nfnsquared

Thanks for the update. I'm just waiting for them to be in stock again. Not available until Jun 18

drjoe

yeah, me too. no change in mileage, good traction up and down the canyon curves, and super grippie in the rain. definitely happy with my purchase.

eatdust

I am thinking about the conti's but I am curious where you guys have done the installations and for what price.

I am in Seattle and we get plenty of rain around here, so the continental's sound like a very good option.

Thanks in advance

nfnsquared

My local SEARS will order them for me, matching Tirerack.com's price, and mount/balance all 4 for about $40.

eatdust

Xcellent, thank you I will check with my local Sears

mc_holla

To all you with the DWS's, how are they holding up? I want to pull the trigger on these but am very hesitant to do so after hearing all of horror stories about the tires extremely soft sidewalls. I am looking for a tire that is very quiet and comfortable but able to hold up in the event that I decide to down-shift a few gears and go hard through some twists.

All relevant input would be appreciated.

PS. The other tires i'm considering are Kumho ASX's, Bridestone RE760s and 960s and PZero's.

Thanks,
Marlon

clint999

Awesome thanks

nfnsquared

Horror stories? Really? I haven't seen any Horror Stories. I've seen comments about the side wall being softer than preferred and I've seen comments about less than summer tire performance, but I'd expect that from an all season tire.

mc_holla

Ok. I might have been exaggerating a little but i have heard some stuff. On tirerack's site I heard about stories of these tiring feeling like they wanna give out when make a sharp spirited turn or changing lanes quickly. Do mostly highway driving and want some that will last and perform well during that time.

nfnsquared

Then I'd think these tires will be fine for you. As long as you don't expect to max perform every turn, these tires will be good for anyone needing A/S. Performance is necessarily sacrificed for the excellent ride and quietness of these tires.

I hope Continental is not changing the tire design. I don't understand why they've been on back order for almost 6 months now.

avs007

I have the DWS in 245/35-19, and they are fine in the curves. (Both the wife and I are pretty spirited drivers)

They handle better than the 235/45-17 RE960AS Bridgestones I had on there before, and according to the tire guy, the RE960AS have the stiffest sidewalls in its class outside of runflats.

I was actually pretty impressed with them... Almost to the point where I want to dismount the RE960AS on my G coupe, and get either the DWS or the Pilot Sport A/S Plus.

ajs800

iTrader: (1)

i have gone through a michigan winter with mine and they performed great. They are also great in wet conditions. approx 14k right now and they still look like new!

gdcwatt

I am returning my 225/50-17 DWS tires under Continental's 60 day Free return program. The lack of dry grip is a problem.

I have an 06 TSX 6MT, and like this size tire; the DWS tires are recent replacements for the [4 lb each] heavier, but same size Yoko Advan S4. I guess the DWS wet weather grip is OK, but I've been hydroplaning a few times now, at 50-65 mph, on secondary highways. I can live with that.

What really bothers me about the DWS is the lack of dry cornering grip, and the inevitable squealing around what are now low-speed corners, and the slow turn-in, and understeer everywhere. They do ride nicely, though. Over about 3,000 miles I've tried the VSA on and off, and adjusted the front PSI from 32 to 38, and concluded that if I keep these tires then I need a Progress RSB - ASAP.

Initially I'd read a lot about the DWS' soft sidewalls, but on long sweeping corners, once the tires have taken a set and there's no need for more throttle or steering corrections, it becomes apparent that it's not the sidewalls that are the problem but just a lack of grip. Is it the compound? I've been thinking that maybe the car needs an alignment, but the old S4 tires had perfectly uniform 5/32" of thread across the face of each tire, and the difference in grip bewteen those S4's and the DWS is frightening, and dangerous...well, in the dry, anyhow.

avs007

Sometimes I wonder if we are talking about the same tires. I take the 35mph curves by our house at 70mph with the DWS in our TL all the time, and they tires don't squeel at all. That's pretty good considering that I've ended up power-sliding that curve at 80mph when I had Michelin Pilot Sport Summer tires on that same curve. I also take the 25 mph 360-degree on-ramp at 50mph, and same thing.

It also rains quite heavily in the Pacific NW, especially this month, as we broke the all time record for rainfall for the month of june, after just the first 4 days or something like that, and I've never really hydroplaned with them, and I usually stay at ~75mph on the freeways, and 60+ on the secondary highways.

