Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Looks like almost 1" difference in diameter as the stock Michelins were 25.6" diameter and the 245/40-17 DWS are only 24.7". Wait until they start to wear and shrink even more. The load rating of 91 is also @ 500 lbs less than the OE size, but if not loaded down that won't present a problem.

Masta120

Has anyone tried the Good Year Assurance TripleTred All-Season?

I am looking for new all season tires on my 2005 TL. I currently have the Bridgestone 960's. In dry/wet they were great, in snow they weren't good. Debating between the DWS and the TripleTred.

Looked on Tirerack, I think the TripleTreds are new in the stock size (235/45/17), have had them on other cards and the they were good. But, these are classified as "Passenger All Season" tires, where as the DWS are Ultra High Performance All-Season.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

So what is the ideal size for these? I have a type s with stock suspension and wheels, and I had assumed OEM size, but obviously wider looks better. Are there any downsides to going to a 245 or 255? From the last few posts, it sounds like a 40 sidewall might be shorter than ideal, especially if I'm not lowered.

leedogg

These have a soft sidewall which leads to performance limitations. imo lower profile versions of these tires with high PSI do a good job in countering some of the performance limitations. I have 245/35/19's and they corner pretty good. The ride is also considerably softer. The only downfall is that, as with all low profile tires, they are more vulnerable to blowouts.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

The OE Michelin 235 were 25.6" in height and as aftermarket 245/45 tires are 25.7" as compared to the aftermarket 235 at 25.3", so go with a 245/45-17 size as replacement on the TL/TLS. A wider size e.g. 245 is only a number as the actual tread width varies greatly between manufacturers. You'll find most all tires in a 245 size are wider than the DWS and only a couple that are the same size or smaller. Example, if my memory is correct, I believe the 245 DWS is only 8.3", with Kumho 4x 9.1" and the Bridgestone 760 9.0" and others 8.5"+. Naturally a personal preference, so choose wisely.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Wow, thanks for all the info, thats interesting. In that case, I think I will try to order the 245 45 17, if I can get them that is. I'm actually going to be going through a Continental employee, so maybe that will help. Thanks again!

And one more question - The 245 45 17 seems to be a good fit. Would the 255 work as well? From a quick look at Discount tire, it looks like the 255 45 17 is easily available, whereas the 245 is special order and you need to call for availability. Given just the choices of 235 or 255, which would be preferred?

TecSavi

Turbonut - I stand corrected on the size difference. I think the 45 sidewall gets you closer to OEM size but still it's a little smaller. I was looking more for cornering performance than looks with the wheel gap. I plan on lowering with coilovers in the spring so that will be a non-issue.

OP- One thing to consider is the closer to OEM treadwidth you have the better you will do in the snow. A wide tire has to push more snow out of the way and you get less traction. A 255 Conti looks nice and fat on these cars but you would have more issues with traction in snow than with a narrower tire.

I live in an area where snow isnt usually that bad so I compromised. I got a wider tire for dry and wet performance while still getting some grip if I drive in a light snow. The Conti's are also a 50,000 mile tire which is a bonus. Plus I don't have a dedicated set of rims for the winter so this set is for year round. Once I get new rims the stockies will get dedicated snow tires.

Basically you need to look at what is important to you and make a decision based on your own personal needs.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If not performance oriented or just want replacement tires, I'd go with the smaller 235/45-17 ($130) as the 255/45 ($175) would be around 26" tall and the tire width (cross-section) about 6" wider than a 245 and with a load capacity of 98 makes it a pretty beefy tire that may create a harsh ride. I would believe they would work, but not certain as to the looks as I've never seen a 255/45 on the TL as they may look like balloons and don't think the $45 more per tire would be justified as it would now be approaching the Michelin territory.

As far as skinny tires in the snow, I have a completely different opinion, but have stated my thoughts previously.

Bottom line, get the 235/45-17 DWS or jump to another brand 245/45-17.

