AWD feature in 2010 TL>> very poor?
#81
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NO offense taken, just when I was done reading through the posts I forgot what the original topic was.. Thats what 10 years of getting stoned does to a person.. All I was tring to say is I deal with alot of car shoppers and I see alot of 3rd gen TL's pull in to look at the G37x , and when I ask then about the new TL most do not like the styling.. It just seems like people that like the 3g TL do not like the 4G tl, and those are the customers acura should have focused on.
#82
Drifting
NO offense taken, just when I was done reading through the posts I forgot what the original topic was.. Thats what 10 years of getting stoned does to a person.. All I was tring to say is I deal with alot of car shoppers and I see alot of 3rd gen TL's pull in to look at the G37x , and when I ask then about the new TL most do not like the styling.. It just seems like people that like the 3g TL do not like the 4G tl, and those are the customers acura should have focused on.
Now back on topic. I think the best benefit of the AWD in the Acura is that in the dry it's a beast! The ability to push torque to independent wheels makes this corner like a dream. I think many people don't give it the chance to even test drive it. But that's fine with me, I didn't get a 335 or Infiniti because the streets around here are littered with them... they're just not unique enough, with some careful modding you can fix the flaws and still have a unique fast ride.
#83
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With the ACURA's TL SH-AWD system how much power is front and back...
I nkow it can send power left to right in the back wheels but can 100% of the power be in the rear? I know the G37x is RWD based AWD system where most of the time its 100% RWD BUT can send up to 50% of the power to the front wheels..
I thought the TL'S AWD system was a FWD based AWD system so most of the power is put down to the front wheels.. Is this correct or can 100% power go to the back wheels?
I nkow it can send power left to right in the back wheels but can 100% of the power be in the rear? I know the G37x is RWD based AWD system where most of the time its 100% RWD BUT can send up to 50% of the power to the front wheels..
I thought the TL'S AWD system was a FWD based AWD system so most of the power is put down to the front wheels.. Is this correct or can 100% power go to the back wheels?
#84
Just to touch on the other subject, the TL simply had to go in a different direction. Acura is trying to reposition the models and move them up segment and this will take some time and make the models overlap, it also confuses the positioning and maybe even makes some models seem irrelevant but fortunately it advances the TSX and TL drastically whether someone cares for the style or not. The other thing is they needed a car to draw attention to the brand and further it's recognition and figured they could afford a few casualties with the TL, it's most popular model, in order to accomplish this. It serves a greater purpose.
The 4G is not the 3G and the closest thing Acura has to that now is the TSX V6 and I can honestly say that is far from a downgrade. While it may not be completely there yet, the 4G is trying to get a different type of consideration and broader consumer base, at least for those who appreciate the styling.
As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
Back to the topic, SH-AWD on the TL can send up to 70% of it's power to the rear and 100% of that to either rear wheel. Under it's base form it's 90/10 but varies all the way up to 30/70 variably and proactively just by how you drive and what your throttle input is. 70% rear power with active vectoring closely resembles RWD behaviors while still being an AWD and then at other times SH allows for a heavy FWD bias for increased power and gas efficiency like when you are coasting or driving very lightly with limited throttle or come completely off the gas as if going down a hill or when preparing to come to an upcoming stop. An amazing combination of all three drive trains.
The 4G is not the 3G and the closest thing Acura has to that now is the TSX V6 and I can honestly say that is far from a downgrade. While it may not be completely there yet, the 4G is trying to get a different type of consideration and broader consumer base, at least for those who appreciate the styling.
As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
Back to the topic, SH-AWD on the TL can send up to 70% of it's power to the rear and 100% of that to either rear wheel. Under it's base form it's 90/10 but varies all the way up to 30/70 variably and proactively just by how you drive and what your throttle input is. 70% rear power with active vectoring closely resembles RWD behaviors while still being an AWD and then at other times SH allows for a heavy FWD bias for increased power and gas efficiency like when you are coasting or driving very lightly with limited throttle or come completely off the gas as if going down a hill or when preparing to come to an upcoming stop. An amazing combination of all three drive trains.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 02-02-2010 at 02:19 PM.
