AWD feature in 2010 TL>> very poor?
01-10-2010, 05:02 PM
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AWD feature in 2010 TL>> very poor?
Hello all-
I've been reading reviews/forum, doing test drive for my new purhcase...Drove handful of vehicles and leaned towards TL-SH_AWD. Although might not flashy or exotic looking as other vehicles, the reliablity of TL is unquestionable, but I have seend mixed reviews about AWD feature which is making me hesitant to pull the plug on this vehicle.
I drove twice, on dry pavement & in snow to see how AWD is performing. Sole purpose of getting AWD to have safe ride in snow (northeast region). I spoke to 2 owners personally and they said that AWD is zero to none in snowy condition, I drove G37x and obviously their forums and owner praising it's AWD over TL-sh, so I wanted to get TL2010 owner's review thru this forum regarding AWD feature? How's car perfroming in snow? skid or tailoff happening? or would it be bad tire on 2010 which is making this AWD so crappy.
Thkx to all of you for this great forum..hopefully If I make my purhcase (by end of this week) then i'll be part of this community & proud TL owner
I've been reading reviews/forum, doing test drive for my new purhcase...Drove handful of vehicles and leaned towards TL-SH_AWD. Although might not flashy or exotic looking as other vehicles, the reliablity of TL is unquestionable, but I have seend mixed reviews about AWD feature which is making me hesitant to pull the plug on this vehicle.
I drove twice, on dry pavement & in snow to see how AWD is performing. Sole purpose of getting AWD to have safe ride in snow (northeast region). I spoke to 2 owners personally and they said that AWD is zero to none in snowy condition, I drove G37x and obviously their forums and owner praising it's AWD over TL-sh, so I wanted to get TL2010 owner's review thru this forum regarding AWD feature? How's car perfroming in snow? skid or tailoff happening? or would it be bad tire on 2010 which is making this AWD so crappy.
Thkx to all of you for this great forum..hopefully If I make my purhcase (by end of this week) then i'll be part of this community & proud TL owner
01-10-2010, 05:15 PM
#2
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I baught a 2010 TL AWD back in Sept when they first got delivered to the dealers. I live in the chicago area and have had a lot of snow come down in the last couple days. Im guessing around 6-7 inches. In my opinion, I believe that the AWD performs very well in the snow. I had little to none tire spin in snow. I even drove it without traction control on and the car still felt solid and very controllable. Of course if you were to put snow tires then it would be even better. But the all season tires that come with the car arent that bad. Not the best but also not bad. I think I made a very good decision in buying this car, Im very happy with it and I think you would be too.
01-10-2010, 05:23 PM
#3
Suzuka Master
We just had a dusting here in ATL with lots of it compressed into slippery conditions and while nothing will grip ice the fact that all 4 wheels were driving power to the ice made the car very well mannered and controlled.
01-10-2010, 05:24 PM
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Its all about the tires and their grip.
Judge the SH-AWD vs. other AWD systems using equivalent tires.
Judge the SH-AWD vs. other AWD systems using equivalent tires.
01-10-2010, 06:20 PM
#5
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I live in the Boston area and over the past month we've gotten hit pretty hard with snow. I think the 09TL AWD has performed very well. I specifically traded in my front wheel drive 07TL so that I could have AWD and it has been worth it for me. No more jerky over steer. Very stable on the on/off ramps and while cornering. Very stable on snow, sleet, icy, and rain slick roads.
If you need ultimate snow performance, then get snow tires put on for the winter.
But know for sure that you cannot violate certain laws of physics regardless of what type of tires, AWD, VSA, ABS, etc you have. Drive carefully in the snow no matter what gear you've got.
If you need ultimate snow performance, then get snow tires put on for the winter.
But know for sure that you cannot violate certain laws of physics regardless of what type of tires, AWD, VSA, ABS, etc you have. Drive carefully in the snow no matter what gear you've got.
01-10-2010, 06:43 PM
#6
even with the crappy MXM4 tires... my car was a saint in the snow 2 weeks ago.
We got about 24-26" of snow, and i was out driving in the middle of the storm. Car never had a single problem. I got stuck behind the salt/plow trucks, and i choose to pass them, because it was more fun driving through the snow piles
Audi's Quattro is pretty intense too..... definitely a monster in the snow
BMW X drive... is ok
4matic - blahhhh
Infiniti X drive = Pretty sweet on the G/M Sedans
Lexus AWD
IS250 AWD = Too light, too weak of an engine for AWD. 2.5L 200hp N/A? BOOOO
GS350 AWD = Pretty decent car
Just my opinion.
We got about 24-26" of snow, and i was out driving in the middle of the storm. Car never had a single problem. I got stuck behind the salt/plow trucks, and i choose to pass them, because it was more fun driving through the snow piles
Audi's Quattro is pretty intense too..... definitely a monster in the snow
BMW X drive... is ok
4matic - blahhhh
Infiniti X drive = Pretty sweet on the G/M Sedans
Lexus AWD
IS250 AWD = Too light, too weak of an engine for AWD. 2.5L 200hp N/A? BOOOO
GS350 AWD = Pretty decent car
Just my opinion.
01-10-2010, 06:55 PM
#7
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My car has been in two heavy snows, including the blizzard conditions my friend above spoke of.
We had 24" to 30" of snow here.
The SH-AWD did very well with the OEM tyres in very slippery, heavy going.
The advantage we have over other AWD systems is, of course, that the AWD system is specifically designed for the car to handle better in dry and rainy weather, equally well.
We had 24" to 30" of snow here.
The SH-AWD did very well with the OEM tyres in very slippery, heavy going.
The advantage we have over other AWD systems is, of course, that the AWD system is specifically designed for the car to handle better in dry and rainy weather, equally well.
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01-10-2010, 07:29 PM
#8
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
I specifically traded in my 1G TSX for the 4G TL SH-AWD (well, I actually had the IS250AWD for a few months, a disaster fiasco which I won't go into here) specifically for the AWD system, along with the slick 6 spd manual transmission.
Living in the Pacific Northwest, AWD is advantageous for rain/snow/slippery conditions.
So far in heavy rain, and taking the TL up to the snowy mountains, it has been excellent and sure footed (on all seasons). So much better than my 1G TSX.
I looked at Audi, Subaru, Infiniti, BMW, MB, etc... Audi and Subaru have excellent AWD systems; but when you factor in reliability, interior comfort/design, technology, and performance, the TL wins IMHO.
Infiniti's AWD is rear wheel biased (0:100 initially, then transfers power to the front as needed). IMHO, I much rather have FWD bias (TL is 90:10 initially) than RWD bias, which is prone to tail offs.
You may have initial slippage with SH-AWD, but the system will "adjust" itself. This is due to the 90:10 initial bias. If you ever get stuck in the snow, turn off VSA and you'll be on your way out.
You may have less initial slippage with Audi/Subaru due to their initial 40:60/50:50 and 50:50 split.
AWD systems vary widely; one can argue ad naseum which system is better. But you can't loose with Acura's SH-AWD
Living in the Pacific Northwest, AWD is advantageous for rain/snow/slippery conditions.
So far in heavy rain, and taking the TL up to the snowy mountains, it has been excellent and sure footed (on all seasons). So much better than my 1G TSX.
I looked at Audi, Subaru, Infiniti, BMW, MB, etc... Audi and Subaru have excellent AWD systems; but when you factor in reliability, interior comfort/design, technology, and performance, the TL wins IMHO.
