the upper hand. I haven't looked up slalom times and speeds yet but I'm sure it will be very similar with TL being a tad slower. One thing that has been bugging me since I got my TL though is the lack of a keypad entry. Sometimes if I'm out at the gym or jogging, I like to lock my keys in the car and use the keypad to unlock when I return. That has always been a nice feature, also you would think the TL would have BLIS standard, I don't even know of it's an option.

amill

Lol. You're the first person I've ever heard say that they like that 1990's keypad on their door.

Brock79

Well, on the SHO it's not on the door as the way you have seen most of them. It's to the right of the drivers window and is completely black and unnoticeable until you swipe your hand over that area. The numbers then light up red. I also like that feature about it how it blends right in.

AlexG_6MT

iTrader: (1)

On most newer Fords I believe it is the same. Honestly this is one of my favorite features on any Ford, they must have a patent on it because I have never seen another manufacture include it.