Ascension

I managed to get everything situated with the title and plates. Then, I attempted to clean the interior up a bit. It will probably take another round, or two, in order to get it as spotless as possible. The only modification that the car had was the ground effects kit. From a quick search, it seems as if it's a generic eBay kit. I don't know whether I like it or not yet. For the moment being, I'll leave it on. The car is not perfect, however, it drives like a dream as it is.

I need to get some aspects up to par before I can push it to its limits. The only discernible differences between the 6MT and 6AT from my experience thus far, is that the 6MT is slightly stiffer/bouncier. The 6MT is such a pleasure to shift.

Here are the pictures I managed to take today:




I'd like some advice from other 6MT owners. Does anyone have any guidance for me in regards to getting accustomed to this clutch? The high grab point seems to be a bit problematic for me. All of my previous manual cars either grabbed at the bottom, or the halfway point. I sometimes have issues starting off from a standstill, and other times smoothly transitioning through upshifts. The clutch feels really smooth, and the shifts are enjoyable. I just want to master the shifts already.

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I'm posting this for future reference once I have the car up to par, and am ready to push it:TL SH-AWD with 6-Speed Manual Transmission (TL SH-AWD® 6MT)

• All-new close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission
• All-new clutch system with increased holding, reduced pedal effort and better feel
• Exclusive tuning for the Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™ (SH-AWD®) system
• Exclusive rate front coil springs
• Exclusive rate front dampers
• Stiffer engine and transmission mounts
• Heavy-duty front driveshafts and CV joints
• Heavy-duty front differential
• Unique Electric Power Steering (EPS) tuning
• Hill Start Assist (HSA) function exclusively designed for the 6-speed manual
• Overall reduction in vehicle weight
• Improved front/rear weight distribution

Ascension

This car's transmission is such an extreme pleasure to drive. It feels blissfully rewarding. Also, I really don't understand how people are reporting that they're only getting 14-18 mpg... They must seriously be driving like they stole the car. I'm used to shifting between 2.5-3k RPM from my previous vehicles, and that's how I've been shifting with the SH-AWD. This was about 50-60% highway:

Ascension

I went for a 5 hour cruise last night, and also pushed the car a bit. The tires are almost bald, so I need to be composed and serious about traction. Here's what I can discern with certainty between the 6AT and 6MT from my experiences thus far, though:

The 6MT:
-is more planted/rigid
-has less overall body roll
-is stiffer/bouncier
-has a more precise/direct steering feel
-the SH-AWD feels more responsive/aggressive in turns
-it feels like it pulls harder than the 6AT, (although, it could be my imagination...)

All I can say for certain, is that if anyone is not sure whether they want the 6MT or not, I guarantee you that it will be one of the more pleasurable/rewarding cars to drive! It's pure ecstasy! In this moment, if I could swap out my 6AT for another 6MT, I would do it!!!

Ascension

Wow, I was getting over 26 MPG with this nasty K&N filter! I just replaced both the intake air filter, and the cabin air filter.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Congrats, this was a fun one to read through.
Years ago, Mayan/Umber was my dream...over time it seemed like too much brown to me but in looking at your
pics I remember why I liked it in the first place. Very cool to find a platform you connect with! I had not considered
the 4G because the 3G is my favorite...so much so that I recently bought back my old kinetic blue 6mt type s for a
THIRD time!

Take care and keep up with updating us, some people still like to read and forum and stuff.

Ascension

Thank you! Now, that I've experienced both the 6AT and 6MT from the 4G platform, and comprehend the stark difference of both through my own direct experience, I'm sure I would've felt the same way you do about the 3G Type-S. I only had the chance to experience the 5AT in my 2007 Type-S, and it was the best FF platform vehicle which I have had up to this point in my life. The 6MT and the LSD surely must make all of the difference when it comes to driving engagement. I've only ever purchased the same exact vehicle twice, and it was my 1998 Audi A8, mainly because of the unique financial situation I was offered with it. I've only wanted to experience new cars and platforms since, though. I suppose I can relate a bit to your sentiment with my 2004 STi, since I've had it for over 12 years. I just can't permit myself to get rid of it. Perhaps, I'd feel guilty and at a loss if I ever did.