KJ TL-S

iTrader: (9)

Thanks Turbo. I think i'll try to get the 245s, but if they aren't available I'll just stick to the 235s which should be just fine.

avs007

I've used the triple-tred, but it was for my Jeep. (Fortera Triple-Tread). Those tires are awesome in the snow, as I took them in 15+ inches of snow, including up our hill...

I don't think you can get the Assurance Triple-Tread on the TL, becuase I think they are only S or H speed rated. Many shops will not install tires with a lower speed rating than OEM.

But like I was saying earlier, I had two sets of DWS on my TL, and I took it in the same snow storm as the jeep, and they did great... Made it up our hill when there was about 6-8" of snow without any problems. Other people were sliding and getting stuck...

And FWIW, I had the Bridgestone 960AS before I got the DWS... I definitely like the DWS better... I would stick with the DWS on your TL, becuase it will have orders of magnitude better dry grip than the triple-tread... Many people say they don't care for performance tires, but I always tell them performance tires aren't always about spirited driving... Grip is great for acceleration, but it is also great when you have to slam on your brakes, or make an emergency lane change maneuver.

My dad has the same car with the same engine as my other car. My car has Ultra High Performance tires, his has the OEM tires. We have the same brake pads and calipers as I did his brakes for him... When you slam on the brakes in my car, you get thrown into your seat-belt... On my dad's car, the car feels floaty when you slam on the brakes... I attribute that to the tires...

Brazz

Finally got Discount Tire to replace my DWS 245-45-17 with the 235’s since they came in first. First of all the 245’s handles curves much better and steering is more responsive. The 235’s aren’t bad the car drives like OEM of course which is fine. I think between the two sizes is a personal preference.
Oh, did I mention I have vibration again @70mph. I'm normally not a whiner just a guy that loves his car. It just irks me when what seems to be a simple task for professional tire people can’t get it right 4 times regardless if the TL's are more difficult to balance than a Ford. I really don’t want to go back to DT for a 5th or 6th time. Guess I will pay another shop to get it right. Thanks for the advice Turbonut!

Underdog unleashed

These are great tires! Extreamly quiet and awesome performance!

flyromeo3

i purchased a set of DWS a couple months ago and cannot say anything bad about them.

Regarding the soft sidewalls: unless your driving like michael andretti I can see why soft sidewalls wouldnt suit you.

I've taken the car up to 123mph with these tires at the track and did not experience any road noise. Maybe their first batch of tires werent designed properly?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to clear up a few items for the GY people:
The realitively new passenger triple tred in a 235/45-17 size is a V rated tire with a stout load rating of 97(XL), a different tread pattern than the old H,T rated GY triple tred, but quite costly at $200+ each. Although it is a larger tire than the 235 DWS (stands 25.4" in height with a 8.8" tread) and is probably more stable, the DWS comes in around $130 each. Actually the H/T rated triple treds don't even have a 235/45-17 size, but if they did, it is not illegal to have them installed on a vehicle that came equipped with a higher speed rated tire.

Can't reply to the characteristics of the GY V rated triple tred tires as I just don't have any experience with them, either personally or feedback from others, but I know that they aren't produced in a 245/45-17 size as the 235 is the largest size listed.

avs007

It's not a matter of legality, it's a matter of liability... Cars that come equipped with H rated tires have speed limiters at 126mph. Cars that come equipped with Z-rated tires usually have a speed limiter at 155mph, or are drag limited to some speed in between.

If a tire place installs an H-Rated tire onto a car that doesn't have a speed limiter at 126mph, there is a question of liability if the driver is a bone-head and exceeds the thermal limits of the tire. At least that's what the tire shop told me, as he said he knew of cases where tire shops were in deed found liable in some cases. It's the exact same logic why many tire shops refused to install Radial and Bias Ply tires on the same car, even if on different axles, and why some shops refuse to mix tire types, (front axle with Peformance All Season, rear axle with Ultra High Performance All Season, etc). And why some shops refuse to mix Summers with All Seasons, etc.


