View Poll Results: Given a choice which one would you prefer
ACURA TL SHAWD
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58
54.21%
BMW 535I
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49
45.79%
Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll
Given a choice, which one?
#81
Suzuka Master
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Not sure what the real numbers are but the current 8/11 issue of Car & Driver page 62 has a road test on the new Charger. As part of the article they posted a graph of some competitors quickest to slowest 0-60 & 1/4 mile times among other things. All are AT cars
1. Taurus SHO 5.2 / 13.7
2. Charger 5.2 / 13.8
3. Genesis 4.6 5.3 / 13.9
4 TL SH-AWD 6.2 / 14.7
Car & Driver in another article said this about the 535:
"We knew this car’s 4075-pound weight—nearly 200 pounds heftier than the old 535i—would hamper it in a drag race, but we were surprised by how much slower this car is. We clocked a 0.6-second increase in the 0-to-60 time, which grew to 5.8 seconds. The quarter-mile took an extra half-second, ticking past in 14.3 at 100 mph, 2 mph slower than the old 535i." Motor Trend shows the 535 8sp at 5.6 /14.1
Looks like the old 535 version at 5.2 / 13.8 is the one the TL-SHAWD 6sp should be careful with.
That being said looks like the SHO is the best of them all.
BTW the problem with the TL vid is the car is moving at the 1 second mark in the tape & does not get to 60 till halfway through the 7 second mark. I would not bet my life on the accuracy of a $10 cell phone app.
1. Taurus SHO 5.2 / 13.7
2. Charger 5.2 / 13.8
3. Genesis 4.6 5.3 / 13.9
4 TL SH-AWD 6.2 / 14.7
Car & Driver in another article said this about the 535:
"We knew this car’s 4075-pound weight—nearly 200 pounds heftier than the old 535i—would hamper it in a drag race, but we were surprised by how much slower this car is. We clocked a 0.6-second increase in the 0-to-60 time, which grew to 5.8 seconds. The quarter-mile took an extra half-second, ticking past in 14.3 at 100 mph, 2 mph slower than the old 535i." Motor Trend shows the 535 8sp at 5.6 /14.1
Looks like the old 535 version at 5.2 / 13.8 is the one the TL-SHAWD 6sp should be careful with.
That being said looks like the SHO is the best of them all.
BTW the problem with the TL vid is the car is moving at the 1 second mark in the tape & does not get to 60 till halfway through the 7 second mark. I would not bet my life on the accuracy of a $10 cell phone app.
#83
Here's C&D's test data for the AWD 535 (with auto - the only trans available for 2011 on AWD):
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.6 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.1 sec @ 100 mph
And here's their data for the 535 6-speed MT:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.3 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.3 sec @ 100 mph
And here's their data for the TL AWD 6MT:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Finally, here's C&D's results for the 2012 TL AWD (6AT):
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
So yes, according to Car and Driver at least, the 6MT TL is quicker from zero all the way to somwhere north of 100 mph than the 535 6MT (in other words, comparing cars with similar transmissions). The TL (6MT) is also faster from zero than the AWD 535 (comparing AWD cars) and is faster than both BMWs in a street start of 5-60.
You are correct that the BMW is slightly faster than the 2012 TL AWD Auto - by .4 to .6 seconds in the 1/4 mile. But in the street start, the Acura AT is very close to both 535s (within .1 to .2 seconds).
Zero to 60 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.6 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.1 sec @ 100 mph
And here's their data for the 535 6-speed MT:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.8 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 14.3 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.3 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.3 sec @ 100 mph
And here's their data for the TL AWD 6MT:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Finally, here's C&D's results for the 2012 TL AWD (6AT):
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 6.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
So yes, according to Car and Driver at least, the 6MT TL is quicker from zero all the way to somwhere north of 100 mph than the 535 6MT (in other words, comparing cars with similar transmissions). The TL (6MT) is also faster from zero than the AWD 535 (comparing AWD cars) and is faster than both BMWs in a street start of 5-60.
You are correct that the BMW is slightly faster than the 2012 TL AWD Auto - by .4 to .6 seconds in the 1/4 mile. But in the street start, the Acura AT is very close to both 535s (within .1 to .2 seconds).
Maybe, since all that torque is on demand even while brake torquing but it's strange that there is a notable difference when considering the actual technique and it being applied, where as without it, there probably is barely an acceleration gap.
The two 5's are very much in line as far as acceleration and one is a 6MT RWD, the other an 8AT AWD, so while I don't expect as much of a similarity between the two TL's, the difference seems like it's way more than it should be.
Just an observation but C&D is IMO notorious for getting the worst AT 4G TL times. I also don't understand why there is no other tests of the 6AT SH, a bunch of reviews with estimates but no performance testing.
I pretty much agree with most of this assessment but I am finding that 60 mph on the tach is hit around 7 seconds flat, minus the 1 second intially. At around 7.5 seconds, the tach almost reads 65 mph, I think. Still, there is problem the problem of the intial time lapse and how accurate the tach is.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 07-14-2011 at 01:39 AM.
#84
#85
Three Wheelin'
jjsC5
You said:
In my modest opinion, that is a contradiction right there...if you do not want a manual as your daily driver you are already giving up pleasure of driving for practicality....once you drive a slushbox, front drive or rear drive doesn't really matter...you killed driving pleasure anyway....I would never ever consider an automatic, daily driving or not....I will capitulate to dual clutches if one day cars with 3 pedals will not longer be available....but maybe I'm different, I was born and raised in Europe, home of the twisties and driving nirvana..ehehe
You said:
In my modest opinion, that is a contradiction right there...if you do not want a manual as your daily driver you are already giving up pleasure of driving for practicality....once you drive a slushbox, front drive or rear drive doesn't really matter...you killed driving pleasure anyway....I would never ever consider an automatic, daily driving or not....I will capitulate to dual clutches if one day cars with 3 pedals will not longer be available....but maybe I'm different, I was born and raised in Europe, home of the twisties and driving nirvana..ehehe
As to the other responses to mine, I respect the opinions and there have been some very good responses. I'll just say that I have not driven a 11 535 yet so I could be wrong in my thinking. But for now I'm just going to repeat that based upon what I know, the 535 would be my preference over a TL. But the TL does what we want it to and my wife loves it.
And just to be sure everyone understands, I like the car an awful lot myself. In no way were my comments meant to be a criticism of the TL. Simply a response that for the same money I'd get the BMW. But they are not the same money - not even close to the same money.
#86
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I pretty much agree with most of this assessment but I am finding that 60 mph on the tach is hit around 7 seconds flat, minus the 1 second intially. At around 7.5 seconds, the tach almost reads 65 mph, I think. Still, there is problem the problem of the intial time lapse and how accurate the tach is.
