Anthracite2005

After extensive review, I just picked up a set of ExtremeContact DWS's from DiscountTire and had them mounted today. After only several miles of driving, I noticed pulling to the right between 20-40 mph. I have not gone on the highway, so I cannot comment on that yet. The car was just driven 160 miles on the highway, with no pulling what so ever. I am going back to DiscountTire tomorrow to have them check it out, maybe do a rebalance. I also noticed that Discount uses sticky weights, as opposed to clip on's. Is this standard operating procedure for Discount and/or the TL? Follow up coming tomorrow.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Normally stickies in the middle of the wheel and clip on weights on the inside of the wheel.

VQPower37

After getting my extremecontacts mounted i have a slight pull to the right as well and its been going on for about the last 8k miles ... however the tires don't show any uneven wear which was surprising.

i think sometimes i am over critical when it comes to my car and forget to take the crown of the road and such into account. if everything is within alignment spec and you have no bent suspension components you should be fine.

x2 with what turbonut said about the weights ... clips stay on the inner lip of the wheel and stickies you should be able to see in the center are of your wheels when you look through the spokes. Getting the goo off from the old weights is a nightmare though, and takes a lot of elbow grease.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

http://www.autogeek.net/3m-adhesive-remover-32.html

Deep n TX

What size are the tires? OEM specs? Im thinking about 255/40/17 with this brand myself.

VQPower37

they are great tires if u r considering it i would say pull the trigger you cannot get a better all season tire IMO

Anthracite2005

So, the car went back to DiscountTire in the Morning, and after switching the tire around and driving it, it turned out to be a radial pull. The tire was replaced and the pulling was eliminated!

But a new problem has arisen.....vibration. I was driving back to school and I noticed that there was some vibration at speed. I pulled off at a rest area to take a leak, and while I was there I checked all the tires. I noticed that some of the rims had the sticky weight backing, but not weights. I am not sure if this is a result of Discount re-balancing them in the morning, or if I lost some on the drive down. There is no DiscountTire in Champaign, IL so I might have to drive a little ways to get them rebalanced.

From what I read on this and other forums, vibration seems to be a recurrent problem with these tires. Some people suggested getting them road force balanced solves this problem, and I will try to have this next time. Does anyone know if they have a lifetime road force balancing? I do not want to have to pay each time I have the tires rebalanced.

Other than this problem, the tires were very quiet. The roads were clear, so no snow or rain performance tests yet.

pttl

I bought mine and had them installed at Sears. No vibration at all.

chasingthecool

i just got these tires on friday. the vibration comes from the steering wheel right? how do i fix this?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If you notice stick on weights but no clip on weights, or vice versa, it's possible that the wheel didn't need any weights in that area. Highly unusual, but there have been times that a tire/wheel assembly was perfect and no weights required.

Vibration after tire installation in the upper range 60-80 is almost always a balancing problem. The TL assemblies are not the easiest to balance perfectly on certain equipment.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I wanted to add, that after adding the weights to the wheel in the designated areas, the operator will probably spin the assembly once again to be certain balance is correct. When the assembly shows no weights required, have the operator loosen the lock and turn the wheel 180 degrees then spin again. If in balance fine, but if out, machine or hub center out. Have needed to use a balancer adapter that is bolted to the wheel through the lug holes as this eliminates the possibility of a hub bore problem.

chasingthecool

the vibration comes from the steering wheel. thats how you know if they didn't balance it right correct?

pttl

^
Yes if the imbalanced tire is on the front of the car. Just take the car back to the place who installed the tire, tell them the symptoms, and have them check and re-balance the tires.

nfnsquared

Out of over 500 posts in the other thread, you're the only one I recall complaining of vibration from these tires.

It's not the tires, it's the balance job. As noted earlier, the TL stock TL wheels are not the easiest to balance. Just take it back and have them re-balance...

nfnsquared

Take it back to the tire shop and have them re-balance the wheels. If that doesn't fix it, it is possible that you might have a defective/malformed tire.

Anthracite2005

So, I have had my Conti's for 6 months, and they have had more problems than I expected. The vibration issue I was talking about about, went away after some driving. They had been performing fine since, but when I went in for a rotation and balance, the technician mad a startling discovery. He asked me if I was way overdue for a rotation, I said no it has only been 5000 miles and the tires were new. We'll there was significant cupping on the rear tires, and the tech speculated that the rear shocks were toast.