#85
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Just to touch on the other subject, the TL simply had to go in a different direction. Acura is trying to reposition the models and move them up segment and this will take some time and make the models overlap, it also confuses the positioning and maybe even makes some models seem irrelevant but fortunately it advances the TSX and TL drastically whether someone cares for the style or not. The other thing is they needed a car to draw attention to the brand and further it's recognition and figured they could afford a few casualties with the TL, it's most popular model, in order to accomplish this. It serves a greater purpose.
The 4G is not the 3G and the closest thing Acura has to that now is the TSX V6 and I can honestly say that is far from a downgrade. While it may not be completely there yet, the 4G is trying to get a different type of consideration and broader consumer base, at least for those who appreciate the styling.
As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
Back to the topic, SH-AWD on the TL can send up to 70% of it's power to the rear and 100% of that to either rear wheel. Under it's base form it's 90/10 but varies all the way up to 30/70 variably and proactively just by how you drive and what your throttle input is. 70% rear power with active vectoring closely resembles RWD behaviors while still being an AWD and then at other times SH allows for a heavy FWD bias for increased power and gas efficiency like when you are coasting or driving very lightly with limited throttle or come completely off the gas as if going down a hill or when preparing to come to an upcoming stop. An amazing combination of all three drive trains.
The 4G is not the 3G and the closest thing Acura has to that now is the TSX V6 and I can honestly say that is far from a downgrade. While it may not be completely there yet, the 4G is trying to get a different type of consideration and broader consumer base, at least for those who appreciate the styling.
As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
Back to the topic, SH-AWD on the TL can send up to 70% of it's power to the rear and 100% of that to either rear wheel. Under it's base form it's 90/10 but varies all the way up to 30/70 variably and proactively just by how you drive and what your throttle input is. 70% rear power with active vectoring closely resembles RWD behaviors while still being an AWD and then at other times SH allows for a heavy FWD bias for increased power and gas efficiency like when you are coasting or driving very lightly with limited throttle or come completely off the gas as if going down a hill or when preparing to come to an upcoming stop. An amazing combination of all three drive trains.
I'm just back from a ski trip to Snowshoe this past week, drove home on Sunday through the mess in NC. Snow to slush to dry and back again. All day.
In the WV mountains (snow covered roads the whole way) the car was amazing. A billy goat. Even with the craptastic all seasons. I had to be careful to pay attention to my curves ahead and down shifting because watching the torque vectoring show was so mesmerizing.
![Rolling](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolling.gif)
On the highway from county to county the road conditions varied greatly. High speeds (50ish) on snow covered and normal speed on dryer roads didn't cause a single moment of consternation.
I can say for sure the SH.AWD does just what it is advertised to do.
#86
Just to touch on the other subject, the TL simply had to go in a different direction. Acura is trying to reposition the models and move them up segment and this will take some time and make the models overlap, it also confuses the positioning and maybe even makes some models seem irrelevant but fortunately it advances the TSX and TL drastically whether someone cares for the style or not. The other thing is they needed a car to draw attention to the brand and further it's recognition and figured they could afford a few casualties with the TL, it's most popular model, in order to accomplish this. It serves a greater purpose.
The 4G is not the 3G and the closest thing Acura has to that now is the TSX V6 and I can honestly say that is far from a downgrade. While it may not be completely there yet, the 4G is trying to get a different type of consideration and broader consumer base, at least for those who appreciate the styling.
As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
Back to the topic, SH-AWD on the TL can send up to 70% of it's power to the rear and 100% of that to either rear wheel. Under it's base form it's 90/10 but varies all the way up to 30/70 variably and proactively just by how you drive and what your throttle input is. 70% rear power with active vectoring closely resembles RWD behaviors while still being an AWD and then at other times SH allows for a heavy FWD bias for increased power and gas efficiency like when you are coasting or driving very lightly with limited throttle or come completely off the gas as if going down a hill or when preparing to come to an upcoming stop. An amazing combination of all three drive trains.
The 4G is not the 3G and the closest thing Acura has to that now is the TSX V6 and I can honestly say that is far from a downgrade. While it may not be completely there yet, the 4G is trying to get a different type of consideration and broader consumer base, at least for those who appreciate the styling.