Looking at the numbers on Tire Rack, the Advans post up better dry numbers than the DWS, but they are near identicle to the numbers posted by the RE960, and I had those tires on my car previously. While the advans may post better results than the DWS according to tire-rack, I wouldn't call the DWS's performance frightening. Maybe your suspension is going out or something? Are the DWS you have z-rated? Only reason I ask, is because when I had ContiExtremeContact tires on my other car, the stock 225 sized tires were actually V-rated, and I had to plus-size the tire to get them Z-rated. Either that, or the DWS just perform waaay better when you have a 35 series sidewall vs a 50 series...

smarty666

The only thing that has scared me away from the ADVAN S4s is that they do not have any tire warranty. I have a policy, I don't get a tire that does not have a warranty. If something happens, despite good/proper tire maintenance, I like having the warranty to fall back on because when it comes to tires, Acura has nothing to do with that.

mc_holla

You made some good points. I'm thinking that if the sidewalls are softer than other tires, then the taller the side wall = the more performance is affected by it. May look into getting these in the (235/245)/40/17 size then.

gdcwatt

The 225/50-17 DWS is ZR rated.

And I've thought about that sidewall height too: using the nominal values (only for comparison), sidewall height of the 225/50 is 112.5mm, and the 245/35 is 85.8mm - that's quite a difference.

Then I put a ruler against the ground and eyeballed a measured up to the bottom of the rim, and saw about 75mm; this contrasts with a measurement of about 95mm from the top of the rim to the top of the tire: I guess that means that the height of the bead is about 26.7mm, and that last dimension is probably the same for the 225/50 and the 245/35.

So 85.8 - 26.7 gives a wild estimate of the 245/35 sidewall height at about 59.1mm vs 75mm for the 225/50. That 16mm difference is about 5/8". Finally, I have 7" wide rims. I believe the tirerack.com test used 225/45-17 tires on 8" wide rims, on their BMW's.

An on those Advan S4's, they only worked for me in the dry, and the car could not be driven in any amount of snow with them, VSA on or off. And they're heavy.

gdcwatt

Continental's small print says I can return the DWS for their ContiProContact AND $250; the dealer said he'd install and balance them for nothing.

I'd rather have a Progress RSB, instead, and then an alignment, and will report back later.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

All tires come with a manufacturer's warranty, Yokohama included:
http://www.yokohamatire.com/customer...passanger.aspx

Don't purchase the S.4 when even a modernly cold climate is encountered as the flat spotting is horrific. The tires are fantastic once they heat up and the nylon takes shape, but sometimes that can be 10-15 miles and annoying as all get out.

smarty666

Turbo, that link you gave only lists passenger, light truck, and spare tires as under warranty. The S4s are sport performance tires, does that warranty cover them as well because I don't see the word performance tires listed in that warranty. Just checking for your benefit since you have them.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....odel=ADVAN+S.4.

What I don't understand is, tirerack lists them has having no standard warranty in regards to treadlife. To me, thats just as bad as having no warranty since if your tires wear out at 15k miles for instance, they don't have a treadlife warranty thus they would not be responsible for that premature wear?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Althought the S.4 is a UHP tire, it is still classified as a passenger tire, so the manufacturer's warranty would apply. Wear warranty? The problem with any wear warranty is that they are prorated on the list price, not the price that one pays and with the millions of miles i've driven, never had a tread life warranty, or at least never used one, never needed one and I've had dozens of Michelin, some lasting over 100,000 miles. Take the Michelin Pilot A/S. They are warranted for 45,000 miles and will go well beyond that figure, but if it doesn't, you'll need:

1)The tires have been rotated and inspected by a participating Michelin® tire retailer every 7,500 miles, and the attached Mounting and Rotation Service Record has been fully completed and signed;
3) The completed Service Record form, Original Owner/Tire Installation Information form, and the Original Invoice are presented to a participating Michelin® tire retailer at the time of adjustment claim.