Infiniti's AWD is rear wheel biased (0:100 initially, then transfers power to the front as needed). IMHO, I much rather have FWD bias (TL is 90:10 initially) than RWD bias, which is prone to tail offs.
You may have initial slippage with SH-AWD, but the system will "adjust" itself. This is due to the 90:10 initial bias. If you ever get stuck in the snow, turn off VSA and you'll be on your way out.
You may have less initial slippage with Audi/Subaru due to their initial 40:60/50:50 and 50:50 split.
AWD systems vary widely; one can argue ad naseum which system is better. But you can't loose with Acura's SH-AWD
01-10-2010, 07:34 PM
#9
The tires will make a big difference. Here in Colorado, we have a fair amount of snow and some pretty killer mountain roads. So far I've noticed the SH-AWD outperforms my old '06 TL with the same snow tires. The AWD capabilities are quite good and when they are coupled with proper tires for the conditions, you'll experience even better traction, performance & handling.
Before putting the snows on the new TL I had the 19" HPT installed and even with AWD, the tires just couldn't perform well at all in the snow & cold.
01-10-2010, 07:37 PM
#10
Infiniti's AWD system behaves very different than SH-AWD. While many of us may be pro Acura we will still give it to you straight as opposed to maybe the other forum(s) you have been getting your insight.
Certainly tires as well as how you drive and the extent of the conditions will be big factors in whether one system will be more beneficial than the other but as you can see the Infiniti system is much more RWD favored even amongst many of the other AWD sytems on the market. It even acts as a full RWD setup when driving steadily as you probably would be if you were driving in bad conditions and reacts to slippage by transfering power after it is detected. For this reason I have heard many stories, some personally, of spinning out on the highway and such.
SH may not be a true constant 4WD but at least it is FWD biased in base operation and that IMO is more favorable than a heavy rear bias for the snow and bad weather conditions.
The system will make the car 100% rear wheel drive when driving at a steady speed. When the driver uses the throttle to accelerate from a stop or constant speed, the AWD system can send up to 50% of torque to the front wheels. When the car's speed becomes steady again, the drivetrain will return torque to the rear wheels. The AWD system will also transfer torque to the front wheels if the system detects loss of traction. The process is made by the system in a matter of milliseconds. This technology was first used in the 1989 Nissan Skyline GT-R, and has since been used in subsequent Skylines, and other vehicles in Japan and overseas, including the Nissan Bluebird, and Nissan Stagea.
SH may not be a true constant 4WD but at least it is FWD biased in base operation and that IMO is more favorable than a heavy rear bias for the snow and bad weather conditions.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 01-10-2010 at 07:42 PM.
01-10-2010, 08:44 PM
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thanks all for your comments...agreed on tire discussion, its much more releastic than rather asking sales folk in dealership...btw...if any of you got chance to drive both fwd & awd..how heavy & stiff awd steering you think is as compare to fwd..both of my test drives were on awd so i cannot figure difference...I know usually awd steering systems are bit heavy than regular fwd's or rwd ( i have one 4x4 and it's steering is much stiffer than other fwd car I own)
on side note...does mayan bronze only come with umber interior (tat's only combo I found in NE region sofar...seems like very rare color)
on side note...does mayan bronze only come with umber interior (tat's only combo I found in NE region sofar...seems like very rare color)
01-10-2010, 09:43 PM
#13
I can't compare the current 4G FWD &AWD steering as I only considered the AWD as it it was the only model with 6MT. I can compare it to my '06 FWD TL 6MT.
It doesn't feel stiffer or heavier, but more precise & quicker than the '06 FWD. Also there's absolutely no torque steer in the AWD. That was something that was a bit annoying in the FWD TL, especially on wet or slick surfaces.
It doesn't feel stiffer or heavier, but more precise & quicker than the '06 FWD. Also there's absolutely no torque steer in the AWD. That was something that was a bit annoying in the FWD TL, especially on wet or slick surfaces.
01-10-2010, 10:02 PM
#14
Racer
If you want a car that is good in the snow, get the G37x. Its by far superior to the TL. We never get snow where I am at but we spend a lot of time in the snow belt for vacation and I can personally attest that the G37x is far SUPERIOR to the TL in the snow. Its a no brainer. Tested both and I am a TL owner bowing to the G37x.
01-11-2010, 05:43 AM
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I traded in a Audi Quat for my TL-AWD, and have 2 other 4matics at home, as well a dedicated 4wd. Where I live if you don't have a 4wd/awd with good tires you are not going to make it. The TL does just fine in the snow.
People who say it doesn't work in the snow or its dangerous etc.
should not be driving in the snow.
The tires are the biggest part of the equation...
People who say it doesn't work in the snow or its dangerous etc.
should not be driving in the snow.
The tires are the biggest part of the equation...
01-11-2010, 04:37 PM
#16
Racer
This isn't the right place to get unbiased answers about the TL's AWD system. My opinion is that it's not great for snow conditions; it's great for dry high-performance conditions. YMMV.
01-11-2010, 06:39 PM
#17
Well....just returned from test driving a new '09 G37x and a new '10 TL SH AWD. Since the dealerships are close together (and owned by the same dealer group), I was able to test drive them back-to-back on the exact same route.
The route had a stint in a neighborhood that had about 3" of snow on the road that was packed in some places, loose in others. There were a couple of places where I had to go on steep inclines with snow on them. Mostly low speed driving (40 MPH and under). Part of it was on the interstate (about 5 miles worth) which was clear. And, some of it had city roads with some right and left 90 degree turns.
On the snow covered streets, I couldn't tell the difference between the G and TL. Both did well.
Same for highway work.
The big difference was taking turns at speed, in which the TL SH AWD was easily more confident than the G37x.
Also noticed that the TL felt significantly more refined than the G. Something about the G's 7 speed auto that had it hesitating on take off and as it shifted. Not that it was bad. Just not nearly as good as the Acura 5 speed auto, which was very responsive.
Sound of both engines were sporty. Again, the TL's 3.7 sounded significantly more refined. Better materials in the TL's interior over the G's interior, too.
The downside, I can buy the G37 with premium and nav for about $34.5K, but it's an '09.
The '10 TL SH AWD TECH I can buy for about $38.5K.
That's a $4K difference.
Like the TL SH AWD more, and it's a model year newer. Like the G37 price more, but it's a model year older.
What to do?
The route had a stint in a neighborhood that had about 3" of snow on the road that was packed in some places, loose in others. There were a couple of places where I had to go on steep inclines with snow on them. Mostly low speed driving (40 MPH and under). Part of it was on the interstate (about 5 miles worth) which was clear. And, some of it had city roads with some right and left 90 degree turns.
On the snow covered streets, I couldn't tell the difference between the G and TL. Both did well.
Same for highway work.
The big difference was taking turns at speed, in which the TL SH AWD was easily more confident than the G37x.
Also noticed that the TL felt significantly more refined than the G. Something about the G's 7 speed auto that had it hesitating on take off and as it shifted. Not that it was bad. Just not nearly as good as the Acura 5 speed auto, which was very responsive.
Sound of both engines were sporty. Again, the TL's 3.7 sounded significantly more refined. Better materials in the TL's interior over the G's interior, too.
The downside, I can buy the G37 with premium and nav for about $34.5K, but it's an '09.
The '10 TL SH AWD TECH I can buy for about $38.5K.
That's a $4K difference.
Like the TL SH AWD more, and it's a model year newer. Like the G37 price more, but it's a model year older.
What to do?