I went to Acura and they looked at it and found no issues with the shocks, but thought maybe the rear alignment was off. This was not the dealership that I bought the car from, and they wanted to charge me something around $150 for an alignment. So I declined and took it to firestone where I could get a lifetime alignment for the same price. The alignment was almost perfect, so I took it back to the dealer which I bought it from, and the experience was much different. They were much more willing to help, but also found nothing wrong with the suspension. They did another alignment, and there numbers were different than firestone's

With no idea what actually caused my tires to cup, I took it back to discount, and they agreed to replace the tires as defective. After this (about 1 month later), I noticed a slight pulling to the right. So I took it to firestone last week for another alignment, it was off right. Great! I thought this would fix it, WRONG! It was worse than before

Not sure how this could be, I took it back to discount and they swapped the front tires left to right. Its much better now, but this is a dead give-a-way of another radial pull..............

I would like to go back to discount and get the bad tire replaced, but everything is pretty good right now and don't want to further worsen the problem. Ideas?? Also, has anyone else had these kind of problems with there TL and/or these tires?

Thanks for the input!

john_wrap

There are a lot of incorrect statements made above about tire balancing. I worked at discount tire for 3 years in college and am well versed in the subject of tire balancing. First off, there are two kinds of balancing: static & dynamic. Don’t use those terms in the literal sense (physics-wise) and think they non-motion & motion…this is not the case. Static balance is when they only put clip-on weight on the back lip (or tape weights on the back hub if no lip is available). Dynamic is when weight is applied to both the front & rear lip, or the front hub & rear lip, or if no lip is available—the front & rear hub of the wheel. You should never see just weight down the center of the wheel as this does nothing to counteract (i.e. offset) the axial forces caused by a rotating wheel and tire combo. I have an engineering degree, and I understand the physics behind tire balancing, and simply put--a tire/wheel cannot be truly balanced unless weight is applied to both the front & rear. I’m not sure what kind of wheels you have on your car, but I know the stock wheels on TL’s do not have a front lip, so toward the front of the wheel there should be tape weight. I believe there is a lip on the rear so there is likely a clip on weight used there. As someone stated, you should see weights on your wheels as it is very very uncommon to have a tire/wheel combo ‘zero out’ with no weight applied to it. On a side note…I have conti extreme dws and have had zero issues with them…and I have 245/30/20. It certainly is possible that you have a bad tire, and in that case discount tire will replace it at no cost…this is there policy. If you are having issues with vibration and they are telling you that your tires are balanced, then tell them you want them to do a ‘road force analysis’. It’s basically a machine that can essentially determine if you truly have a bad tire. It simulates a rolling condition on the road and will detect if there is excessive force required to offset any out of roundness in the tire. There are allowable values for these ‘forces’ and if they exceed this value, discount can deem the tire defective and should replace your tire free of charge.

Anthracite2005

John, I am also an mechanical engineer I inquired about road force balancing and they said it was $20 a wheel. I have the stock TL rims with 235/45/R17 tires on it. Would road force balancing detect radial pulls?

So if I go back and say that I have a radial pull, they should test for it and replace the tire in question? What did you do when someone came in suggesting they had a radial pull? Thanks for the info.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

unfortunately there are no places that RFB for life. its a pretty extensive process for the tech and the eqiupment is fairly expensive to absorb lifetime RFB (at this time). i had similar issues with my TL. the alignment was spot on but still had vibration and lateral pull issues. then coughed up money for RFB...fixed the pull, they had to turn one of the tires on the wheel 180 degrees and rebalance it which lessened the vibration. i later put on custom 5mm hubcentric and wheel centric spacers to replace the 5mm spacers i had up front to clear the brembos. no more vibrations, no more pulling. all is happy with the car. keep in mind also that the machines need to be calibrated regularly and if the shop isn't doing that....then that means false readings and more money from you bc of premature wear on tires and other parts. so....really it comes down to the tech and a well calibrated machine that will determine your best outcome for eliminating your cars issues.

i've had bad experiences with big box shops...so i (cough) go to the dealer (mine doesn't try to rip me off).

