Edmunds Comparison: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL SH-AWD
11-30-2008, 10:40 AM
#121
I went to the L.A. Auto Show. The Acura display and Infiniti were side by side. Tons of people looking at the G37, only a few looking at the TL SH-AWD...Most people I saw leaving from there were shaking their heads in disbelief. I personally got in both cars, haven’t driven neither yet, but the looks of the G37 is way better hands down. Tomorrow I will got and drive the TL. It should be tons on the lot since I have not seen any on the road. I have only seen 3 09 TSX, 0 TL's, 0 RL's. I live in Raleigh NC and on any given day you see everything else. I have seen more F430's than TL's. Anyway I own a 05 TL w/ Navi now, but need to upgrade. I am comparing TL, G37 and maybe the Audi.
11-30-2008, 10:52 AM
#122
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The TL is very common here. I have seen as many a 5 3G's nose to tail in a row on Six Forks Road between Durant & 540, but have yet to see a 4G on the road.
11-30-2008, 12:02 PM
#124
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Not here in Dallas where I see a few 07-08 TL-S's everyday. For reference yesterday a budy of mine were riding around in his E500 wife has a an 06 TL and he spotted a new TL (rare rare site on the road in Dallas as well as new Maxima) and asked me what is that I said thats the new TL, his exact words were boy that thing is hideous.
11-30-2008, 12:04 PM
#125
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They are pretty common in North Raleigh. At the school where I teach martial arts there can be 4 or 5 type S cars in the parking lot, not at the same time, but over the course of any given night.
11-30-2008, 12:14 PM
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With tens of millions of dollars in advertising & hundreds of millions of dollars in sales riding on the results of these tests the whole marketing department would get fired if they were letting the cars start a performance test in the wrong gear.
This is a big deal to the manufactures as exampled by how many ringers were snuck into the tests over the years.
11-30-2008, 12:41 PM
#127
I have to think that the factory nannies would be more then helpful in telling the magazine drivers how to get the maximum performance out of the test cars.
With tens of millions of dollars in advertising & hundreds of millions of dollars in sales riding on the results of these tests the whole marketing department would get fired if they were letting the cars start a performance test in the wrong gear.
This is a big deal to the manufactures as exampled by how many ringers were snuck into the tests over the years.
With tens of millions of dollars in advertising & hundreds of millions of dollars in sales riding on the results of these tests the whole marketing department would get fired if they were letting the cars start a performance test in the wrong gear.
This is a big deal to the manufactures as exampled by how many ringers were snuck into the tests over the years.
That delay is not the AWD system, (what I originally thought it was myself) it's the fact that if you torque it, it does start in 2nd then switch back to 1st causing the launch delay. Because in my car there is no delay if you just take off without torquing. I doubt Acura wants to advertise this, nor tell any magazines, it will only take away from the performance aspect of the car and why would they want to advertise that.
11-30-2008, 01:25 PM
#128
Well Edmund's had no idea what was happening. They stated, "The SH-AWD system doesn't quite know what to do when the driver whacks the throttle from a stop. There seems to be a moment of thinking before progress begins in earnest."
That delay is not the AWD system, (what I originally thought it was myself) it's the fact that if you torque it, it does start in 2nd then switch back to 1st causing the launch delay. Because in my car there is no delay if you just take off without torquing. I doubt Acura wants to advertise this, nor tell any magazines, it will only take away from the performance aspect of the car and why would they want to advertise that.
That delay is not the AWD system, (what I originally thought it was myself) it's the fact that if you torque it, it does start in 2nd then switch back to 1st causing the launch delay. Because in my car there is no delay if you just take off without torquing. I doubt Acura wants to advertise this, nor tell any magazines, it will only take away from the performance aspect of the car and why would they want to advertise that.
It sounds like they are taking the foot off the brake then hitting the gas or does this happen when you do it. That is very odd if you hit the gas hard and it shifts to second first.
