Hello I'm new...yesterday I went car shopping...
09-20-2010, 03:39 PM
#1
Hello I'm new...yesterday I went car shopping...
Hello everybody I'm Dominic and I never owned an Acura before.
I'm the very happy owner of a 2003 6 speed manual Nissan Maxima (bought new) and I'm considering replacing it with an Acura TL SH-AWD 6 speed.
I'm absolutely in love with this car, nothing even come close to compare in that price range.
Usually in my purchase decisions I never consider any brand that is not one of the Jap big 3 (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) + Subaru...reliability is paramount for me.
However, yesterday I decided to check out the German competition.....wow, either something is wrong with me or something is very fishy with the industry magazines (in particular C&D and their adulation of BMW).
First I went to a BMW dealership....I did look at the 335i and the disappointment was huge...are these guys serious?? The feeling of cheapness about the interior of a 335 sedan I was looking at was almost unbearable...the thin seats that leave your shoulder exposed, the plastic quality, the cardboard-like panel at the bottom of the trunk....
For the same price I can get (and I'm definitely getting) a TL SH-AWD 6 speed.
As far as size, the TL compares with the 5 series, the rich interiors, a state of the art AWD and an unbeliavable technology package...try to compare the seats of the Tl with the 3 series.....the bimmer by comparison look like an Honda Civic...just a regular daily commuter...
Next I visited an Audi dealer.
Even the so highly praised interiors of an Audi A4 cannot hold a candle to a TL....just one little detail to give you an idea...the folders in the back of the front seats, in the A4 are just two squares of nylon nets, in the TL are padded leather....
The 3 series front suspension is a McPherson setup compared to a double wishbone for the TL.
Yes the 3 series is a very balanced traditional real wheel drive sedan but try doing something stupid like stomping on the gas on a tight curve (especially on wet pavement) and do the same on a TL SH-AWD and you will see the difference...(the heavier Acura actually did beat the 335 on a track)
A last note about styling.....people have just a herd mentality...sheep...everybody wants to be "different" stand out from the crowd and then when one car really stand out and offer something real different ithan the ocean of sameness, it becomes ugly...go figure....if you park a 3 series next to a TL, the Bimmer look like your daily commuter and the big Acura your fun time luxury drive....
I will probably negotiate the price on a 6 speed SH-AWD Mayan Bronze with Umber leather....let's see if they take 36K + destination charge and taxes....and I want Blue Book value for my Maxima which is in perfect condition, a typical garage queen...
I'm the very happy owner of a 2003 6 speed manual Nissan Maxima (bought new) and I'm considering replacing it with an Acura TL SH-AWD 6 speed.
I'm absolutely in love with this car, nothing even come close to compare in that price range.
Usually in my purchase decisions I never consider any brand that is not one of the Jap big 3 (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) + Subaru...reliability is paramount for me.
However, yesterday I decided to check out the German competition.....wow, either something is wrong with me or something is very fishy with the industry magazines (in particular C&D and their adulation of BMW).
First I went to a BMW dealership....I did look at the 335i and the disappointment was huge...are these guys serious?? The feeling of cheapness about the interior of a 335 sedan I was looking at was almost unbearable...the thin seats that leave your shoulder exposed, the plastic quality, the cardboard-like panel at the bottom of the trunk....
For the same price I can get (and I'm definitely getting) a TL SH-AWD 6 speed.
As far as size, the TL compares with the 5 series, the rich interiors, a state of the art AWD and an unbeliavable technology package...try to compare the seats of the Tl with the 3 series.....the bimmer by comparison look like an Honda Civic...just a regular daily commuter...
Next I visited an Audi dealer.
Even the so highly praised interiors of an Audi A4 cannot hold a candle to a TL....just one little detail to give you an idea...the folders in the back of the front seats, in the A4 are just two squares of nylon nets, in the TL are padded leather....
The 3 series front suspension is a McPherson setup compared to a double wishbone for the TL.
Yes the 3 series is a very balanced traditional real wheel drive sedan but try doing something stupid like stomping on the gas on a tight curve (especially on wet pavement) and do the same on a TL SH-AWD and you will see the difference...(the heavier Acura actually did beat the 335 on a track)
A last note about styling.....people have just a herd mentality...sheep...everybody wants to be "different" stand out from the crowd and then when one car really stand out and offer something real different ithan the ocean of sameness, it becomes ugly...go figure....if you park a 3 series next to a TL, the Bimmer look like your daily commuter and the big Acura your fun time luxury drive....
