Portbay

Hello, I am new to this forum. My 2012 TL was stolen from my driveway about a week ago and recovered by the police in another city in NJ. I went to the “yard” where they towed my car to yesterday. The thieves ripped out the the plastic box in the headliner above the rear view mirror where the interior lights are and they disconnected some wires that were behind that box. They also ripped off my rear view mirror beneath that box from my windshield. Any idea why they would have done those two things? aside from pure vandalism? Was there any GPS tracking abilities they disabled?
my car also starts but when I put it in drive, the engine stalls. Any idea why that would happen? Is there any chip or electrical component they removed that would prevent my TL from driving now? I am going to the yard again today with my pick up truck and a rented car trailer from haul. I am going to trailer my car home and I hope to figure out what they did to my car once here but any insight from a fellow forum member on these curious issues would be greatly appreciated. I surfed the internet looking for all types of leads on possible reasons why these the thieves might have done these acts but I couldn’t find any info.
Any help provided greatly appreciated. I only have liability on my policy so there is no insurance company involved in the repair. I love my TL and I hope to get it back on the road once I figure out what the thieves did to my car. Again, any possible motivation for those curious actions, greatly appreciated.
Also, if someone might be able to direct me to another website for more information about those two components and how/why thieves would destroy those two items and what they disabled by doing so, also greatly appreciated.
I should have my car back home later today and hope to have better insight on what the thieves did once I get my car home. Thank you in advance for any help you might provide.
cheers
portbay

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Hello, Sorry this happened to you. It's hard to fully understand why thieves do the things they do. It sounds like pure vandalism. Although, they might have thought you had a dash cam .. that's the only reason why someone would rip out the rear view mirror area. Very interested in seeing the damage in order to help you figure out what you need. Glad the vehicle was recovered

Portbay

Thank you again, I found the car talk forum and posted the same thread there so I am going to just use the car talk forum instead of this 4G TL forum, probably a better place for this tread. I am a newbie to this board but I love it already
cheers
portbay

echodigital

It is an odd set of items to remove. At some point, you will need to take it to a mechanic to check things out.

Portbay

I think I should be able to sort out the issues once I get the car home but I could really use some specific information about the 2012 TL, especially the component above the rear view mirror in the headliner. There are definitely wires running behind there. I have a sunroof so I know some of the wires are for that but I am not sure if any would be for a GPS type component. Aside from just pure vandalism, I am guessing there was a reason they ripped it out.
if anyone has any input on that component I would sure appreciate knowing what else might be behind that piece that they wanted to get at.
cheers
portbay

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

without knowing what was damaged, how can we help?

awaiting pictures so we can help.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

or you can browse the parts list at

https://www.acuraoemparts.com/

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

there is no GPS or anything of importance in the area that was vandalized.

unless they really wanted your garage opener buttons and or the hands free link module.

it sounds like pure vandalism

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Edward'TLS

Portbay, if you park your TL outside your house, make sure you store both key fobs inside a RFID sleeve. Only this way can prevent car thieves from using those high-tech transponder/repeater devices to unlock the TL doors and drive away the TL as if they have the genuine key fob.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

happens a lot.

Portbay

Thank you for some good input already. The u haul dealer didn’t have the “car carrier” trailer when I went to pick it up this morning so I am trying the same plan tomorrow. Hopefully they will have the trailer for me tomorrow morning.

as you might expect, I am anxious to “learn” what damage or reason they stole my car. It’s difficult for me to believe someone would steal a car for joy riding but I would be very happy if that was all they wanted my car for.

Whenever I get my car back home, I will certainly take some pics. Hopefully it’s sometime tomorrow pending the uhaul trailer I rented.

cheers
portbay

csmeance

best of luck with the repairs. Your best bet is the acura dealer or indy shop that specializes in electrical issues first as other issues may be ongoing and other wires damaged.

First and foremost is your car one with navi? If yes, they messed with the keyless bypass system in some way or damaged some wires tied to ignition or fuel. Factory security systems cut the fuel pump power so I'm guessing they jumped it from somewhere.

I'd imagine they messed with the upper center console to get rid of blinking lights or too look for a hardwired camera/GPS mount or something of the nature.