11-30-2008, 02:26 PM
#129
Burning Brakes
11-30-2008, 03:16 PM
#130
Honda Fanboy
I went to the L.A. Auto Show. The Acura display and Infiniti were side by side. Tons of people looking at the G37, only a few looking at the TL SH-AWD...Most people I saw leaving from there were shaking their heads in disbelief. I personally got in both cars, haven’t driven neither yet, but the looks of the G37 is way better hands down. Tomorrow I will got and drive the TL. It should be tons on the lot since I have not seen any on the road. I have only seen 3 09 TSX, 0 TL's, 0 RL's. I live in Raleigh NC and on any given day you see everything else. I have seen more F430's than TL's. Anyway I own a 05 TL w/ Navi now, but need to upgrade. I am comparing TL, G37 and maybe the Audi.
First of all, the G37 sedan had "tons of people" because there was only one. Infiniti's display was dominated by the G37 convertible so the space was really small thus packing the people in tighter. Acura had a beautiful display with a long and expansive layout. The cars were all spread out far apart and there was plenty of breathing room. There were three TL's on display. I'm sure if you combine the number of people around all three TL's versus the number of people around the one G37 Sedan, the TL would trump it.
I didn't see anyone shaking their head after looking at the TL. In fact, I was surprised by the amount of positive reaction the TL got. I actually heard a man saying he would definitely get this over the Infiniti. Which Infiniti he was talking about, well I will let that be up to you. One sit in a G37's interior and a back-to-back sit in a TL's interior and it's not hard to see why people would choose a TL over a G37 by just sitting in the two.
I've come to the conclusion that the TL is ugly to most car enthusiasts while it looks real good to most non-enthusiasts. My real-world experience seems to support this.
I haven't seen any G37 sedans on the road. I guess that means the car is a failure.
11-30-2008, 03:39 PM
#131
If you just take your foot off the brake and hit the gas there is no delay or clunk or anything, it simply takes off. You don't hear or feel anything weird at all and trust me I've done it plenty of times.. lol But if you torque it past 1300 rpms with your foot on the brake, then it will without question start in 2nd, and once you start rolling it shifts back to 1st and you feel and hear a clunk and this process could lead you to believe, as it did with me until I saw the gear #'s changing from 1 to 2 to 1, that it's the AWD system when it's not. So Edmund's noticed something but like me didn't catch on right away because who would think that would happen. In fact, I just sent Edmunds an e-mail about this so they can read about it here. Doubt they will look into it but you never know.
11-30-2008, 11:51 PM
#132
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I went to the L.A. Auto Show Tuesday evening and I saw the opposite of what you described.
First of all, the G37 sedan had "tons of people" because there was only one. Infiniti's display was dominated by the G37 convertible so the space was really small thus packing the people in tighter. Acura had a beautiful display with a long and expansive layout. The cars were all spread out far apart and there was plenty of breathing room. There were three TL's on display. I'm sure if you combine the number of people around all three TL's versus the number of people around the one G37 Sedan, the TL would trump it.
I didn't see anyone shaking their head after looking at the TL. In fact, I was surprised by the amount of positive reaction the TL got. I actually heard a man saying he would definitely get this over the Infiniti. Which Infiniti he was talking about, well I will let that be up to you. One sit in a G37's interior and a back-to-back sit in a TL's interior and it's not hard to see why people would choose a TL over a G37 by just sitting in the two.
I've come to the conclusion that the TL is ugly to most car enthusiasts while it looks real good to most non-enthusiasts. My real-world experience seems to support this.
I haven't seen any G37 sedans on the road. I guess that means the car is a failure.
First of all, the G37 sedan had "tons of people" because there was only one. Infiniti's display was dominated by the G37 convertible so the space was really small thus packing the people in tighter. Acura had a beautiful display with a long and expansive layout. The cars were all spread out far apart and there was plenty of breathing room. There were three TL's on display. I'm sure if you combine the number of people around all three TL's versus the number of people around the one G37 Sedan, the TL would trump it.