01-11-2010, 07:40 PM
#19
Go with your heart unless $4k makes a huge difference to you. In the end you'll be getting into that thing every day and if you're not happy when you do that, it's going to be a daily regret.
01-11-2010, 08:44 PM
#20
Good to hear an unbiased review of the TL SH. It really is as capable a sports sedan as almost anything you can throw at it and does so with a mid level luxury vehicle feel and level of refinement. Maybe there is some exception with it's straightline acceleration in the 5AT model but for it's size and weight range, it's exceptional especially for it's price. You rarely see that with other luxury vehicles in it's price range.
I thank Graphicguy for his comment about the 5AT and another angle of perspective it brings. As much as everyone would like to see a 6AT or higher, more gears doesn't always mean it's necessarily better or as refined. That same concept goes for direct injection too. Acura may just be holding out as long as possible for financial reasons they also will produce this stuff when they finally refine it not just when it is available.
Now back on topic, the TL SH displays just about the same level of refinement, performance, comfort, size and space as most mid level luxury vehicles and as we know they run about $60k when equally equipped, more or less. I think $4k is a small price to pay more when considering this. Plus a 2010 is still considered new and an 09 is already a year old if not more.
As mentioned Acura as a whole is the leading luxury brand for expected resale. So while you may pay more for the TL it could very well end up being cheaper with a stronger return in the long run. You could always look for a leftover 09 and see how far they will go with the price of that but with the incentives on the 10' it probably won't be that much better.
The G is a great car even having said all that. If not for the TL most of us would probably have that. You really can't go wrong either way, trust your instincts.
I thank Graphicguy for his comment about the 5AT and another angle of perspective it brings. As much as everyone would like to see a 6AT or higher, more gears doesn't always mean it's necessarily better or as refined. That same concept goes for direct injection too. Acura may just be holding out as long as possible for financial reasons they also will produce this stuff when they finally refine it not just when it is available.
Now back on topic, the TL SH displays just about the same level of refinement, performance, comfort, size and space as most mid level luxury vehicles and as we know they run about $60k when equally equipped, more or less. I think $4k is a small price to pay more when considering this. Plus a 2010 is still considered new and an 09 is already a year old if not more.
As mentioned Acura as a whole is the leading luxury brand for expected resale. So while you may pay more for the TL it could very well end up being cheaper with a stronger return in the long run. You could always look for a leftover 09 and see how far they will go with the price of that but with the incentives on the 10' it probably won't be that much better.
The G is a great car even having said all that. If not for the TL most of us would probably have that. You really can't go wrong either way, trust your instincts.
01-11-2010, 09:14 PM
#21
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^ That is a very true statement. I don't have the AWD, it will give me something to look forward on my next lease if I stay with acura. If it weren't for the TL having more space for a soon to be addition to my family I would be in a G37X right now.
01-11-2010, 10:35 PM
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THANKS all for your comments-
ever since I started this thread, I start working on my deal....Tonight!!! I BOUGHT TL_AWD......(yayyyyy), I worked hard and got good deal, I have to give up my color choice though but over all I know, I got good deal and product, Tomorrow I'll take delivery & post my deal details...just so you know, my other choice was FX35 and G37x coupe.I had killer deal for FX35 with the exact specs/color I wanted but I picked Acura over Infiniti (reason why is already discussed by folks in this thread), G37 was 3rd choice but as one said, I'm saving 3k but getting a 09' model which was not a wise decision. Btw!!! the color I got is Black pearl w/ Umber interior (looks funky....I still have to see how it feels in sunlight...hopefully not too wierd looking).
Pictures to follow in few days.
ever since I started this thread, I start working on my deal....Tonight!!! I BOUGHT TL_AWD......(yayyyyy), I worked hard and got good deal, I have to give up my color choice though but over all I know, I got good deal and product, Tomorrow I'll take delivery & post my deal details...just so you know, my other choice was FX35 and G37x coupe.I had killer deal for FX35 with the exact specs/color I wanted but I picked Acura over Infiniti (reason why is already discussed by folks in this thread), G37 was 3rd choice but as one said, I'm saving 3k but getting a 09' model which was not a wise decision. Btw!!! the color I got is Black pearl w/ Umber interior (looks funky....I still have to see how it feels in sunlight...hopefully not too wierd looking).
Pictures to follow in few days.
01-11-2010, 10:54 PM
#23
Racer
Let's compare my seven-year-old Audi A4Q 3.0 Stick to my brand-spankin' new Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT...
- One has an infinitely adjustable moonroof. The Acura doesn't.
- One has soft-touch plastics everywhere. The Acura doesn't.
- One makes solid "thunk" noises when closing the doors or hood. Not the Acura.
- One has torque down low. The Acura doesn't (even though it has gobs more power, it has to reach weed-whacker RPMs to use it.)
- One has a flat trunk bottom and came with a cargo net. It wasn't the Acura.
- One has reticulating trunk hinges. The Acura has strategically-placed goosenecks!
- One has a virtually silent moonroof when open. The Acura's makes a lot of wind noise when open (in the only position provided, "full")
- One has a lumbar support that can be moved up, down, in or out. The TL's only goes in-or-out.
- One has a trunk that opens all the way when the remote button is pressed. The Acura seems to have a random-opening-generator for this.
- One has headlight washers. Not my N.A. Acura!
- One lets me do temperature in Celsius (which is very important to me - seriously.) Oddly, I'd have to get a Canadian Acura for that.
I'm not bashing my new Acura TL SH-AWD; it's a great near luxury car. If you want a fast AWD feature-packed six-cylinder six-speed-stick, there aren't that many choices, and the TL is the best value of them. It's fast, secure, almost as good at AWD as the Audi, and a lot more power and a lot more tech features for a lot less money than the same power would cost (i.e. S4), or more power for a bit more money than the A4 (2.0t) would cost. But this puppy ain't no Audi, BMW or Mercedes.
Can we please set the fan-boy-ism aside and admire this car for what it is - a great fast AWD sedan - without having pretensions of it being a luxury car?
01-11-2010, 11:51 PM
#24
Word for word what exactly is incorrect about this statement?
It's not a matter of fan-boy-ism it's more about common sense, fair logic and judgment. Refinement, and how I specifically used it does not translate to the TL being better or even equal. "Displays" is the key word making it a fairly vague statement. I mean you are really overcopensating for something I didn't directly say or imply and you call me a fanboy but clearly you have demonstrated whatever the opposite is. And to suggest your 7 year old A4 is somehow so much more of a luxury car than a TL will ever be I really think you need to put personal perception away. And I am pretending?
Sorry but refinement is not about only what you feel it should be and the same thing goes for what defines a luxury vehicle. As far as everything else like size, space, comfort and performance being comparable to a mid level is more than accurate.
TL SH displays just about the same level of refinement, performance, comfort, size and space as most mid level luxury vehicles and as we know they run about $60k when equally equipped, more or less.
Sorry but refinement is not about only what you feel it should be and the same thing goes for what defines a luxury vehicle. As far as everything else like size, space, comfort and performance being comparable to a mid level is more than accurate.
01-12-2010, 07:46 AM
#25
Techno, what you have listed is true but it depends on what your cirteria is on what's "luxury". For example the goose neck trunk hinges really doesn't bother me at all and I don't see how that can be defined as a luxury item. I am sure someone here can list just as many points that would give the check mark to the Acura side of things (e.g., interior space, etc.)
Your last bullet kind of demonstrates that. To be able to display the temperature in Celcius is a luxury item? I live in the US and have no need to know the temperature in Celcius. To me I see that as paying for something that I don't need.
