TSX69

Comparison: 2010 Acura TL SH_AWD vs 2010 Audi s4

Growing up doesn't have to suck the fun out of driving. You don't have to sell your soul -- and your Mitsubishi Lancer Evo -- and buy a life-sucking, automatic-transmission, front-wheel-drive sled just because you landed a real job and produced offspring. These two luxury sedans appear grown up to the outside world, but when no one is looking, the cars can bring out your inner juvenile delinquent. You probably never thought of the Acura TL SH-AWD and the Audi S4 on the same day, much less in the same sentence. But this duo is remarkably similar in base price, power, and weight. And significantly, they both use torque-vectoring all-wheel-drive systems to ensure that they don't sacrifice one iota of the corner-carving thrills you've grown to love. Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together for the two cars that will change your perception of all-wheel-drive luxury sedans.

In a tit-for-tat comparison between two cars that share the same driveline philosophy, it quickly becomes obvious that the Acura and the Audi are significantly different only in the details. Despite riding on a wheelbase within an inch and a half of the Audi S4's, the Acura TL is about ten inches longer and two inches wider. In fact, its interior is sufficiently voluminous to push the TL into the next EPA size class. The S4's lower beltline and bigger windows give a better view out, though, effectively eliminating any difference in perceived interior size. It's only from the back seat where the size differential becomes pronounced, but the S4 still offers sufficient space for a young family. Although the Acura's trunk is also larger, its rear seats don't fold down.

Slam one of the TL's doors a little too hard, and you can't help but notice how tinny it sounds. Not so for the S4, which sounds and feels like the proverbial bank vault. The S4's attractive interior is up to Audi's typical high-quality standards, but the Acura's cabin is more striking, with a dashboard draped in symmetrical, sinewy curves trimmed with black-on-silver dot-matrix-patterned aluminum that provides a modern ambience without the risk of glare in sunny weather. The punctuation mark is a red metal start button, and although the shifter is located a bit too far toward the passenger side, its heavy weight and perfectly precise throws are among the best in the business. So, too, are the turn-signal stalks. But then there are the buttons. There are seventeen of them on the steering wheel alone, and perhaps another eight thousand on the dashboard. Despite being organized logically in clusters for climate control, stereo, and navigation functions, their sheer number means that it takes a good bit of time to become comfortable using them.

The S4, meanwhile, is intuitive from the get-go. The uncluttered dash and Multi Media Interface system are both easy to use, and the Audi's seats are just as comfortable and supportive as the Acura's (which is to say, very), but the German seat heaters are far more powerful. Unfortunately, Audi's base stereo isn't. For enjoying anything other than AM radio, you'll need to budget an additional $850 for the 505-watt Bang & Olufsen sound system.

The TL SH-AWD comes standard with a 440-watt premium surround system that is nothing short of phenomenal. You can't, however, get three-blink turn signals, rain-sensing wipers, or swiveling bixenon headlights in the Acura, all curious omissions at this price point. Acura also doesn't offer an equivalent of Audi's Drive Select, the S4's user-selectable chassis system that customizes steering boost, suspension damping, and throttle response. We're still not fans of Audi's particular setup, as it seems to never offer the right combination of modes. The steering vacillates between being overly boosted or artificially heavy, sometimes in the middle of a corner. And maddeningly, the system defaults to the auto setting at each restart. At least the S4's ride quality is superb in any setting, and its electronic adjustability allows it to combine a more supple ride than the TL's with far better body control, two typically contradictory assignments.

The Acura's steering is lightning quick, with an overall ratio nearly as fast as a Mitsubishi Evo's, and its thick rim communicates more feedback to the driver, especially at the limit, where the Audi's steering goes numb. If there's one place where the Acura could use driver-adjustability, it's in the throttle mapping. Several factors conspire to make the TL frustratingly difficult to drive smoothly around town: First, the computer seems to interpret one quarter of the accelerator pedal's travel as a request for full throttle. And it's slow to close the throttle as you back off the gas. Further complicating matters is a clutch pedal that engages high in its travel and over considerable distance, making it a challenge to locate a consistent engagement point. What's more, since the V-6 is so surprisingly responsive, you wind up leaving traffic lights like an amateur with way too many revs on the tach. Or worse, too few, resulting in an embarrassing stall.