I didn't see anyone shaking their head after looking at the TL. In fact, I was surprised by the amount of positive reaction the TL got. I actually heard a man saying he would definitely get this over the Infiniti. Which Infiniti he was talking about, well I will let that be up to you. One sit in a G37's interior and a back-to-back sit in a TL's interior and it's not hard to see why people would choose a TL over a G37 by just sitting in the two.
I've come to the conclusion that the TL is ugly to most car enthusiasts while it looks real good to most non-enthusiasts. My real-world experience seems to support this.
I haven't seen any G37 sedans on the road. I guess that means the car is a failure.
12-01-2008, 03:02 AM
#133
If you just take your foot off the brake and hit the gas there is no delay or clunk or anything, it simply takes off. You don't hear or feel anything weird at all and trust me I've done it plenty of times.. lol But if you torque it past 1300 rpms with your foot on the brake, then it will without question start in 2nd, and once you start rolling it shifts back to 1st and you feel and hear a clunk and this process could lead you to believe, as it did with me until I saw the gear #'s changing from 1 to 2 to 1, that it's the AWD system when it's not. So Edmund's noticed something but like me didn't catch on right away because who would think that would happen. In fact, I just sent Edmunds an e-mail about this so they can read about it here. Doubt they will look into it but you never know.
Its sounds more like they may be talking about the delay from the DBW rather than torque braking but i am curious to their response to your email.
12-02-2008, 11:51 PM
#134
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Well it's the 2009 TL's first test and first loss but it was very close.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...mktid=cj260233
The G37 is nice but i wish you could put the TL's interior in it.....Boy i hate Nissan interiors.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...mktid=cj260233
The G37 is nice but i wish you could put the TL's interior in it.....Boy i hate Nissan interiors.
12-03-2008, 01:01 AM
#135
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November 2008 Sales:
Entry
1. BMW 3-Series: 6,645
2. Infiniti G: 4,457
3. Mercedes-Benz C-Class: 4,422
4. Lexuis ES: 4,116
5. Audi A4/5: 3,873
6. Acura TL: 3,160
7. Cadillac CTS: 2,902
8. Lexus IS: 2,749
9. Saab 9-3: 606
10. Volvo S60: 431
Mid
1. BMW 5-Series: 2,927
2. Mercedes-Benz E-Class: 2,264
3. Infiniti M: 1,186
4. Volvo S80: 844
5. Lexus GS: 721
6. Audi A6/S6: 717
7. Cadillac STS: 630
8. Acura RL: 234
9. Saab 9-5: 111
12-03-2008, 02:05 AM
#136
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Yea, the G is doing fine. But usually it doesn't sell as well as the TL. It's one of those rare months where the G (sedan only of course) outsold the TL. From what I've read in TOV, Infiniti has some very attractive lease and/or finance programs which really help sales. Also, if you look at the YTD sales, the TL is still leading slightly, like usual:
G: 41040
TL: 43159
And a lot of that is with the old 3G, which is arguably a disadvantage.
G: 41040
TL: 43159
And a lot of that is with the old 3G, which is arguably a disadvantage.
12-03-2008, 03:04 AM
#137
Honda Fanboy
Yea, the G is doing fine. But usually it doesn't sell as well as the TL. It's one of those rare months where the G (sedan only of course) outsold the TL. From what I've read in TOV, Infiniti has some very attractive lease and/or finance programs which really help sales. Also, if you look at the YTD sales, the TL is still leading slightly, like usual:
G: 41040
TL: 43159
And a lot of that is with the old 3G, which is arguably a disadvantage.
G: 41040
TL: 43159
And a lot of that is with the old 3G, which is arguably a disadvantage.