I absolutely loved my time with the 3G Type-S, and during my time with it, I didn't know that I'd eventually end up selling it in order to acquire two 4G SH-AWD's. I personally feel that the 2012 6AT SH-AWD is better in every single facet compared to the 4G 5AT Type-S, from my own direct experience. It's like climbing a ladder of thrills. The 6MT further expands the thrill over the 6AT. It's only aspect to read about these differences from others, and it's a completely other aspect to actually experience them for yourself. The 6MT just behaves so differently, and it feels more "alive" and connected. The shorter gears also help make it feel quicker. Even though it's only about 100 lb lighter than the 6AT, it feels way lighter than that during actual driving.

I wanted Mayan Bronze with the Umber Brown combination for a very long time, and 6MT was the best bonus I could've ever received. It felt so rewarding and fulfilling to finally acquire it. A year ago, in Novemeber 2021, I drove out on a whim overnight without caring for the consequences. I headed out to Harrisburg, PA because a car was posted online hours before. It was a 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT in Mayan Bronze over Umber Brown. A dealer had it in their inventory. When I arrived at the dealership, they told me that they can't sell the car and only posted it for marketing reasons. They didn't know someone would make a ~6 hour drive overnight to buy a car they couldn't sell. It's a story for another thread, however, I will never bother with a dealership ever again because of this experience. I've had flawless business execution with private sellers, on the other hand. Here is a picture of my 3G Type-S next to the car that I wish would've been from the beginning:



I love cars. I love driving.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Absolutely, man...
I'm with you on that. My buddy Brian had a 4G (he used to make forum members the custom grill)...he had it lowered on vossen wheels and it looked VERY good. I know the 4G looks were very polarizing but I, for one, never disliked it. I just happen to have fallen in love with 3G and I know that platform SO well...at this point I have 13 years of knowledge on it...I've owned 2 black base 6MT and now the same type S 3 times...I can't get away from it...every time I don't own one and I see them go by I'm regretful for having sold it.

As far as driving goes...I have a rather large variety of cars currently that ALL give a different driving experience.
Overall, back in 2013 my buddy lent me a manual 3.0 supercharged S5 and I fell in love. To this day I think that car is one of the best driving experiences.
I actually had one for a while...but I also have a dual clutch 2014 S4 that won out on keeping for the household so my gf could also drive it. I have an S2000
which offers the precision and handling but lacks in power in a straight line which is the main driving in Florida...recently bought a Z06 that I've been thoroughly
enjoying...have an e320 wagon which drives more smoothly than any other vehicle on the highway...
every car offers different enjoyment.

anyway, I appreciate your enthusiasm!

I love cars and driving also.

Ascension

It seems that I also admire your passion and enthusiast, as well. You have a great repertoire at your disposal. If you're like me then, then you are grateful and cherish your experiences with your toys.

Yesterday, I had new tires mounted and also changed the oil. Tomorrow, I will have an alignment performed, and then I can begin pushing the 6MT in order to compare it to the 6AT near the limit.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Yes sir, 100 percent.
It's sad to think but car maintenance or parts for the most part, I won't think twice about spending money on but then good food
or other things I'm like well, do I really NEED that?!?!
It borders on mania but it keeps me going while also still maintaining all my responsibilities as a father and adult in general.
Cheers to having things that put a smile our faces.

Ascension

I believe the 6MT has ruined the 6AT for me... I feel that the manual is just so much better in every single way over the automatic counterpart. The most surprising, and welcoming, aspect of the 6MT is that it behaves the same way whether the car is at a cold start, or at fully operating temperature. Shifting has become pure bliss.

Another car that I want to experience is a ZDX. So, now I'm contemplating on selling the 6AT and obtaining a ZDX instead.

I was looking into a Ktuner, and that led me to the Scangauge 3. I have to do some more research if there is a better bang for the buck scan tool, and data logger, other than the Scangauge 3.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

If that's the case, do not look up Gerzy Bear Performance upgrades
AWD is perfectly set up for it.
The only reason the 6AT would stay is if you have a wife that won't drive stick but also loves the model.
Otherwise, I could have told you, manual is the way to go on these cars.

While I wait to sell my 2004 TL I actually have TWO 3G manual TL's and I actually enjoy driving BOTH of them.