As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
Back to the topic, SH-AWD on the TL can send up to 70% of it's power to the rear and 100% of that to either rear wheel. Under it's base form it's 90/10 but varies all the way up to 30/70 variably and proactively just by how you drive and what your throttle input is. 70% rear power with active vectoring closely resembles RWD behaviors while still being an AWD and then at other times SH allows for a heavy FWD bias for increased power and gas efficiency like when you are coasting or driving very lightly with limited throttle or come completely off the gas as if going down a hill or when preparing to come to an upcoming stop. An amazing combination of all three drive trains.
#87
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#88
Acura still outsold Audi by total, mostly buoyed by the MDX.
I think it is time for us to consider the TSX as a sub-A4/3/C/G competitor, and the TL as a sub-A6/5/E. They are not designed to be directly competitive but as all the 3G owners have lamented, the 4G TL is bigger and has moved away from the compact luxury sports sedan segment....like it or not. What previous 3G owners should really hope for is further refinement of the TSX to better match the previous 3G TL's makeup....maybe a TSX Type-S can make some happy, and the TL can continue morphing into a "smart" ie cheaper alternative to the A6/5/E.
I think it is time for us to consider the TSX as a sub-A4/3/C/G competitor, and the TL as a sub-A6/5/E. They are not designed to be directly competitive but as all the 3G owners have lamented, the 4G TL is bigger and has moved away from the compact luxury sports sedan segment....like it or not. What previous 3G owners should really hope for is further refinement of the TSX to better match the previous 3G TL's makeup....maybe a TSX Type-S can make some happy, and the TL can continue morphing into a "smart" ie cheaper alternative to the A6/5/E.
#89
I was at my dealership today and there was this guy by the name of Matt Targett or Hargett, sorry but he said his last name too fast and he seemed like a big honcho at Acura by the demeanors of their employees there and my salesperson brought him over to me since he "supposedly" was the expert of the new TL. We got into the whole styling issue and he told me pretty much the same thing to a tee as you stated above! You guys should get together!
#90
Back on topic, wasn't there a article in one of the car mag's several years ago that compared the AWD features of numerous SUV's on a snow course? My recollection is that the Acura with SHAWD bested all others, including an audi and subaru.
I also just learned that you generally have to spend something like $50K on a mercedes to get real leather seats. that's a little weird.
I also just learned that you generally have to spend something like $50K on a mercedes to get real leather seats. that's a little weird.
#91
Drifting
No, you were wrong... LOL
Oh, BTW, you don't get an auto-dim mirror on the A4 or A5, unless you go for the Prestige trim, which will push the price all the way to the mid to high 40's. How about that!? LOL!
#92
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As Pete added, it's more grown up, as in a little more up segment and it would lose some consumer base just for that reason alone, it doesn't matter what it looks like. It still outsells the G37 sedan so I don't think that so many are crossing over specifically to that and when you gain more than the average amount of market share, as they did with the 3G model, it's normal that an above average percentage would also leave the brand. Brands and models that have a more consistent consumer base are usually also those you don't sell as much in the first place.
January 2010 Entry-Level Sales
1. 3 - 5,418
2. C - 4,028
3. A4/5 - 3,814
4. G - 3,763
5. ES - 2,923
6. CTS - 2,565
7. IS - 2,203
8. TL - 1,986
9. MKZ - 1,340
10. 9-3 - 429
11. S60 - 6
The "G" outsold the TL buy about 33% last month, and if u venture to get you facts strait i will bet the G outsold the TL evey month since it had the body change.. The 3G TL used to pounce on the G..
#93
Correct, the G sedan has outsold the TL for Jan of 2010 but what I was going off of was not only the entire year of 2009 but also the entire time the 4G has been out compared to the G sedan, not just one month and you have to keep in mind the 2010 G model has just recently been released so they have been blowing out the left over 09's for the past month or so.