The TL's willingness to rev (and stall) no doubt comes from the particulars of its V-6. Like most cars based on a front-wheel-drive design, the Acura's engine is installed transversely, and a narrow engine helps maximize both frontal crush space and interior room. To that end, Acura uses a 60-degree angle between cylinder banks. This layout is well-balanced as far as V-6s go and negates the need for balance shafts. Despite its size (a robust 3.7 liters of displacement), it revs instantaneously, and the only drawback to the low rotational inertia is slightly gritty power delivery. That's a nonissue in the TL, since any coarseness is overshadowed by magnificent intake music, especially as the valvetrain switches over to the high-lift cam profiles at the fun end of the tach. It pulls hard to its 6700-rpm redline, and the harder you drive the TL, the better this powertrain becomes.

You won't hear a single complaint from us about the Audi's driveline. Except that if "Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT" is a stupid name for a car, then "3.0T" is a stupid badge to put on a supercharged engine. Unless, of course, the device is called a Tupercharger in German. Which it's not. Mounted longitudinally, the 3.0-liter V-6's banks are splayed out at a 90-degree angle, and thanks to balance shafts and counterweights, it's as smooth as silk. It's also decidedly more high-tech than the Acura's engine, with four cams instead of two, direct injection, and of course, the silent tupercharger that you never hear but, oh, my word, do you ever feel. The power-to-weight ratios may be similar, but the S4 is a full league quicker and faster than the TL thanks to the additional torque across the entire rev range.

The Audi's extra thrust should have been a huge advantage at Pittsburgh's BeaveRun racetrack, which rewards straight-line speed with two long straightaways -- especially since, on paper, the Acura carries no advantage in cornering or braking: the two cars have similar weight, tire section width, and suspension designs. The Audi's slightly better weight distribution would, we thought, be nixed by the Acura's wider track. And we were right -- as expected, the cars posted similar braking and cornering numbers in standardized testing.

But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second.

Although the two all-wheel-drive systems are different in design, they both strive to accomplish the same thing: temporarily routing extra power to the outside rear wheel to help rotate the car in a turn. The big difference here is how these two cars are set up to handle to begin with.

The Acura is blessed with nearly perfect cornering balance, so its rear differential can easily and dramatically alter the car's handling attitude. It takes a little while to build up trust in the system, but you soon realize that if the car can handle any amount of power in the middle of a turn, it can handle anything the V-6 can throw at it. There's no reason to be scared of the right pedal-the TL begs you to steer it with the throttle. The more power you add, the more neutral the TL's cornering balance and the faster it scrambles through turns. Indeed, the Acura was faster than the Audi through nearly every single corner at BeaveRun.

The Audi's all-wheel-drive system is crippled by so much understeer built into the chassis that, at very best, it will help the car approach neutrality. You can feel the computer shuffling power around, but it's slower to react than the Acura's system, so it takes patience and smoothness to get there. Add too much power or turn in too quickly and you're back to drowning in a pool of understeer. The S4 is far less bothered by midcorner bumps or puddles than the TL, but its cornering balance changes dramatically at very high speeds, when it transitions to oversteer. That's a surprise that no one likes.

The other surprise was how spectacularly undersize the Acura's brakes are. Even on a cool, rainy morning, one lap of BeaveRun was sufficient to fry the brakes completely. Each timed lap was completed only after a lengthy cool-down period and a call to our mothers saying we made it through alive.

If it seems like neither car can pull an advantage here without the other catching up, you've been paying attention. The final equalizer is that, comparably equipped, the Audi costs nearly $11,500 more than the Acura. That kind of money can buy the TL a serious brake upgrade. But the price difference isn't much of a factor here, since we've never actually heard of someone cross-shopping a TL and an S4.

It's beside the point to declare a winner or loser when comparing two cars that fall into such different hands in the real world. As that most rabid of enthusiasts, you already have your own prejudices and opinions based on the brands alone, not to mention the countries from which they hail. If we could combine the Audi's good looks, brakes, and tupercharged V-6 with the Acura's steering, handling, and all-wheel-drive system, we'd have discovered luxury car nirvana for the enthusiast driver. In the absence of that elusive hybrid, we walk away from these two wolves in sheepish skins knowing that they are absolute equals in one way: the ability to reassure us that there is, in fact, life after Evo.