12-03-2008, 04:24 PM
#138
ShellZV6
Well my oppinion having all acura and honda cars i would never switch to an infinti or nissan i think the interior is hideous and ugly the tl interior is luxurious and nice and ive seen a new 09 tl with a color matches grill and even a mesh grill and i will say it puts the g37 to shame looks wise and in 2010 there making a special edition six speed manual sport tl-shawd lets wait rather then compare an automatic to a manual..ne i like my acuras and hondas hate nissan and infiniti.. I have a 07 accord v6 with exhaust and intake and i raced my friends g35 and smoked his doors in g35 and g37 are heavy ass cars and the infiniti is heavier by a couple more lbs then the new tl neway im just putting my two sense in..loyal acura/honda owner..lol
12-03-2008, 04:59 PM
#139
Suzuka Master
Yea, the G is doing fine. But usually it doesn't sell as well as the TL. It's one of those rare months where the G (sedan only of course) outsold the TL. From what I've read in TOV, Infiniti has some very attractive lease and/or finance programs which really help sales. Also, if you look at the YTD sales, the TL is still leading slightly, like usual:
G: 41040
TL: 43159
And a lot of that is with the old 3G, which is arguably a disadvantage.
G: 41040
TL: 43159
And a lot of that is with the old 3G, which is arguably a disadvantage.
G35 incentives are not very different than what Acura has on 08 TL. They have $4K dealer cash OR $1K dealer cash and 0.9%.
At the end of the day the TL and G are now headed for 2 much different markets, sure there is overlap, but the G is a Sporty car with luxury styling and amenities, the TL is a now more a luxury car with some sportiness. The 4G TL will polarize many it will definetly turn off those wanted more sportiness and the G37 by not keeping up with all the luxury amenities and gadgets will likely loose some people to the 4G crowd. My guess is the TL will stay ahead of the G since it is a more practical car for more people.
12-03-2008, 05:04 PM
#140
Suzuka Master
Well my oppinion having all acura and honda cars i would never switch to an infinti or nissan i think the interior is hideous and ugly the tl interior is luxurious and nice and ive seen a new 09 tl with a color matches grill and even a mesh grill and i will say it puts the g37 to shame looks wise and in 2010 there making a special edition six speed manual sport tl-shawd lets wait rather then compare an automatic to a manual..ne i like my acuras and hondas hate nissan and infiniti.. I have a 07 accord v6 with exhaust and intake and i raced my friends g35 and smoked his doors in g35 and g37 are heavy ass cars and the infiniti is heavier by a couple more lbs then the new tl neway im just putting my two sense in..loyal acura/honda owner..lol
WOW and I feel almost the opposite, the G37 interiro to me is very nice, sleek and elegant, whlie the 4G while nice the center stack looks cluttered and cheap, so this is truly beauty in the eyes of the beholder, I guess maybe your eyes are just bad
kidding...
12-03-2008, 05:12 PM
#142
12-03-2008, 05:16 PM
#143
Honda Fanboy
Acura is offering 0.9% for three years and 2.9% for five years on the discontinued 3rd generation TL. There is a big difference between the two.
12-03-2008, 06:17 PM
#144
Burning Brakes
12-03-2008, 06:27 PM
#145
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G35 incentives are not very different than what Acura has on 08 TL. They have $4K dealer cash OR $1K dealer cash and 0.9%.
At the end of the day the TL and G are now headed for 2 much different markets, sure there is overlap, but the G is a Sporty car with luxury styling and amenities, the TL is a now more a luxury car with some sportiness. The 4G TL will polarize many it will definetly turn off those wanted more sportiness and the G37 by not keeping up with all the luxury amenities and gadgets will likely loose some people to the 4G crowd. My guess is the TL will stay ahead of the G since it is a more practical car for more people.
At the end of the day the TL and G are now headed for 2 much different markets, sure there is overlap, but the G is a Sporty car with luxury styling and amenities, the TL is a now more a luxury car with some sportiness. The 4G TL will polarize many it will definetly turn off those wanted more sportiness and the G37 by not keeping up with all the luxury amenities and gadgets will likely loose some people to the 4G crowd. My guess is the TL will stay ahead of the G since it is a more practical car for more people.