As far as V-Rated tires... They handle like crap compared to Z-rated tires. At least in my experience. And I'm speaking from example, as I have used the same tire in a V and Z rating before... Ok, maybe crap is the wrong word, but they definately had a MUCH mushier feel in the corners.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

The shop bears no liability and a V rated that handles like crap is due to an inexpensive poorly designed tire, or poor suspension components. Similar to the DWS handling, and look at that tire rating...........W. Enough said.

avs007

BS.

I just said that shops have been found liable. If you think the shop will never bear the liability, then please explain why McDonalds was liable when a lady spilled hot coffee on herself? (And no, that wasn't a frivolous case, we actually studied that case in law school my freshmen year) By the way, not saying the shop is always liable, just saying that many shops don't want to "risk it"...

Also, a big part of a tires speed rating, is the thermal characteristics of the sidewall. More flex, generates more heat. This is why higher speed rated tires tend to have stiffer sidewalls. This has an impact on lateral stability. This is most likely why when all else being equal, a Z rated tire will have better lateral stability than a V rated tire. (and I did say I compared two of the same tires with different speed ratings before).

But if you're going to argue that a tire that does is marked as "All Season", by a company that markets other tires with categories as "Performance All Season", "High Performance All Season", and "Ultra High Performance All Season", is going to have just as good dry/wet performance as another tire that is marked as "Ultra High Performance All SEason", that was ranked #1 against Goodyear's own Ultra High Performance tires, than be my guest.

I've also have driven the DWS along with other tires from the same category from Michelin, GoodYear, Yokohama, and Bridgestone, on the same cars. The DWS are perfectly fine. The RE960AS has a much stiffer sidewall than the so called soft-sidewalls of the DWS, but the DWS actually have better lateral grip than the RE960AS in my experience... And both are bested by the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus, but that's a different thread...

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I'll be picking mine up and getting an alignment either tomorrow or Monday. I see people are having issues with vibrations. As far as alignment specs, is there a certain range of error thats okay for an alignment. I'm going to ask to see the specs when they're done to make sure

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

all toe measurements at zero. its the only thing adjustable on the car as far as alignments are concerned, unless you have a kit. if the tire shop has road force balancing....do that instead of the dynamic balance. save yourself any possible headache of vibrations afterwards.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

How about quoting the case as I'd certainly be interested in adding that to the portfolio for future reference. Quite an analogy, excessively hot water compared to a speed rated tire, and yes, I'm aware of the case brought forth as the corporation's policy was to serve hot liquids in the 180 to 190 degree range and that was deemed extreme.

Back to the tires. If you drove a car equipped with a DWS and found it perfect, then you must be just a daily driver. Those tires are about the softest sidewall I've ever seen in a W rated tire and many, many performance oriented people have voiced their disapproval with the lateral stability especially on turns. People on this Forum have stated as much, but for the DD they are fine. You can take the DWS and literally turn it inside out by pushing downward on the tread where most UHP tires have so much resistance in the carcass the tread barely buckles and the BS 960AS is just another also ran tire with a narrow tread.

I've voiced my opinion previously so no reason to continue to beat a dead horse, but I will look forward to the case documentation.

avs007

Quit being so nitpicky. I wasn't taking a position one way or the other. I was explaining the rationale of tire shops. You can argue until you are blue in the face that a tire shop will not have any liability, I am simply telling you that this is what tire shops believe.

If you don't believe me:

<Here is the opinion> of a member of the SAE Tire Society, who spent 30 years of his career designing, manufacturing, and testing tires, when asked if a tire shop can install lower than OEM speed rated tires:

and FWIW, in Europe, it is actually illegal to install tires with a lower speed rating than OEM. I know this isn't Europe, but you have to understand that there must have been a reason to make that law over there.

I'm NOT trying to argue the merits of this argument, I'm just stating the opinion of the tire installers. I have seen it myself, as I have been told the same story as above when trying to get tires mounted. I even was given a similar run around by a few tire shops when I tried to bring tires I bought from tire rack, as they refused to install the tire claiming that because of liability, they can only install tires that they acquired. They claimed it was part of the terms of their insurance provider. And if you read my original post, I said there was a question of liability, not a certainty of liability. I was just saying that many tire shops don't want to take a risk in finding out the answer to that question....