Not Covered:
1)Road hazard injury (e.g., a cut, snag, bruise, impact damage or puncture);
2)Incorrect mounting of the tire, tire/wheel imbalance or improper repair;
3)Misapplication, improper maintenance, racing, underinflation, overinflation or other abuse;
4)Uneven or rapid wear which is caused by mechanical irregularity in the vehicle such as wheel misalignment, (a measured tread difference of 2/32nds of an inch
or more across the tread on the same tire);
5)Accident, fire, chemical corrosion, tire alteration or vandalism;
6)Use in commercial applications for treadwear; by this warranty for 6 years;
7)Flat spotting caused by improper storage or brakelock;
8)The addition of liquid, solid or gaseous materials other than air, nitrogen or carbon dioxide (for example, waterbase sealers or balancing substances);
9)Ozone or weather checking;
10)Use of Michelin Self-Supporting Zero Pressure (ZP) tires without a proper operating TPMS.

Just purchase the tires you like and don't worry about the mileage warranty.

smarty666

Thanks for the clarifications as always!

avs007

It always helps to have a friendly installer... America's Tire Company keeps all invoices in the computer, so you don't need to "save" anything. You also don't need to have them sign off on anything to do the rotations. I've used the pro-rated warranty before through them, and never had to show proof that I had the tires rotated. (I rotate tires myself on my cars, so I don't have them do it, or sign anything) They said it's normally easy to tell just by looking at your tires to know if you did your end of the job. I even asked about what if my tires were staggered, like they are on my Infiniti. They said since my car came stock with staggered, they would not penalize me for not rotating my tires, and would still honor the treadlife warranty.



I bought tires with a treadlife warranty, because the first set of Pilot Sport A/S I bought went bald after 20,000 miles, and costs > $300/each in the size I needed. So treadlife warranty is important to me. The tires I have now, have a warranty. (Those Pilot Sport A/S didn't have a warranty, as the Plus version didn't exist yet). I don't necessarily care if the tires last 40,000 miles, but it's nice to know if they don't, I'll get some credits towards another tire. (See above reference about me exercising the warranty without having to jump through hoops)

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Prorated is usually on the current selling price which usually isn't a bargain, and the Pilot Sport A/S doesn't have a tread life warranty, but if you only got 20K out of the tires, something is definitely wrong with either the suspension or the driver, as they usually have around a 400 wear rating. Any tire that is driven and maintained correctly will usually exceed the manufacturer's tread life warranty. I've got 23K on the S.4's and they look like new, so they will be good for quite a while.
Now, on our RX-7 Turbo I've been through 3 sets of rear tires in 31,000 miles, but still have the same front tires. I really don't drive the car hard as I can't stand hammerimng the little rotary off the line, but will hit it once in a while when moving, but it's just the power that wears away the rubber, and the Continental Sport Contacts aren't cheap.

Good luck with the DWS, and you don't want to read about them when installed on a M3,or some other car that the driver is performance oriented. The Buick types (excluding the GN) have no problems with the DWS and think they are great.

nfnsquared

Hmmmm.....According to Tirerack.com reviews, the M3 guys love the tires (I've posted all M3 ratings and comments):

2001 M3 convertible-rating 7.57 (lowest M3 rating BTW):
"With winter nearly over, I didn't think I would get a chance to test this tires abilities in snow since the 'S' portion of DWS would be long gone by next winter. After an unexpected March snowfall yesterday, I was pleased to test these tires in a slushy mix of about two inches of freshly fallen snow. I've never felt more confident in snow on an All-Season tire. Particularly considering this is a high powered sports car that should have been in the garage. Looking forward to also testing its dry capabilities in the mountains in the next few months."

1996 M3-rating 8.0:
I HAVE ALWAYS GOTTEN THROUGH THE WISCONSIN WINTERS WITH REGULAR RADIAL TIRES.SINCE BUYING MY BMW M3 I NEED MORE IN A TIRE.DID MY RESEARCH AND READ 100 REVIEWS FROM CURRENT OWNERS.SETTLED ON THE CONTI'S AND I LOVE THEM,SO FAR.THEY WERE COMPARABLE TO THE MICHELIN AND THE DUNLOP IN ALL PERFORMANCE CATEGORIES.THEY WERE ALSO CONSIDERABLY LESS EXPENSIVE.I KNOW YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR,BUT FOR MY DRIVING STYLE I COULDN'T JUSTIFY THE MONEY.THE BIGGEST NEGATIVE IN THE REVIEWS WAS LACK OF TURN IN RESPONSE.I ADJUSTED THE AIR PRESSURE ACCORDINGLY AND I'M PLEASED.I AM ANXIOUSLY AWAITING WARMER MONTHS FOR SOME SPIRITED DRIVING.TIME WILL TELL AS TO THE WEAR MILEAGE I WILL ATTAIN.I PREVIOUSLY HAD FALKEN 452'S ON.A STICKY SUMMER TIRE I ADMIT,BUT THEY GOT NOISY AFTER 10,000 MILES AND POOR IN THE SNOW,OH WELL,LIVE AND LEARN.MAYBE DOWN THE ROAD AFTER 4 OR 5 THOUSAND MILES AND THE FIRST ROTATION OF THE CONTI'S I WILL WRITE A FOLLOW UP FOR PROSPECTIVE BUYERS.SO FAR SO GOOD.