Your last bullet kind of demonstrates that. To be able to display the temperature in Celcius is a luxury item? I live in the US and have no need to know the temperature in Celcius. To me I see that as paying for something that I don't need.
01-12-2010, 08:04 AM
#26
tobe...congrats. Personally, I love the BP with umber interior. If I get one, that's the color combo I'll be seeking.
Techno....I believe the TL, G, MB C class, BMW 3, Audi 4...all play in the same sandbox. While I've never owned a MB, or an Audi, I've certainly test driven them. And, I've owned 2-BMW 3 Series (a 325i and a 330i, unfortunately not the 335i, though). You can nitpick a little here, and a little there, one over the other. But, what one lacks over the other, is made up for in different areas/features. For example, the NAV in the TL and G can't even be touched by any of the other manufacturer's NAV systems. All are made with high quality materials, some better than others.
I also used to own (actually inherited) a current gen Caddy STS 4. That car doesn't even approach the above. Yeah, it's got some cool features (when they work). And, the motor is probably one of the best GM builds. But, simple things, like the way the parking brake sounds when engaging/disengaging it makes one cringe. Fit and finish doesn't come close to any of the above.
The BMW is nice, no doubt. Plain on the inside....woeful NAV. The drive? It's firm (just like all the rest). To get what I really want, a 335ix, loaded like the TL or G, you're adding $10K+ to the price of it. I'll even throw the Audi A6 into the mix with the A4 (drove both). They feel slow and cumbersome with their standard motors.
So, depends on what you want. If you want "celsious" readings or different trunk hinges, then the German cars are where you want to be. Personally, I think the "clunk" of door closings, sunroof, soft touch materials (where the TL really excels) are every bit as good, sometimes better, than it's German competition.
As you pointed out, to get the kind of performance from an A4 or 3 Series, that you get with a TL or G, you're climbing up the price ladder steeply and quickly.
As they say, one man's perception is his reality. Yours is different than mine.
As a side point, I also test drove a Hyundai Genesis V8 a couple of weeks ago. That's a much different drive than any of the above. Doesn't mean it's worse, just different. Would I give thumbs up to the Genesis over an Audi A6? Absolutely! Then again, the nameplate on the car don't mean as much to me. Some put "value" in having Audi or BMW on their cars. To me, if it's a good car, it's a good car, regardless of the nameplate. And, if you can save a substantial amount of cash to get the similar driving experience to those "lux" nameplates, all the better.
One thing I'll hand to Honda/Acura and Nissan/Infiniti, they build very good cars, in their respective niches, across the board. This usually doesn't show up until later in their life, but you soon realize the superb engineering and build quality that's put into all of their cars pretty quickly....this coming from a person who's also experienced the previous TL and current gen Accord.
Can't say the same for VW/Audi, BMW/Mini, Lexus/Toyota, GM. They all make some good ones. They all make some "duds", too.
This, of course, is just one man's perception.
Techno....I believe the TL, G, MB C class, BMW 3, Audi 4...all play in the same sandbox. While I've never owned a MB, or an Audi, I've certainly test driven them. And, I've owned 2-BMW 3 Series (a 325i and a 330i, unfortunately not the 335i, though). You can nitpick a little here, and a little there, one over the other. But, what one lacks over the other, is made up for in different areas/features. For example, the NAV in the TL and G can't even be touched by any of the other manufacturer's NAV systems. All are made with high quality materials, some better than others.
I also used to own (actually inherited) a current gen Caddy STS 4. That car doesn't even approach the above. Yeah, it's got some cool features (when they work). And, the motor is probably one of the best GM builds. But, simple things, like the way the parking brake sounds when engaging/disengaging it makes one cringe. Fit and finish doesn't come close to any of the above.
The BMW is nice, no doubt. Plain on the inside....woeful NAV. The drive? It's firm (just like all the rest). To get what I really want, a 335ix, loaded like the TL or G, you're adding $10K+ to the price of it. I'll even throw the Audi A6 into the mix with the A4 (drove both). They feel slow and cumbersome with their standard motors.
So, depends on what you want. If you want "celsious" readings or different trunk hinges, then the German cars are where you want to be. Personally, I think the "clunk" of door closings, sunroof, soft touch materials (where the TL really excels) are every bit as good, sometimes better, than it's German competition.
As you pointed out, to get the kind of performance from an A4 or 3 Series, that you get with a TL or G, you're climbing up the price ladder steeply and quickly.
As they say, one man's perception is his reality. Yours is different than mine.
As a side point, I also test drove a Hyundai Genesis V8 a couple of weeks ago. That's a much different drive than any of the above. Doesn't mean it's worse, just different. Would I give thumbs up to the Genesis over an Audi A6? Absolutely! Then again, the nameplate on the car don't mean as much to me. Some put "value" in having Audi or BMW on their cars. To me, if it's a good car, it's a good car, regardless of the nameplate. And, if you can save a substantial amount of cash to get the similar driving experience to those "lux" nameplates, all the better.
One thing I'll hand to Honda/Acura and Nissan/Infiniti, they build very good cars, in their respective niches, across the board. This usually doesn't show up until later in their life, but you soon realize the superb engineering and build quality that's put into all of their cars pretty quickly....this coming from a person who's also experienced the previous TL and current gen Accord.
Can't say the same for VW/Audi, BMW/Mini, Lexus/Toyota, GM. They all make some good ones. They all make some "duds", too.
This, of course, is just one man's perception.
01-12-2010, 06:50 PM
#27
Racer
Techno....I believe the TL, G, MB C class, BMW 3, Audi 4...all play in the same sandbox. <snip> You can nitpick a little here, and a little there, one over the other. But, what one lacks over the other, is made up for in different areas/features. <snip>So, depends on what you want. If you want "celsious" readings or different trunk hinges, then the German cars are where you want to be. Personally, I think the "clunk" of door closings, sunroof, soft touch materials (where the TL really excels) are every bit as good, sometimes better, than it's German competition.
As you pointed out, to get the kind of performance from an A4 or 3 Series, that you get with a TL or G, you're climbing up the price ladder steeply and quickly.
As you pointed out, to get the kind of performance from an A4 or 3 Series, that you get with a TL or G, you're climbing up the price ladder steeply and quickly.
- Yes, you pay more for a statistically-similar BMW/Audi/Mercedes. That's one of the definitions of "luxury" - expensive.
- But you do get some stuff that, IMHO, is not made up for in other areas. For example, that the sunroof pop-up in the Audi can be any position and it's very quiet regardless, or that the trunk has a huge flat floor, included cargo net and fold-down seats.
BTW, the TL's nav system annoys me quite a bit. I can't easily find the closest Costco because it puts them, bizarrely, in four different listings that must be expanded separately. It knows about the Issaquah one but doesn't know it has gasoline. It's pretty verbose at times, without a convenient mute button. But I'm not saying the others (Audi, BMW) are better - just that the TL one doesn't seem as much better to me as it does to you.
01-12-2010, 10:35 PM
#28
I will assume most of us don't expect it to have so many little finishing touches, after all it is comparably cheaper and they have to cut some corners somewhere but that doesn't mean it is not still good enough to be considered luxury in the first place. There are some cars that do a horrible job in those areas, charge more money and are still considered luxury. What might not be excellent does not make it poor, in reality it's still very good but sometimes where you are coming from and what you value individually can dilute that.
I chalk most of that stuff up as differences not really that one is more refined than the other or that one deserves the title of luxury while one doesn't. The TL has an very impressive list of stuff it does over comparable luxury cars, to me they are much more important than what IMO, and with all due respect, are a few nitpicky things.