Techtonics: Dueling 4WD
While the Acura and Audi four-wheel-drive systems differ in hardware, their performance goals are the same: excellent traction and stability on slippery roads with rear-wheel-drive feel and agility on dry surfaces. Forcing the outboard rear wheel to turn faster during hard cornering is the trick that helps both of these front-heavy sedans mimic the steering and handling behavior of a nicely balanced rear-driver. A control computer informed by sensors determines when the overdrive nudge is needed.

The Audi S4's fifth-generation Quattro system ties the front and rear axles together with a center differential that provides a 40/60 front/rear torque split.

A Torsen device inside the center diff and automatic front brake applications limit individual wheel slippage.

When the Acura TL's SH-AWD (Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive) system chooses to send power rearward, the driveshaft to the rear wheels spins 1.7 percent faster than the front axles. Partially engaging both of the rear-wheel overdrive gears diminishes the torque conveyed by the front wheels. To produce a yaw moment beneficial to handling, only the outboard rear wheel's overdrive is engaged.
- Don Sherman

2010 Acura TL SH-AWD

Price: $43,245/$44,245 (base/as tested)
Engine: 24-valve SOHC V-6
Displacement: 3.7 liters (224 cu in)
Horsepower: 305 hp @ 6300 rpm
Torque: 273 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Drive: 4-wheel
Steering: Electrically assisted
Suspension, front: Control arms, coil springs
Suspension, rear: Multilink, coil springs
Brakes f/r: Vented discs/discs, ABS
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport PS2
Tire size: 245/40YR-19
L x w x h: 195.5 x 74.0 x 57.2 in
Wheelbase: 109.3 in
Track f/r: 63.2/63.8 in
Weight, dist. f/r: 3860 lb, 58.0/42.0%
EPA Mileage: 17/25 mpg

Acceleration
0-60 mph: 5.4 sec
0-100 mph: 13.5 sec
0-110 mph: 16.3 sec
0-120 mph: 20.5 sec
0-130 mph: 24.9 sec
0-140 mph: *
0-150 mph: *
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 14.1 @ 102
30-70 mph passing: 6.8 sec
peak g: 0.66 g

Braking
70-0 mph: 157 ft
Peak g: 1.15 g

Speed In Gears
1: 37 mph
2: 64 mph
3: 88 mph
4: 120 mph
5: 133 mph*
6: 133 mph*
*limited to 133 mph

2010 Audi S4

Price: $46,725/$54,075 (base/as tested)
Engine: 24-valve DOHC supercharged V-6
Displacement: 3.0 liters (183 cu in)
Horsepower: 333 hp @ 5500 rpm
Torque: 325 lb-ft @ 2900 rpm
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Drive: 4-wheel
Steering: Hydraulically assisted
Suspension, front: Control arms, coil springs
Suspension, rear: Multilink, coil springs
Brakes f/r: Vented discs/discs, ABS
Tires: Pirelli Cinturato P7
Tire size: 245/40YR-18
L x w x h: 185.7 x 71.9 x 55.4 in
Wheelbase: 110.7 in
Track f/r: 61.1/60.6 in
Weight, dist. f/r: 3940 lb, 55.3/44.7%
EPA Mileage: 18/27 mpg

Acceleration
0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
0-110 mph: 13.5 sec
0-120 mph: 16.4 sec
0-130 mph: 19.7 sec
0-140 mph: 23.4 sec
0-150 mph: 28.6 sec
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 13.5 @ 110
30-70 mph passing: 5.7 sec
Peak g: 0.69 g

Braking
70-0 mph: 158 ft
Peak g: 1.08 g

Speed In Gears
1: 38 mph
2: 65 mph
3: 93 mph
4: 124 mph
5: 153 mph
6: 153 mph

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Repost!

Pete2010

FiftyFive

link?

jasonwdp10

This article was written today.. are u sure?

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Well it was thoroughly discussed here I guess. LOL

Plus the S4 vs TL thread.

No worries though.

andrec8513

This even makes me more excited. Within 2 weeks, we will be getting the TL-SHAWD base in WDP with Taupe Interior...

compewterbleu

Be excited, be very excited...

and the link is the heading

black label

Non written rules for the (not counting you in that group FiftyFive) no calling and without providing a link or you could face the wrath of Junior Bean, apparently it's a pet peeve of his.