12-03-2008, 06:44 PM
#146
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The G-37 is significantly quicker then the TL both to 60 & the 1/4 mile. Every magazine test has shown that & the only difference among the tests is by how much the G-37 wins.
When the G-37 coup came out was quick enough that the magazines were testing it against the BMW 335i to see how good it actually was & it did very very well.
In the test talked about in this thread the G-37 AWD kicked the TL's butt including by about 1.5MPH in the slalom which should be the SHAWD strong suit.
The new TL has to much weight & to little engine to be competitive in the "sport" category. IIRC its the only one which is sub 100MPH car in the quarter.
It does have a lot of nice creature comforts to fall back on which looks to be where Honda wants compete, less money for more comfort.
12-03-2008, 06:59 PM
#147
Honda Fanboy
The G-37 is significantly quicker then the TL both to 60 & the 1/4 mile. Every magazine test has shown that & the only difference among the tests is by how much the G-37 wins.
In the test talked about in this thread the G-37 AWD kicked the TL's butt including by about 1.5MPH in the slalom which should be the SHAWD strong suit.
In the test talked about in this thread the G-37 AWD kicked the TL's butt including by about 1.5MPH in the slalom which should be the SHAWD strong suit.
They did not test an AWD G37, they used a RWD car. Hence why some people, including myself, have dismissed this comparison because Edmunds refuses to compare apples to apples. A RWD car will always do better than an equivalent AWD car in the slalom. The strong suit of the TL SH-AWD is on a track, not diving in between cones.
12-03-2008, 08:09 PM
#148
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There has to be a thousand "I beat my buddies' X with my TL" in these threads which means absolutely nothing since you have a dog in this fight.
The G-37 is significantly quicker then the TL both to 60 & the 1/4 mile. Every magazine test has shown that & the only difference among the tests is by how much the G-37 wins.
The G-37 is significantly quicker then the TL both to 60 & the 1/4 mile. Every magazine test has shown that & the only difference among the tests is by how much the G-37 wins.
Regarding weight...the CL-S I had is only slightly lighter than my G37... specs are: 3510 (auto) 3446 (6MT) vs the G37S at 3642 lbs. Let me see now... 132lbs is kind of like having your girl friend along or not. Do you notice the difference? And the G has so much more low end torque that it actually feels lighter... not to mention about 50WHP more than my heavily modded CL-S.
Last edited by goredcar; 12-03-2008 at 08:11 PM.
12-03-2008, 11:48 PM
#149
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That being said the old 306HP G-35X with the 5AT is quicker to 60, quicker in the 1/4 mile with a 100mph trap speed, then the new SH-AWD so there is no reason to believe with more power a 7AT with 328HP the G-37X will suddenly get slow.
Car & Driver
G-35X5AT
0-60 . . . 5.4
0-100 . . 14.0
0-130 . . 27.2
As you are correct that it was an RWD vs the TL you have no idea if the SH-AWD will be faster on the track since the test has not been done yet.
Slower by all other measures yet faster on the track will be an interesting concept to prove.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 12-03-2008 at 11:51 PM.
12-04-2008, 12:06 AM
#150
Honda Fanboy
My bad on the AWD vs RWD thing. It was a RWD G-37 that kicked the SH-AWD TL's butt. Not matter what a butt kicking is a but kicking.
That being said the old 306HP G-35X with the 5AT is quicker to 60, quicker in the 1/4 mile with a 100mph trap speed, then the new SH-AWD so there is no reason to believe with more power a 7AT with 328HP the G-37X will suddenly get slow.
Car & Driver
G-35X5AT
0-60 . . . 5.4
0-100 . . 14.0
0-130 . . 27.2
As you are correct that it was an RWD vs the TL you have no idea if the SH-AWD will be faster on the track since the test has not been done yet.
Slower by all other measures yet faster on the track will be an interesting concept to prove.
