twigglius

iTrader: (6)

It's about time for me to pick up some new tires and I have searched many threads on acurazine to see what all the members think. I have searched many sites for the best prices and I have also gone on consumer reports to see what they had to say.

All of my research has been for 19'' tires and from what I can gather a lot of members have one of the below tires.

BFG G-Force T/A KDW2
Toyo Proxy T1R
Toyo Proxy 4
General Exclaim UHP
Falken FK-452

Let me just say that I currently have a set of Toyo T1R's and I really like them. In their old age they are slightly noisy, but it's really not that bad. They stick pretty good but they could be a touch stickier if you ask me.

I have heard good and bad things about the tires I listed above. The BFG seem to be rediculously loud but stick very well. The Generals seem to be great in all areas, especially price. And the other tires seem to be pretty average but not overly priced.

Now onto what consumer reports has to say. They did a very extensive test for All season UHP tires and Summer UHP tires. The test is brand new (Nov 2007).

Consumer Reports Rating Guide

Overall score emphasizes safety-related tests, including braking, handling, and resistance to hydroplaning. Displayed scores are rounded; models are listed in order of precise overall score. Dry braking was from 60 mph, and wet braking was from 40 mph with the antilock brake system engaged. Dry handling includes how well the tires gripped in an avoidance maneuver involving a swerve into the left lane and back into the right lane; dry cornering grip on our skidpad; and subjective steering feel. Wet handling includes wet cornering on our wetted skidpad and subjective handling ratings from our wet-handling circuit. Hydroplaning reflects how quickly we could drive through standing water before the tires began to skim on the surface. Snow traction reflects the distance our test car needed to accelerate from 5 to 20 mph on moderately packed snow. We tested ice braking on a skating rink from 10 mph with the ABS disengaged. Rolling resistance, measured on a dynamometer, is a factor in fuel economy. Noise and ride reflect our on-road judgments. Tread life is an indicator of wear potential from CR's 12,000-mile mixed driving test and is not part of the overall score. Price is retail we paid for the 225/40ZR18 size we tested. Overall scores and Ratings are relative to tire category.

Summer UHP



All Season UHP



In the past I have bought Primarily Toyo's and Nitto's. Now I am thinking differently! I don't want to spend $300 a tire for the Pilot Sports or the P-Zero but after reading this I am looking into the Bridgestone Potenza RE 050 A Pole Position. I mean, they can't be as bad as those pile of shit EL42's. Do any of you have any feedback on these tires?

What are your thoughts? Iive in Arizona so I don't really need an all season tire. Your feedback is welcome and very appreciated. (sorry for the crappy scan job. I had to do it at work)

Thanks guys,

CDA

chill_dog

I have Toyo Proxes 4 currently and I think they're great tires. And like you, I've always bought Toyo's. However, this next time around, I'm going to try the Generals...great reviews/ratings on every source I checked and cheaper than the Proxes 4...it's worth a shot as far as I'm concerned.

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

Yea, I know what you mean. onlinetires.com has them for $115 a piece for a 235x35x19... That's fucking cheap! The only thing that concerns me is that the Consumer Reports wear rating. It was in the Fair category.

I was sold on the Nitto Invio and now I don't know what to do. The T1R didn't rate great either and I think it has been a pretty damn good tire. Now I'm leaning towards the Potenza RE 050 A Pole Position, but then again the tire wear is fair on that tire as well.

chill_dog

Not bad...slightly cheaper than Tire Rack ($120).

You're in AZ, you should get a true summer tire, which some classify the General as. The tread looks more similar to the Proxes 4 than the T1R or other summer tires to me, so I'd consider it an A/S, but who knows.

Check out the wear ratings on 1010tires.com and Tire Rack, too...read the reviews...I think they should last 30k...I was looking at low- to mid-30k's with my Toyo's; that's a number I can live with for around $400 a set.

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

That's the other thing. Being in Arizona, I do want to look at a true summer tire since an all season is uneeded. I have 21,000 miles on my T1R's and I probably have another 4,000 before I will be in dire need of a new set. Decisions, decisions...

Consumer Report did consider the Exclaim UHP as an A/S and by the tread design I would agree.

01tl4tl

The Exclaim earned a M&S rating because of certain design elements in the tread- a closer look than the website gives shows off the technology- I posted some of mine recently, do a search of the other recent tire threads
Designed as a summer tire it works dry and wet, just not so good in freezing temps or ice and snow, they would get you thru a brief period of crazy weather, but I would put real snow tires on the TL for mountain driving anyway.

