swoosh

iTrader: (5)

EDIT:

My 535i xDrive Sedan Details
3.0 liter, 6-cylinder engine with TwinPower Turbo technology
xDrive, intelligent all-wheel drive
See all standard features
BASE MSRP
$55,400
Titanium Silver Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather$0
Dark wood trim$0
Driver Assistance Package$1,900
Dynamic Handling Package$3,500
Luxury Seating Package$2,400
• Heated front seats$500
Premium Package$1,500
Technology Package$2,800
Destination & Handling:$895
TOTAL MSRP AS BUILT$69,445

note this DOESNOT INCLUDE the following:
Active Cruise Control $2,400
Bang & Olufsen Sound System $4,500
Cold Weather Package $950
M Sport Package $2,900
BMW Individual Composition $5,800

I didnt include these options in to make it more "comparable"

So if you include couple of those, add another 10K in the price....

so a 535xi fully loaded has a sticker of around 80K....now please lets not resume how much people are paying for it....that is twice the cost of a TL....

my point is you comparing a sub 50K car to a 80K car....cant be any clearer than that dude....

saturno_v

and again...your point is??? Have you remotely read what we said in this forum???

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

No, wasn't leaning toward the fact that it's a pricey car and you SHOULD love it more than your car. I guess since the TL is in my price range, but the Panamera isn't but is one of my favorite cars on the road...I assumed everyone else should want that car more than a 4G too.

Like I said, you love your car very much and obviously price isn't the biggest divider amongst cars that you consider equal.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

saturno_v

From the Acura web site:

http://hondanews.com/channels/acura-...ra-tl-overview

Hopefully this will clarify your understanding of what I was saying...if it doesn't, I frankly give up....

saturno_v

So again....I have necessarily to like a more expensive car?? I salivate after a CLS AMG, the Aston Martin Rapide would be my dream sedan and the Quattroporte is to die for but the Panamera does nto do anything for me.....what is so strange or so hard to understand??? I do not like that car...it does not means I consider it equal to a TL.....two totally different concepts.....

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Saturno buddy....i dont deny....you can even compare the TL to the S-class...

my point being if you are out shopping, got a budget of 50K or even 55K which cars would you compare?

I would def not check the 5 series/E class/A6 as for 55K you will get the bare bone without any options at all....now they can be compared to the TL as the entry level 528xi at 50K has 240HP, E350 is at 52K and has 302HP, Audi A6 2.0 Quattro Premium is at 46K and has 211HP....but then again you dont get anything....NO OPTIONS AT ALL....

if my budget was 50-55K i would look into C350, 335i, TL, A4 Prestige....and if my budget was 65-70K, I would look into the E/5/A6.....thats all am trying to say....

saturno_v

...and all I'm trying to say is that not every car shopper has a fixed budget to the last dollar in his mind....sometime the budget can be "orientative"

I never brought up an S Class, why did you??


So if for you is all matter of price, I can fully load a Jaguar XF for less than 60K..V8 385 HP..... 20K below a fully loaded 535...so for you is an inferior car, according to your logic??? Explain that.....

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

actually thanks for bringing that up as it just helped my case....

i shop with a budget in mind (which is slightly flexible) but I dont want to overspend and have a remorse everytime the payment date comes around....

again the way i shop is "how much can i downpay", what interest rate am I getting?, can i pay the car off early....i would love a 36/48month term....so how much is my monthly payment....

this is how i decide how much I can afford....

so if that comes to 50K, I am def looking at the TL....if it comes to 80K i will look at cars in that price range and will short list them by Reliability/Styling/Upgrade options/Aftermarket support/other things which dont come to mind right now.....and i bet most of the people shop that way....

I would love to shop without a budget and just go out there and buy the car i like....i would def love to do that....

finally, what the fawk are we talking about....you might have a 70K budget and did a smart thing by buying a 45K car....i might have a budget of 35K and might have done a stupid thing by buying the same 45K car....

we went from comparing by price/power to comparing in class and now we are just comparing?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

All you had to say was you dislike the Panamera.

To say that you'd rather have your TL seemed ludicrous to me and again brought us back to a comparison, which is why your posts in response to Swoosh are in a tailspin.

If you don't want to compare, then stop comparing.

saturno_v

Class for me is made of, technical features and refinement, size, fit and finish, power/performance.