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Static is when the assembly is balanced without rotation e.g. bubble balancer or for bikes the assembly is placed vertical and gravity will pull the heavy side down.
Here's a static wheel balancer:
http://www.mile-x.com/images/products/detail/M61.jpg

Dynamic wheel balancer:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...JeXz0gGplM3RAw

Dynamic is when the assembly is spun, and it certainly doesn't make it dynamic if the weights are placed in a certain location. The customer/wheel will determine the location of the weights and then the machine is set to calculate the amount of weight and where it is to be placed on the wheel. Example, chrome, polished, painted wheels with an outer lip, most don't want the weights showing on the outside so the machine is set to distribute the weights according, on the center of the wheel and inner lip.

Not certain as to what you're stating, but an assembly may need weight at any location to get it in balance, outside, center or inside.
Also, the center bore on some wheels are compromised so that an assembly can’t be balanced correctly or the machine is off. A good practice is to turn the wheel 180 degrees and rebalance, if in balance fine, but if additional weight is needed, something is wrong, machine or wheel. One can always use a wheel lug adapter, flange plate adapter, to balance the assembly to be certain it is centered. In fact, needed this adapter on the Hunter GSP when the TL's were done.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...BsWgtwfI7fX_Ag

john_wrap

^^the scenarios i discussed can be seen as a subdivision of literal dymanic (i.e. rotation) balancing. dynamic balancing when weight is only applied to the backside of the wheel is often termed 'static' balancing, but as i already eluded to, it is not a true static balance. clearly discussing balancing a wheel/tire assembly for a passenger car in a true static sense is absurd and therefore i did not think i had to directly state that. as for weight applied to the center of the wheel, this is not a valid means of balancing because it does nothing to counteract the moment created by a wheel/tire assembly rotating about a non-principal axis. a load (weights in this case) at an origin creates a zero moment (i.e. load x distance from ref point). in short, i would argue that you don't truly know what you're talking about...but that's just my opinion

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If it's not a true static balance then I guess your statement is far from correct.

Why is it absurd, as some shops still have static balancers, so I guess for us uneducated you'd need to clarify this as not everyone has a new car, nor needs to use a Hunter GSP?

That certainly is your opinion, but must ask you a question then as I'm eager to learn. Why would a balancing machine then dictate that weights be placed in the center of the wheel if it does nothing to correct an out of balance condition? You even mentioned "TL’s do not have a front lip, so toward the front of the wheel there should be tape weight" and using that scenario on our '08 knock around car with the factory chrome wheels, puts the tape weights directly in the center of the wheel. The wheels are 6" wide and the tape weight is 3 1/4" from the outer part of the wheel and deduct maybe 1/4" for the lip, the weights are dead center. I guess this will be another discussion for the engineering group to decide how the assembly can be balanced with the weights in the center of the wheel.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Seems like you are having the same problems I had with the DWS. Great tire for traction, but I had a lot of issues with noise and vibration. I would get the tires balanced on a Tuesday and would feel good for a day and then they would seem out again. I had them balanced 3 times in a week and all 3 times they needed weight.

I was able to get rid of them and now I have Michelins. They are quieter but I still have some mild vibration over 70 mph. It's annoying. I have had the car checked at two dealerships and a tire shop and it all checks out good.

I think the stock wheels are really tough to get perfectly balanced.

woow14623

OK....I have the same issue as you. Did 4 wheel balances. from 3 places. 1 road force. 1 alignment. Nothing fixed. Now recently I went to the dealer again and they found out it is 2 of the tires I have need to be replaced. So got it replaced by the tire place. Now I have 2 brand new DSW's on my rear. Guess what the tire shop replaced them but they took me inside the shop and showed.....that it is the wheels which is having the issue. There are slight bends which making the tires to give a hop and wobble effect which caused dumb asses to balance the tires.

So these places they do not care they just balance and stick weights and assume OK all set but never check the rims. I felt the same when ever they do a balance wow it is gone and it feel great but I assume it is in our head and maybe it is because they tight things and feel that in the steering wheel which last for few days.

You should go check your rims....your vibration might be coming from there.....mind you.....I am not super car maintenance guy.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Interesting. Just another thread about DWS' I've been looking at.