And those facts are straight plus a sedan shopper is a sedan shopper and a coupe a coupe, there is no way around that. If you want to argue that Acura is losing out because they have no coupe then I agree but to insist that the TL is down only because of the style and because individually you don't like it, is absurd. There are plenty of multiple 3G owners who are much happier with this car then the 3G or anything else for the money and that includes looks.
The 4G is not the 3G and the current G is not the G of old. We need to go off of what is not what was. The A4 is just as new a model as the 4G TL and considering all their variants they do no better and overall the G sedan is near the bottom of that bunch so the fact that some insist on picking on the TL sales and it's looks and don't consider the same for those other models only reveals a hidden agenda and proves that styling is highly subjective and just because something else looks better to one individual doesn't mean it's sales are in a place that proves otherwise either.
And those facts are straight plus a sedan shopper is a sedan shopper and a coupe a coupe, there is no way around that. If you want to argue that Acura is losing out because they have no coupe then I agree but to insist that the TL is down only because of the style and because individually you don't like it, is absurd. There are plenty of multiple 3G owners who are much happier with this car then the 3G or anything else for the money and that includes looks.
The 4G is not the 3G and the current G is not the G of old. We need to go off of what is not what was. The A4 is just as new a model as the 4G TL and considering all their variants they do no better and overall the G sedan is near the bottom of that bunch so the fact that some insist on picking on the TL sales and it's looks and don't consider the same for those other models only reveals a hidden agenda and proves that styling is highly subjective and just because something else looks better to one individual doesn't mean it's sales are in a place that proves otherwise either.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 02-04-2010 at 01:41 PM.
#95
Oh, and if you need more convincing, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yidka...layer_embedded
watch it to where the cars try to climb up a slope, SH-AWD is obviously superior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yidka...layer_embedded
watch it to where the cars try to climb up a slope, SH-AWD is obviously superior.
#96
Racer
Who and what are you trying to convince? This is an Acura Fan-Boy Forum; you'll mostly find believers here. Except a few of us who have had other high-end sedans, but we get shouted down anyhow. ![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There are many things that go into performance. SH-AWD seems the Bee's Knees in dry conditions once moving. Compared to Torsen-based Quattro, it's not so great in my personal experience in slippery conditions, especially from a stop or under sudden acceleration. Getting a bit of wheel spin with my TL 6MT (probably won't work with an emasculating automatic) is trivial; doing the same in an S4 is much much harder.
But if they test an S4, they'll show it with summers while the TL comes with M+S.
![Wink](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
There are many things that go into performance. SH-AWD seems the Bee's Knees in dry conditions once moving. Compared to Torsen-based Quattro, it's not so great in my personal experience in slippery conditions, especially from a stop or under sudden acceleration. Getting a bit of wheel spin with my TL 6MT (probably won't work with an emasculating automatic) is trivial; doing the same in an S4 is much much harder.
But if they test an S4, they'll show it with summers while the TL comes with M+S.
#97
There are many things that go into performance. SH-AWD seems the Bee's Knees in dry conditions once moving. Compared to Torsen-based Quattro, it's not so great in my personal experience in slippery conditions, especially from a stop or under sudden acceleration. Getting a bit of wheel spin with my TL 6MT (probably won't work with an emasculating automatic) is trivial; doing the same in an S4 is much much harder.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 02-10-2010 at 05:17 PM.
#98
There are many things that go into performance. SH-AWD seems the Bee's Knees in dry conditions once moving. Compared to Torsen-based Quattro, it's not so great in my personal experience in slippery conditions, especially from a stop or under sudden acceleration. Getting a bit of wheel spin with my TL 6MT (probably won't work with an emasculating automatic) is trivial; doing the same in an S4 is much much harder.
But if they test an S4, they'll show it with summers while the TL comes with M+S.
But if they test an S4, they'll show it with summers while the TL comes with M+S.
Some would say the auto is emasculating and some would say you need to learn how to launch your car properly
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#99
#100
I am trying to convince the OP that SH-AWD is superior by showing video that proves it and not just give opinions. Since the OP seems to be concerned about show traction the most, hence, the video.
#101
Oh, and if you need more convincing, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yidka...layer_embedded
watch it to where the cars try to climb up a slope, SH-AWD is obviously superior.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yidka...layer_embedded
watch it to where the cars try to climb up a slope, SH-AWD is obviously superior.