Price can and does swing among these parameters, depending on the brand....I already brought to you the example of a fully loaded Jaguar XF which can be had for less than 60k (I did just play with the configurator at Jaguar USA web site)

You do not think the XF is an inferior car because it can be had for 20K less than a 535 fully loaded do you???

Brand and perception do take a part in the total picture but that is highly subjective.....

saturno_v

So why is so "ludicrous" to you that I say "I rather have my TL than a Lexus LS"?? Where is the logic (or lack of thereof) in your counterpoint?? So, according to you, it is ok for me to dislike the Panamera but is not ok to say that I rather have my TL?? I dislike it so much that I rather have my TL...that sound better to you??

Would you rather have your 3G TL or a more expensive Lincoln Town Car??

What "tailspin" are you talking about??

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

and your point?

so if you had the budget of 60K you will look at the Jag, good for you....if I had 60K i would be looking at the 2013 Mustang Shelby GT500....

but if you had 50K would you look at the E350? 528xi? A6 2.0 quattro premium? or would you rather look at the TL SHAWD? C350? 335xi? A4 2.0 prestige quattro?

this is the tailspin Jeremy is talking about....

and if you answer with what i think you are going to answer, then i give up

saturno_v

Now I got you with your "price=class" logic and you are trying to get out of it.....I did already answered before.....many people do not have a fixed budget to the dollar (and as you go up in price it is more and more the case).....if the 535 had some features I did want I could have have gone with it...yes a decent optioned 535 would have cost me more than a TL butIi could have afforded....and so many other 4G owners polled in another thread long time ago..


Yes if the 50K, in this case, is your absolute barrier then a decentky optioned 5 Series is out of question....however, personally I would not even considered the 3 Series in my case...too small and cramped, I wanted a larger, plushier sport sedan......in one way functionally the TL is closer to the 5 Series than to the 3 Series (E90 at the time of my prurchase)

The 3 Series is a small and nimble sport sedan...viceversa, .if I was looking for one I would never have considered the TL....


Me and many others, do not buy a car by the pound or by the dollar....but on what that car has to offer.....

Price does not always equal class...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ DUDE GO BACK AND REREAD....

i never said the "price of a class should be the same"

all i said is TL falls in the class of 3/A4/C as it shares a lot of common things with them with price being one of them....

either way, i think am done in this thread....

in the end to each their own....its your dime and your decision....

so when is the next TL coming out? any spy shots? pricing/options/specs list?

saturno_v

No idea....nothing so far.....hopefully they will keep the manual stick option or at least introduce an efficient dual clutch transmission...

However i think I will skip it because I tend to keep my cars longer than most (my TL will be 2 years old in October and it has only 17K miles)

So in my case you have to talk about 6th generation!!!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ hahaa....yeah i dont plan on selling my 3G in the foreseeable future....

now if someone offers me something which i cant refuse then i shall look into another car but it would be in the lines of a coupe/sports car....but have been car payment free since the past 3 years (Nov 2009 i paid her off) and i love that feeling

but yeah i certainly hope they make some nice improvements visually and to the engine/transmission and dont come out with something shitty which gives you 38mpg highway....there is a PRIUS for that.... LOL

08AcuraTL3

lmao I never thought my thread would turn into this.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I'd give up my 3G for saturno's 4G. But that's about it...everything else, to me, is kinda 2nd class.


Ok, thanks for breaking it down for me. You're right, you're entitled to your opinion. But when you say that you'd take your 4G over a Porsche that is superior in many ways, some subjective, some factually (never did I mention because it was expensive, you did) then my opinion and logic is to find your opinion a little questionable.

saturno_v

So in your opinion we are not allowed to do not like a Porsche, regardless of the model...ok got it master....I apologize for daring to prefer my car over the master of the car universe brand....what is the punishment??

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

You are banished to only drive that 4G for the next 10 years...
I said quite a few times, I'm glad you love your car, man. It's all good.

Now...Germany Germany Super Wings (or Allies?)...but you prefer your jap car over my German car. Why couldn't you just agree with me?!