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I certainly wasn’t trying to be childish in my reply, but if you had stated that the tire shops believed there may be liability it would have been a dead issue, but I read your reply to indicate that there was litigation and the tire shop was found to be at fault:


Your correct, this isn’t Europe, and speaking of Europe, they also have a time limit as to when a new tire can sold, but the good old USA doesn’t, so neither applies on this side of the water.

Seems as though Discount Tire agrees:
Consider Performance and Speed Ratings
In the US you can buy a lower (and less expensive) speed rated tire of the same size.

I’d be more concerned with the load rating as opposed to the speed rating.

That opinion is not challenged as I know Costco won’t install a tire with a lesser speed rating, but it certainly doesn’t indicate anyone has or would be found liable for doing so. One could purchase tires, take them loose into a shop, have them mounted and balanced, take them home and do an install, drive the vehicle, have a failure and sue the shop for not checking the vehicle application.
Frivulous lawsuits are the foundation of the US, so would a shop or plantiff win? It would be interesting to see the outcome knowing that a plantiff would need to testify that they were exceeding the 130MPH limit on a H rated tire. I’m certain the courts would not be too sympathetic with the argument.

Don't know where the dividing line might be, so let's consider the TL with an OE W rated tire. With this scenario, one wouldn't be able to install any V or Z rated tire, of which there are dozens, and think about the thousands of snow tires installed that I'm certain very few, if any, are W rated.

That's enough for now.

avs007

You may not be trying to be childish, but your reading comprehension could use some work... You say that if I said that tire shops believed there may be liability it would be a dead issue.... Here is my original post:

That's probably why the law exists in Europe where you have things as the autobahn. But FWIW, in the US, it is not illegal to take your car to the track.. Plus in WA state, it is legal to exceed to the speed limit when passing a car on a two lane road while trying to pass the car. And places like Montana didn't use to have a speed limit before, during the daytime...

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

And don't forget this one:

I like the BS also, quite appropriate. As you have probably already surmised that when somebody calls my post BS we're in for a battle, however, at this juncture the battle is over.

avs007

I was looking at the bigger picture when I made that comment.
You were implying that shops would never bear liability, but I was restating what the tire shop told me. I later clarified that it doesn't matter what the facevalue of the liability argument seems, what only mattered was what the installer thinks, since the original idea was that some shops wouldn't install the tire for you.

The other part of that comment was specific to the tires. The original poster was asking if they would lose wet/dry traction by going to the TripleTread or the DWS. I was saying that it didn't make sense to argue that Goodyear's non performance marketed tire would get better dry/wet handling performance against an Ultra-High-Performance tire, when Goodyear sells their own Performance, HIgh Performance, and UltraHighPerformance tires, of which the DWS managed to outrank all of Goodyear's own UltraHighPerformance tires. (Tho I did explain that I thought the PIlot Sport A/S Plus had better handling)

I also clarified in my original post, that the handling of the V rated tire I had wasn't "crappy", as it was just mushier than the same tire in a Z rating on the same car when handling in the corners.

I could've sworn I said somewhere that the DWS did have soft sidewalls compared to other UHP W-rated tires, but said that it should still be stiffer than non performance non-z rated tires, because I said that the thermal characteristics of the sidewall play a big role in determining speed rating, becuase tirewall flex tends to generate heat, which a high speed rated tire cannot tolerate very much of.

rec

I had a set of DWS recently installed on my '06 TL and have about 1000 miles on them now. I've been pretty pleased. I'm running 35psi and have noticed no changes in gas mileage.

They were road force balanced and I've had no vibration or noise issues. Haven't had snow yet, but they are much better driving in wet weather than the Bridgestones they replaced.