FWIW TSX69 has very few posts actually written out by him, he's like the resident news article bloodhound who seems to cover all models and he'll revive a thread from 7 years ago instead if the new stuff he has is relevant to it.

Outlaw06

tl;dr

so, who won?

unlemming

I find it an odd comparison, the *4 is much smaller (though oddly heavier) than the TL. I also think non-R Audi's are quite bland inside and out. I have a hard time finding a direct competitor to the TL (price/size/features), which I'm not sure is a "positive" thing. Maybe the ES350 to the base TL, but they're clearly cars for different drivers.

smarty666

Probably one of the closest competitors to the TL is the Maxima. I'm not saying that b/c I have one, but b/c its constantly compared to it. The price range is pretty close, the FWD and engine size is pretty similar (280/305 vs 290) and the sizes are about the same, though the TL is a little bigger I believe, and the technology/features are similar though each has some feature/tech advantages over the other. Just my

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I subscribe to this. I've read the article. There are some things that the TL does better than the S4, and vice versa.

However, the author of the article said he'd take the Audi. Who can blame him? So would I.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

Yeah. The 3.5SV non-Sport models compare favorably with the TL FWD models in personality. The ES350 is probably a fair competitor as well, among some others.

If I wasn't going for the AWD, I'd probably choose the Maxima over the TL FWD.

TechnoCat

I am a huge Audi fan... even more so after buying this 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT... Acura fans often just don't know what really is on the other side.

But that said, the Audi interiors are bland compared to the TL's. Audi has better finishing touches (softer linings to the cubbies, slightly higher-quality-feeling materials), but the Acura interior looks better, feels fine (except the head restraint, which is screwed up) and has more toys.

You can feel why the S/A4 is smaller-but-heavier though. The Audi is a bit more composed on the road, and the doors close with a much more satisfying thunk. The doors and trunk of the TL sound comparatively like "clink". The sunroof liner is more solid and heavier in the A4 too.

Those are areas where it does impact perception, perhaps, but I can't see any benefit to performance. The Acura may be a bit less composed, but it's very nimble. Even though it's larger, there's more fun go-kart to the TL. And for anywhere near the price the speed of the TL rocks.

You're right - they aren't direct competitors.

black label

Definitely the closest competitor to the TL is the Maxima when you are talking FWD versions, dollar for dollar, feature for feature, hp for hp. The ES350 and G37 probably get cross shopped more frequently but this is because they are "japanese high line cars of a similar size in a similar price range". The fact is tht the ES, TL and G don't really compete that much with each other. Most people who drive all 3 prefer one of the 3 much more than the other 2, which one that is depends on what they are looking for from a car.

As an Acura Salesman, I'm more worried about a customer who really liked the way a FWD TL drove going to look at the Maxima than I am if they are going to look at a ES or a G, the Maxima offers a similar ride/features/power at a lower price.

smarty666

That is why I have the best of both worlds, 3G TL and a 7G Max!

CTsteve

How does the 2010 TL sh-awd/tech/6MT stack up against the BMW 528?
At $40k, the TL is a compelling sports sedan. Is the 528 that much better?
I"m not sure the BMW 3 series is the target that Honda was aiming at but I could be wrong.
Thoughts, comments, criticisms pls.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The answer lies somewhere between "Yes, it's that much better" and "No, it isn't." Allow me to explain.

It depends upon what's important to you in a midsize sport luxury sedan. The 5-Series is going to be dynamically as good, but less powerful. On the flip side, the 528 has a much nicer interior and a lot of extra available features.

So what's important to you? Great dynamics, decent power, and a laundry list of features available, or great dynamics, more power, and plenty (but noticably less) features?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Unless the 2011s have a much nicer interior than the 2010's I'd respectfully disagree that the 528 has a much nicer interior than the TL (at least the AWD -Tech).

One of the things that turned me off about the 5 Series when I was considering it was the bland, 80s-style interior, with vinyl seating standard, crummy sound system and lack of simple things like I-pod connections (unless you up-ordered them).

I haven't checked on the 2011s, so maybe they've improved on these issues.