#87
Did you by any chance look at my signature? I have a car with a manual transmission. And it's not by a long shot the first car I have owned with a manual. I have practical reasons for wanting my daily driver to be an automatic but I see no need to defend myself any further.
As to the other responses to mine, I respect the opinions and there have been some very good responses. I'll just say that I have not driven a 11 535 yet so I could be wrong in my thinking. But for now I'm just going to repeat that based upon what I know, the 535 would be my preference over a TL. But the TL does what we want it to and my wife loves it.
And just to be sure everyone understands, I like the car an awful lot myself. In no way were my comments meant to be a criticism of the TL. Simply a response that for the same money I'd get the BMW. But they are not the same money - not even close to the same money.
And just to be sure everyone understands, I like the car an awful lot myself. In no way were my comments meant to be a criticism of the TL. Simply a response that for the same money I'd get the BMW. But they are not the same money - not even close to the same money.
Again......considering your garage, 10-15K gap is not that much for a car that you (or your wife) like better as you stated more than once....why didn't you get the Bimmer??
#88
Viewing the video in a stopwatch like manner is not a bad way to get an idea of what the car runs but we have to also consider a reasonable deduction for the 1 ft roll out, therefore it can't be measured as simply as when the engine starts revving.
#89
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A few 1/10's one way or another does not mean much even with back to back runs which these tests are not. There is no way to match magazine C vs R vs M because of different days, tracks & geographical locations even if it was all done with the same "press car".
Anyone with any breakout racing experience knows to add some time in the afternoon eliminations over what the car was running in the morning time trials. Most likely next time out you will have a whole new set of numbers to work with. Only thing the posted numbers can give you is a range that a pro driver can obtain & no one in their right mid will abuse a car they have to pay for the way a magazine will to get a better number then a rival.
That's why its so much fun to read the pissing contests here then the whining about how slow someone's car is when they actually venture to the track.
Anyone with any breakout racing experience knows to add some time in the afternoon eliminations over what the car was running in the morning time trials. Most likely next time out you will have a whole new set of numbers to work with. Only thing the posted numbers can give you is a range that a pro driver can obtain & no one in their right mid will abuse a car they have to pay for the way a magazine will to get a better number then a rival.
That's why its so much fun to read the pissing contests here then the whining about how slow someone's car is when they actually venture to the track.
#90
Three Wheelin'
I was not attacking you....you are perfectly fine in wanting an automatic daily driver (I don't but that's me) I was just commenting that for a daily driver, FWD or RWD does not matter that much once you are getting an automatic, IMHO...you have already killed the pleasure of driving factor with the slushbox....when you like driving in a certain way you always got your Z06....
There is nohing wrong in wanting the 535 over the TL....some people simply like the style of the 5 Series better...period....I'm simply debating that the 535 is not superior to the TL from any rational/technical/performance point of view.
Again......considering your garage, 10-15K gap is not that much for a car that you (or your wife) like better as you stated more than once....why didn't you get the Bimmer??
There is nohing wrong in wanting the 535 over the TL....some people simply like the style of the 5 Series better...period....I'm simply debating that the 535 is not superior to the TL from any rational/technical/performance point of view.
Again......considering your garage, 10-15K gap is not that much for a car that you (or your wife) like better as you stated more than once....why didn't you get the Bimmer??
![Wish](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wish.gif)
Also, I've always been about value. I understand the concept of "diminishing returns". The BMW is nice, but incremental improvements cost disproportionately more money that in some cases are worth it to me, and some cases are not. In this case my wife is nowhere near the car nut I am, so for her car it's not worth it. In fact, before we got the car she asked if an Accord would be something we should consider. Even though the TL we got is disproportionately more money than an Accord, it has some important features that we considered "must haves"
The debate it is good debate - which I like. Some good folks on this forum.
Last edited by jjsC5; 07-14-2011 at 03:25 PM.
#91
Three Wheelin'
A few 1/10's one way or another does not mean much even with back to back runs which these tests are not. There is no way to match magazine C vs R vs M because of different days, tracks & geographical locations even if it was all done with the same "press car".
Anyone with any breakout racing experience knows to add some time in the afternoon eliminations over what the car was running in the morning time trials. Most likely next time out you will have a whole new set of numbers to work with. Only thing the posted numbers can give you is a range that a pro driver can obtain & no one in their right mid will abuse a car they have to pay for the way a magazine will to get a better number then a rival.
That's why its so much fun to read the pissing contests here then the whining about how slow someone's car is when they actually venture to the track.
Anyone with any breakout racing experience knows to add some time in the afternoon eliminations over what the car was running in the morning time trials. Most likely next time out you will have a whole new set of numbers to work with. Only thing the posted numbers can give you is a range that a pro driver can obtain & no one in their right mid will abuse a car they have to pay for the way a magazine will to get a better number then a rival.
That's why its so much fun to read the pissing contests here then the whining about how slow someone's car is when they actually venture to the track.
I'm pretty knowledgeable of the performance times. I can tell you that beyond just the numbers that my Lexus feels quite a bit faster than my Acura. Some of it doesn't show up in foot-to-the-floor numbers because they don't reflect the overall responsiveness in normal driving. The Lexus engine and transmission are noticeably more responsive in normal driving for instance.
#92
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
My thoughts are this...if you looked at Larry Bird or Tom Brady at just their athletic value you might pass...but when you see what they bring to the table otherwise you're like damn! I'm a Knicks fan and Falcons fan and not really a fan of either but I truly appreciate what the embodiment of their skills, talents, and knowledge.
Heck even Jerry Rice wasn't the fasted WR, but he was the best, ever. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are great, but are they truly applicable to the daily drive? I get caught up on the times myself every now and then, but I come back to the reality that it's about the overall package for me.
Heck even Jerry Rice wasn't the fasted WR, but he was the best, ever. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are great, but are they truly applicable to the daily drive? I get caught up on the times myself every now and then, but I come back to the reality that it's about the overall package for me.
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#93
Suzuka Master
^ Indeed.. what does having the best 0-60 time REALLY bring you? How often does that even come into play? So what if it takes me 1.3 seconds longer to hit 60 than some other cars? ..And how many drivers here are professional drivers and can hit the shift times so well to achieve that low number?
#94
I just returned back from work....on the way I wanted to stop at the Audi dealership to have another look at the A7....I ask if they had a fully loaded one which they had, the 3.0 T prestige......inside the showroom there was an A7 non prestige (standard seats) and I cannot tell you how "poor" the seats felt....narrow, non contoured, no bolsters.....I felt like sitting on a Civic and I'm not joking...the seats of a Mazda 6 felt better than that...
So we reach this white prestige in the parking lot....very nice car on the outside...I still like better the TL but that is highly subjective...