Also you are going to want to have the underside of the car checked make sure no curbs or objects ran over.

Portbay

Thank you csmeance, very good advice and the logical place to start when I get her home.
cheers
portbay

Portbay

Portbay

Well I got my car to my mechanic safely. Took about 6 hours door to door but it only cost me $80 plus fuel and no damage while shipping, that was actually my biggest concern. I did find there is a knock out switch that allows you to put the car in neutral. That was great to learn.

I sent the two pictures of the headliner box and the missing rear view mirror above, I am still very curious why they did that, I will post their motive, if there is one?

My biggest issue now is the engine starts but dies immediately and that is very concerning! If anyone has any idea what might cause that I am searching for possible causes now. I hope it’s nothing very expensive to fix.

I will post more info as I find out more.

cheers
portbay

csmeance

not sure how smart crim's are these days... might have been disconnecting the mic's in the car.

There's a case of the FBI solving a cold case via a recording from the car's onboard mic. In that case it was a GM/Chevy Pickup left in the middle of the woods with the owner murdered in the bed of the truck. The case was cold for a number of years. FBI got a hold of the pickup and extracted the audio/data files and stumbled across the night of the murder. Found a friend of the deceased was using the infotainment system of the truck (with audio recording of commands) in the timeframe of the murder. Picked up the "friend" and after a short interrogation he confessed.

Portbay

Wow, that is interesting. Where is the mic located oil the rear view mirror?
cheers
portbay

Portbay

Oh no, just found a possible cause for engine starting but then dying on Scotty Kilmers website, possibly a blown engine. They recommend doing a compression test on each cylinder to see if there is a blown cylinder. I am going to ask my mechanic to start with that test first and I am afraid that answer might fit my scenario. They came too far to steal my car so there had to be a reason they stole it. It was obviously more than a joy ride if they blew the engine.

Unfortunately for me, this possibility fits my puzzle too well and I don’t have a good feeling now.

My mechanic is an indie and can’t look at my car until Tuesday so I am trying to give him some possible problems to run down when he looks at it on Tuesday.

here is a list of the things I have already come up with so far:
1. Blown engine
2. theft deterrent system
3. key,
4. fuel pressure
5. ECM
6. Fuse

any other possible things to check?

thanks for any input.

cheers
portbay

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

scotty kilmer is like dave ramsey...great advice at face value. beyond that, the their advice is worthless.
so, do not put stock into a blown engine...

the thieves were definitely looking for tracking device/camera. that's the only reason to tear that shit out of there and they didnt even take it.
Do not look for the why, as it's purely vandalism.

these engines are pretty hard to "blow"
sucking up water is one way...drive into a flooded street and have the engine suck up water. water does not compress and will bend components.
another way is to do what I did....have a six speed manual and put the car into the wrong gear at high RPMs. this will also bend components.

it makes more sense that the car cant function without the electrical units, because well the thieves ripped that shit out.

Portbay

Thank you for that input. I truly hope it is a key or something related to the second key that is “locking” the transmission and killing the engine. Engine sounds fine for the short time it runs but dies almost immediately. As you say, maybe just a “key” or key/ECU type issue.

Do you think one of these mobile key specialists might be best to look at it?

I may try calling a few of them this morning to see if I can get lucky.

I appreciate the input very much and hopefully when all is figured out someone else on this forum will benefit from my experience.

I am amazed how little is on the web about this topic, almost nothing. I found this site fairly quickly and it has been very valuable so I plan to stay an active member as long as I own an Acura.

thank you again for all the input already given, very much appreciated.

cheers
portbay

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

it's really hard to diagnose your issues over the web.
one really needs the vehicle in hand to test components to narrow down the issue.

so far, I'm leaning towards the key not being able to talk to the ECU.