I had a BMW 330ix. No way I'd even attempt some of that which was in the Acura video.
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#102
Racer
In fairness, if Honda would just fix the software to keep the SH-AWD engaged at start always rather than allowing a full-open central differential (which is effectively what it's doing apparently when the graph shows 1/3 as much torque to the rear), all the disadvantages would probably vanish. But they haven't.
#103
SH can correct for it's one or two shortcomings if you are patient enough to wait a split second, where most other systems just can't do what SH does in the first place. Advantage, SH-AWD.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 02-11-2010 at 03:12 PM.
#104
No video or single test can establish such a thing. I can easily set up conditions that will show SH-AWD inferior to an Audi Torsen Quattro setup. This would consist of hard launches with manual tranny on slick-ish conditions, and of extremely wet conditions at high speed in ruts, risking hydroplaning. (My experience with both systems is that Torsen Quattro prevents it entirely, while SH-AWD allows, probably by being mostly FWD until slippage is detected, but recovers in a second or so and therefore is nearly as safe excepting driver panic.) And I can easily set up conditions showing SH-AWD is superior to Audi Torsen Quattro - cornering under acceleration comes to mind, as that seems like a big advantage of SH-AWD... again, as long as it's not too sudden. But a well-run slalom should therefore show SH-AWD better.
In fairness, if Honda would just fix the software to keep the SH-AWD engaged at start always rather than allowing a full-open central differential (which is effectively what it's doing apparently when the graph shows 1/3 as much torque to the rear), all the disadvantages would probably vanish. But they haven't.
In fairness, if Honda would just fix the software to keep the SH-AWD engaged at start always rather than allowing a full-open central differential (which is effectively what it's doing apparently when the graph shows 1/3 as much torque to the rear), all the disadvantages would probably vanish. But they haven't.
Remember the test Acura set up last year with the pre-production TL against the older 335 and the discontinued S4. Well if the S4 then was comparable by Honda's standard, then why isnt it at this event ?
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
Its all part of the marketing and no different when audi did their ski hill test years ago.
Since we are showing video's for the OP, here is one posted by "Belzebutt" over in car talk with the SH-AWD in a real life situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSGr-IzrP8k
As you can see it really struggles in a rather simple situation to get out of the snow.
As "technocat stated", High speed driving in low traction/slippery conditions maybe a fault with SH-AWD as quoted by a driver in a MDX at the Acura driving event a couple years ago.
How SH-AWD Doesn't Work (posted by Bill Howard @ Gearlog)
"All these technologies provide a bit more traction, cornering, and confidence. But there's a limit to how much you can tinker with physics. On the longest of the road courses, the Audi Quattro Q7 was pitted against the MDX. Audi does well on traction and hill climbing with its three-differential solution.
The MDX was great going from a standstill to a power-on left turn onto the course (imagine a left turn in snow against oncoming traffic), and was precise and maneuverable at country-road speeds. But then, coming off a turn and heading for a series of lane-change pylons, I carried too much speed for the combination of SH-AWD, stability control, and steering inputs. The MDX understeered into a waist-high snowbank, sending a shower of fluffy white powder everywhere. It took a backhoe (with tire chains) to pull us out. "
Acura's SH-AWD is a very good system and has many good points and also bad points, but for people to watch a video at an event setup by Honda conducting a test designed by Honda so that its vehicle wont fail, then claim its the ultimate AWD system is rather crazy.
#105
Everything has it's advantages and negatives, nothing better or worse overall just different. What an indivdual needs out of it and how much value they place in it's strong points and how they tolerate it's negatives will decide if it is better or worse for them.
Having said that, the video of the RL doesn't place anything as a competitor in the same type of situation for a comparison. We also don't know the type and condition of the tires. I don't care what you drive, it can be any SUV, you are still going to have some difficulty getting out of being plowed in with that amount of snow. This was even in my neck of the woods which I am all to familar with so if my word is not good for it than nothing will be.