I sit inside and the seats are only marginally better (the perforated and ventilated package) still a far cry from the TL.
In the back seats the story is the same...the TL are fatter, better contoured...
I noticed only marginally (at best) more refined finishing in some areas while some other are worse,....look at the door seals and door panel thickness...the seats pivot points plastic covers are literally flapping.
Nice full alluminum insert, I still like better the TL metal finishing grid pattern (which is real metal contrary to what many believe).
The door panels design look simpler and less refined...no vertical door handles like the TL, just the regular "pits"...the door pockets are hard plastic as the TL no more no less...
So the finishing is somewhat a wash (being generous here)
The design, in my opinion, is "richer" in the TL.
The A7 prestige has more electronic toys compared to the TL......HUD display and night vision, Google search, retractable mirrors.
If you pay the extra you get your Bang & Olufsen stereo system (1300 watt) which I do believe is still a 2.1 system.
8 speed transission instead of 6....in my case I do not care because I drive manual...
Sticker price??? Drumroll.......................79.5K!!! Are they freaking kidding me?? Almost double the price of a fully loaded TL SH-AWD....and despite the higher accessory count, the TL still has some edge....no sport differential in the A7, no weather radar, no GPS-linked climate system.
The seats, for me, are the biggest letdown...
Talking about dininishing return....
So we reach this white prestige in the parking lot....very nice car on the outside...I still like better the TL but that is highly subjective...
I sit inside and the seats are only marginally better (the perforated and ventilated package) still a far cry from the TL.
In the back seats the story is the same...the TL are fatter, better contoured...
I noticed only marginally (at best) more refined finishing in some areas while some other are worse,....look at the door seals and door panel thickness...the seats pivot points plastic covers are literally flapping.
Nice full alluminum insert, I still like better the TL metal finishing grid pattern (which is real metal contrary to what many believe).
The door panels design look simpler and less refined...no vertical door handles like the TL, just the regular "pits"...the door pockets are hard plastic as the TL no more no less...
So the finishing is somewhat a wash (being generous here)
The design, in my opinion, is "richer" in the TL.
The A7 prestige has more electronic toys compared to the TL......HUD display and night vision, Google search, retractable mirrors.
If you pay the extra you get your Bang & Olufsen stereo system (1300 watt) which I do believe is still a 2.1 system.
8 speed transission instead of 6....in my case I do not care because I drive manual...
Sticker price??? Drumroll.......................79.5K!!! Are they freaking kidding me?? Almost double the price of a fully loaded TL SH-AWD....and despite the higher accessory count, the TL still has some edge....no sport differential in the A7, no weather radar, no GPS-linked climate system.
The seats, for me, are the biggest letdown...
Talking about dininishing return....
Last edited by saturno_v; 07-14-2011 at 04:57 PM.
#95
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I just returned back from work....on the way I wanted to stop at the Audi dealership to have another look at the A7....I ask if they had a fully loaded one which they had, the 3.0 T prestige......inside the showroom there was an A7 non prestige (standard seats) and I cannot tell you how "poor" the seats felt....narrow, non contoured, no bolsters.....I felt like sitting on a Civic and I'm not joking...the seats of a Mazda 6 felt better than that...
So we reach this white prestige in the parking lot....very nice car on the outside...I still like better the TL but that is highly subjective...
I sit inside and the seats are only marginally better (the perforated and ventilated package) still a far cry from the TL.
In the back seats the story is the same...the TL are fatter, better contoured...
I noticed only marginally (at best) more refined finishing in some areas while some other are worse,....look at the door seals and door panel thickness...the seats pivot points plastic covers are literally flapping.
Nice full alluminum insert, I still like better the TL metal finishing grid pattern (which is real metal contrary to what many believe).
The door panels design look simpler and less refined...no vertical door handles like the TL, just the regular "pits"...the door pockets are hard plastic as the TL no more no less...
So the finishing is somewhat a wash (being generous here)
The design, in my opinion, is "richer" in the TL.
The A7 prestige has more electronic toys compared to the TL......HUD display and night vision, Google search, retractable mirrors.
If you pay the extra you get your Bang & Olufsen stereo system (1300 watt) which I do believe is still a 2.1 system.
8 speed transission instead of 6....in my case I do not care because I drive manual...
Sticker price??? Drumroll.......................79.5K!!! Are they freaking kidding me?? Almost double the price of a fully loaded TL SH-AWD....and despite the higher accessory count, the TL still has some edge....no sport differential in the A7, no weather radar, no GPS-linked climate system.
The seats, for me, are the biggest letdown...
Talking about dininishing return....
So we reach this white prestige in the parking lot....very nice car on the outside...I still like better the TL but that is highly subjective...
I sit inside and the seats are only marginally better (the perforated and ventilated package) still a far cry from the TL.
In the back seats the story is the same...the TL are fatter, better contoured...
I noticed only marginally (at best) more refined finishing in some areas while some other are worse,....look at the door seals and door panel thickness...the seats pivot points plastic covers are literally flapping.
Nice full alluminum insert, I still like better the TL metal finishing grid pattern (which is real metal contrary to what many believe).
The door panels design look simpler and less refined...no vertical door handles like the TL, just the regular "pits"...the door pockets are hard plastic as the TL no more no less...
So the finishing is somewhat a wash (being generous here)
The design, in my opinion, is "richer" in the TL.
The A7 prestige has more electronic toys compared to the TL......HUD display and night vision, Google search, retractable mirrors.
If you pay the extra you get your Bang & Olufsen stereo system (1300 watt) which I do believe is still a 2.1 system.
8 speed transission instead of 6....in my case I do not care because I drive manual...
Sticker price??? Drumroll.......................79.5K!!! Are they freaking kidding me?? Almost double the price of a fully loaded TL SH-AWD....and despite the higher accessory count, the TL still has some edge....no sport differential in the A7, no weather radar, no GPS-linked climate system.
The seats, for me, are the biggest letdown...
Talking about dininishing return....
Why not compare the TL with a BMW 650 that goes out the door @ $110,000 & you might feel even better about your car being $70K cheaper. Of course the guy who bought a Chevy Malibu for $30,000 most likely thinks you wasted $10K on the TL.
#96
#97
Do you feel better now?......seems like a lot of wasted effort for someone who is happy with what they have.
Why not compare the TL with a BMW 650 that goes out the door @ $110,000 & you might feel even better about your car being $70K cheaper. Of course the guy who bought a Chevy Malibu for $30,000 most likely thinks you wasted $10K on the TL.
Why not compare the TL with a BMW 650 that goes out the door @ $110,000 & you might feel even better about your car being $70K cheaper. Of course the guy who bought a Chevy Malibu for $30,000 most likely thinks you wasted $10K on the TL.