1998 M3, rating=8.3:
I was a little unsure of this tire because it's at such a lower price point than others in its class. However, I've been very satisfied so far. It grips very well in the dry and wet. For the price I don't think you can beat it. The ride is quiet, and the response is good. Would definitely recommend.

1999 M3, rating=8.86:
Purchased DWS after reading reviews, and the ability to shed water. I am more than pleased with the performance of this tire set. This is the most predictable tire I have ever driven. Breaking is excellent and wet traction is amazing. My MZ3 Coupe is set for Street/Track and corner balanced. Compared to Prx4 and AS2 these are a good step above, and a lot less money. In a recent weekend trip to the mountain twisties I threw the Coupe through corners at rates that we had never experienced before. Throughout the weekend I grew very confident taking turns at a much higher rate. For the first time I didnt feel the fear of the rear breaking loose in hard turns under acceleration. Later, in a large parking lot I took it to the edge and was thrilled with the result of the sliding turns, very perdictable, very controllable, both into, and out of a slide. Cant comment on tire wear because I probably used up a lot of tread as a result of driving style. With Coupe's and Roadsters hydroplane is a problem, these seem to evacuate very well new keeping you on the road.

2008 M3, rating-9.2:
I ordered these tires based on my past experience with the Conti Extreme Contacts on my E46 M3 which performed great in all weather conditions especially winter driving. I saw that Continental made the DWS to replace the Extreme Contacts. The DWS performance will not disappoint you. They performed as advertised. Especially in rain and snow. In the rain this tire performed like you were on dry pavement. During the past 24 hours we had heavy snow in the NorthEast and took my car out to see if this tire will be good in snow. With about 6 to 8 inches of snow on the road the car had traction and did not have any problems and I never got stuck. I am sold on the DWS and will use them in the future. Very happy with my purchase. Now I can drive my E90 M3 in all weather conditions!!!!

2006 M3, rating=9.3:
Excellent wet handling. Bring on the snow. If the wet traction is any indication, then snow traction should be very good. Tires are O.K. on dry roads and spin much more than my last set of Nittos. I expected a loss in dry traction but not as much as I have experienced. I did change more than just the tires as I went for smaller "extremely light" wheels (from 18" to 17") with a narrower stance from 10 inches to 9 inches. So there are more factors than just tires involved and certainly a lighter, smaller, narrower wheel and tires have contributed to less dry traction. Other point of note is the trememndous improvement in road noise - I can not hear the tire noise over the exhaust. This was not the case with the Nittos - possibly the noisiest tire I have ever owned (again, larger wheel size played a role). I will come back during the winter season and include ratings for snow traction as well as an overll opinion on treadwear. So far however, outside of a just O.K. looking side wall, the tires have exceeded expectations - especially when wet!

nfnsquared

^^^^ and the Corvette (lowest rating=9.38, 3 reviews) and Porsche (lowest rating=8.3, 6 reviews) guys seem to like them as well.

Same for Benz drivers (25 reviews, only 2 below 8.0, 2 between 8.0 and 8.74, 21 rating them 8.75 or higher, 16 of which rated at 9.0 or higher)...

avs007

Suspension was checked out, and was within spec. I was told this was a common problem for the pilot sports on the infiniti, as the softer center band wore excessively quickly compared to the rest of the tread, despite running at optimum tire pressure and alignment.

And the treadware rating is meaningless, as it is not standardized. It's only useful when comparing within same manufacturer, but in my experience, i've always gotten crappy mileage out of michelins on all my cars, even with high ratings, but am willing to give them another chance with the a/s plus.

But like I said, a friendly installer is key. An unfriendly one will prob hassle you.