Ascension

I don't intend to modify either car in the mechanical aspect, since they're NA. If they were turbo, then I'd be inclined to. However, I went through all of the modification stages in life with my STi, and I'm over it. I've made all of the mistakes, and modified to my heart's content. Now, I just want to enjoy driving for the sheer pleasure of driving. The 3.7L in stock form has adequate power, and I'm satisfied with it. My vice for the last several years has been handling, and hard turns. I kept saying that my next car would be an FR platform, however, the 2007 Type-S landed in my lap. Since then, I've been on an Acura induced euphoric trip.

The 2007 Type-S was the best FF platform vehicle that I have ever driven up to this point in my life. I can't imagine how much better the 6MT is with the LSD.
The 2012 6AT has defied expectations with its weight and superb SH-AWD system.
Now, the 2011 6MT has taken that to the next level.

My next car must be an FR layout, at this point, and I have several options that I'm considering.
1) 2013-2016 Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ
2) 2011-2013 Infiniti G37 IPL
3) 2008-2010 Lexus IS-F

Ascension

Since my last MPG post, I have driven 1,000 miles. My MPG is still rather high, even with the more aggressive driving I've doing in the last several hundred miles...

JM2010 SH-AWD

You're pretty close to what I get. My MPG has gone up a mile or so since I had the piston ring replacement done. In warmer weather with no A/C and about 2/3 highway and 1/3 local, I can average mid 26s or so. In the colder weather or with more local driving, it drops to about 25.5 or so.

vertigo2

I average 24.75 US MPG (9.5L/100km) in my '12 Elite/Advance with about 80% highway. That'll drop a bit now that winter is here and the snow tires are fitted.

Ascension

So, then we are the norm, when it comes to fuel consumption in the 6MT, and the outliers are the people who report 14-18 MPG. That's an interesting observation... How exactly did the piston ring replacement affect your MPG in a positive manner?

dregsfan

With my 6AT if almost all of my driving is on city streets I average about 16 mpg (I don't try to drive for fuel economy) and if it's an 85-90% freeway trip then I get around 26 mpg (at 70-75 mph). So reporting mpg without the context of how and where the car is being driven isn't meaningful, IMO.

I also had the oil consumption repair done. It had zero effect on gas mileage, and I never expected it to have any effect.

vertigo2

Right, before I moved to my current location I was also getting 16-17mpg in all city stop and go driving. My engine rebuild also had no effect on mileage.

Ascension

Upon cold start, I allow the car to warm up 2-3 minutes. When I begin rolling, I try to shift by 2k RPM for the first ~5 minutes while the temperature gauge moves past C. Then, I gradually increase my shifts as the gauge reaches normal operating temperature. During my normal driving, I usually shift by 2.5k RPM, unless I'm on a hill, then it's by 3k RPM.

Today, I cleaned up the interior even more. Then, as I posted in the other thread, I cruised for about 6 hours and began practicing how to heel toe downshift. I also installed reverse LED lights. I'm still waiting on the DRL and fog lights to arrive in the meantime. I fucking love Mayan Bronze over Umber Brown so much!

Ascension

I don't know which exterior I like more, honestly. I love them both the same amount! However, if I am now forced to choose between automatic and manual, the answer is manual without hesitation.



After pushing the 6MT even more, I have to say that the tuning for SH-AWD is much more aggressive than on the automatic. It seems more deliberate, pronounced, and eager to spin the rear around, especially at the limit of understeer. I probably will not have the chance to do so on the street, however, I'm really curious what the car will feel like during a WOT in the middle of a hard turn.

altair47

I think your theory is wrong. From the point of view of physics, when the engine is warming up, it is better to have a minimum load on the bearings and maximum oil flow from the oil pump, you need to drive at higher RPM, if you drive at low RPM, then your bearings are under a lot of load, and the oil pump creates lower pressure. On a hot engine, you can lower the RPM

Ascension

Would you care to guide me with how your procedure is?

altair47

At the same speed in high gear, a greater load acts on the crankshaft than in low gear. This means that at the same speed at high RPM, the engine receives less load than at low RPM. We taught this in middle school in physics in the thermodynamics and TMM section in Russia.

