Okay, what is the best sway bar to get for the TL other then the comptech considering they have gone out of business. I have heard something about a progressive, but i cant seem to find how they preform. Please HELP, want to order a sway bar with in the next week

 

1) Comptech is no longer out of business, they closed temporarily while they underwent a maangement/ownership change.

2) Search "progress" swaybar. Everyone who has one swears by it.

 

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Like I did with my '05 TL (5AT).

I purchased a manual tranny sway bar for a TL which is 20mm vs 17mm for the 5AT. The TL-S uses the same 20mm bar.

Then all you need is the bushings and get this...the total cost is $60.00 from the dealer. Imagine if you get a discount or you buy a used bar from somebody upgrading to a larger aftermarket rear sway bar.

52300-SEP-A11 (20mm rear sway bar) - LIST $56.65
52306-SEP-A11 (bushings rear, 20mm) - LIST $2.07 EA

For that price you have nothing to lose. If you want to go with a huge rear bar, then you need to go aftermarket of course.

A-Train

 

Progress Auto hands down. 24MM adjustable. They were back ordered for like 3 months. I have a ton coming in in about a week or two.

 

How much is that going to cost?

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/sponsored-sales-group-buys-10/progress-sway-bar-special-358322/

 

Well here is what I can tell you...

I swapped in the 20mm TL-Manual/TL-S sway bar in my 5AT and it made a slight difference. Enough to keep me satisfied and cure my original complaint about this car leaning heavily in a turn and then plowing the front end. The difference in diameter is 0.118" or less than an 1/8".

17mm = 0.669"
20mm = 0.787"
24mm = 0.945"

I'm sure it's not the same as a 24mm bar, but I don't think it's the 4mm or 0.157" of an Inch that makes the difference but perhaps the material the bar is made from. Of course this is a Manual 20mm bar moving to the 24mm bar.

Going from 17mm (0.669") to 24mm (0.944") is a huge step up. That is over a 1/4" at 0.275" change in diameter of the sway bar.

I remember changing the sway bar on my '95 T-Bird from 7/8" diameter to 1-1/4" diameter and boy did it make a huge difference in handling. That was 0.375" change in bar diameter and they even made a 1-1/2" diameter bar.

While under the TL, I noticed how tiny and fragile all the parts looked compared to all the cast iron parts on the T-Bird. Then again there is no power being transmitted to the rear wheels on the TL. By comparison, the T-Bird used cast iron control arms, cast iron rear pumpkin (differential housing) and stamped steel upper control arms...now get this...most of the weight was in the FRONT or the car!

A-Train

 

did we ever figure out a solution to that situation w/ regards to the end links?

 

I think the "end link weakness" may be more of a theory than a proven issue. Leedog brought it up as a concern based on an installers comment, but I've never seen a reported failure on the board.

 

I'm just going to tell you right now that going from 20mm, up to 24mm, gives you about a 150 - 200% increase in stiffness (for a solid bar). It does make a big difference...

http://python.rice.edu/~arb/Courses/615_sway_bar.pdf

 

So it's the material, not the diameter.

Whatever the case may be...I'm sure it's a huge difference over the 17mm bar.

A-Train

 

The test fitment guy for the Progress RSB for the TL has had the bar on for over a year w/ the stock end links and he has reported no failure.

And thanks for the chart 94eg!. That is good info.

 

Is the front sway bar from a 5MT/TL-S larger also? What is the upgraded dia. front sway bar?
What is the end link problem you guys are referring to, is this a problem for upgrading from the 17mm to the 20mm bar?
Thanks

 

If you put a larger bar in the front you will have more understeer which you don't want b/c the car is FWD and already has a lot of understeer. You want a larger RSB to help the rear end kick out more. There is no problem with the end links; it was someone's speculation.

 

am i just dumb or am i not doing something right because i cant seem to find an aftermarket sway bars for an 04+ TL. they all seem to be for the earlier models. or do the earlier models fit the newer TLs too???

 

I see this asked throughout the thread. Bigger front swaybar= more understeer. Bigger rear= more oversteer. Swaybars are more of a fine tuning tool. Don't forget that the bigger bars take some of the "independence" out of the suspension... Seriously. You can't just go and throw the biggest baddest sway bar on an independent suspension car and expect to have no side effects. You will notice the car might corner better on perfect pavement but will skip more over bumps in a corner. I would get the car close to where you want it with springs and then tune with sway bars. On my live axle Buick I have a 1 3/4" rear sway bar and it's lighter than the TL but it doesn't hurt the performance like it has the potential to do on the TL. I think most people in here assume that if the car corners flatter it must corner better which is far from the truth.