Talking about apples and tangerine here....
A BMW 650 is a V8 dual turbocharged coupe all wrapped in leather......a Malibu is a FWD econo family sedan where you cannot even get leather in the first place I think....never mind the technology options.
The TL and the A7 are comparable in category (large 4 door sedans), size, power (about 300 horses) and overall technology (both permanent AWD, both with front double wishbone and rear multilink suspension)
The dealer was just on my way...no detour..I spent a total of 15 minutes (if that) and I like to look at new cars often....you do that only to feel better about yourself?? No offense but that was a really silly comment....of someone that has nothing constructive to say...
Last edited by saturno_v; 07-14-2011 at 05:44 PM.
#98
A few 1/10's one way or another does not mean much even with back to back runs which these tests are not. There is no way to match magazine C vs R vs M because of different days, tracks & geographical locations even if it was all done with the same "press car".
Anyone with any breakout racing experience knows to add some time in the afternoon eliminations over what the car was running in the morning time trials. Most likely next time out you will have a whole new set of numbers to work with. Only thing the posted numbers can give you is a range that a pro driver can obtain & no one in their right mid will abuse a car they have to pay for the way a magazine will to get a better number then a rival.
That's why its so much fun to read the pissing contests here then the whining about how slow someone's car is when they actually venture to the track.
Anyone with any breakout racing experience knows to add some time in the afternoon eliminations over what the car was running in the morning time trials. Most likely next time out you will have a whole new set of numbers to work with. Only thing the posted numbers can give you is a range that a pro driver can obtain & no one in their right mid will abuse a car they have to pay for the way a magazine will to get a better number then a rival.
That's why its so much fun to read the pissing contests here then the whining about how slow someone's car is when they actually venture to the track.
And in most cases, it only serves as a basis and for a certain sets of circumstances. A faster car may not actually be better suited for daily driving than a slower car and vice versa, and it is also entirely possible for a car to feel much faster or slower than it actually is, which is the focal point of the discussion here more recently.
I agree. Besides the fact that I've been reading car magazines for 46 years now, I also have quite a bit of racing experience. I roadraced motorcycles, and have taken a few of my Corvettes to to the drag strip and auto-crosses from time-to-time.
I'm pretty knowledgeable of the performance times. I can tell you that beyond just the numbers that my Lexus feels quite a bit faster than my Acura. Some of it doesn't show up in foot-to-the-floor numbers because they don't reflect the overall responsiveness in normal driving. The Lexus engine and transmission are noticeably more responsive in normal driving for instance.
I'm pretty knowledgeable of the performance times. I can tell you that beyond just the numbers that my Lexus feels quite a bit faster than my Acura. Some of it doesn't show up in foot-to-the-floor numbers because they don't reflect the overall responsiveness in normal driving. The Lexus engine and transmission are noticeably more responsive in normal driving for instance.
Torque, and also at what point in the powerband it's available, tends to give one that fast moving sensation even if it isn't actually accelerating all that well. Then there is gearing, drivetrain, weight, etc, etc. I kid you not, a CR-V feels like it's faster than even my TL 6MT but it's clearly one of the slower cars I've driven in a while. In either case, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it's just different.
FWIW, I do think the 535 and GS 350 are slightly faster than the SH AT but as I have been saying, I think that is only a small part of why they might feel better suited for daily driving.
#99
saturno_v, If you buy based on bang-for-your-buck, you'll rarely venture out of economy cars and acura/infiniti. Everything else has prestige and unnecessary options tacked on to increase the price.
I wouldn't say that Audi does so many things badly as you state though. When I first drove the A5 (i'm using the A5 since it's a car i'm familiar with), I hated the way the seats (just normal A5 seats, no premium leather or sports pkg) looked and felt. Later, I realized that while they appeared to be more narrow and looked less supportive, they held me in a lot better (than even the shawd seats) when turning and had better back support than both my TLs. It also had more adjustments than the TL. The S5 I looked at had even better seats with a thigh extention piece.
In the A5, there is real wood, and some items (door handle? inserts, some knobs, switches) were either real metal, or metal plated. Unlike the silver painted plastic that floods the TL's cabin.
There's a sliding arm rest, a spot for a cell phone, change slots located next to the shifter. It also has a dedicated compartment for an ipod. The TL, which has no place to put a phone and has a change cubby inconveniently located directly infront of the shifter, which makes change difficult to get with the shifter directly infront of it when parked)
The A5 had (but no longer has) steering linked HIDs that were also self leveling.
6 speed auto that shifts faster than the TLs 5 speed. Manual shift gate for the auto.
The A5 has a reverse cam that has normal parking lines and a steering linked line that shows you where you're going, vs the system in the TL,. It also has (or had) back up sensors standard.
The "MID" for the A5 shows what's playing, shows navigation turns, etc. You can also (and quickly) scroll through albums and music, unlike the TL's which moves at a snails pace.
It has a significantly stronger a/c system and some ridiculous number of fan speeds and heat levels for the seats (somewhere between 7-11?)
Split folding rear seats. Frameless doors.
Can't think of any more at the moment..
You're also paying for the prestige and looks. Looks may be subjective, but do you really want me to start linking the number of reviews of the A5/S5 that had most people drooling.. vs the reviews of the TL that most people generally hated (its looks)? I've taken both the A5 and my TL on road trips, and can say that the A5 EASILY gets more looks. For some, that alone is worth the price premium ($10k comparably equipped).
The A5 also (despite the hp disadvantage) has much more low end torque, or at least more torque earlier. It's worse for FE, but it can easily get moving in daily driving. Whereas in the TL, while having a flatter torque curve, needs to be revved higher to get any power.
btw, the A7 is not a sedan, it's a 5 door that happens to look like a sedan..
I'm curious as to why would one go just to test drive other cars and instead of having fun, complain about everything then come to the conclusion that the more expensive car was more expensive?
also not sure why you'd go out of your way 2x (since you went "to have another look") for a car that clearly does not fit your budget?
I wouldn't say that Audi does so many things badly as you state though. When I first drove the A5 (i'm using the A5 since it's a car i'm familiar with), I hated the way the seats (just normal A5 seats, no premium leather or sports pkg) looked and felt. Later, I realized that while they appeared to be more narrow and looked less supportive, they held me in a lot better (than even the shawd seats) when turning and had better back support than both my TLs. It also had more adjustments than the TL. The S5 I looked at had even better seats with a thigh extention piece.
In the A5, there is real wood, and some items (door handle? inserts, some knobs, switches) were either real metal, or metal plated. Unlike the silver painted plastic that floods the TL's cabin.