Portbay

Agree but here is an update. I Just spoke to a local bonded locksmith. He was very helpful. His recommendations were:

1. go to the car on Monday when the mechanic opens up again. Start the car and see what idiot lights show up.
2. if there is a green light (he thinks it’s a green light for a 2012 Acura TL) then the problem is probably the immobilizer. The ECU is not recognizing the chip in my key. I am hopeful but I have used this (2nd key) in the past and it worked.
3. I can also bring him my key only on Monday and he has a device which can tell him the chip is functioning properly.
4. If it is the key, he can replace it for $200 if I want the Acura folding key or $180 if I want a Honda non folding key. If the chip is bad, then he also has a way to reprogram the chip but we didn’t get into a price if the chip is bad and has to be reprogrammed.
5. if the green light doesn’t come on, then see if any other lights or CEL comes on. If so use a scanner to get the codes that were tripped.

those were his suggestions so far. my mechanic can’t work on it until Tuesday so maybe I can rule out the key issues before he even looks at it.

My guess is if it is not the key then I am probably looking at a very expensive problem, Worst case would be a blown engine.

I will keep updating my findings and decision process for someone else’s benefit using this forum in the future. Hopefully it will help someone else.

cheers
portbay

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

THat's exactly what I would do!!

Portbay

Thank you. You have been very helpful. I am hoping for the best but my instincts are leading to a blown engine. I am hoping my instincts are wrong. I will update this thread as I find out more.
thank you for your input.

cheers
portbay

Joblack

When you start the engine, will it stay running while left in park? While running, does it make any unusual noises or smoke?

Portbay

Joblack no, the engine starts immediately, makes no unusual noises, I can rev the engine briefly, for about two seconds and then the engine dies immediately. I have tried to keep the engine running long enough to get the trans in drive but the engine will not run long enough. Something shuts the engine off immediately. It definitely appears to be an electrical component that kills the engine, maybe the ECU? but why?

I am on my way this morning to check for the “key” light issues displayed in my instrument cluster, my mechanic opens at 8 am. I will also bring the key to the locksmith to have him check if the chip is working in my key. He told me he has a device which can test the chip to see if it is active. I hope it’s the second key that is the problem.

I did read a post on Scotty Kilmer's website that said an engine with a blown cylinder will behave the same way. The ECU (?) or sensor on the cam will detect there is a problem and kill the engine immediately just like mine is doing. Ironically that post was about a stolen vehicle also. This theft doesn’t appear to be “kids” joy riding. They came too far, at 2:30 am and they didn’t take anything off my car that I can detect so far. So what was their motive? I am guessing it might have been some type of “inner city” street racing or something like that.

The key or ECU/key problem is the obvious first place to check and the green light in the cluster will confirm if the “immobilizer” is triggering the engine kill. If I can rule out the key as the cause, then I will ask my mechanic to check the cylinder compression on all cylinders to see if one of them is blown. If that is the problem, then that could kill the engine immediately also.

If you are a mechanic can you think of anything else I can check? My mechanic is an independent and he can’t even look at it until tomorrow (Tuesday) so I am trying to help him by running down with some possible root causes before he looks at it tomorrow.

Right now I have it down to key/ECU and blown cylinder. Any other possible causes that would kill an engine immediately after start up?

thanks for any help you can provide

cheers
portbay

Portbay

Update: I just got back from my mechanic and I hope this is good news. Here are the key points:

1. The key still starts the engine but only runs for 1 second and then dies immediately.
2. I assume the key/ECU are operating properly or the engine wouldn’t start. Correct?
3. There are no lights lighting anywhere in the instrument cluster, it’s completely dark, which is why I never saw anything when it was in the tow yard where my car was recovered.
4. Also none of the gauges in the main instrument cluster are working in the cluster, all of them are dead and do not move even the slightest when the engine starts.
5. Therefore everything is totally dark and non functional in the instrument cluster.
6. The smaller screen above the radio/HVAC controls does light up and is asking for my radio code. The clock works but is showing the wrong time.
7. Nothing seems to have been touched by the thieves in the engine compartment.
8. I think the fuse panel in the 2012 Acura TL, is on the lower left side of the drivers side kick plate and nothing there seems to have been touched at all. Maybe a blown fuse is possible?
9. Is it possible the thieves plugged into the OBD port and changed the performance settings for the engine and transmission electronically?
or is the only way you do that sort of mod is to replace the OEM chip with an after market chip. I am still guessing they stole my car to race it in one of inner city racing locations in the middle of the night. I have heard of these places but I have never heard of stolen cars being used in these races. Any comments appreciated on this point.