Only issue is a slight drift to the right on pretty much all roads. I'd noticed this once in a while in the car with the old tires but it seemed to be road location specific instead of all the time. It's subtle but annoying so I went back to the place I bought the tires.

Tire dealer is suggesting an alignment first, although I think the Acura dealer did an alignment back in the spring. Plan on having them check it when I go in for some other service this month and if I still get the drift, I'll be back at the tire dealer.

nfnsquared

The would be hearsay. ("information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience").

If I had a dollar for every hearsay statement made by members of this forum, I'd be a thousandaire. This forum seems to have a serious case of the hearsay virus spreading among members.

Do you have anything more than hearsay to share with us?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Make certain that the tires are mounted the correct way and if so, switch the 2 front tires side to side to see of any difference. If a tire pull, you'll then notice the car drifting left. There have been ia few instances documented on the Forum where the DWS has caused a drift/pull, tire exchanged then fine.

avs007

Yes, I know the part specifically about the court case was hearsay, but that's not what I was trying to argue. I was arguing that many tireshops are worried about liability, and as a result will not install particular tires, or mix other kinds of tires. That part is not hearsay... Some of these installers don't want to take risks regardless. Turbonut and I were just talking past each other, as he thought I was claiming there would be liability, and I thought he was saying that tireshops would all gladly install whatever tire because there is no liability issue. I respect his opionion, and he acknowledges that some tire shops don't want to install particular tires or mix types, etc.

But anyways, in regards to the pulling... Try getting it aligned if swapping tires doesn't work, even if you had it aligned in the spring. I had to get our TL aligned twice in one year, and both times the Acura dealer showed me the tech writeup that showed the alignment was out of whack on one of the wheels. You drive over a lot of speed bumps?

nj2pa2nc

I am also that way-check the pressure often-I also get the tires balanced when they are rotated. Makes the tires last longer. Had originally planned to sell my tsx in 2010 but changed my mind-no red with MT. If I had known that I would have bought Michelin tires-They might be more expensive but they are worth it.

Brazz

Is it possible that the installers may have bent my rim on my TL?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Depending on the equipment used, there is a possibility of the installer bending a wheel.

xpressobeans

Hey there,
Needing to get new tires when the TL comes outta hibernation on the spring but want to find out what to get. Currently have the stock size on her with BFG's KDWS and they have been OK but wore out so quick. I have been reading about the Conti DWS and changing the size.. What exactly does a 255/40/17 look like? Will it rub? Or should i stick with a 245/45/17? I had a Car with the 255/s before and I like the fatness of them but will it be ok on a TL? Thoughts? suggestions? Minneapolis driver here.

Brazz

Got my Conti-DWS balanced to my satisfaction from Discount Tire. After 4 visits to DT one visit to Acura, and a second tire replacement with a Road Force Balance no vibration. Thanks to all reading my frustrations.

JD TL-S

iTrader: (1)

Great to hear

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

You seem to be the only one who has them for aftermarket wheels. I need an all year round tire, right now I have Falken fk452s run down to the indicators. You like the DWS that much? And how much did you purchase them if you dont mind me asking? Thanks!

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

i have the DWS on aftermarket 18 inch rims, but are OEM specs in terms of tire size. i run my tires about 2-3 psi over OEM. the response and feel are much better (to my liking). when they are at OEM spec the response and feel are mushy to me. i've had them on for a year and 6k+ miles. so i'm not sure what your point is about aftermarket wheels though.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Same question here. I know that there are a couple other guys using the DWS or the DW on aftermarket wheels.

The extra PSI's also really help with flat spotting.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

except if the car sits for like a week, but they iron themselves out nicely after a couple of miles. so biggie for me. usually if the car gets driven everyday, i dont' notice it if anything at all.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I just meant in terms of a bigger size - like on 19in wheels, etc. There's less sidewall and people said the sidewall on these are softer. I've bent a wheel or two on my FK452s, don't want my susceptibility to be even worse on these.

Most people are using these as OEM replacements, was looking for input of ride, noise, etc when it's a version with less sidewall.