Things like leading resale, crash test ratings, reliability and of course value are way more important, at least to me they are. And that is just the major stuff, the TL also has stuff like industry leading stereo and navi systems and the like. If a similar product is a more expensive one than I would expect more and a lot of "little" extra refinements but at the same time I am not going to sacrifice what I feel is more important to get that while spending more money and getting less return on the dollar. It's a no brainer and just doesn't make sense for what I think is highly insignificant.
In most luxury brands just the fact that you want the larger, more spacious and more comfortable car than what is offered at the entry level you are required to pay a heavy premium for what is in most cases just size. For the most part you get or can get exactly the same engine, tranny, features, content and level of refinement but have to pay around $10k more for it.
For that reason I place a lot of value in cars like the CTS, the Genesis and especially the TL SH, for what Acura represents as a brand, because they remove that hurdle while still allowing the vehicle to actually compete with the more expensive mid level cars in more ways than just size. They don't sacrifice performance and platform capabilities in doing so like some of the other larger, more spacious entry priced vehicles do, cars like the ES and LaCrosse. They also cost around $20k less compared to most equally equipped mid level luxury vehicles.
While I appreciate what might be some extra levels of refinement here and there in those other cars, I like the option of not having to pay for it and I have a hard time believing that there even is $20k worth of extra refinement in them. More like a little extra was put into it in attempt to justify the premium. In other words I don’t feel it’s worth it but that is only my opinion and others may feel differently and I respect that.
I chalk most of that stuff up as differences not really that one is more refined than the other or that one deserves the title of luxury while one doesn't. The TL has an very impressive list of stuff it does over comparable luxury cars, to me they are much more important than what IMO, and with all due respect, are a few nitpicky things.
Things like leading resale, crash test ratings, reliability and of course value are way more important, at least to me they are. And that is just the major stuff, the TL also has stuff like industry leading stereo and navi systems and the like. If a similar product is a more expensive one than I would expect more and a lot of "little" extra refinements but at the same time I am not going to sacrifice what I feel is more important to get that while spending more money and getting less return on the dollar. It's a no brainer and just doesn't make sense for what I think is highly insignificant.
In most luxury brands just the fact that you want the larger, more spacious and more comfortable car than what is offered at the entry level you are required to pay a heavy premium for what is in most cases just size. For the most part you get or can get exactly the same engine, tranny, features, content and level of refinement but have to pay around $10k more for it.
For that reason I place a lot of value in cars like the CTS, the Genesis and especially the TL SH, for what Acura represents as a brand, because they remove that hurdle while still allowing the vehicle to actually compete with the more expensive mid level cars in more ways than just size. They don't sacrifice performance and platform capabilities in doing so like some of the other larger, more spacious entry priced vehicles do, cars like the ES and LaCrosse. They also cost around $20k less compared to most equally equipped mid level luxury vehicles.
While I appreciate what might be some extra levels of refinement here and there in those other cars, I like the option of not having to pay for it and I have a hard time believing that there even is $20k worth of extra refinement in them. More like a little extra was put into it in attempt to justify the premium. In other words I don’t feel it’s worth it but that is only my opinion and others may feel differently and I respect that.
01-13-2010, 07:56 AM
#29
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Back to the original question of AWD and how it functions. I had a 3G 2005, and could hardly get out of my driveway some days with 4 inches of snow.
My 2010 6-Speed AWD has zero problems. I have also driven it with 6 inches on the road, and it has zero issues.
I NEVER felt like I could get stuck, hills or anywhere.
My mother has a Subaru Tribeca, and its a MONSTER. It drives through snow when the snow is above the hood.
If you were to put equally outfitted tires on the new TL, I think it would do the same.
I bought it however for driving fun on dry pavement, not screwing around in the snow. But the nice side effect is, I don't feel, aside from 4ft of snow in the road, that I would get stuck with my TL either. But if we had that much snow I WOULDN'T try and drive in it either
My 2010 6-Speed AWD has zero problems. I have also driven it with 6 inches on the road, and it has zero issues.
I NEVER felt like I could get stuck, hills or anywhere.
My mother has a Subaru Tribeca, and its a MONSTER. It drives through snow when the snow is above the hood.
If you were to put equally outfitted tires on the new TL, I think it would do the same.
I bought it however for driving fun on dry pavement, not screwing around in the snow. But the nice side effect is, I don't feel, aside from 4ft of snow in the road, that I would get stuck with my TL either. But if we had that much snow I WOULDN'T try and drive in it either
01-13-2010, 10:04 AM
#30
I think everybody has their own perceptions of what "luxury" is and means. No one is wrong in their perception. They're just different.
Personally, I've considered the MB C class to have a fair dollop of "cheapness" to it compared to cars like the G, TL, even the Genesis, which play in the same price range. I certainly don't see better build quality in the C.
Functionally, some of the features in the G or TL are just worlds better compared to the same features in a C class, or even a 3 Series (i.e. Nav).
Yeah, you might find something a little better here or there when comparing one to the other. But, overall I believe it's just the opposite......a Japanese lux mark gives up nothing, and mostly succeeds in surpassing what you'll find in the same price ranges with the German brands.
Now, that may not be true as you move up the price ladder to an E Class, a 7 Series, an A6 when compared to the likes of an RL, an M, or even an LS. But, I gotta say, after being in a Genesis, it does a really good imitation of an E class, a 5 or 7 Series, etc. It gives up nothing to the quality and build to those German marks. That's going to be heresy to the German faithful, I know.
Again, this is my own perception of what luxury, build and quality of materials really is. Everyone else has their own. It's no secret that Benz's quality has taken a huge hit in recent years. Audi, I really don't know, since I've never owned one (but have test driven plenty of A4s/6s). BMW? Had two of them. They are well screwed together, but not any better than a G or TL. Fact is, I find the quality of materials in the TL (less so the G) to exceed that of a 3 Series. Feature wise, dollar for dollar, the gap widens dramatically.
Look at a $40K 328i and compare the function and quality to that of the same $40K G or TL and it will become apparent....especially in the materials dept.
Personally, I've considered the MB C class to have a fair dollop of "cheapness" to it compared to cars like the G, TL, even the Genesis, which play in the same price range. I certainly don't see better build quality in the C.
Functionally, some of the features in the G or TL are just worlds better compared to the same features in a C class, or even a 3 Series (i.e. Nav).
Yeah, you might find something a little better here or there when comparing one to the other. But, overall I believe it's just the opposite......a Japanese lux mark gives up nothing, and mostly succeeds in surpassing what you'll find in the same price ranges with the German brands.
Now, that may not be true as you move up the price ladder to an E Class, a 7 Series, an A6 when compared to the likes of an RL, an M, or even an LS. But, I gotta say, after being in a Genesis, it does a really good imitation of an E class, a 5 or 7 Series, etc. It gives up nothing to the quality and build to those German marks. That's going to be heresy to the German faithful, I know.
Again, this is my own perception of what luxury, build and quality of materials really is. Everyone else has their own. It's no secret that Benz's quality has taken a huge hit in recent years. Audi, I really don't know, since I've never owned one (but have test driven plenty of A4s/6s). BMW? Had two of them. They are well screwed together, but not any better than a G or TL. Fact is, I find the quality of materials in the TL (less so the G) to exceed that of a 3 Series. Feature wise, dollar for dollar, the gap widens dramatically.
Look at a $40K 328i and compare the function and quality to that of the same $40K G or TL and it will become apparent....especially in the materials dept.