There's a sliding arm rest, a spot for a cell phone, change slots located next to the shifter. It also has a dedicated compartment for an ipod. The TL, which has no place to put a phone and has a change cubby inconveniently located directly infront of the shifter, which makes change difficult to get with the shifter directly infront of it when parked)
The A5 had (but no longer has) steering linked HIDs that were also self leveling.
6 speed auto that shifts faster than the TLs 5 speed. Manual shift gate for the auto.
The A5 has a reverse cam that has normal parking lines and a steering linked line that shows you where you're going, vs the system in the TL,. It also has (or had) back up sensors standard.
The "MID" for the A5 shows what's playing, shows navigation turns, etc. You can also (and quickly) scroll through albums and music, unlike the TL's which moves at a snails pace.
It has a significantly stronger a/c system and some ridiculous number of fan speeds and heat levels for the seats (somewhere between 7-11?)
Split folding rear seats. Frameless doors.
Can't think of any more at the moment..
You're also paying for the prestige and looks. Looks may be subjective, but do you really want me to start linking the number of reviews of the A5/S5 that had most people drooling.. vs the reviews of the TL that most people generally hated (its looks)? I've taken both the A5 and my TL on road trips, and can say that the A5 EASILY gets more looks. For some, that alone is worth the price premium ($10k comparably equipped).
The A5 also (despite the hp disadvantage) has much more low end torque, or at least more torque earlier. It's worse for FE, but it can easily get moving in daily driving. Whereas in the TL, while having a flatter torque curve, needs to be revved higher to get any power.
btw, the A7 is not a sedan, it's a 5 door that happens to look like a sedan..
I'm curious as to why would one go just to test drive other cars and instead of having fun, complain about everything then come to the conclusion that the more expensive car was more expensive?
also not sure why you'd go out of your way 2x (since you went "to have another look") for a car that clearly does not fit your budget?
Last edited by jasonwdp10; 07-14-2011 at 06:32 PM.
#100
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Talking about apples and tangerine here....
A BMW 650 is a V8 dual turbocharged coupe all wrapped in leather......a Malibu is a FWD econo family sedan where you cannot even get leather in the first place I think....never mind the technology options.
The TL and the A7 are comparable in category (large 4 door sedans), size, power (about 300 horses) and overall technology (both permanent AWD, both with front double wishbone and rear multilink suspension)
The dealer was just on my way...no detour..I spent a total of 15 minutes (if that) and I like to look at new cars often....you do that only to feel better about yourself?? No offense but that was a really silly comment....of someone that has nothing constructive to say...
A BMW 650 is a V8 dual turbocharged coupe all wrapped in leather......a Malibu is a FWD econo family sedan where you cannot even get leather in the first place I think....never mind the technology options.
The TL and the A7 are comparable in category (large 4 door sedans), size, power (about 300 horses) and overall technology (both permanent AWD, both with front double wishbone and rear multilink suspension)
The dealer was just on my way...no detour..I spent a total of 15 minutes (if that) and I like to look at new cars often....you do that only to feel better about yourself?? No offense but that was a really silly comment....of someone that has nothing constructive to say...
Content is not what the price is based on, its based on how much can you sell it for & some cars sell for more then others based on what the general population sees in them. The guy buying the Malibu my have a bit less content then you do but not 10K worth. That spread is the perceived value difference, what people are willing to pay, as opposed to the cost to build cost difference
About 99% of your posts talks better price, cheaper price on & on. Why are you so concerned what others are willing to spend on a car compared to what you are? If you are happy that you bought a cheaper car than PsychDoc, TechnoCat, YetiTL or anyone else more power to you & more power to PsychDoc, TechnoCat, YetiTL or anyone else that they can buy what they want.
Most people will buy what they like & can afford. For those that can't afford what they buy there is always the repo man, natural selection in action.
For some its fun for some to call the BMW - MB - Audi - Lexus guys lemmings, badge happy, dummies etc & I expect like most things there is some truth in that. That being said, in most cases these car lines can go over $100K out the door & the dummies were smart enough to get jobs that lets them enjoy the car they want even if others think its over priced compared to a TL.
By the way if you can't see the Malibu how about an Accord EX-LV6 for 31K MSRP?
#101
I wouldn't say that Audi does so many things badly as you state though.
When I first drove the A5 (i'm using the A5 since it's a car i'm familiar with), I hated the way the seats (just normal A5 seats, no premium leather or sports pkg) looked and felt. Later, I realized that while they appeared to be more narrow and looked less supportive, they held me in a lot better (than even the shawd seats) when turning and had better back support than both my TLs.
The S5 I looked at had even better seats with a thigh extention piece.
In the A5, there is real wood, and some items (door handle? inserts, some knobs, switches) were either real metal, or metal plated. Unlike the silver painted plastic that floods the TL's cabin.
================================================== ==================================================
The Technology Package also features a 3D metallic trim applied to the instrument panel and doors of the TL. Constructed using Physical Vapor Deposition (PVD) technology, the trim makes use of a lightweight plastic base covered by a thin layer of textured metal film applied on the top. As a result, the trim looks and feels as if it was constructed entirely of metal. However, the trim is lighter weight, it can be easily formed to contour tight curves or odd shapes and it won't dent like metal.
================================================== ================================================== =======
http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=5675-en
There's a sliding arm rest,
Not to mention the contrast stitched leather...
The TL, which has no place to put a phone and has a change cubby inconveniently located directly infront of the shifter, which makes change difficult to get with the shifter directly infront of it when parked)
6 speed auto that shifts faster than the TLs 5 speed. Manual shift gate for the auto.
The A5 has a reverse cam that has normal parking lines and a steering linked line that shows you where you're going, vs the system in the TL,. It also has (or had) back up sensors standard.
The "MID" for the A5 shows what's playing, shows navigation turns, etc. You can also (and quickly) scroll through albums and music, unlike the TL's which moves at a snails pace.
It has a significantly stronger a/c system and some ridiculous number of fan speeds and heat levels for the seats (somewhere between 7-11?)
Split folding rear seats.
Frameless doors.
You're also paying for the prestige
and looks. Looks may be subjective, but do you really want me to start linking the number of reviews of the A5/S5 that had most people drooling.. vs the reviews of the TL that most people generally hated (its looks)?
I've taken both the A5 and my TL on road trips, and can say that the A5 EASILY gets more looks. For some, that alone is worth the price premium ($10k comparably equipped).
The A5 also (despite the hp disadvantage) has much more low end torque, or at least more torque earlier. It's worse for FE, but it can easily get moving in daily driving. Whereas in the TL, while having a flatter torque curve, needs to be revved higher to get any power.
btw, the A7 is not a sedan, it's a 5 door that happens to look like a sedan..