That being said the old 306HP G-35X with the 5AT is quicker to 60, quicker in the 1/4 mile with a 100mph trap speed, then the new SH-AWD so there is no reason to believe with more power a 7AT with 328HP the G-37X will suddenly get slow.
Car & Driver
G-35X5AT
0-60 . . . 5.4
0-100 . . 14.0
0-130 . . 27.2
As you are correct that it was an RWD vs the TL you have no idea if the SH-AWD will be faster on the track since the test has not been done yet.
Slower by all other measures yet faster on the track will be an interesting concept to prove.
Being slower than the competition in a straight line and faster on a track is actually a very familiar and common formula in the Honda and Acura family.
We haven't seen a valid comparison between a G and TL on a track yet, but if this comparison (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=132226) gives any hint to what the results of that might be, then I have no doubt a TL SH-AWD will smoke a G37x on a track.
12-04-2008, 12:48 AM
#151
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We haven't seen a valid comparison between a G and TL on a track yet, but if this comparison (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=132226) gives any hint to what the results of that might be, then I have no doubt a TL SH-AWD will smoke a G37x on a track.
In the Honda sponsored event at a Honda developmental track the TL was a 2010 prototype run against competitors 2008 production cars all prepared by Honda employees.
The Black Helicopter crowd might say its very interesting they did not also run a '09 SH-AWD for the folks along with the prototype.
Maybe the whole idea here was to take peoples eyes off the less then stellar results that the '09 has racked up so far in testing.
Also, what might the other players have in store for 2010? Will they stay with the equivalent of their '08 product lines?
In the meantime when someone in a TL SH-AWD get dusted for the tenth time in a traffic light Grand Prix, He can always have the satisfaction of pulling up to say, "Oh yeah, but my car company's 2010 prototype is faster then your car at the track where it really counts".
12-04-2008, 12:48 AM
#152
Right, no one is claiming the TL to be faster so there really is no need to repeat it.
Being slower than the competition in a straight line and faster on a track is actually a very familiar and common formula in the Honda and Acura family.
We haven't seen a valid comparison between a G and TL on a track yet, but if this comparison (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=132226) gives any hint to what the results of that might be, then I have no doubt a TL SH-AWD will smoke a G37x on a track.
Being slower than the competition in a straight line and faster on a track is actually a very familiar and common formula in the Honda and Acura family.
We haven't seen a valid comparison between a G and TL on a track yet, but if this comparison (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=132226) gives any hint to what the results of that might be, then I have no doubt a TL SH-AWD will smoke a G37x on a track.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...mktid=cj260233
The Lab Results
We rapidly came to some conclusions. Here's how we ranked the cars after our testing.
1st Place: While the 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT might not have the horsepower to keep up on the straight with any of these other sport sedans, it works best by far in the corners and made up time over its competition in speed at the apex and at the exit. At nearly every corner, the SH-AWD was so astute and intelligent that you could literally slap the go pedal to the carpet and let the all-wheel drive sort out how best to put the power to good use. And yes, these optional 245/40ZR19 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires (the largest and stickiest of any of the tires in the entire group) really help, but it was in combination with the SH-AWD where the rubber really made a difference. This car carves the corners.
2nd Place: While the 2008 Audi S4 Quattro would seem to hold an advantage by the sheer fact that it hangs a 340-hp V8 over its front wheels and offers the traction of all-wheel drive, it is hampered by stubborn understeer on the entry to slow and moderate-speed corners. The steering remained light and precise throughout the course, as did the feel of the light-effort clutch and shifter. The S4 was the only car here other than the TL that was able to put the power to the pavement before the apex of the corners — a real advantage thanks to all-wheel drive. Poor weight distribution keeps it from getting close to the TL.
12-04-2008, 01:01 AM
#153
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We haven't seen a valid comparison between a G and TL on a track yet, but if this comparison (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=132226) gives any hint to what the results of that might be, then I have no doubt a TL SH-AWD will smoke a G37x on a track.
Road & Track has tested both the G35 and G35x on a track. The AWD G was found to be almost 1 second quicker around the track than RWD G. The G will also have a decided advantage in acceleration on the straights.