Ok, in all seriousness, I can see how I came across as pompous, which apologize for...but do you just dislike Porsche in general or just the Panamera? I did find it ludicrous and thought you were disagreeing just to disagree.

saturno_v

I like a lot some flavours of the 911, I like very much the Boxster and Cayman, absolutely loved the Carrera GT and the good old 924/944 and 928 ...the last one is the absolute unappreciated masterpiece from Porsche...I came across a very good 928 specimen few years ago which I could have got it for the proverbial song...but I was scared about potential horrendous repair bills......

Now the bad part...I hate with a vengeance the Cayenne, especially the first generation...I'm not into SUVs in the first place but the Cayenne takes the cake, IMHO, as far as ugly SUVs go....seriously I did prefer the look of my wife Tribeca when she wanted a big SUV than the Stuttgart Panzermobile.....I would rather have 1 Infiniti FX instead of 10 Cayennes turbo...seriously...

After the Cayenne, the Panamera is the next ugly Porsche ultramobile in my book...Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear agrees with me.......ok ok..if the choice was Panamera or Toyota Camry or Chevy Malibu I would get the Panny.....but I would go as low as choosing a fully loaded V6 Mazda 6 than the Panamera...again, no joking.....

I think the problem with Porsche is that all of their cars in recent memory, for some decision the company made, "have to" resemble, they "must" look like they are related to the iconic 911...which spelled styling disaster IMHO if you try to morph that design language in a large SUV and a large sedan......

When they strayed a little bit from that concept, trying to be more original, they made very nice looking cars (Boxster/Cayman) and gorgeaous looking cars (924/944/928 and Carrera GT)

Overall though, if we get into serious six figures hardware, I would rather get into a Lambo or Ferrari or even Aston...the 911, even in its top of the range models, dose not cut it in my view as a truly exclusive "rarefied air" exotic....in other words, at that price level I want more than a 6 banger....

When I was living in Europe where I grew up, I did own German cars (BMW and Audi, my dad was a Mercedes fan) over there you pretty much have no other choice than the "German route" when it comes to cars more exciting than basic transportation...recently there is more Japanese offering in the old world (Infiniti landed in Europe 2 or 3 years ago) but way fewer models/engines than here and with a spotty dealership and service network...

Since living in Northamerica, everytime I did buy a car I did cross shop the Germans (especially BMW) but so far for my orientative budget I did find the Japanese offering more compelling in my view.....as my budget will tend to increase (and getting into mildlife crisis a decade from now ) I may end up getting into German iron again.....the Japanese offering tends to be less articulated as you climb the segment ladder.....

My dream sport sedan right now?? Mercedes CLS AMG....especially if I would living in SoCal where I do not have to deal with snow.....

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Whoah!
That was a great post, man.
That also explains it...you're a Porsche guy, but you're a Porsche purist and feel that all these adaptations to make SUV's are a bit of a bastardization of the brand.

I got you and I kind of agree with you...I spent Summer's in Switzerland and never really did like the whole movement to bigger and badder always. Especially not in the midst of a fuel crisis.

I guess, in a way, I had a similar reaction to the Cayenne when i first saw it...wtf is that poor Porsche doing as an SUV! But it grew on me...I also never liked the Boxster...it seemed like a poor man's Porsche and I didn't like that either.

Sounds like we're more or less on the same page!
Have a good one,
J.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

Jeremy, y u start it again?

back to 5G

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

No way! I was agreeing with him...

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ he does not agree with your agreement

j/k....i was writing towards post 179 LOL

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Oh...yeah, that was just me being a tool, as usual.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ LOL you are not....just giving you a hard time....

EDIT: and the obligatory

Rocketsfan

Sooooo.... about that 5G....

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I really would love to see some pictures of what it might look like. Guess this thread was a bit premature.

Anil, thanks buddy.

08AcuraTL3

yup, sure cant wait to see some spy shots

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

lol at swoosh

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

lol@Justin

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

proud?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

much

OrlandoM

Will probably be out 2014. Honda and Acura always do this... A new design, then after a couple of years a refresh that only lasts two years.

And since the refresh for the TL was 2012. I think 2014 will be the new one.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ yup....we will see the 5G designs in 2013 and it will be for sale around September/October 2013

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

^^^Anil is our new inside source.

Sooo...if you're in the market for a 7 Series Beamer, or Masserati, just wait and see what the 5G will look like first.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

LOL...thats how Acura has been doing it...i follow the trends...

example: ILX