I'm planning on get a new set of tires some time soon, but I like more of a road feel when I'm driving and I don't need quiet tires, so I'm not sure about the DWS' for me.. We did get a lot of snow/ice here last winter but I don't expect that to happen again or that much this year, but my tires actually worked just fine for the most part on them.

I have General Exclaim UHPs now and was thinking of getting the new General Altimax or G-Max, but I haven't found many reviews on those yet.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

They don't make an Altimax in a W-rating and the G-Max are not yet made for the TL size. You may have to wait a couple months.

The UHP's are all but gone.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If you want the GMax, get it in 245/45-17.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Oh. Interesting...

04TLVTEC

I just bought DWS' a few weeks ago and I'm waiting for the August heat to subside before having them installed, I'm hoping I don't have these issues with them as they seem like a great tire and I do prefer traction over all else.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

They have the GMax in 235/45ZR17.


I thought 245/45-17 was the stock tire for base TL's anyways? Or am I wrong?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I see that they do, but the OE Michelin is a large diameter 235/45-17 and just about the same diamter as the 245/45-17. Tire Rack has the 235/45-17 and the 245/45-17 listed for the same price, $124 each, good deal on teh 245.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

I wonder if the 245/45-17's are off of national backorder yet???

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Regarding the 245's over the 235's, I'm running '04 stockie's with no drop. Would there be any rubbing? Basically from what I heard they are 3/8" wider... so any advantage or disadvantage of one over the other?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

No problems. Need to look at the specs, rather than a general comparison of sizes.

The OE Michelin is not only a tall 235, coming in at 25.6", it is also has the largest section width of 9.6". If you check the specs, you'll find that a 245 DWS or Michelin Pilot Sport both have the same section width of the "smaller" 235 OE Michelin, 9.6".

In this example the section width would be the same and the tire diameter of the 245 would be <.1" taller when new.
Stick with a 245.

OnefastTL448

iTrader: (1)

So what are you guys seeing as the best stock replacement?

Also are you going for the 245-45-17

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

^ It seems like a lot of people like the Conti DWS'


(BTW I didn't mean to hijack thread from OP, technically we are still on topic )


So wouldn't 245's on stock wheels considered to be 'stretched'? Hopefully turbonut can chime in here..

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I'l chime in as my preference and recommendation is to use a 245/45-17 as a replacement. A stretched tire is one that is too narrow for a particular wheel width, but in this case, the 235/45-17 is OE on a 8" wheel, so the 245 can't be a stretched tire. It's possible you may be thinking that the tire size is too large for a 8" wheel width, but the 245/45-17 is to be mounted on widths 7"-9.5", depending on the particular tire. When I say tire dependent, most 7.5"-9", some 7"-9", a few 8"-9.5", but all will be a proper fit on an 8" wide TL wheel.

packohotdogs

Totally agree!!! I got about 2K miles on my set in 245/40R18. Just love em!!!

Are yours still as quiet as day 1?

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

The first week and half on them I hated them because I had a dysfunctional tire and it was massively pulling my car hard to one side. After I got that tire replaced, it was perfect and drove straight as an arrow.

The grip in the dry is great. But the softer sidewalls are noticeable when cornering. I increased the psi to 35 all around and it is much better.

As far as 'quietness' of the tires, I don't notice anything different from my previous tires. But they certainly aren't loud..

I finally got to drive in the wet with them this past weekend. They grip great with no feeling of possible hydroplaning. I was driving on the highway while it had been raining for the past 3 hours and still was raining and was able to confidently go 70mph while all the other cars had to slow to 55 etc.

Other than the bad tire I had (which I heard isn't too uncommon for the DWS), I love the tires.



Kind of related, I've been looking at people's tires while walking by their cars or sitting next to them at a light and noticed quite a bit of Lexus', Mercedes' and Bimmers with the DW and DWS'. Just sayin..

flyromeo3

i just placed mine on this past weekend. Drove up to montreal for the night and returned the following morning.

no tire noise, no pulling. Matter of fact, I can feel my car float a bit more since im not focused on my shitty ( hankooks) tires anymore.


on a side note...what are you guys paying for all 4 tires?
I paid 716.00 but I get a "magellion GPS 2305 " which I'll give to my mom or dad for them to use.