I will probably negotiate the price on a 6 speed SH-AWD Mayan Bronze with Umber leather....let's see if they take 36K + destination charge and taxes....and I want Blue Book value for my Maxima which is in perfect condition, a typical garage queen...
09-20-2010, 05:37 PM
#4
The G37 is also a very impressive package for the money like the TL but with a slightly different target market that is more typical for the rest of that market range. The TL SH (especially 6MT) is such a unique package and combination of attributes for it's price.
It's size, capacity, level of performance, standard features, luxury appointments, quality, refinement and AWD system are not things you see all placed together for it's price anywhere else. Combine that with Honda's reliability, resale, safety and low cost maintenance and that's why you are here, like the rest of us.
I personally agree and don't feel anything is wrong with you. I have and continue to stress my opinion that German rivals are overrated and overpriced. They are nice vehicles and people still buy them for good reason, whatever they may be or based on but it's good to see a non Honda/Acura guy also take notice of the TL and see it the same way most of us do.
And Acura clearly aims the car (at least the SH trims) at higher priced mid levels like the 5 series, etc. It is the only other luxury sedan besides the 5 series to offer that type of capacity, AWD and 6MT combination. It makes for a great mid level alternative.
It's size, capacity, level of performance, standard features, luxury appointments, quality, refinement and AWD system are not things you see all placed together for it's price anywhere else. Combine that with Honda's reliability, resale, safety and low cost maintenance and that's why you are here, like the rest of us.
I personally agree and don't feel anything is wrong with you. I have and continue to stress my opinion that German rivals are overrated and overpriced. They are nice vehicles and people still buy them for good reason, whatever they may be or based on but it's good to see a non Honda/Acura guy also take notice of the TL and see it the same way most of us do.
And Acura clearly aims the car (at least the SH trims) at higher priced mid levels like the 5 series, etc. It is the only other luxury sedan besides the 5 series to offer that type of capacity, AWD and 6MT combination. It makes for a great mid level alternative.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 09-20-2010 at 05:42 PM.
09-20-2010, 06:59 PM
#6
5th Gear
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Well Saturno - i can tell you from owning an acura 2.5 tl first owner lasted 11 yrs just gave it away it had 334k+ miles on it. it lasted a LONG time and i had very little issues with it throughout the years. i testify by acura's well not all of them but i like the bigger sedan looking ones. the TL almost got me but i can't get past the grill. you will be making a great choice by dumping your nissan for acura. i'm not a huge fan of nissans either i use to own one when i was younger. they feel cheap. as for the BMWs any series below a 5 is not worth investing in. they don't do well in inclement weather and have some performance issues...just my opinion. 7 series is the best but guess its preference.
09-20-2010, 07:36 PM
#7
Drifting
Careful, usually when one utters the kind of blasphemy you have in your message about BMW/Audi, they are subject to an avalanche of disbelieving ridicule from the Germano-philes.
I narrowed my choices to a set similar to yours, but included the G37 and excluded Audi because of its history of very-iffy reliability. My observations were similar to yours. In particular the BMWs drive nicely, but the value proposition is ridiculous.
Good luck on picking up the 6MT. I used to have a MT Maxima. I think you'll really like the TL SH-AWD.
Let us know when you pick yours up.
I narrowed my choices to a set similar to yours, but included the G37 and excluded Audi because of its history of very-iffy reliability. My observations were similar to yours. In particular the BMWs drive nicely, but the value proposition is ridiculous.
Good luck on picking up the 6MT. I used to have a MT Maxima. I think you'll really like the TL SH-AWD.
Let us know when you pick yours up.
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09-20-2010, 09:07 PM
#8
The G37 is also a very impressive package for the money like the TL but with a slightly different target market that is more typical for the rest of that market range. The TL SH (especially 6MT) is such a unique package and combination of attributes for it's price.
It's size, capacity, level of performance, standard features, luxury appointments, quality, refinement and AWD system are not things you see all placed together for it's price anywhere else. Combine that with Honda's reliability, resale, safety and low cost maintenance and that's why you are here, like the rest of us.
I personally agree and don't feel anything is wrong with you. I have and continue to stress my opinion that German rivals are overrated and overpriced. They are nice vehicles and people still buy them for good reason, whatever they may be or based on but it's good to see a non Honda/Acura guy also take notice of the TL and see it the same way most of us do.
And Acura clearly aims the car (at least the SH trims) at higher priced mid levels like the 5 series, etc. It is the only other luxury sedan besides the 5 series to offer that type of capacity, AWD and 6MT combination. It makes for a great mid level alternative.