You have what is several inches on one side and about a foot street side and not a very good job of clearing or shoveling if any and it still made it out. We don't know how soft or hard the snow is and whether is there is any ice or not, so to draw conclusions from one video and one instance with no comparison isn't any better, in fact it's worse.
The same thing goes for some dude losing control of an MDX. That does not mean anything either. He says he carried too much speed not that he took it at the same speed on all cars. That doesn't necessarily mean it is worse, that could have very well happened if it was better, inspiring too much confidence.
Although it may be an Acura sponsored event, it welcomed all to drive each car through each test. The playing field is level. It's not as if the Acura vehicles had snow tires and the others all seasons. The Acura vehicles still had to actually do better for there to be a point in the first place.
SH clearly demonstrates a very big advantage in certain situations and that test was probably there for that reason alone but it's also an excellent example of an actual real world comparison but I wouldn't say the best. No one is doubting for a second that there are other systems that could fair better in other situations but until we have those on video we see a lot of visual evidence of why most of us went in this direction for a car.
I for one would welcome anything that is a direct competition and preferably also a video, where another AWD fairs better in any amount of tests or situations because it's intersting and educational not because I can point fingures and say this is better or that is worse.
Having said that, the video of the RL doesn't place anything as a competitor in the same type of situation for a comparison. We also don't know the type and condition of the tires. I don't care what you drive, it can be any SUV, you are still going to have some difficulty getting out of being plowed in with that amount of snow. This was even in my neck of the woods which I am all to familar with so if my word is not good for it than nothing will be.
You have what is several inches on one side and about a foot street side and not a very good job of clearing or shoveling if any and it still made it out. We don't know how soft or hard the snow is and whether is there is any ice or not, so to draw conclusions from one video and one instance with no comparison isn't any better, in fact it's worse.
The same thing goes for some dude losing control of an MDX. That does not mean anything either. He says he carried too much speed not that he took it at the same speed on all cars. That doesn't necessarily mean it is worse, that could have very well happened if it was better, inspiring too much confidence.
Although it may be an Acura sponsored event, it welcomed all to drive each car through each test. The playing field is level. It's not as if the Acura vehicles had snow tires and the others all seasons. The Acura vehicles still had to actually do better for there to be a point in the first place.
SH clearly demonstrates a very big advantage in certain situations and that test was probably there for that reason alone but it's also an excellent example of an actual real world comparison but I wouldn't say the best. No one is doubting for a second that there are other systems that could fair better in other situations but until we have those on video we see a lot of visual evidence of why most of us went in this direction for a car.
I for one would welcome anything that is a direct competition and preferably also a video, where another AWD fairs better in any amount of tests or situations because it's intersting and educational not because I can point fingures and say this is better or that is worse.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 02-12-2010 at 02:53 AM.
#106
Can't overcome physics, no matter what the version of AWD, traction control, etc available to you.
Bottom line, the SH AWD is good, in dry and wintry conditions. Nothing will overcome every single obstacle......(well, maybe a Hummer). I'm betting if the guy in the above video had studded snow tires, there wouldn't be an issue. Plus, he/she doesn't look like they've ever driven in snow before. Can't make up for stupidity, either.
Bottom line, the SH AWD is good, in dry and wintry conditions. Nothing will overcome every single obstacle......(well, maybe a Hummer). I'm betting if the guy in the above video had studded snow tires, there wouldn't be an issue. Plus, he/she doesn't look like they've ever driven in snow before. Can't make up for stupidity, either.
#107
The video above tells nothing about sh-awd.
1st of all whoever's driving is using short bursts on the accelerator. I think lighter constant power would allow sh-awd to do what it's got to.
2nd You hear some one say, "oh my god it's ice"
3rd The front tire is rubbing the curb which stops the cars movement. This would happen if it was bone dry as well.
1st of all whoever's driving is using short bursts on the accelerator. I think lighter constant power would allow sh-awd to do what it's got to.
2nd You hear some one say, "oh my god it's ice"
3rd The front tire is rubbing the curb which stops the cars movement. This would happen if it was bone dry as well.
#108
Grandpa
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If I had to pick a single thing I do not like about the TL generally, it is that they couldn't produce the 6AT soon enough to put into it.