SSFTSX

It is nonsense that BMW 5 is dynamically competenet as TL-SH-AWD.
In C&D test. Audi A6 AWD had better handling than 535. and A6 AWD is way down than S4 in handling.
It is not just 6AT but broad torque delivery that gave MDX 2010 such performance boost even with 19inch.
All TL needs is 6AT and lower rpm torque MDX engine
It will shave off 1 second time from 5AT and about half second time from
6MT performance. that will put TL Sh-AWD in BMW M3 category dynamically with 6MT and 6AT supeior to BMW 335 M Sport.

Performance gap between 2007 MDX and 2010 MDX is 0.8 second at 60 mile,
2 second at 100 mile markx and 10 seconds at 120 mile mark. 3 mile gap at quarter mile. MDX 2010 pull even more gs.

Both car has 615 mile on ODO and MDX 2010 is tested at 10 degree lower temperature. MDX 2010 is 50 lbs heavier

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...f64fdb939a.pdf

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...9038fddf16.pdf

with slightly upgraded engine. TL would be nearly identical to S4 in slolam run. which no standard BMW 5 can beat. I have doubt about M5 as it get longer. the longer the BMW cars the less handling quality.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

I've had a seat in the new 2011s finally, and yes it is much nicer than the E60 interior, of which I was also a critic.

YeuEmMaiMai

for a heaver car it certantly has the performance edge though

graphicguy

That's the way I felt, too....with the BMW 5 and the Audi S/A4....they were bland compared to the build and materials in the TL.

Plus, to get the feature content of the TL in either a BMW, Mercedes or and Audi, you really had to climb way up the price ladder. On top of that, I've yet to find any sport seats that were nearly as good as those in the TL SH AWD.

TechnoCat

The trouble with the TL forum is that fans judge everything in bias to the TL. Anything better than the TL is considered unnessecary, anything worse is clearly a sign. Not that both posters claimed BMW was inferior in the 5-series interior for blandness. How many BMWs or Audis have the two of them owned together?

Yes, the BMW interior is bland compared to the TL SH-AWD (and yes, every single thing is an option - but you can get the faster 335i-xDrive stick for $2K over the price of the TL AWD stick... just missing some features the TL has. There's no price at which point you can get a TL SH-AWD with folding rear seats, comfortable head restraints for all, 335ix performance and a functional iPod search.) So is the Audi A/S-4 interior. The TL has more audacious stitching, instrumentation, buttons - oh boy does the TL have buttons. The BMW and Audi interiors are both, indeed, more austere... and pleasing to live with. Better quality plastics, with softer feel. Better quality switches. Doors that thunk rather than clink. Sunglass cubbies that are padded so the sunglasses don't rattle. Door handles that match the car rather than being sourced from the Saturn overstock dept.

I'll give you a quick test that you can do in two minutes in any dealership. Go in and pull the sunshade for the sunroof back and forth.

The Acura TL one feels light and flimsy, and feels plasticky. The Audi and the BMW ones feel like they weigh three times as much.

Of course, that isn't a necessary checkbox when measuring car features, but it is part of the perception of interior quality.

All this said, I don't consider the TL's interior to be poor; it's every bit the equal of price-equivalent Volvo models, for example. The only bits that matter to me are the rattles and the uncomfortable head restraints; if those were fixed, the rest (such as lack of up/down on the lumbar, such as no underseat storage, such as the useless glove box, such as the butt-only heater on the passenger seat) would matter a lot less to me.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Cat- you seem surprised that so many of us on a TL forum really like our cars. You obviously do not, but that's what makes this a great country. We get to disagree on matters of opinion. Most of the things we debate on here are just that - matters of opinion.

I think the BMW interior is bland compared to most cars I cross-shopped - not just the TL, but the G, and yes, the Audi. I also think BMW nickels and dimes you on features, again compared to the makes I cross-shopped.

And you do have me on one point - I've not owned a single BMW or Audi. Why? Same reason as my most recent purchase decision. If I wasn't put off by the worrisome reliability tales of co-workers or friends, I was certainly turned away by the feature/value proposition.

In the end, I narrowed it to G37 and TL. Both great cars, but I simply preferred the feel, look and features of the Acura.

6SpdTerror

Great article and comparo, but like the author said.....most avid enthusiasts already have their strong bias towards specific brands.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Did you expect anything different? That's why people are here-they love their Acuras.....