![](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TsdjySqKQlI/TSp3NINNp1I/AAAAAAAAF1k/pi8r33KHkU4/s1600/1982%2BChevrolet%2BCitation%2B5-Door%2BHatchback.%2B-%2B3.jpg)
I'm curious as to why would one go just to test drive other cars and instead of having fun, complain about everything then come to the conclusion that the more expensive car was more expensive?
Also not sure why you'd go out of your way 2x (since you went "to have another look") for a car that clearly does not fit your budget?
Also not sure why you'd go out of your way 2x (since you went "to have another look") for a car that clearly does not fit your budget?
As any car lover, I have fun looking at other cars...more expensive often means lot of value more, in some other cases not...German cars unfortunately, ofen, belong to the second category...again some Infiniti models cost a bit more but offer a bit more as well....I feel that I get my money worth for them, the same for Lexus...
You forgot a base A7 which cost still more than a fully loaded TL SH-AWD and you get crap in terms of accessories...
I never say the the A7 does not fit my budget.....that fact I could afford it doesn't mean I would pony up the cash.....in the 80K there are much better choices...Cadillac CTS-V, BMW 550i, etc.....on the same note, it is pure folly, IMHO, to spend 90K on a Panamera 3.6.....
About 99% of your posts talks better price, cheaper price on & on. Why are you so concerned what others are willing to spend on a car compared to what you are? If you are happy that you bought a cheaper car than PsychDoc, TechnoCat, YetiTL or anyone else more power to you & more power to PsychDoc, TechnoCat, YetiTL or anyone else that they can buy what they want.
For some its fun for some to call the BMW - MB - Audi - Lexus guys lemmings, badge happy, dummies etc & I expect like most things there is some truth in that.
how about an Accord EX-LV6 for 31K MSRP?
Last edited by saturno_v; 07-14-2011 at 08:27 PM.
#102
Jasonwdp10
I forgot to ask you....again, if you think the A5 is so much better and get "more looks" why did you get the TL instead of the A5?? They are very close in price...why didn't you??
I forgot to ask you....again, if you think the A5 is so much better and get "more looks" why did you get the TL instead of the A5?? They are very close in price...why didn't you??
#103
Instructor
I never thought this thread could be more entertaining then the first page or so, but the comparisons made on the 2nd and 3rd pages are priceless!!! Thank you for the entertainment!!!
Last edited by Hamma Tyme; 07-14-2011 at 09:18 PM.
#104
I then realized that $33k, for the premium class wouldn't buy jack. I then moved the limit to sub-$40k post tax. With that, you can almost buy any decently equipped entry level luxury car. The top cars on my list were the TSX, TL, TL SHAWD ($1k over), G37 sedan, IS250. Other cars I somewhat considered: I didn't like the A4, the A5 V6 fully loaded was about $12k over my budget (same for MB C350, didn't like the 300), even the A5 2.0T was $6k or so over, the lexus dealers wouldn't budge on the price for an IS350 and that was floating close to $50k. In the end, It was down to the TSX V6, TL Base, TL SHAWD, Infiniti G37.
The TSX V6 was excluded due to lack of keyless entry, tighter rear seat, and the fact that they tack on unnecessary options to the V6 pkg that make it a $5k pkg instead of what should be a $2500-3000 pkg. The G was excluded because of the horror stories about fuel economy and the harsh shifting 7 speed auto that plague the G37 forums. So it was down the the two TLs.
I did not have time to wait for the mmc since i work and need a car, so I bought the SHAWD Tech first.... Honestly at this point I was suffering from "new car" over-exposure and just really really wanted a new luxury car after weeks of test drives, I overspent. Fortunately or unfortunately for me, some lady t-bones my SHAWD and totals it about 1/2 way into its first year... I got most, if not all my $ back after months of dealing with both insurance companies, and really just NEEDED another car, thought I still wasn't settling for the VCM V6 accord, so I got the Base TL Tech. (2012's still weren't out yet)
Though now I think i still may have overspent and am starting to find that the TL doesn't really fit my lifestyle (see a few threads below), so I will be looking to sell it and maybe get a cheaper car (possibly/probably non-luxury) so I can save up some $ for other things in life.
ooh and the other reason is that my significant other already drives an A5 and it would be a bit redundant to have 2 A5's lying around. They're also not really similarly priced, as acura's dealers were extremely willing to hack off the price (got both my TL's for significantly below invoice), but the audi (and lexus) dealers wouldn't budge.
Last edited by jasonwdp10; 07-14-2011 at 10:56 PM.
#106
well my budget initially was $33k post tax, and was looking at fully loaded accords, though I HATED VCM on the V6's, and maybe an entry level luxury car.
I then realized that $33k, for the premium class wouldn't buy jack. I then moved the limit to sub-$40k post tax. With that, you can almost buy any decently equipped entry level luxury car. The top cars on my list were the TSX, TL, TL SHAWD ($1k over), G37 sedan, IS250. Other cars I somewhat considered: I didn't like the A4, the A5 V6 fully loaded was about $12k over my budget (same for MB C350, didn't like the 300), even the A5 2.0T was $6k or so over, the lexus dealers wouldn't budge on the price for an IS350 and that was floating close to $50k. In the end, It was down to the TSX V6, TL Base, TL SHAWD, Infiniti G37.
The TSX V6 was excluded due to lack of keyless entry, tighter rear seat, and the fact that they tack on unnecessary options to the V6 pkg that make it a $5k pkg instead of what should be a $2500-3000 pkg. The G was excluded because of the horror stories about fuel economy and the harsh shifting 7 speed auto that plague the G37 forums. So it was down the the two TLs.
I did not have time to wait for the mmc since i work and need a car, so I bought the SHAWD Tech first.... Honestly at this point I was suffering from "new car" over-exposure and just really really wanted a new luxury car after weeks of test drives, I overspent. Fortunately or unfortunately for me, some lady t-bones my SHAWD and totals it about 1/2 way into its first year... I got most, if not all my $ back after months of dealing with both insurance companies, and really just NEEDED another car, thought I still wasn't settling for the VCM V6 accord, so I got the Base TL Tech. (2012's still weren't out yet)
Though now I think i still may have overspent and am starting to find that the TL doesn't really fit my lifestyle (see a few threads below), so I will be looking to sell it and maybe get a cheaper car (possibly/probably non-luxury) so I can save up some $ for other things in life.
ooh and the other reason is that my significant other already drives an A5 and it would be a bit redundant to have 2 A5's lying around. They're also not really similarly priced, as acura's dealers were extremely willing to hack off the price (got both my TL's for significantly below invoice), but the audi (and lexus) dealers wouldn't budge.