It's size, capacity, level of performance, standard features, luxury appointments, quality, refinement and AWD system are not things you see all placed together for it's price anywhere else. Combine that with Honda's reliability, resale, safety and low cost maintenance and that's why you are here, like the rest of us.
I personally agree and don't feel anything is wrong with you. I have and continue to stress my opinion that German rivals are overrated and overpriced. They are nice vehicles and people still buy them for good reason, whatever they may be or based on but it's good to see a non Honda/Acura guy also take notice of the TL and see it the same way most of us do.
And Acura clearly aims the car (at least the SH trims) at higher priced mid levels like the 5 series, etc. It is the only other luxury sedan besides the 5 series to offer that type of capacity, AWD and 6MT combination. It makes for a great mid level alternative.
winstrolvtec
Actually, as far as I know (I did ask to the BMW salesman and I did check the catalog) the 5 series is not available in AWD and manual transmission.
Only the 3 series in the BMW lineup is awailable with AWD and a 6 speed manual tranny......and the BMW xDrive is a full generation behind the SH-AWD system in terms of capabilities....
The Audi A4 nowdays comes only with the 2 liter turbo 4 banger (211 HP), the larger (and extremely boring with an horrendous dash) A6 comes only with an automatic transmission.
In order to get a manual AWD in the Audi lineup with at least 300 horses and more than 4 cilinder you have to get into S4 or S6 territory...(and I still like the look of the TL better!!!)
No manual option for the Infiniti AWD models (both the G and the M)
As a cheaper smaller alternative to the TL, I would have considered the Subary Legacy GT Limited but unfortunately I cannot locate one with a manual transmission in WA state.
I love Subarus and their superb AWD system but I was a bit disappointed at the new Legacy regarding the look and the 4 cilinder turbo engine with "only" 265 HP....I was expecting a top of the line Legacy with at least 300 ponies in the current iteration....
09-21-2010, 02:55 AM
#9
I was still thinking about the 2010 and last generation model as I was not sure if the 2011 had released with xDrive just yet but you are correct the 2011 will have no 6MT with AWD combo.
I see no option or package for the active ZF differential that they and Audi both use in select models either. Looks like that will be reserved for the M model despite the rumors. There is no 528xi option anymore either, at least for now. That makes a new basic 5 with AWD (535xi) at least $5k more expensive to start than in the past. I think both of these things raise the value proposition of the TL SH even more now.
The Legacy GT is an awesome car, I am a big fan of it but I think the premium for the TL is worth it all things considered. You can't go wrong with either. Have you also considered the new 11' WRX STI 4dr?
I see no option or package for the active ZF differential that they and Audi both use in select models either. Looks like that will be reserved for the M model despite the rumors. There is no 528xi option anymore either, at least for now. That makes a new basic 5 with AWD (535xi) at least $5k more expensive to start than in the past. I think both of these things raise the value proposition of the TL SH even more now.
The Legacy GT is an awesome car, I am a big fan of it but I think the premium for the TL is worth it all things considered. You can't go wrong with either. Have you also considered the new 11' WRX STI 4dr?
09-21-2010, 06:16 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
The G37 is also a very impressive package for the money like the TL but with a slightly different target market that is more typical for the rest of that market range. The TL SH (especially 6MT) is such a unique package and combination of attributes for it's price.
It's size, capacity, level of performance, standard features, luxury appointments, quality, refinement and AWD system are not things you see all placed together for it's price anywhere else. Combine that with Honda's reliability, resale, safety and low cost maintenance and that's why you are here, like the rest of us.
I personally agree and don't feel anything is wrong with you. I have and continue to stress my opinion that German rivals are overrated and overpriced. They are nice vehicles and people still buy them for good reason, whatever they may be or based on but it's good to see a non Honda/Acura guy also take notice of the TL and see it the same way most of us do.
And Acura clearly aims the car (at least the SH trims) at higher priced mid levels like the 5 series, etc. It is the only other luxury sedan besides the 5 series to offer that type of capacity, AWD and 6MT combination. It makes for a great mid level alternative.
It's size, capacity, level of performance, standard features, luxury appointments, quality, refinement and AWD system are not things you see all placed together for it's price anywhere else. Combine that with Honda's reliability, resale, safety and low cost maintenance and that's why you are here, like the rest of us.
I personally agree and don't feel anything is wrong with you. I have and continue to stress my opinion that German rivals are overrated and overpriced. They are nice vehicles and people still buy them for good reason, whatever they may be or based on but it's good to see a non Honda/Acura guy also take notice of the TL and see it the same way most of us do.