Sticky- hangs on in turns and throttle, you have to let the wheel play out to lay down the power coming off a turn
Stopping- excellent excellent- hey where did this water bottle come from?

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

^^^ Ha... They stop that well, huh? I still don't know what I'm going to do. Eveything I read on the Nitto Invio and the Brighstone Potenza RE 050 A Pole Position is either excellent or terrible. It seems like the consumer ratings have no middle ground. They are either the greatest tires or the worst. I'm more familiar with Nittos but the Bridgestone does interest me, a lot!

01tl4tl

Get the generals
Good for street
Great price
Plan to enjoy many track day laps on mine
I continue to learn how well they grab- have not reached their limit yet,
but my teins are on they way...

01tl4tl

pics of my tires post #12

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...light=generals

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

^Man I love your enthusiasm but you are either sincerely excited or work for the company lol

I had the Exclaim in 235/40/18 and to me they seemed a bit soft in handling-soft sidewalls. Yes the tire is very light and quiet indeed and it said it was made in Germany so the quality is there!

The 245/35/19 size is XL so the sidewall might be stiffer-better handling, I don't know for sure since I haven't tried 'em in that size yet.

I now ride on Falken 452s in 245/35/19, also Xtra Load and $130 apiece. I'm satisfied so far, the tire is stiff, sticky, quiet and durable. The wear&tear is OK!

Hope this help!

01tl4tl

Yes thats right
I get .001 cents for every tire sold, I also get royalties from Seafoam, NGK, Bell helmets and numerous others. Please help me retire early!!!

My tires say made in Chezk Repulic!

There is an old business saying:
A happy customer tells 2 friends
An UNHAPPY customer tells 11

with the Internet, that has become 2 million for happy, and watch out- 11 million for unhappy customers-- who go forum to forum expressing their displeasure.

Think abut a movie you saw or product you bought- how many people did you tell ?

aziners are all friends bonded by interest in a car-
I grew up with race cars and airplanes and a competition license, I know a bit about tires and what makes them perform. I would run these or the F1s for those in nice winter locations.

The PROBLEM with Consumer Reports survey results is only people who are subscibers to CR get to send in the survey cards!
Tire Rack does straight up testing and reviews by any buyers of tires

ACTROS

iTrader: (7)

^Yeah I thought so, I'm all for a happy early retirement lol

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

I don't see that as being accurate...

The report said that the overall score emphasizes safety-related tests, including braking, handling, and resistance to hydroplaning. Displayed scores are rounded; models are listed in order of precise overall score. Dry braking was from 60 mph, and wet braking was from 40 mph with the antilock brake system engaged. Dry handling includes how well the tires gripped in an avoidance maneuver involving a swerve into the left lane and back into the right lane; dry cornering grip on our skidpad; and subjective steering feel. Wet handling includes wet cornering on our wetted skidpad and subjective handling ratings from our wet-handling circuit. Hydroplaning reflects how quickly we could drive through standing water before the tires began to skim on the surface. Snow traction reflects the distance our test car needed to accelerate from 5 to 20 mph on moderately packed snow. We tested ice braking on a skating rink from 10 mph with the ABS disengaged. Rolling resistance, measured on a dynamometer, is a factor in fuel economy. Noise and ride reflect our on-road judgments. Tread life is an indicator of wear potential from CR's 12,000-mile mixed driving test and is not part of the overall score. Price is retail we paid for the 225/40ZR18 size we tested. Overall scores and Ratings are relative to tire category.

lusid

The results are vastly different from other online places... so which can we believe in?

twigglius

iTrader: (6)

Found an interesting read. Car and Driver tested 11 big name tires and the results are here.

Test Results

lusid

Bummer those look to be all summer tires.

I have no need to read that now MN + Snow = bad

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

^^All Season UHP will work or have two sets of wheels and tires - winter and summer.

dragonlord

That's what I have right now. The BFG g-force T/A KDW NT with RonJon Legends as summer ( March-October) and the stock wheels and Michelins for winter (October -March). I have to get new summer tires next year, I was looking at the g-force Sport, but I will probably go to the F1's.

I HATE SNOW!!!!! I want to move sooo bad, but my son is still in high school. After that it's ADIOS Michigan!!!!!!

lusid

hah, ^

snow I dont mind, it's the drivers behind the wheel EVERY time it snows.

dragonlord

Snow is not bad, but it is like every year these people around here forget how to drive.

geekybiker

I've had the continental extreme contact tires before. I highly recommend them for a good all season. They have good traction in the dry, and are good in moderate snow. Love them for the chicago area. As soon as I can justify new tires on the TL, it's what Im mounting.