01-13-2010, 03:42 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
I think everybody has their own perceptions of what "luxury" is and means. No one is wrong in their perception. They're just different.
Personally, I've considered the MB C class to have a fair dollop of "cheapness" to it compared to cars like the G, TL, even the Genesis, which play in the same price range. I certainly don't see better build quality in the C.
Functionally, some of the features in the G or TL are just worlds better compared to the same features in a C class, or even a 3 Series (i.e. Nav).
Yeah, you might find something a little better here or there when comparing one to the other. But, overall I believe it's just the opposite......a Japanese lux mark gives up nothing, and mostly succeeds in surpassing what you'll find in the same price ranges with the German brands.
Now, that may not be true as you move up the price ladder to an E Class, a 7 Series, an A6 when compared to the likes of an RL, an M, or even an LS. But, I gotta say, after being in a Genesis, it does a really good imitation of an E class, a 5 or 7 Series, etc. It gives up nothing to the quality and build to those German marks. That's going to be heresy to the German faithful, I know.
Again, this is my own perception of what luxury, build and quality of materials really is. Everyone else has their own. It's no secret that Benz's quality has taken a huge hit in recent years. Audi, I really don't know, since I've never owned one (but have test driven plenty of A4s/6s). BMW? Had two of them. They are well screwed together, but not any better than a G or TL. Fact is, I find the quality of materials in the TL (less so the G) to exceed that of a 3 Series. Feature wise, dollar for dollar, the gap widens dramatically.
Look at a $40K 328i and compare the function and quality to that of the same $40K G or TL and it will become apparent....especially in the materials dept.
Personally, I've considered the MB C class to have a fair dollop of "cheapness" to it compared to cars like the G, TL, even the Genesis, which play in the same price range. I certainly don't see better build quality in the C.
Functionally, some of the features in the G or TL are just worlds better compared to the same features in a C class, or even a 3 Series (i.e. Nav).
Yeah, you might find something a little better here or there when comparing one to the other. But, overall I believe it's just the opposite......a Japanese lux mark gives up nothing, and mostly succeeds in surpassing what you'll find in the same price ranges with the German brands.
Now, that may not be true as you move up the price ladder to an E Class, a 7 Series, an A6 when compared to the likes of an RL, an M, or even an LS. But, I gotta say, after being in a Genesis, it does a really good imitation of an E class, a 5 or 7 Series, etc. It gives up nothing to the quality and build to those German marks. That's going to be heresy to the German faithful, I know.
Again, this is my own perception of what luxury, build and quality of materials really is. Everyone else has their own. It's no secret that Benz's quality has taken a huge hit in recent years. Audi, I really don't know, since I've never owned one (but have test driven plenty of A4s/6s). BMW? Had two of them. They are well screwed together, but not any better than a G or TL. Fact is, I find the quality of materials in the TL (less so the G) to exceed that of a 3 Series. Feature wise, dollar for dollar, the gap widens dramatically.
Look at a $40K 328i and compare the function and quality to that of the same $40K G or TL and it will become apparent....especially in the materials dept.
(Note: I'm not speaking without personal experience of Acuras. I've owned a '94 Legend, a '92 NSX, a '94 NSX, an '05 TL A-Spec, and still own an '08 TSX.)
01-13-2010, 04:41 PM
#32
As my sig says... 2010 AWD TL. This thing has been nothing short of a beast in the snow, however I have dedicated snows (Blizzak LM's) on the 19" HPT's, I am a very experienced snow driver having grown up and driven in it for 26 years. Even though my snows are on monsters (19's) this TL has not left me wanting for anything. It has very ably handled the snow and ice here, from dry powder to 8-12" deep to heavy and wet and slushy.
I know that there are a lot of people here who want to get into the whole "vs" thing, however the op is asking "I wanted to get TL2010 owner's review thru this forum regarding AWD feature? How's car perfroming in snow? skid or tailoff happening? or would it be bad tire on 2010 which is making this AWD so crappy." from those of us with AWD TL's, our experience so far with the handling in the snow. I for one have been very impressed, but then again I am running dedicated snows even though they are on 19's. The car is not "skidding" "tailoff" or "spinning" the wheels. It has been sure footed and I have yet to feel like I am not in control of the car and the elements being driven in.
To the OP, I am a FIRM believer in dedicated snows. A quick true story that happened just 3 weeks ago to illustrate the difference between having them and not having them....My neighbors have an 09 MDX and we have an 08 MDX. My wife was following them home after a particularly bad snow. She said that they were all over the place, tires spinning, fish tailing etc, and was surprised as ours was solid and not spinning etc. The difference being, ours has dedicated snows (also Blizzaks) on it and theirs had all seasons. When my wife got home she was asked by them how she could even stand driving it in the snow with how bad it handles. She was confused, and said, I noticed that you guys were having issues when I was following you home, but I don't have any issues with the snow at all. They rolled their eyes and said that it was the worst handling SUV that they have ever owned in the snow and that they were going to trade their MDX in because of how "shitty" it was handling in the snow. She told them that with the dedicated snows, she has had no issues at all and to take ours out for a spin in the 8-12 inches of heavy wet snow that was making them regret their purchase for a comparison. She told them to take it every where they had just been driving that was making them regret the purchase.
The exact words from them upon returning from driving ours was "Night and Day difference". They said that they felt safe and in control of our MDX with the snows on and in fact had not slid or spun the tires on the exact drive including up their driveway, that had caused them to curse their purchase. They could not believe that they were in the same vehicle only with snows on. They had been told that all-seasons were all that they would need because they had an "AWD"
... LOL Needless to say, they went and got snows for theirs and are back to enjoying their MDX.
Moral of the story is, if you are in an area that gets snow, you will not be disappointed with dedicated snows and for all but a few of you, you will not be disappointed. This goes for 4x4's and FWD's as well.
Jumping off the soap box now.
Oh and for the inevitable response of "having AWD and snows does not give you unlimited traction, or keep you out of the ditch etc" I think that we can all agree here that no one, including myself is saying that. You still have to drive responsibly and with common sense.
I know that there are a lot of people here who want to get into the whole "vs" thing, however the op is asking "I wanted to get TL2010 owner's review thru this forum regarding AWD feature? How's car perfroming in snow? skid or tailoff happening? or would it be bad tire on 2010 which is making this AWD so crappy." from those of us with AWD TL's, our experience so far with the handling in the snow. I for one have been very impressed, but then again I am running dedicated snows even though they are on 19's. The car is not "skidding" "tailoff" or "spinning" the wheels. It has been sure footed and I have yet to feel like I am not in control of the car and the elements being driven in.
To the OP, I am a FIRM believer in dedicated snows. A quick true story that happened just 3 weeks ago to illustrate the difference between having them and not having them....My neighbors have an 09 MDX and we have an 08 MDX. My wife was following them home after a particularly bad snow. She said that they were all over the place, tires spinning, fish tailing etc, and was surprised as ours was solid and not spinning etc. The difference being, ours has dedicated snows (also Blizzaks) on it and theirs had all seasons. When my wife got home she was asked by them how she could even stand driving it in the snow with how bad it handles. She was confused, and said, I noticed that you guys were having issues when I was following you home, but I don't have any issues with the snow at all. They rolled their eyes and said that it was the worst handling SUV that they have ever owned in the snow and that they were going to trade their MDX in because of how "shitty" it was handling in the snow. She told them that with the dedicated snows, she has had no issues at all and to take ours out for a spin in the 8-12 inches of heavy wet snow that was making them regret their purchase for a comparison. She told them to take it every where they had just been driving that was making them regret the purchase.