I am going to call an Acura dealer now and see if the service manager might be able to give me a clue on the instrument cluster not functioning.

has anyone ever used these online mechanical specialists that can answer questions like these online. I do not want to take my car to a dealer until I know what the problem is, of course I know it’s a chicken or egg dilemma.

any input greatly appreciated.

cheers
portbay

BROlando

Its almost for sure not a blown engine.

The engine can be damaged or destroyed in many ways. But starting for a few seconds and then turning off doesn't indicate a damaged engine.

It indicates an electrical issue. Probably something with the immobilizer system was messed up during the theft. Maybe they installed their own ECU in the car to get it running...or maybe they stole part of the immobilizer system and de-programmed the current (your set) keys.

My stock is in an immobilizer system issue. Some of the stuff they unplugged is likely related to the immobilizer circuitry.

A blown engine would make a lot of noise upon startup, or smoke, or not start at all. If its running fine and then shutting off....its probably just some electrical gremlin.

lol...Scotty Kilmer....

Portbay

Happy to report, I found my problem. Fuse 15 in the fuse box under the hood and fuse 12 in the fuse box lower left kickplate drivers side fuse box. Both were shorted out. Once they were replaced, everything came back online and my engine didn’t die and my car drove normally.



I hope this info helps someone else in the future. I couldn’t find any help anywhere telling me why the instrument cluster was totally dead, and all my electronics and gauges were not working. Totally black. The thieves must have shorted out both fuses to the instrument cluster and I couldn’t get any help from anyone on where to find them or if they even existed. Many people where steering me to computer chips, etc. I knew if I could find the root cause of losing power to the cluster it might solve my problem and it did.



This was really too easy to fix without being able to find the correct info. As I said, I hope it helps someone else in the future. I am sure a dealer would have ripped me off.

here’s where I got lucky. I found an Acura master mechanic from justanswer.com. This guy Amede from NC, gave me great help. It cost me $26 for him to tell me the fuses and the locations to find them. Best $26 I almost ever spent. I am sure a dealer would have charged me $3000 to get it out of their dealership. I will never take any car to any dealer again if it is out of warranty. Even the four Acura dealers (their service managers) I called couldn’t help me. All they wanted me to do was tow the car to them for a cost of $700 and then they had me by the short hairs. No way that was happening.

I tried justanswer.com out of desperation and the Acura master mechanic that I reached online was great! I got very lucky! Thank you Amede!

I hope this information really helps someone else in the future! Easy fix if you know where the two fuses are located. Fuse 15, in the engine compartment fuse box and fuse 12, in the drivers side fuse box. FYI, There are 3 fuse boxes in the 2012 TL. My car is back up and running and Everything seems to be as it was.

I had no comprehensive insurance coverage so it was going to cost me a fortune to get this fixed if I had no choice but to take it to a dealer. Not many honest dealers out there anymore and I am sure they would have been replacing many expensive electrical components before I got my car out of any of their dealerships. They are all crooks.

Again, what could have cost me a fortune, wound up only costing me $550 to get it out of the tow yard; $90 plus gas to uhaul tow it back home; and $26 to Amede at justanswer.com. My mechanic charged me nothing to change my fuses.

I know I got lucky but it took me at least 30 hours of my own time to chase everything down, that’s OK though, because I am retired.

good luck to anyone else with a similar problem, I hope my thread can help someone else

cheers
portbay711

Portbay

Case solved and closed!

thanks for anyone that read my thread and tried to help me.

kind regards
portbay711

Portbay

Portbay

Portbay

Portbay

These pictures are the schematic for the instrument cluster. The two power sources supplied to the cluster are in the top left corner of the diagram. Hopefully you can make out the text when/if you need to expand the diagram for more info. Amede sent me this diagram from Acura’s reference documentation.

there is also a “multiplex head unit” circuit board next to fuse 12 in the driver’s side fuse box. My circuit board was not damaged so I didn’t need to replace that, I only had to replace fuse 12.

hope these diagrams help.

cheers
portbay

Portbay

Portbay

Hopefully this picture allows you to see the text better.

cheers
portbay

Misery

I spoke with a young offender and he confirmed just how it easy it is for thieves to break into modern cars nowadays with these devices. I bought a Faraday box afterwards smh...