They are performing fine for me. I think the drawbacks to the softer sidewalls are proportional to what aspect ratio you are running. My 35 series tires perform great, but I know folks running 50 series complain of sloppy handling.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Yea, reading those replies reminds me of reading the results after people use Seafoam. Reminds me of the guy that told everyone his car was wonderful, but after it was sold it was the the most troublesome car that he had ever owned. It truly is amazing that a tire can have diametrically opposed responses. Even one of the replies you supplied contained the following, "expected a loss in dry traction but not as much as I have experienced". Over on the M3 Forum, guys swear by them and others are very critical because of the lack of grip in the dry along with the soft sidewall. Even Elegant, on this Forum with the 235/35-19 DWS, stated that his only complaint is that due to thin sidewall, taking aggressive turns and handling is sacrificed. Time will tell.

smarty666

Yeah, my Serenity's, well at least the rear two are completely shot at 20k miles, and the fronts are uneven and at 6/32nds and I'm lucky if I got another 5-8k out of them at the rate they have been wearing.

What is so disappointing is, Michelin and Bridgestone are typically the most expensive tires and both these are and its just such a waste of money when you don't even get half the tread wear warranty out of them especially with how much they cost.

smarty666

Exactly, still waiting for the 20, 30, and 40k mile reviews for the DWSs before making any final judgements!

DMZ

Everyone seems to be overlooking the Conti DWS's tread wear rating of 540 compared to the Michelin's 500 meaning the Conti's should last a little bit longer. Also, according to owners' ratings on Tire Rack, a somewhat higher percentage of Conti DWS owners said they'd buy again versus the Michelin Man's A/S Plus. And considering the magnitude of the price difference, around $50 per tire, I think picking the DWS's are no brainer.
.
.

nfnsquared

Tread wear rating is manufacturer dependent. Unfortunately, you can't make a direct comparison between tread wear ratings between different manufacturers. The tread wear rating is based on a standard tire determined by each manufacturer. All we know is that the Conti DWS' last 5.4 times longer than the Continental standard tire and the 500's last 5 times longer than the Michelin standard tire.

What we don't know is how the two standard tires compared. This is one of the criticisms of the tread wear rating system as it stands. It's possible that the 500's will wear longer than the DWS' (if the Michelin standard tire has a higher tread wear base rating than the Continental standard tire).

Nevertheless, my DWS' are on order and supposedly will be here on 1 Aug...not holding my breath..

flash2021

pulled the trigger and ordered a set of the Conti DWS yesterday...on backorder until next week tho...hoping the good value pays off with a good tire! seems like the reviews are generally positive...thought about getting just the DW, as east texas doesn't get a lot of snow, but they are a few more bucks and the treadwear rating is less...oh well

omnuts

Just got a set of DWS installed at a local shop for 139 each (I over look to check locally), couldn't wait for online always back order or sold out.

mm492433

You Gotta weight your options about what you prefer. For example the Michelin tires do really well in wet and dry driving or normal everyday use but the Continentals do a couple of levels above the Michelin's in the snow so if your from a place that has to deal with bad weather i would go with the conti's. Although i do have the Michelin's on my s-type and they do give a great ride, just watch out for flats with the low-profile tires... get the extended warranty on them.

nycACURA

Hey whats up, Long time haven't seen you. Just got these tires also. Where did you get them for that price.

Esper.ice

I was lucky to get a set a couple of months ago. The Rep at Discount Tire told me they are in VERY high demand and the manufactures can't keep up.
I'm very pleased and impressed with the DWS's. I don't slide at all when taking sharp turns at higher than the posted speed limits. With VSA off they rarely slip under WoT and surprisingly torque steer is almost non existent as well.
These replaced my aging Toyo Versados which excel at sound reduction. Again I was surprised that despite the DWS's being higher performance tires and much stickier that they were almost as quiet.
I'll have to take a low res pic in order to upload just how plain and ugly the side wall is. I don't understand it, the other high performance continental tires have nifty looking side walls, some with checkered flags running around it. But the DWS are just ugly. MY Versados looked much nicer.

mc_holla

Glad to hear you like them. What size tires are you running?

berite100

just noticed a bulge on the side wall on two tires... i think i ran about 5k? less than 10k.
would this be covered under warranty?
its really annoying me....

berite100

woo hoo...just talked to the shop where i got them installed.. just said bring it in they will replace them.