The exact words from them upon returning from driving ours was "Night and Day difference". They said that they felt safe and in control of our MDX with the snows on and in fact had not slid or spun the tires on the exact drive including up their driveway, that had caused them to curse their purchase. They could not believe that they were in the same vehicle only with snows on. They had been told that all-seasons were all that they would need because they had an "AWD"
... LOL Needless to say, they went and got snows for theirs and are back to enjoying their MDX.Moral of the story is, if you are in an area that gets snow, you will not be disappointed with dedicated snows and for all but a few of you, you will not be disappointed. This goes for 4x4's and FWD's as well.
Jumping off the soap box now.
Oh and for the inevitable response of "having AWD and snows does not give you unlimited traction, or keep you out of the ditch etc" I think that we can all agree here that no one, including myself is saying that. You still have to drive responsibly and with common sense.
01-13-2010, 05:32 PM
#33
Try closing the trunk on *even* a C-class and then do the same with a TL, you'll think the TL's trunk was made of tinfoil. Do not even attempt to do the same comparison test with an Audi, as they are still another step up from the Mercedes. Stop being delusional. The TL isn't even in the same league as the German makes. It's got a lot of good things going for it, the TL, but it's puzzling how some Acura owners can be so far removed from reality.
(Note: I'm not speaking without personal experience of Acuras. I've owned a '94 Legend, a '92 NSX, a '94 NSX, an '05 TL A-Spec, and still own an '08 TSX.)
(Note: I'm not speaking without personal experience of Acuras. I've owned a '94 Legend, a '92 NSX, a '94 NSX, an '05 TL A-Spec, and still own an '08 TSX.)
It's not like the TL or a comparable Acura is the same price or more when equally equipped and the extra material quality in those brands is not free and last I checked it's really not all that much better in comparison. Why does that make Acura or the TL a lesser vehicle? It excels in some areas the Germans don't and it goes way beyond just price or value.
I think it is delusional how some make it sound as if the TL is not a car or the German brands are somehow more than cars. They both have engines, transmissions, wheels, tires, etc. They are both classified as luxury vehicles. Different does not mean better. Is build material the only thing that determines what is better or what should be so called Tier 1? Is that the only thing to consider when buying a car? The answer to these questions is much closer to reality than what perception can create.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 01-13-2010 at 05:36 PM.
01-14-2010, 08:33 AM
#34
Try closing the trunk on *even* a C-class and then do the same with a TL, you'll think the TL's trunk was made of tinfoil. Do not even attempt to do the same comparison test with an Audi, as they are still another step up from the Mercedes. Stop being delusional. The TL isn't even in the same league as the German makes. It's got a lot of good things going for it, the TL, but it's puzzling how some Acura owners can be so far removed from reality.
(Note: I'm not speaking without personal experience of Acuras. I've owned a '94 Legend, a '92 NSX, a '94 NSX, an '05 TL A-Spec, and still own an '08 TSX.)
(Note: I'm not speaking without personal experience of Acuras. I've owned a '94 Legend, a '92 NSX, a '94 NSX, an '05 TL A-Spec, and still own an '08 TSX.)
01-14-2010, 08:50 AM
#35
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As my sig says... 2010 AWD TL. This thing has been nothing short of a beast in the snow, however I have dedicated snows (Blizzak LM's) on the 19" HPT's, I am a very experienced snow driver having grown up and driven in it for 26 years. Even though my snows are on monsters (19's) this TL has not left me wanting for anything. It has very ably handled the snow and ice here, from dry powder to 8-12" deep to heavy and wet and slushy.
I know that there are a lot of people here who want to get into the whole "vs" thing, however the op is asking "I wanted to get TL2010 owner's review thru this forum regarding AWD feature? How's car perfroming in snow? skid or tailoff happening? or would it be bad tire on 2010 which is making this AWD so crappy." from those of us with AWD TL's, our experience so far with the handling in the snow. I for one have been very impressed, but then again I am running dedicated snows even though they are on 19's. The car is not "skidding" "tailoff" or "spinning" the wheels. It has been sure footed and I have yet to feel like I am not in control of the car and the elements being driven in.
To the OP, I am a FIRM believer in dedicated snows. A quick true story that happened just 3 weeks ago to illustrate the difference between having them and not having them....My neighbors have an 09 MDX and we have an 08 MDX. My wife was following them home after a particularly bad snow. She said that they were all over the place, tires spinning, fish tailing etc, and was surprised as ours was solid and not spinning etc. The difference being, ours has dedicated snows (also Blizzaks) on it and theirs had all seasons. When my wife got home she was asked by them how she could even stand driving it in the snow with how bad it handles. She was confused, and said, I noticed that you guys were having issues when I was following you home, but I don't have any issues with the snow at all. They rolled their eyes and said that it was the worst handling SUV that they have ever owned in the snow and that they were going to trade their MDX in because of how "shitty" it was handling in the snow. She told them that with the dedicated snows, she has had no issues at all and to take ours out for a spin in the 8-12 inches of heavy wet snow that was making them regret their purchase for a comparison. She told them to take it every where they had just been driving that was making them regret the purchase.
The exact words from them upon returning from driving ours was "Night and Day difference". They said that they felt safe and in control of our MDX with the snows on and in fact had not slid or spun the tires on the exact drive including up their driveway, that had caused them to curse their purchase. They could not believe that they were in the same vehicle only with snows on. They had been told that all-seasons were all that they would need because they had an "AWD" ... LOL Needless to say, they went and got snows for theirs and are back to enjoying their MDX.
Moral of the story is, if you are in an area that gets snow, you will not be disappointed with dedicated snows and for all but a few of you, you will not be disappointed. This goes for 4x4's and FWD's as well.
Jumping off the soap box now.
Oh and for the inevitable response of "having AWD and snows does not give you unlimited traction, or keep you out of the ditch etc" I think that we can all agree here that no one, including myself is saying that. You still have to drive responsibly and with common sense.
I know that there are a lot of people here who want to get into the whole "vs" thing, however the op is asking "I wanted to get TL2010 owner's review thru this forum regarding AWD feature? How's car perfroming in snow? skid or tailoff happening? or would it be bad tire on 2010 which is making this AWD so crappy." from those of us with AWD TL's, our experience so far with the handling in the snow. I for one have been very impressed, but then again I am running dedicated snows even though they are on 19's. The car is not "skidding" "tailoff" or "spinning" the wheels. It has been sure footed and I have yet to feel like I am not in control of the car and the elements being driven in.
To the OP, I am a FIRM believer in dedicated snows. A quick true story that happened just 3 weeks ago to illustrate the difference between having them and not having them....My neighbors have an 09 MDX and we have an 08 MDX. My wife was following them home after a particularly bad snow. She said that they were all over the place, tires spinning, fish tailing etc, and was surprised as ours was solid and not spinning etc. The difference being, ours has dedicated snows (also Blizzaks) on it and theirs had all seasons. When my wife got home she was asked by them how she could even stand driving it in the snow with how bad it handles. She was confused, and said, I noticed that you guys were having issues when I was following you home, but I don't have any issues with the snow at all. They rolled their eyes and said that it was the worst handling SUV that they have ever owned in the snow and that they were going to trade their MDX in because of how "shitty" it was handling in the snow. She told them that with the dedicated snows, she has had no issues at all and to take ours out for a spin in the 8-12 inches of heavy wet snow that was making them regret their purchase for a comparison. She told them to take it every where they had just been driving that was making them regret the purchase.