#109
The Sicilian
Put a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks on that car and it would be a whole different story. Are we sure that's a SH-AWD?
I put Blizzaks on my daughters 2003 Maxima SE and that thing becomes a beast in the snow. It is actually better/stable in the snow than my 4Runner.
My wife has Blizzaks on the new TL and there has not been an issue with the New England snow thus far.
I put Blizzaks on my daughters 2003 Maxima SE and that thing becomes a beast in the snow. It is actually better/stable in the snow than my 4Runner.
My wife has Blizzaks on the new TL and there has not been an issue with the New England snow thus far.
#110
Drifting
Put a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks on that car and it would be a whole different story. Are we sure that's a SH-AWD?
I put Blizzaks on my daughters 2003 Maxima SE and that thing becomes a beast in the snow. It is actually better/stable in the snow than my 4Runner.
My wife has Blizzaks on the new TL and there has not been an issue with the New England snow thus far.
I put Blizzaks on my daughters 2003 Maxima SE and that thing becomes a beast in the snow. It is actually better/stable in the snow than my 4Runner.
My wife has Blizzaks on the new TL and there has not been an issue with the New England snow thus far.
#111
So it seems that although Acura sponsored the event, the testing was arranged by a third party auto environmental testing company and facility. They didn't pick the tests or decide what tests were going to be used, they were already there. Sure maybe they knew how well they would do there before selecting that location but it's not as biased as some want to make it seem. Here is their website. http://www.aettesting.com/
Likewise, I don't think Acura brought the other cars in for testing but I must admit I could be wrong. Good chance they were volunteered and represented by their specific parties. I would have been nice to see more cars like the A6 or 5 series and the S4 with the active differential but I am sure Acura did not go completely out on their own to get these. Who is going to volunteer their brand new S4 or S5?
Not to mention they would have needed a tire swap as they don't come with all seasons in production so that may be another reason why it wasn't there. Before I speculate anymore, the bottom line is we don't know how these other vehicles were acquired or if their brands had to approve of their use or if they volunteered the cars themselves or if they were even there representing them. Lets not draw conclusions from nothing.
What we do know is that SH-AWD is damn good and superior enough in many ways that it sent all it's major competitors back to the drawing board and they have come up with nothing more than to copy it. What does that say all by itself? And not to give credit where's it's not due they didn't even engineer their own, it's third party.
Likewise, I don't think Acura brought the other cars in for testing but I must admit I could be wrong. Good chance they were volunteered and represented by their specific parties. I would have been nice to see more cars like the A6 or 5 series and the S4 with the active differential but I am sure Acura did not go completely out on their own to get these. Who is going to volunteer their brand new S4 or S5?
Not to mention they would have needed a tire swap as they don't come with all seasons in production so that may be another reason why it wasn't there. Before I speculate anymore, the bottom line is we don't know how these other vehicles were acquired or if their brands had to approve of their use or if they volunteered the cars themselves or if they were even there representing them. Lets not draw conclusions from nothing.
What we do know is that SH-AWD is damn good and superior enough in many ways that it sent all it's major competitors back to the drawing board and they have come up with nothing more than to copy it. What does that say all by itself? And not to give credit where's it's not due they didn't even engineer their own, it's third party.
#112
B A N N E D
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That youtube thing with the MDX and Q7 is BS.. NO AWD system would do that on pure ice... how easy they can run up there and throw down rocksalt before the MDX went.. Why didnt they have the camera contiously running the whole time and they try one after anouther nbot cut out and throw down some saly ir grit then let the MDX go... com'on look at it.. no way no wheel slip on pure ice!!
You actully belive the MDX made it up pure ice like that w/o and slippiga after the first 10 feet??
You actully belive the MDX made it up pure ice like that w/o and slippiga after the first 10 feet??
#113
This is a great video that shows the sh-awd in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yidka...layer_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yidka...layer_embedded
#114
That youtube thing with the MDX and Q7 is BS.. NO AWD system would do that on pure ice... how easy they can run up there and throw down rocksalt before the MDX went.. Why didnt they have the camera contiously running the whole time and they try one after anouther nbot cut out and throw down some saly ir grit then let the MDX go... com'on look at it.. no way no wheel slip on pure ice!!