The 2G G35x has also done 0-60 MPH in 5.4 seconds.
Originally Posted by Road & Track
Well, we were wrong on one front, right on the other. Based on group average times on the dry autocross, the awd G35x proved itself faster, surprising us with its rear-biased manners and lapping nearly a second 0.9 sec. quicker than the rear-drive G35. In the wet the G35x fared even better, 1.3 sec. quicker than the rear-drive G35.
Last edited by Senneca01; 12-04-2008 at 01:06 AM.
12-04-2008, 01:47 AM
#154
Honda Fanboy
Whats a big deal about it? Current S4 is essentially 5 year old technology. It takes time for US launhc of European sedan. While US is home ground for Acura TL. Wait unitll next year new S4 comes and than after RS6 (Reported to blow away M3/M5 combined). Acura simply dont have money and technical ability to create sport luxury sedan in that class. (Pure sports cars doesnt not count as they are impractical and sits lower on the ground without much comfort).
Funny how Acura doesn't have the money or technology to create a sport luxury sedan yet Audi with all the money it has from VW just last year finally came out with a car that could outperform Acura's NSX from 1990. BRAVO!
12-04-2008, 01:52 AM
#155
Honda Fanboy
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Road & Track has tested both the G35 and G35x on a track. The AWD G was found to be almost 1 second quicker around the track than RWD G. The G will also have a decided advantage in acceleration on the straights.
The 2G G35x has also done 0-60 MPH in 5.4 seconds.
Road & Track has tested both the G35 and G35x on a track. The AWD G was found to be almost 1 second quicker around the track than RWD G. The G will also have a decided advantage in acceleration on the straights.
The 2G G35x has also done 0-60 MPH in 5.4 seconds.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 12-04-2008 at 01:55 AM.
12-04-2008, 01:56 AM
#156
You'll Never Walk Alone
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It doesn't really matter if the new S4 is faster than the TL SH-AWD on a track. I mean it's much more expensive anyways. They are simply not in the same class. IMO it's good to know the TL is somewhat competitive against it.
BEAR-AvHistory is right about that sponsored event. Let's wait for an actual comparison test before making any conclusion. However, I have confidence in the 4G TL, since the 3G TL-S has already been proven to be much faster than its competitors on Willow Springs, even though the competitors are much faster in a straight line.
Anyways, I'm sure someone will come by and say "who really cares about track times. How many people actually track their luxury sedans?" One thing for sure, racing on a track is certainly a much better idea than street racing - it's much safer and it's a smarter thing to do.
BEAR-AvHistory is right about that sponsored event. Let's wait for an actual comparison test before making any conclusion. However, I have confidence in the 4G TL, since the 3G TL-S has already been proven to be much faster than its competitors on Willow Springs, even though the competitors are much faster in a straight line.
Anyways, I'm sure someone will come by and say "who really cares about track times. How many people actually track their luxury sedans?" One thing for sure, racing on a track is certainly a much better idea than street racing - it's much safer and it's a smarter thing to do.
12-04-2008, 02:06 AM
#157
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Like VTEC Racer said, Honda cars are usually slower in a straight line, don't perform extremely well in handling tests, but they do well and return great track times. The NSX-R is a great example, 7:56 in Nurburgring, the same as a 996 911 GT3 and C5 Z06.
Another one is the FD2 Civic Type R. It's faster than R34 GTR, Lan Evo, NSX Type S Zero, Mazda FD RX7 on Suzuka, with only 225hp and 1270kg.
Also besides the TL-S I mentioned earlier, there are the Integra Type Rs, both DC2 and DC5, as well as the older CTR's.
Just go to youtube and search, you will see what I mean.
Another one is the FD2 Civic Type R. It's faster than R34 GTR, Lan Evo, NSX Type S Zero, Mazda FD RX7 on Suzuka, with only 225hp and 1270kg.