TLTrance

The CR report is crap... Actual user experiences will tell you this..

I hate cars

I'm happy to see CR gave the G-force KDW2 a "poor" for noise. Can't wait to get these things off my car.

FriscoNick

I just bought Bridgestone Portenazas AS for 880 bucks (plus tire rotation). Did I get a good deal?

Bearcat94

Nick, in the other two threads where you asked this quesiton, everyone said "YES, the Bridgestone is better and cheaper than the Michilen. You got a good deal."

Why do you keep going to different threads and asking again?

FriscoNick

Sorry Bear, I saw a consumer reports article that said the Bridgestones were only average, just trying to get different opinions.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I am currently running on these tires, and I am pleased with them!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

However, as the above article indicates, I am deadset on the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's. Best tire on the market, and cheaper than the Michelins.

Bearcat94

S'all right Nick. I was just getting the impression thay maybe you thought you got screwed somehow.

IMHO, Consumer Reports totally misses the mark in the tire comparision. 1st, they weigh price fairly heavily and "performance" fairly light. 2nd, they don't rate tires by conventional classes.

I'd prefer to compare tires that have similar objectives together - like Tire Rack does. That way I can find tires that give me what I want and then decide which in that catagory is the best value.

Here's a couple of links for you to look at. These are Tire Rack comparision tests on the road and on their "autocross" track and Customer Survey Results.

Tire Rack Ultra High Performance All Season Test

Tire Rack Customer Survey Results - Ultra High Performance All Season

Tire Rack High Performance All Season Test

Tire Rack Customer Survey Results - High Performance All Season



If you look at the general trend, the Ultra High Performance Tires do much better, both in tests and in customer survey responses. And they cost more. Which makes perfect sense to me, but not to Consumer Reports.

dragonlord

I TOTALLY agree! I've had them on for 3 summers, and the noise has just gotten worse. I have about 35000 miles on them, looking forward to next summer's change to Goodyear F1's.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

I used to sell tires so I'd like to think I know a thing or two.

Best high-performance tire? I LOVE MICHELIN PILOT SPORTS. Michelin makes great tires. Spend greatly on R&D. If I can say anything bad, they are known to have sidewalls that can get damaged easily and they are overpriced. They wear OK and I have seen more repeat customers for these tires more than any other high-performance tire. If I had the money I'd get these....Just can't afford $1k in tires right now. Newer Pilot Cup tires are supposedly awesome too. I think the PS2s are over-rated.

I also like the Bridgestone Pole positions, Goodyear F1s and Pirelli P-Zero Assimetricos (overpriced).

Tires I feel are OK or mid-grade have their greatest advantage in price: Kumhos (Ecsta MX or SPTs.) , Sumitomos, Hankooks, Nittos, Toyos,

I am not a fan of Dunlops (Hi-performance lines), Contis, Yokos (High-performance lines), Avons, Falkens, Uniroyals, Generals or Firestones.

Bearcat94

Lots of people like the Pilot Sports, but like you I think Michelin, generally, are over-priced. The tires aren't bad (although I am NOT a fan of the MXM4), just too expensive.

Nice to see someone from the biz with a similar opinion.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

I know I emphasized that Pilot Sports are great but let me also emhpasize that Goodyear F1s are phenomenal tires as well....

Skip the all-season ones (they look like sporty line "Triple-Tread") and go straight for the Z-rated ones! They are for some serious performance and I think the have the best hydroplane resistance of it's competitors. If I can swing the price they're my next set.

dragonlord

Just took off the BFG's and put stock on for the winter. It's snowing now, but I can't believe how LOUD the BFG's were. With the stock tires back on, you don't have to talk above a normal tone for conversation. And the ride is back to a little more cushion. What a total transformation! Next summer I'm getting the F1's.

I hate cars

I envy you. Just took the car in to Discount Tire. They pulled the tires off the rims, remounted so that the inside of the tire is now the outside but they're still rotating the right direction. Immediately they were quieter. I was told if they don't quiet down completely in 1,000 miles to bring it back for new tires. I'm thinking of taking a road trip to speed up the process. The tech was questioning my judgement of "too loud" until he drove the car and immediately agreed with me.

dragonlord

I loved the traction of the BFG's, especially when it was wet out, but the noise got to be unbearable. I also ended up with about 36000 miles on them. Stlii enough tread, but Discount Tire ( I ONLY use them) said I should think about repalcements next year (already was planning that).

tl_dinhsum84

I JUST GOT THEM FALKEN ZIEX ZE 912 FOR 467 INSTALLED AT FIRESTONE!!! THEYRE GREAT FOR THE PRICE