Ascension

After reading about it on the forum, I decided to order the Chemical Guys Stripper Scent last week. It arrived yesterday, and I just got around to spraying it in the cars today. I'll report back later after I drive around with my interpretation of the scent.

dregsfan

Does it smell like $1 bills?

Ascension

Apparently, I didn't spray enough because I didn't smell anything... I sprayed 4 times in each footwell. I'll try again tomorrow.

Ascension

Alright, I sprayed a lot more today and waited a few minutes. Then, I entered the car and took in the smell. Apparently, I don't have the colloquial vocabulary to describe scents... It smells what you'd expect a stripper to smell like. I also read a lot of reviews, and 95% of them state extremely vague words... A few mentioned hints of vanilla, musk, fruitiness, and cinnamon. Here's the official description from Chemical Guys that I agree with after having smelled it:

"Stripper Scent Air Freshener perfumes the air with the smell of success. Chemical Guys master chemists distilled that ohh-so-familiar scent you won’t smell anywhere else and blended it with natural odor-elimination enzymes for a clean air experience any time. The fun fragrance evokes memories made on the shiny brass poles and in the shadowy private booths of elegant clubs. Was her name Summer? Candy? Cinnamon? Even if you couldn’t take her home, here’s a keepsake for every occasion! "

A super majority of the reviewers also stated that the scent doesn't last very long. Some report as little as 15 minutes, and some report as long as a few hours. I suppose I'll spray once or twice a week, then. The scent is enjoyable, though. "An elegant club" is a correct comparison, in my opinion.

Ascension

Now that I've been monitoring parameters with my ScanGauge 3, I decided to wait until the coolant temperature reaches 110 degrees before I begin driving on a cold start. It's literally another minute, or so, on top of what I've been waiting up to this point, which totals 3-4 minutes now. On one of my previous motorcycles, a 2007 Honda CBR 600RR, it was recommended to wait until at least 100 degrees before you begin riding.

Also, I -feel- that the 6MT warms up quicker than the 6AT. If I truly want to test this theory out, I'll have to log both cars to verify.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I think if fuel oil pressures are good to go, which they are designed to be...
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Then again, I'm in Florida and more concerned with the other way around.

Stripper scent? I honestly think all those spray in the car fresheners are FOS and only intended to be
spraye by a car wash place moments before giving the car back to a customer. Very few smells actually last...
except gear oil...if you spill that into the carpet of your 1987 SR5 Corolla back in 1996, it'll still smell like that now methinks.

Ascension

I just wanted to be able to monitor various parameters that I don't usually consider and pay any attention to. It's a unique, new perspective and insight. I've never had any issues on any cars in the past, so I'm not worried about it.

What does "FOS" stand for? I'll agree that what 90% of the reviewers state regarding the scent not lasting is true. However, while the scent lasts, it is pleasant.

Ascension

Alright, so the 6MT burns more oil than the 6AT. My theory is due to the difference in RPM. Since the 6MT has shorter gears, and I also rev higher overall, it burns more oil. This must be especially true on the highway. In situations where the 6AT is at 2k RPM or less, the 6MT is at 2.5k RPM. An average difference of about 500 RPM in 6th gear seems to be accurate based on my observations.

My MK4 TDI also used to eat more oil with the OEM 5th gear. Once I swapped out the European, longer 5th gear, it stopped eating oil. The difference in RPM was right around ~400 RPM between the two gear ratios. It was also a drastic difference in MPG, where it put me over 800 miles per tank during the summer months, which was over 60 MPG.

Ideally in a perfect world, I would swap out for a longer 6th gear, if that's even possible. I have yet to search, though.

altair47

Have you done diagnostics with an endoscope like this one?

BROlando

The biggest load that the pistons can put on the crankshaft is at WOT and in the peak flywheel rated torque band.
You're right that it's not good to bog the car at WOT while it's cold - this is bad for many reasons, not just load.
If you spin an engine at a high RPM, though, you also have reciprocating centrifugal force that will put a ton of load on the crank and bearings.

So...while the car is warming up, neither WOT or high RPM use are recommended.
It's also not recommended to idle an engine to warm it up.

Check the owner's manual. The verbiage will state to start the car, wait a few seconds (maybe 5 - 10), and then drive slowly until the engine comes up to temp.
This is the most efficient and safe way to warm up your engine.
The car specs 5W20 oil...which flows really easily at low temps, all the way down to -40C (same as -40F).