Also besides the TL-S I mentioned earlier, there are the Integra Type Rs, both DC2 and DC5, as well as the older CTR's.
Just go to youtube and search, you will see what I mean.
12-04-2008, 02:20 AM
#158
Honda Fanboy
Just a little dose of reality here.
In the Honda sponsored event at a Honda developmental track the TL was a 2010 prototype run against competitors 2008 production cars all prepared by Honda employees.
The Black Helicopter crowd might say its very interesting they did not also run a '09 SH-AWD for the folks along with the prototype.
Maybe the whole idea here was to take peoples eyes off the less then stellar results that the '09 has racked up so far in testing.
Also, what might the other players have in store for 2010? Will they stay with the equivalent of their '08 product lines?
In the meantime when someone in a TL SH-AWD get dusted for the tenth time in a traffic light Grand Prix, He can always have the satisfaction of pulling up to say, "Oh yeah, but my car company's 2010 prototype is faster then your car at the track where it really counts".
In the Honda sponsored event at a Honda developmental track the TL was a 2010 prototype run against competitors 2008 production cars all prepared by Honda employees.
The Black Helicopter crowd might say its very interesting they did not also run a '09 SH-AWD for the folks along with the prototype.
Maybe the whole idea here was to take peoples eyes off the less then stellar results that the '09 has racked up so far in testing.
Also, what might the other players have in store for 2010? Will they stay with the equivalent of their '08 product lines?
In the meantime when someone in a TL SH-AWD get dusted for the tenth time in a traffic light Grand Prix, He can always have the satisfaction of pulling up to say, "Oh yeah, but my car company's 2010 prototype is faster then your car at the track where it really counts".
This test was done before most of the journalists did their testing on the SH-AWD so I really don't see what test results Honda would be trying to take our eyes off of.
The other players don't seem to have much else in play for 2010 as all three of them are new for 2009.
Again, no one is claiming that the TL is the fastest car in a straight line. A Camaro goes fast in a straight line also, as we both already know. An S2000 is not that fast in a straight line either but it is the brilliance of the engineering and the prowess it displays on the track that makes it the car it is. If everyone cared about 0-60, then we would all be driving ZO6's.
12-04-2008, 08:26 AM
#159
Who is talking about the S4 here except for you? Acura's plan TL beat Audi's S model A4. Get over it.
Funny how Acura doesn't have the money or technology to create a sport luxury sedan yet Audi with all the money it has from VW just last year finally came out with a car that could outperform Acura's NSX from 1990. BRAVO!
Funny how Acura doesn't have the money or technology to create a sport luxury sedan yet Audi with all the money it has from VW just last year finally came out with a car that could outperform Acura's NSX from 1990. BRAVO!
have u seen this history. 0-60 in 4.8 sec from AWD in 1984.
http://www.supercars.net/cars/103.html
http://www.eurotuner.com/news/eurp_0...cts/index.html
S4 is directly positioned against BMW 335. RS4 is with M3. Acura simply dont have money and technolgy to provide anything beyond TL-SH-AWD. They shouldnt play in big league without going all the way.
12-04-2008, 11:50 AM
#160
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This test was done before most of the journalists did their testing on the SH-AWD so I really don't see what test results Honda would be trying to take our eyes off of.
The other players don't seem to have much else in play for 2010 as all three of them are new for 2009.
The other players don't seem to have much else in play for 2010 as all three of them are new for 2009.
Do you really believe that the Honda engineers did not know exactly how the SH-AWD would perform in the magazine tests before they ever released the car for sale? If they didn't, they should all be fired for not doing their jobs.
The Black Helicopter guys might come back & say that Honda was very careful never to give precise timings for the car just unlike BMW that puts it in the specs for the car.
As for whats new for 2010 from the others, if the 2009 cars will be exactly the same as the 2010's why did Honda test only the competitors 2008 models?
Don't you think they could, at a minimum, step up to the same size & compound tires as the SH-AWD ran instead of the smaller ones they all had?