When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
As I continue to become more mechanically inclined, I tend to find faint sounds and little things that I've never noticed before. I guess how it goes sometimes, huh? Unfortunately, diagnosing vibrations can be a royal pain sometimes, so I wanted to document my situation separately.
As of about a month ago, I have been experiencing vibrations in the 45-65 mph range. I can here a slight pulsating sound, but it is not the typical hum sound of a bad wheel bearing. It makes slight "whoop whoop whoop" sound which gets quicker as my speed increases. It's most noticeable right around 45 mph. Right away, my mind went to checking tires and balancing. My first plan of attack is to schedule an appointment with Discount Tire near my house to have a Road Force Balance completed on all four wheels. I'm hoping that it's just a re-balance and not a bent rim or anything more serious.
I did have my car jacked up last weekend and noticed some play in my front wheels at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock. I called my brother-in-law over and he says it looks like you have some play in the tie rods. I'm not sure if it's inner or outer. Personally, I've replaced wheel bearings on other vehicles, but I've never messed with tie rods, so this is new to me. My question is, if the balancing and tire testing comes back normal, could bad tie rods cause these slight vibrations and pulsating sounds? I'm sure they could, but I guess I"m more or less asking if anyone has experienced something similar or if they've been able to dial in their diagnosis?
Also, I haven't tested the motor mounts with a partner yet, but I did visually inspect them and I did not see any rips/cracks.
Anyways, I just wanted do document my findings here. As always, comments are welcomed!
are you getting any sort of odd tire wear? How are the lower control arm bushings looking? Last but not least, check for a nail in a tire that's hitting the road as you drive.
The wheel will move a little bit at the 3/9 clock position because of the rack. The rack gear will move a little bit. You need to tug on the actual outer tie-rod arm behind the wheel to make the right determination.
So I just got back from Discount Tire and received some bad news. The service manager told me that my rims are shot. What what?! He said that it looks like a few OEM lugs were used instead of the aftermarket conical lugs, which caused the circle openings on the rims to strip away.
I just checked myself and sure enough, he was right (OEM on left, Aftermarket 60 degree on right)
Crap... I didn't even notice that I mixed them up. Discount Tire wouldn't even proceed to work on the wheels at all because the damaged rims void any and all work performed. I switched 6 OEM lugs with the correct Aftermarket lugs and the wobbling still remains. I have 1 OEM lug on each of my rear wheels for the time being, because I don't have any more Aftermarket lugs right now.
Anyone have thoughts on this? If I buy 2 more lugs and the wobbling still remains, should I try a different tire shop and see if they can re-balance? Even then, if the wobbling still remains after re-balancing, I wont' know if it's the ruined rims or something else. Then I"m back to square one.
New lugs + re-balancing + new tires next spring = Worth it? Or should I just I just replace my rims altogether? Replacing everything would run about $1,000.
if the lugs used were incorrect take one off and look at the rim ASAP! It could be damaging the threads and you'll need new wheel studs. Solution might be new wheels and studs + lugs at the worst
What's been happening more than likely is the wheels have been rocking back and forth against the studs since the lugs have not kept them in the right place
Fortunately, I have a second car that I can use for the time being, so I'm not driving the TL right now. It's not worth any risk to me.
I will check the studs tonight. Let's hope this doesn't add salt to the wounds...
At this stage, it looks like I'll probably just replace the rims altogether. Now it's just a matter of if I want to do it now (with 2-3 months of driving left) or wait until next spring.
Last edited by wusty23jd; Aug 20, 2018 at 08:08 AM.
This has been delayed as I have been driving another car for the time being. I plan to remove the rims and check the lug studs this weekend. I'll take a few pictures and post them here.
My question is: Even if the lug studs "look" okay, I'm not sure how comfortable I feel with the uncertainty. Is there a go/no-go gauge for our OEM lug studs? If not, then I may just bring it to the dealer and have them look at the lug studs and check out the tie rods while I"m at it.
If the threads don't look damaged you're fine. No need to sweat the idea of bad studs if there is no physical damage. Do you have hub centric rings on the wheels? Couldn't hurt to get some correct lugs from autozone.
Cool, that's good to know about the lug studs. I'll cross my fingers that there's no damage. Like I said, I'll make effort to check them this weekend and take pictures. Tax season is ridiculously busy right now, so I don't have time
I can confirm that each rim has always been installed with hub centric rings. They came with the rims when I bought them and I have always used them.
I did replace all (except for 2) OEM lug nuts with the correct conical lug nuts. However, the vibrations remained. That makes me think that the rims are indeed damaged or the lug stud threads might be damaged.
The wheel must be bad if you are still getting vibrations. With 4 of 5 correct lugs the wheel is held correctly to the hub and there shouldn't be any issues with the lug nuts or studs. Are you lowered? New Axles? Intermediate Shaft Bearing play? Ball joints, tie rods?
The wheel must be bad if you are still getting vibrations. With 4 of 5 correct lugs the wheel is held correctly to the hub and there shouldn't be any issues with the lug nuts or studs. Are you lowered? New Axles? Intermediate Shaft Bearing play? Ball joints, tie rods?
My thoughts exactly. If you have proper hub-centric rings, the lugs in theory are not responsible for anything other than clamping it to the hub. The load is actually on the ring.
Alright, here are a few pictures of the lug studs. I just took off my front two wheels for a quick analysis. From what I can see, the studs look to be okay. I don't see any stripping or worn down threads.
Front Driver's Side
Front Passenger's Side
Here are a few pictures of the rims. It's very hard for me to determine if the rims are ruined, because all holes look the same.. Like I said, I had a few OEM lugs on each rim. I do not recall which holes they were, but I've taken my rims off a few times. It's very likely that the OEM lugs made their way around to each hole.
Lastly, I can't believe I didn't see this before, but I noticed the PSI on my driver's side rear tire was low. Lo and behold, it looks like I ran over nail like csmeance suggested. I can almost guarantee that's the reason for the "whoop whoop whoop" sounds.
if you answered this, sorry I missed it, but is your vibration always present, or does it get worse the more throttle you apply? mine had that vibration too, but it was while under throttle (not heavy, but just not coasting) if I got it up to say 55mph throttle down 50% maybe (so a bit faster than normal acceleration) it would shake, lift off completely and vibration stopped. In my case replacing the drive shafts cured it.
The vibrations were only present around 45mph. It did not get worse with more throttle. After replacing my rims, using the correct lug nuts, and using hub centric rings, the vibrations are completely gone
The vibrations were only present around 45mph. It did not get worse with more throttle. After replacing my rims, using the correct lug nuts, and using hub centric rings, the vibrations are completely gone
It's definitely nice to take a breath and realize that everything is working again. Unfortunately, this mistake caused three months of headaches, almost $2K for new rims and tires, and now it's snowing in Michigan, so I can't even enjoy my car anymore lol.
I guess you live and learn! I"m just glad that sites like this exist where we can share our experiences. Hopefully, someone can read this thread and can learn from my mistakes.
The vibrations were only present around 45mph. It did not get worse with more throttle. After replacing my rims, using the correct lug nuts, and using hub centric rings, the vibrations are completely gone
Yup. Had "wallered out" steel rims (old school car) and used a washer and reversed lug (open end) nut until I could afford to replace it (young and poor and only car).
These days old lug nuts go in the metal recycling bin.