I then realized that $33k, for the premium class wouldn't buy jack. I then moved the limit to sub-$40k post tax. With that, you can almost buy any decently equipped entry level luxury car. The top cars on my list were the TSX, TL, TL SHAWD ($1k over), G37 sedan, IS250. Other cars I somewhat considered: I didn't like the A4, the A5 V6 fully loaded was about $12k over my budget (same for MB C350, didn't like the 300), even the A5 2.0T was $6k or so over, the lexus dealers wouldn't budge on the price for an IS350 and that was floating close to $50k. In the end, It was down to the TSX V6, TL Base, TL SHAWD, Infiniti G37.
The TSX V6 was excluded due to lack of keyless entry, tighter rear seat, and the fact that they tack on unnecessary options to the V6 pkg that make it a $5k pkg instead of what should be a $2500-3000 pkg. The G was excluded because of the horror stories about fuel economy and the harsh shifting 7 speed auto that plague the G37 forums. So it was down the the two TLs.
I did not have time to wait for the mmc since i work and need a car, so I bought the SHAWD Tech first.... Honestly at this point I was suffering from "new car" over-exposure and just really really wanted a new luxury car after weeks of test drives, I overspent. Fortunately or unfortunately for me, some lady t-bones my SHAWD and totals it about 1/2 way into its first year... I got most, if not all my $ back after months of dealing with both insurance companies, and really just NEEDED another car, thought I still wasn't settling for the VCM V6 accord, so I got the Base TL Tech. (2012's still weren't out yet)
Though now I think i still may have overspent and am starting to find that the TL doesn't really fit my lifestyle (see a few threads below), so I will be looking to sell it and maybe get a cheaper car (possibly/probably non-luxury) so I can save up some $ for other things in life.
ooh and the other reason is that my significant other already drives an A5 and it would be a bit redundant to have 2 A5's lying around. They're also not really similarly priced, as acura's dealers were extremely willing to hack off the price (got both my TL's for significantly below invoice), but the audi (and lexus) dealers wouldn't budge.
Maybe I'm wrong but if you are in the mindset of spending 35K+ for a car you have options...wait a bit more, lease, buy slightly used, etc...were you without transportation when you got your TL??
In my case if I thought that the 535 or the S4 (the cars I cross shopped) were better cars worth the price difference I would have get that....maybe waiting few more months to squirrel away some extra dough...I usually do not stretch my car budget to the very last dollar and if I want something I'll wait...
In my aarea Audi dealers seems very willing to negotiate....one proposed me a decently equipped S4 for actually less money that the TL MSRP
Last edited by saturno_v; 07-14-2011 at 11:45 PM.
#107
Three Wheelin'
audis are just glorified VWs. they are not better than lexus or acura in my opinion. the best audi, the r8, can easily be destroyed on the track by lexus lf-a or nsx-r or hsv. The GT-R from nissan can take care of the 911 turbo or R8 V10 as well. I don't see the hype about audis at all.
#108
I don't know about your particular situation but the A5 prestige is 36.9K and the top of the line Premium Plus is 45K.
Maybe I'm wrong but if you are in the mindset of spending 35K+ for a car you have options...wait a bit more, lease, buy slightly used, etc...were you without transportation when you got your TL??
In my case if I thought that the 535 or the S4 (the cars I cross shopped) were better cars worth the price difference I would have get that....maybe waiting few more months to squirrel away some extra dough...I usually do not stretch my car budget to the very last dollar and if I want something I'll wait...
In my aarea Audi dealers seems very willing to negotiate....one proposed me a decently equipped S4 for actually less money that the TL MSRP
Maybe I'm wrong but if you are in the mindset of spending 35K+ for a car you have options...wait a bit more, lease, buy slightly used, etc...were you without transportation when you got your TL??
In my case if I thought that the 535 or the S4 (the cars I cross shopped) were better cars worth the price difference I would have get that....maybe waiting few more months to squirrel away some extra dough...I usually do not stretch my car budget to the very last dollar and if I want something I'll wait...
In my aarea Audi dealers seems very willing to negotiate....one proposed me a decently equipped S4 for actually less money that the TL MSRP
and yes, i had no car.
As for negotiating, i negotiated, or tried to, with lexus, infiniti, acura, audi. Only audi didn't budge at all, lexus was able to give me invoice or lower on the IS250 but nothing off a IS350, and acura/infiniti both were able to shave thousands off after a little negotiating.
Last edited by jasonwdp10; 07-15-2011 at 01:11 AM.
#109
The only engine listed is the 2.0 Turbo, the price for the Premium is $36,900, the Premium Plus is $40,600 and the Prestige is 45,600
http://models.audiusa.com/a5-coupe
Prices for the S5 Premium Plus is $53,650 and for the S5 Prestige is $59,550
http://models.audiusa.com/s5-coupe
Did you not have the option to get a cheap car waiting to squirrel away the A5 extra money??
#110
I got my prices infro from www.audiusa.com
The only engine listed is the 2.0 Turbo, the price for the Premium is $36,900, the Premium Plus is $40,600 and the Prestige is 45,600
http://models.audiusa.com/a5-coupe
Prices for the S5 Premium Plus is $53,650 and for the S5 Prestige is $59,550
http://models.audiusa.com/s5-coupe
Did you not have the option to get a cheap car waiting to squirrel away the A5 extra money??
The only engine listed is the 2.0 Turbo, the price for the Premium is $36,900, the Premium Plus is $40,600 and the Prestige is 45,600
http://models.audiusa.com/a5-coupe
Prices for the S5 Premium Plus is $53,650 and for the S5 Prestige is $59,550
http://models.audiusa.com/s5-coupe
Did you not have the option to get a cheap car waiting to squirrel away the A5 extra money??
#111
are you guys seriously comparing the a5 to the TL? the a5 is a nice car when properly equipped (premium plus or prestige) but it's down almost 100hp to the sh-awd and its' pretty much a two seater with a tiny back seat.. and audi is not really negotiable on the price; they're pretty set... 100 hp is not small difference
#112
Jason is buidling a case for himself to justify selling his TL, absorbing the loss, and getting another car. We all do that sort of stuff. Turn something into a monster so that we can distance ourselves from it. It's upgradeitis in a different form. The seeking of the perfect car. I bet if he laid out the dough for an Audi (keep in mind the Audi he drives is on his gf dough) he'd find reasons to complaign about it too imo. I'm much more forgiving of stuff and like that stuff better when I'm not making the payments. My money adds a tension inducing dynamic.
#113
Suzuka Master
Jason is buidling a case for himself to justify selling his TL, absorbing the loss, and getting another car. We all do that sort of stuff. Turn something into a monster so that we can distance ourselves from it. It's upgradeitis in a different form. The seeking of the perfect car. I bet if he laid out the dough for an Audi (keep in mind the Audi he drives is on his gf dough) he'd find reasons to complaign about it too imo. I'm much more forgiving of stuff and like that stuff better when I'm not making the payments. My money adds a tension inducing dynamic.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
Jason, this is not meant to be a personal attack.. just an observation
Last edited by Stew4HD; 07-15-2011 at 09:34 AM.