The exact words from them upon returning from driving ours was "Night and Day difference". They said that they felt safe and in control of our MDX with the snows on and in fact had not slid or spun the tires on the exact drive including up their driveway, that had caused them to curse their purchase. They could not believe that they were in the same vehicle only with snows on. They had been told that all-seasons were all that they would need because they had an "AWD"
... LOL Needless to say, they went and got snows for theirs and are back to enjoying their MDX.Moral of the story is, if you are in an area that gets snow, you will not be disappointed with dedicated snows and for all but a few of you, you will not be disappointed. This goes for 4x4's and FWD's as well.
Jumping off the soap box now.
Oh and for the inevitable response of "having AWD and snows does not give you unlimited traction, or keep you out of the ditch etc" I think that we can all agree here that no one, including myself is saying that. You still have to drive responsibly and with common sense.
01-14-2010, 09:45 AM
#36
Safety Car
1) The Acura, you can adjust the sunroof to any position you want, it is more infinitely adjustable than Audi's which has a turn wheel for positions, while acura has a slide button that you slide to open or close but let go where you want it to stop.
2) The Acura does has soft materials everywhere. I had a 03 Audi A4 1.8t, and IMHO, our 09 Acura beats it by a long shot.
3) Our Acura closes solidly like my Audi did. At least it doesn't have parts falling off it like my Audi did.
4) The Audi had NO POWER, but I had the 1.8t and I put the GIAC chip to help, still weak. Not much TQ, not much highway power. The Acura barely on the throttle, can scare you vs the Audi.
5) Every Acura I have bought came with a Cargo Net. But the flat floors, true Audi does give you.
6) Agree on the trunk hinges.
7) All depends on the design of the car, but my Audi had wind noise when the sunroof was open, so no difference really.
8) Lumber, yep, but to what I can remember, it wasn't power on the Audi I think.
9) Hmm My Audi trunk never opened all the way, but I did have the lip spoiler.
10) Headlight washers, something else to break. You don't need them here.
11.
2) The Acura does has soft materials everywhere. I had a 03 Audi A4 1.8t, and IMHO, our 09 Acura beats it by a long shot.
3) Our Acura closes solidly like my Audi did. At least it doesn't have parts falling off it like my Audi did.
4) The Audi had NO POWER, but I had the 1.8t and I put the GIAC chip to help, still weak. Not much TQ, not much highway power. The Acura barely on the throttle, can scare you vs the Audi.
5) Every Acura I have bought came with a Cargo Net. But the flat floors, true Audi does give you.
6) Agree on the trunk hinges.
7) All depends on the design of the car, but my Audi had wind noise when the sunroof was open, so no difference really.
8) Lumber, yep, but to what I can remember, it wasn't power on the Audi I think.
9) Hmm My Audi trunk never opened all the way, but I did have the lip spoiler.
10) Headlight washers, something else to break. You don't need them here.
11.
Good grief! I could agree with the rest of your post, but this is so far off it calls everything into question.
Let's compare my seven-year-old Audi A4Q 3.0 Stick to my brand-spankin' new Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT...
I'm not bashing my new Acura TL SH-AWD; it's a great near luxury car. If you want a fast AWD feature-packed six-cylinder six-speed-stick, there aren't that many choices, and the TL is the best value of them. It's fast, secure, almost as good at AWD as the Audi, and a lot more power and a lot more tech features for a lot less money than the same power would cost (i.e. S4), or more power for a bit more money than the A4 (2.0t) would cost. But this puppy ain't no Audi, BMW or Mercedes.
Can we please set the fan-boy-ism aside and admire this car for what it is - a great fast AWD sedan - without having pretensions of it being a luxury car?
Let's compare my seven-year-old Audi A4Q 3.0 Stick to my brand-spankin' new Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT...
- One has an infinitely adjustable moonroof. The Acura doesn't.
- One has soft-touch plastics everywhere. The Acura doesn't.
- One makes solid "thunk" noises when closing the doors or hood. Not the Acura.
- One has torque down low. The Acura doesn't (even though it has gobs more power, it has to reach weed-whacker RPMs to use it.)
- One has a flat trunk bottom and came with a cargo net. It wasn't the Acura.
- One has reticulating trunk hinges. The Acura has strategically-placed goosenecks!
- One has a virtually silent moonroof when open. The Acura's makes a lot of wind noise when open (in the only position provided, "full")
- One has a lumbar support that can be moved up, down, in or out. The TL's only goes in-or-out.
- One has a trunk that opens all the way when the remote button is pressed. The Acura seems to have a random-opening-generator for this.
- One has headlight washers. Not my N.A. Acura!
- One lets me do temperature in Celsius (which is very important to me - seriously.) Oddly, I'd have to get a Canadian Acura for that.
I'm not bashing my new Acura TL SH-AWD; it's a great near luxury car. If you want a fast AWD feature-packed six-cylinder six-speed-stick, there aren't that many choices, and the TL is the best value of them. It's fast, secure, almost as good at AWD as the Audi, and a lot more power and a lot more tech features for a lot less money than the same power would cost (i.e. S4), or more power for a bit more money than the A4 (2.0t) would cost. But this puppy ain't no Audi, BMW or Mercedes.
Can we please set the fan-boy-ism aside and admire this car for what it is - a great fast AWD sedan - without having pretensions of it being a luxury car?
01-14-2010, 09:56 AM
#37
I always have two sets of rims for all of my cars. I have been doing this for the 26 years I have been driving.
On the TL I have the HPT 19's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" Diamonds for 3 season.
On the MDX I have the chrome sport 18's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" chrome look split spokes for 3 season.
Hope that this helps.
01-14-2010, 10:19 AM
#38
Drifting
I firmly believe in the two set system. When you start getting up to the 18-20" rims, it is very hard on the low profile tires to be taking them on and off 2x year. Not to mention the inevitable scuffs/scratches & dents from the tire monkeys who could care less about your investment.
I always have two sets of rims for all of my cars. I have been doing this for the 26 years I have been driving.
On the TL I have the HPT 19's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" Diamonds for 3 season.
On the MDX I have the chrome sport 18's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" chrome look split spokes for 3 season.
Hope that this helps.
I always have two sets of rims for all of my cars. I have been doing this for the 26 years I have been driving.
On the TL I have the HPT 19's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" Diamonds for 3 season.
On the MDX I have the chrome sport 18's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" chrome look split spokes for 3 season.
Hope that this helps.
01-14-2010, 11:05 AM
#39
I firmly believe in the two set system. When you start getting up to the 18-20" rims, it is very hard on the low profile tires to be taking them on and off 2x year. Not to mention the inevitable scuffs/scratches & dents from the tire monkeys who could care less about your investment.
I always have two sets of rims for all of my cars. I have been doing this for the 26 years I have been driving.
On the TL I have the HPT 19's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" Diamonds for 3 season.
On the MDX I have the chrome sport 18's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" chrome look split spokes for 3 season.
Hope that this helps.
I always have two sets of rims for all of my cars. I have been doing this for the 26 years I have been driving.
On the TL I have the HPT 19's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" Diamonds for 3 season.
On the MDX I have the chrome sport 18's w/Blizzaks for winter and the 19" chrome look split spokes for 3 season.
Hope that this helps.
I've been doing the same thing for about 20 years as well. It's nothing to make a quick change from summers to winters if the weather changes unexpectedly. I think I get a bit more use out of the tires as well.