And Acura clearly aims the car (at least the SH trims) at higher priced mid levels like the 5 series, etc. It is the only other luxury sedan besides the 5 series to offer that type of capacity, AWD and 6MT combination. It makes for a great mid level alternative.
The TL is one of the best buys in the price range. However, Acura missed the mark with the grille. It would have been near the top in sales, otherwise. My 05 runs great (bought it new). I paid it off over a year ago. I plan on driving without a car note for 3 or more years.
The bottom line is that people will always associate the Germans with luxury. Both my fiancee and I are doctors. I drive an 05 TL and she an 07 Ford Escape. He aunt was asking why we didn't drive better cars since we're doctors. I asked what would be considered better. She said BMW
In many laypeople Acuras are probably looked at similarly to Maximas, Avalons, Milleniums, upscale but not luxury. Luxury is Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and maybe Audi.
Last edited by JAB00; 09-21-2010 at 06:20 AM.
09-21-2010, 10:09 AM
#11
The G37 no doubt is a solid car for its price. However, it is looking rather dated to me, especially the sedan. It has the generic bulbous design common in Japanese cars (Solaris or Avalon). Audi is just too unreliable. I have a friend who went from an IS350 to an A6. He is regretting it. His car has been in the shop repeatedly (blown transmission, electronic gremlins). The Audi dealership gives him some POS rental (Chevy something) to drive when work needs to be done. He is pissed and states he'll never buy Audi again.
The TL is one of the best buys in the price range. However, Acura missed the mark with the grille. It would have been near the top in sales, otherwise. My 05 runs great (bought it new). I paid it off over a year ago. I plan on driving without a car note for 3 or more years.
The bottom line is that people will always associate the Germans with luxury. Both my fiancee and I are doctors. I drive an 05 TL and she an 07 Ford Escape. He aunt was asking why we didn't drive better cars since we're doctors. I asked what would be considered better. She said BMW In many laypeople Acuras are probably looked at similarly to Maximas, Avalons, Milleniums, upscale but not luxury. Luxury is Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and maybe Audi.
The TL is one of the best buys in the price range. However, Acura missed the mark with the grille. It would have been near the top in sales, otherwise. My 05 runs great (bought it new). I paid it off over a year ago. I plan on driving without a car note for 3 or more years.
The bottom line is that people will always associate the Germans with luxury. Both my fiancee and I are doctors. I drive an 05 TL and she an 07 Ford Escape. He aunt was asking why we didn't drive better cars since we're doctors. I asked what would be considered better. She said BMW
In many laypeople Acuras are probably looked at similarly to Maximas, Avalons, Milleniums, upscale but not luxury. Luxury is Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and maybe Audi.
09-21-2010, 10:15 AM
#12
I was still thinking about the 2010 and last generation model as I was not sure if the 2011 had released with xDrive just yet but you are correct the 2011 will have no 6MT with AWD combo.
I see no option or package for the active ZF differential that they and Audi both use in select models either. Looks like that will be reserved for the M model despite the rumors. There is no 528xi option anymore either, at least for now. That makes a new basic 5 with AWD (535xi) at least $5k more expensive to start than in the past. I think both of these things raise the value proposition of the TL SH even more now.
The Legacy GT is an awesome car, I am a big fan of it but I think the premium for the TL is worth it all things considered. You can't go wrong with either. Have you also considered the new 11' WRX STI 4dr?
I see no option or package for the active ZF differential that they and Audi both use in select models either. Looks like that will be reserved for the M model despite the rumors. There is no 528xi option anymore either, at least for now. That makes a new basic 5 with AWD (535xi) at least $5k more expensive to start than in the past. I think both of these things raise the value proposition of the TL SH even more now.
The Legacy GT is an awesome car, I am a big fan of it but I think the premium for the TL is worth it all things considered. You can't go wrong with either. Have you also considered the new 11' WRX STI 4dr?
When I bought my Maxima, I compared with a BMW 530 (E39)....the Bimmer still could not hold a candle to the Maxima in terms of value proposition but at least you were getting an exquisitely, refined interior and beautiful aesthetics.....now the superior cabin is gone...again I could not believe that the Honda Accord interiors are well above the 3 series in the current iteration....
09-21-2010, 01:58 PM
#13
My wife has a 2010 TL (SH-awd/tech/6-MT). We've also owned Audis and BMWs.
I think you've done the same homework as we have and reached the same conclusions.
Enjoy your new ride.
I think you've done the same homework as we have and reached the same conclusions.
Enjoy your new ride.
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