#114
I am not bashing Jason either. Just looking at this through eyes that have been on this planet 2x as long as his. Depersonalization or labeling something as wrong or evil allows a person to do what that person thinks is necessary without feeling accountability. First we have to build a case or find evidence to support the label so that we remain consistent.
The only problem is that building a justification case here is causing tension in other people.
I wonder why people who love Audi just don't go to Audi forums to bash the TL. People there would support the anti-TL perspective and the TL basher would be of service to by giving those folks additonal reasons to feel better about thier purchase.
Just my .02.
PS- If Jason's gf can afford an S5 at her age...hang on to her as long as she meets other important criteria too.
The only problem is that building a justification case here is causing tension in other people.
I wonder why people who love Audi just don't go to Audi forums to bash the TL. People there would support the anti-TL perspective and the TL basher would be of service to by giving those folks additonal reasons to feel better about thier purchase.
Just my .02.
PS- If Jason's gf can afford an S5 at her age...hang on to her as long as she meets other important criteria too.
Last edited by Glashub; 07-15-2011 at 10:01 AM.
#116
Thanks Stew. Hope you're ready for the heat blast they're predicting for next week.
#117
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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This just gets stranger & stranger - 2 BMW threads generating 204 posts & 4461 views on an Acura fan site. There has to be something beside BMW to talk about in Acura land.![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
Did they ever get the supercharger addon going?
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
Did they ever get the supercharger addon going?
#118
Do you feel better now?......seems like a lot of wasted effort for someone who is happy with what they have.
Why not compare the TL with a BMW 650 that goes out the door @ $110,000 & you might feel even better about your car being $70K cheaper. Of course the guy who bought a Chevy Malibu for $30,000 most likely thinks you wasted $10K on the TL.
Why not compare the TL with a BMW 650 that goes out the door @ $110,000 & you might feel even better about your car being $70K cheaper. Of course the guy who bought a Chevy Malibu for $30,000 most likely thinks you wasted $10K on the TL.
I would have to agree that I dont understand why owners of the 4G cant appreciate their car for what it is. Its an great vehicle and has many good qualities but why do many here always need to justify their purchase by comparing it to vehicles that it was never designed to compete against in the first place. I know its human nature to do things like that to make yourself feel better but you rarely see this on the MDX or RL, etc forums.
You missed it last year when someone here was justifying their purchase comparing their 4G to a Porsche Panamara.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
If the 4G is comparable to the 535 then so are many other premium mainstream models like the Buick lacrosse, etc etc, which IMHO I dont believe they are but to each their own. Acura themselves designed the RL specifically to compete with the 535, Audi 3.0T etc. The TL's direct competition has always been mainly the the 3 series, C-class, A4 etc etc. It seems that ever since the 4G was introduced the value proposition as fallen off against those models, so now we must compare it to higher end models that 4G was never really designed to compete against in order to justify the value again.
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
PS. I did see your thread over in the 3G section and congrats on your 335is purchase as im sure your going to love that ride. The grandson probably cant wait for BMW orientation day at the track.
#119
I answered that I'd take the BMW, but (and please don't take offense) this poll doesn't really make much sense. But yeah, if someone else were going to pay for the car, and the maintenance, and basically cover the delta betweent the two, then I'd like to experience ownership of a 535.
I've had eight Acuras and two Infinitis over the course of the last 18 years. I just love Acuras and ELS audio, SH-AWD, and now the 6 speed transmission have made it harder than ever for any other car company to capture my business.
The "status" of BMW and Mercedes have never mattered to me, and I live in Beverly Hills where both are so common that they cease to be noticeable.
I've had eight Acuras and two Infinitis over the course of the last 18 years. I just love Acuras and ELS audio, SH-AWD, and now the 6 speed transmission have made it harder than ever for any other car company to capture my business.
The "status" of BMW and Mercedes have never mattered to me, and I live in Beverly Hills where both are so common that they cease to be noticeable.
There are so many variables. What options are on the 535i? Would it have the sport package? I would take a 535i with sport package any day if someone else was footing the bill. The interior is upgraded from before and the navigation is now awesome.
I love my TL and everything about it, but I would always prefer to drive a BMW. I never buy a vehicle for the status, either.
With that said, I am content and have some peace of mind regarding reliability with the TL. Wish I had the SH-AWD, but I'm happy. I'm also happy that I saved at least $20,000 with the TL than buying a 535i with my preferred options.
#120
16GS FSprt,03Max,12 335is
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Manhattan Beach, Ca / Dallas, Tx
Age: 50
Posts: 976
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Hey there Bear-Av, Its sure nice to see a person of reasoning back here again.
I would have to agree that I dont understand why owners of the 4G cant appreciate their car for what it is. Its an great vehicle and has many good qualities but why do many here always need to justify their purchase by comparing it to vehicles that it was never designed to compete against in the first place. I know its human nature to do things like that to make yourself feel better but you rarely see this on the MDX or RL, etc forums.
You missed it last year when someone here was justifying their purchase comparing their 4G to a Porsche Panamara.![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
If the 4G is comparable to the 535 then so are many other premium mainstream models like the Buick lacrosse, etc etc, which IMHO I dont believe they are but to each their own. Acura themselves designed the RL specifically to compete with the 535, Audi 3.0T etc. The TL's direct competition has always been mainly the the 3 series, C-class, A4 etc etc. It seems that ever since the 4G was introduced the value proposition as fallen off against those models, so now we must compare it to higher end models that 4G was never really designed to compete against in order to justify the value again.![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
I would have to agree that I dont understand why owners of the 4G cant appreciate their car for what it is. Its an great vehicle and has many good qualities but why do many here always need to justify their purchase by comparing it to vehicles that it was never designed to compete against in the first place. I know its human nature to do things like that to make yourself feel better but you rarely see this on the MDX or RL, etc forums.
You missed it last year when someone here was justifying their purchase comparing their 4G to a Porsche Panamara.
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
If the 4G is comparable to the 535 then so are many other premium mainstream models like the Buick lacrosse, etc etc, which IMHO I dont believe they are but to each their own. Acura themselves designed the RL specifically to compete with the 535, Audi 3.0T etc. The TL's direct competition has always been mainly the the 3 series, C-class, A4 etc etc. It seems that ever since the 4G was introduced the value proposition as fallen off against those models, so now we must compare it to higher end models that 4G was never really designed to compete against in order to justify the value again.
![Shrug](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)