Think about it like this...
Idling to warm up is inefficient. It warms up the engine too slowly.
It also does virtually nothing to warm up any of the other fluids or components, right? The trans and diff are still cold if you're idling to warm the engine.

Driving slowly until the engine warms up ensures that other systems of the car also warm up properly.

The exception to this is arctic temps, where ambient temps are well into the negatives (wind chill doesn't count as it doesn't affect inanimate objects).
In extremely cold temps, you should allow maybe 60 seconds or so for the engine to idle before setting off and starting the slow-drive warm up procedure.

There's very few exceptions to the above. BMW M cars have the only stock, street driven engines I can think of that require an idle warm up.

altair47

Let me correct myself, and I was referring to the higher RPMs in the 2500-3000 range, I wasn't talking about WOT and the high RPMs of 3500-5000.

BROlando

Nice story and congrats on the car.
I read up on all the stuff Acura did to differentiate the manual cars from automatic. It's cool when the little things engineers do end up having such a big result.

As far as the clutch's biting point - yes it's up high in comparison to other cars.
My opinion is....
A low biting point is great on a tractor...but is detrimental on a sporty car.
Race clutches, for example, have an extremely high biting point to make downshifting and heel-toe easier.
I think the 4G TL's clutch biting point works perfectly with the shifter and throttle mapping. Someone spent a lot of time on it.

I don't think a lot of other manual cars actually drive properly and I don't think anyone was paying too much attention to the driving dynamics when designing them.
They basically take a clutch and drivetrain from a truck and toss it into a car :cough Nissan cough:
Look at all the care the engineers at Acura took to ensure that the 6MT would be a treat to drive. Very few other companies spend any time doing that.

But everyone likes different things, so the above is just my opinion. I hate low-biting point clutches lol.

Factually....if you do like a lower biting point...unfortunately, there's no good way to do it with this car's clutch without adjusting the master cylinder rod so far down that you might end up wearing out the synchros.

BROlando

Fair enough. Yeah, shifting ~2.5K at very light throttle is probably about the right shifting RPM to warm up most cars.
Especially for this car, that's enough RPM to move at normal pace without having to tip into the throttle too much.

Ascension

I have not.

After almost a month, I feel like I'm finally mastering the clutch now. In turn and truth, I have actually learned to love it. I feel that driving this vehicle is a reward; a treat. Every shift feels so sublime.

From my experience, even 2k RPM felt sufficient. Although, after our conversations here lately, I've begun to increase my shifts to the ~2.2k RPM range recently. It still feels the same, per se.

Here is a picture from my current point of view during cruising:

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

That is interesting and I also concur...having the S2000 and Z06 now in manual at the same time, I have been analyzing clutch feel and why one feels easier to drive smoothly than the other.
It really comes down to the pivot point of your heel and the angle of your leg dependent on seating position. In the TL-S I find that I will engage the pedal completely on gear changes and then I almost leave myself a small delay where I'm not really disengaging clutch and applying gas pedal until I FEEL the engagement point high up...only because it's hard to take your heel off the ground and determine where you are in the pedal travel for a consistent push in, shift, release. I tried for a while to kinda ballpark up high how far in I needed to push the clutch to engage the gear without grinding and played with the pedal throw and taking up some slack...but to @BROlando 's point, that's an exercise in wearing synchros and possibly grinding, so, not worth it.

The TL can be driven smoothly, but it takes a lot more finesse and awareness than both the S2000 and the Corvette.

Ascension

I am at an extraordinarily intriguing crossroad right now... I have the opportunity to purchase, yet again, another 6MT! This time, it's a murdered out, all black 2010 6MT. I do have to make multiple moves in order to allow this to come to fruition, though. I have a lot of heavy contemplating to do, and it's going to be a rough Saturday if I manage to pull this through. The opportunity is too tremendous to just dismiss the car altogether.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

what the hell are you gonna do with TWO of them!??!

sell the auto though, I'm on board with that.
even looks wise I never liked the look of the refreshed 4G, the OG looked more aggressive.

Just make the Mayan amazing, find aspec kit for it etc....