YeuEmMaiMai

get rid of the big ass ugly chunk of chrome on the front and the TL turns into one very nice looking car. I think that acura should have paired the AWD version with a 4.0L V6 to give them a decent power upgrade over the base.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

I do believe TechnoCat is right. I didn't get the impression that he acts like a specific branded forum has posters biased to that brand, but rather just stating it.

Anyway, while I do "love" my 3G TL I'm certainly not blinded from reality. I had recently spent time in an S6 and E500 when I first shopped for my 3G and it was clear: Honda made a damn nice interior for a roughly $33,000 car. While it felt like the interior of a car that could easily cost another 10 or 15 thousand more, it was NOT in the league of the Audi and Mercedes. The BMW's was/is also nicer but much blander looking. That's subjective anyway.

None of that has anything to do with the 3G other than me feeling that your money spent on a new M or E-Class definately shows inside. Again, that's opinion though.

black label

My only problem with your comparison (and I'll admit I have the same problem with the S4/TL comparison) is that you are taking cars that are clearly in 2 different size categories and comparing them based on price. Based on the size of the TL (195.5"), it should be compared with the 5 series at 193.1" and the A6 at 193.5".

The problem with comparing them based on the size of the car is that a 2011 535i RWD 6MT starts at $49600 and you haven't added one option, your seats will be "leatherette" (BMW's fancy terminology for cheap vinyl interior) and it will be alpine white or jet black any other color will increase the price. Your car has 5 hp less than a TL SHAWD and you have 27 more ft/lbs of torque.

A 2010 Audi A6 3.2 starts at $45200 and again this is a car with absolutely no options. In this case you are buying a "front track" (Audi's fancy terminology for front wheel drive) with a CVT transmission. You have 30 less hp than a TL SHAWD and you also have 30 less ft/lbs of torque. Fortunately, you will weigh 31 lbs less than a TL but if you were to add all of the options the TL SHAWD came with the advantage would be gone.

Now I'll admit that in the case of BMW and Audi they do allow things like engine options so you could take the performance advantages and change them around quite a bit but it will come at a huge cost and the magazines don't seem to like to compare a $43000 TL to a $60000 Audi and a $60000 BMW (being a stripped down A6 4.2 and a stripped BMW 550i). So what they do is take a car that offers an actual size equivalent and near power equivalent in the case of TL vs. BMW 535i and a power advantage in the case TL vs A6 3.2 and not compare them because they won't be anywhere near comparably equipped and the car that is the least expensive by several thousand dollars is fully loaded with AWD and the 2 cars that are 2000 to 6000 more expensive are stripped down cars that aren't AWD. To keep the pricing in check, the only thing they can do is take a Audi or a BMW (S4/335xi) that is actually an equivalent size to the TSX and compare it to the TL.

Unfortunately in the real world some people need cars of a certain size and can't just get away with a small car like a 335xi or S4 because it offers better performance stats or higher quality on interior panels at only a few thousand dollars higher cost than a TL. Along with that, in the real world most people have a budget that they work with when they buy a car so if they need a car in the size of a TL, to get a comparably sized BMW or Audi would be more than expensive than the TL and when you comparably equip those 5 series and A6's they fly even further out of the budget.

So with all things considered the TL offers quite an attractive package of a good sized car with great performance and a huge amount of features (not to mention Honda reliability) at a very attractive price point that can't really be matched by Audi and BMW.

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

The TL SH-AWD has no real competitors....other than maybeeee the CC VR6. For a similar about of power, size, and features the competition starts at almost 10-15 thousand more.

MurkyRiversTL

Really?? Still??

Have you looked recently at the problems with the current Audi's? talk about sunroof shades. Do me a favor and go to Audizine and look at all the problems those damn cars have. Who gives a crap if there doors are heavy and make a thud. Their window tracks fall apart and the window comes down, that must be a plus in your mind.
Push the visor back a little to hard in the audi and the track breaks, then you have an uncontrollable rattle that wont stop until you close the sun roof, and you wanna complain about not having a big enough deflector.
Or how about the upper center console that squeeks and rattles, where guys have to shove a piece of cardboard or plastic to get the thing to shut up.