 

This is because people don't understand that sway-bars effectively reduce traction on the inside tire. A larger bar further reduces traction on that end of the car. In a FWD platform, it is best to maximize front wheel traction, and then tune rear wheel traction to get the proper balance. If this means more body roll, then tough $h!t...

 

Another nifty sway bar chart from our down under friends http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf

Whiteline:

For road/race cars we advocate using the softest possible spring rate and only increasing as required. Also, as much as possible, use roll bars to control body roll.

Roll is best controlled by swaybars. Why not springs, you ask? Springs are primarily designed to hold the car up leaving some compliance to allow the wheels to follow the changes in the road surface. In which case, we can ask the question what is the ideal spring rate needed for “warp” modes? Many, including Whiteline will argue that the theoretical ideal rate is effectively zero, none, zilch! Why, because any rate that reacts against unimpeded individual wheel travel will result in a reduction in the quality and quantity of the contact patch.

Consider what happens when the car is loaded into a corner in roll and one or both of the loaded wheels encounter a change in road surface through a warp mode? Remembering the law of equal and opposite reactions, a loaded outside front wheel encountering a bump will encounter a significant rate through the pre-compressed spring (car is loaded in corner) resulting in the spring passing on the load to the body that will move away from the road. Result? Lost contact, even if only for a moment but potentially disastrous from a handling point of view when you consider its doing a great deal of the cornering work at the time.

We have been experimenting with grip and larger swaybars for a few years and struggled to explain why larger swaybars on stock cars increased grip as evidenced by measurable increases in mean lateral G values. For example, a stock WRX with a larger rear swaybar alone increased lateral G's on a skid pan by 0.025. The reason behind this we have concluded lies in the fact that the manufacturer has to build in reserves of excess capacity into the system to allow for the "Wally" factor. That is, understanding the load/grip relationship, what happens to grip if the quality of the contact patch is degraded through incorrect pressure, poor wheel alignment or worn edges?

More read here http://www.suspensionparts.info/showthread.php?t=272

 

That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever read.

Most cars will have improved handling with a slightly larger rear bar. Why? Because the manufacturer will almost always build a car that understeers because your average driver will freak out and cause a wreck if the rear steps out of line. They figure it's better to have the front end push all over the place because for the average driver it's safer. Add a larger rear bar, it's now more balanced and you have more traction and more likely for oversteer.

 

Guess what happens in this scenario with a moster swaybar? You hit a bump while cornering hard, the swaybar not only effectively increases the spring rate but also lifts the inside tire. Stiff springs will not do this. Think about the torsion bar "springs" some trucks use and then look at your swaybars. The concept is the same when you hit a bump with only one side of the car, they do increase effective spring rate. Hit a bump with both sides evenly and it does nothing.

Then there are other things like front end dive and rear squat and a hundred other things that could be said in favor of stiff springs and small bars.

 

So are you saying that it isnt a good idea to get a monster sway bar with out any other suspension tuning? What tuning would be the best for a sway bar like the Progress?

 

I'm not an expert in suspension techniques, are you? I just read what the people "in the know" write about their findings. No one is talking about monster/oversized bars here. Like everything else in life and in the car, the sway bar use needs to be balanced. Both the front and the rear bars need to be appropriately sized for the car's suspension geometry.

 

I'm not an expert but I do have plenty experience in drag racing and I've helped friends at auto-x days and picked up info here and there.

The stuff posted above goes against basic common knowlege. This was in no way bashing the poster. There are tons of variables especially on the street but generally stiff springs with a bar to do the fine tuning is what works. The tradeoff vs big sway bars is a stiffer ride.

I'm sure the bars help. One of my points is that you can get it to corner flatter and "feel" like it corners better only to have all out grip lessened because it's no longer balanced.

 

Can you let me know when you have these in stock please...there are a couple other things I would love to ask you about as far as parts go. Thanks!

 

I should have them ready to ship on 6/27.

 

the 6spd TL have 27.2mm front sway bat and the AT is 25.2 I upgrade to the MT FSB($80) and while turning the front feel more smooth and better response I think is better to upgrade to the MT FSB if you have a progress RSB(more balance)

 

JNBnova had an end link go bad. BTW, the Blox end links dont fit, too short

 

Also know the 07 TL-S uses a 27.2mm SOLID FSB, vs the 2004-2006 uses a 27.2mm hollow bar. The TL-S FSB will be much more rigid.

Lee, I worked on Jeff's car last weekend (blue led mods and kptech window), He told me the endlink went bad because he stripped it trying to remove the OE bar (to install the Comptech)... His failure was installer based, not a weakness in the link...

 

is that what it was? lol the idgit, now we know what the real weak link is

Nevertheless, I'm still concerned about that flimsy looking oem end link, so if anybody has any problems or finds a good aftermarket upgrade, let me know

 

How much are they going to be?

 

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358322