You actully belive the MDX made it up pure ice like that w/o and slippiga after the first 10 feet??
You actully belive the MDX made it up pure ice like that w/o and slippiga after the first 10 feet??
#115
Instructor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lUoLGv7G6s
You see this works both ways. It doesn't matter what car you have in snow and ice if you have the wrong tires on for your situation.
You see this works both ways. It doesn't matter what car you have in snow and ice if you have the wrong tires on for your situation.
#116
^^^ LOL....Yes, summer tires on a NON-Quattro Audi is a pain in snow or ice. Hopefully this person will look at a Quattro for his next purchase.
The only reason I posted the other video above is because I have been in situations worse than that with my girlfriends Subaru (with OEM's) and it basically would walk right out of that situation. No one can really tell why the RL cant make it out but we can assume by looking at the wheels that they are probably OEM's and he was fighting to get to the dry sidewalk in order to get out. If it wasn't for that he probably would have been digging.
The only reason I posted the other video above is because I have been in situations worse than that with my girlfriends Subaru (with OEM's) and it basically would walk right out of that situation. No one can really tell why the RL cant make it out but we can assume by looking at the wheels that they are probably OEM's and he was fighting to get to the dry sidewalk in order to get out. If it wasn't for that he probably would have been digging.
#117
That youtube thing with the MDX and Q7 is BS.. NO AWD system would do that on pure ice... how easy they can run up there and throw down rocksalt before the MDX went.. Why didnt they have the camera contiously running the whole time and they try one after anouther nbot cut out and throw down some saly ir grit then let the MDX go... com'on look at it.. no way no wheel slip on pure ice!!
You actully belive the MDX made it up pure ice like that w/o and slippiga after the first 10 feet??
You actully belive the MDX made it up pure ice like that w/o and slippiga after the first 10 feet??
and FYI, for the event, these cars were also put to the test: 2010 Audi Q7, 2010 BMW 335xi, 2010 BMW X6 3.5 xDrive, 2010 Infiniti FX35, and 2010 Lexus RX350.
http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=879935
If SH-AWD is a load of BS, why is BMW copying it with their "torque vectoring system"? Why is Saab copying it with their XWD?
#118
Grandpa
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The car is smart enough to deliver the maximum percentage rearward, and of that maximum, 100% went to the right rear wheel.
The whole point of the demonstration was to show you that the SH-AWD car is going to be smart enough to get you up a hill in those conditions.
That is the whole point.
You only need to be able to get traction on one wheel to get up the hill.
This continues to be an SH-AWD exclusive advantage in the price range, and the same technology makes for significantly better handling vehicles in dry weather and high performance applications.
I don't know if you guys have noticed this, but the owners manual (that big Bible that we're not going to read) mentions how to change the tyre pressures for high speed, sanctioned driving events on closed circuits.
#119
Racer
Um, FYI, there was some slippage at first. If you knew how SH-AWD works, then you wouldn't be calling it BS. SH-AWD has the ability to transfer 100% of the torque to independent wheels. <snip>If SH-AWD is a load of BS, why is BMW copying it with their "torque vectoring system"? Why is Saab copying it with their XWD?
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
That "100% of torque" is just marketing-speak; it has no real meaning. To transfer 100% of the torque, the SH-AWD would have to decouple the non-gripping wheel entirely. That doesn't happen. And all the major systems are equally capable of (after a bit of slippage) doing the equivalent of locked diffs. Of them, only the Subaru Planetary Gear and the Audi Torsen Quattro systems (which are not all of the Suby or Audi systems) don't require the slippage first. SH-AWD is just as bad as the others in this respect.
The reason BWM is moving towards a similarly geared system to SH-AWD has nothing to do with ice or winter driving and everything to do with fast cornering on clean dry winding roads. Not every AWD enhancement improves every aspect of driving!
#120
Whatever man, it seems like you have a bone to pick with Acura's SH-AWD system. Why get a SH-AWD TL in the first place when you could have gotten one of the other cars with a "better" AWD system?
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)