You, sir, give way to much credit to these other companies, especially Audi. Dont get me wrong, theyre gorgeous cars and are fun to drive from the dealer, but within a few thousand miles youll have the deepest regrets.

but please, by all means, buy an Audi so we can hear your complaints

MyCarIsntInMyWifesName

graphicguy

Admittedly, I've never owned an Audi. My sister has an '08 A6. She says it's the worst car she's ever known. A colleague has an A8. He likes the car. Won't buy another Audi because of the issues he's had with it. I know two other people, both in A4s who feel the same way. Those experiences were what kept me from putting an Audi in my driveway.

Granted, I did shop them. Fact is, I could have bought an A4 for less than my TL SH AWD. I don't recall whether the doors or sunroof shade were any better (or worse) than those in the TL. Either I didn't slam the doors/sun shade hard enough. Or, the difference wasn't that obvious.

Having personally owned two BMWs (325 & 330) saying their interiors were austere would be an understatement. Facing facts, BMW just doesn't bother putting any thought nor R&D into their interiors. A 335ix for $2K more than a TL SH AWD? Show me where I can buy one. Add in comfort access, a (weak, at best) NAV and HK stereo, sports seats, etc, (as in the TL SH AWD) and you're well over $48K as a negotiated price. I know. I looked at a '10 335ix equipped the same way. Plus, the two 3s I owned I don't recall the roof shade, nor the doors being particularly better than the ones in my TL, either. Maybe they were, but not enough for me to notice.

The 5 series (535ix) is more in tune with the TL SH AWD. Similar interior as the 3 series. Shifter is a little different. But, more room and similar performance to the TL SH AWD. It's even more money.

Again, the reason we're all here is most of us did indeed cross shop BMWs, Audis but chose the TL. I even expanded my search to include Benz (C and E) and actually a Taurus SHO (a very nice car.....for a FORD). TL still won out.

Some like Audis. Some like Volvos. Some like Infinitis. All nice cars. But there are very good reasons we chose the Acura over all the rest.

I even picked up that issue of AUTOMOBILE. Looking at the "head on" picture of the S4 vs TL SH AWD comparison, you realize how "busy" the front of the Audi looks, compared to the "clean" look of the TL SH AWD. Obviously, I prefer the look of the Acura.

TechnoCat

Look through the posts here and you will know... I've owned three Audis prior to the TL. In those 14 years or so, had I think three warranty issues, all dealt with well and quickly. My TL developed a problem within three months (rubber keeps sliding out from under the rear spoiler), so it's already at par for defects with my extensive Audi experience.

Car reliability is very definitely a luck-of-the-draw thing. I do believe the Acura will be, statistically, a far more reliable car... but the Audis also are probably three times more reliable than anything you could buy in 1980.

MurkyRiversTL

Yeah youre right, its a probability.

MurkyRiversTL

As far as interior quality, evrything prior to the 4th gen TL I would agree was below the Audi in interior quality. I have always been a fan of Audis tight leather. Trust me when I say that I have been the biggest Audi fan, I still want to get one (not a new one, the direct injected engines are the worst ever, I want a b6 a4) but it doesnt change that their reliability is lacking.

I feel the 4th gen interior is equal or greater to the current audi line up. I know a lot of you complain about the buttons on the dash, but honestly they make sense. Have you had a chance to play with the new Audi MMI? it sucks, there are no buttons. There is just one know to control everything, you have to exit this screen to adjust this screen then go back to that screen to adjust the other screen. Its lame.

Ona personal note, do you have the v6 or the 2.0t for your a4?

compewterbleu

It does look busier. I don't really see many in my area and for the large size of the parking area around where I work I see more BMW's, Infinit's, Acura's, MB's and not many Audi's at all.
Many of the the soldiers, government employees, and contrators who have lived in Germany mention that BMW's 3 and 5 series aren't a big deal. That you don't have a "true" BMW unless you buy a 6 or 7 series. One guy just returning from over there says they back the 3 and 5 series in the garage so folks don't see the rear end to distinguish which one it is. MB's are taxi cab's and if it's not a big body Benz it's snot a real Benz. Why am I saying this, I just believe that over here in America we get caught up in the hype of status and make more "Status buys" than anyone else.

TechnoCat

Yeah, I consider the current (past six years or so) Audi styling to be a disaster. Worse even than the TL's styling, which Acura considers such a disaster that they're aborting it after only two years! And here I thought the Bangle-BMWs initially were hideous. Uggah.