SandieD

The Acura dealer switched whatever was in my car before, to Honda Manual Trans Fluid and this actually made an immediate difference. The shifting is normal now, not Acura's "normal", but ours! I think the should create a service bulletin about this fix because Montclair Acura for one, was totally unaware.

SandieD

I just sent this email to my Acura dealer with the NHTSA in copy:
Luis,
Since you removed the factory fill yesterday and replaced it with Honda MTF, the shifting into 3rd gear problem that I experienced is gone! It doesn't pop out of 3rd when you first put it in and it doesn't have the crunch feeling, notchy shifting problem that it had before. As you know, many people have this same complaint as evidenced by a few examples below taken from the Acura TL car forum website. Your dealership as well as the customer service hotline that covers your dealership were unaware of the "fix in a bottle". Please forward my email to the customer service and techline rep so that your manual transmission car owners will have a better feeling about Acura cars and Acura service department knowledge and will know there is a solution to this problem.
I think that Acura should create a new Service Bulletin (in addition to #1205 available from the NHSTA). The new service bulletin should indicate that this condition that Acura considers "normal" though anyone that has driven manual transmission for years knows it is anything but, actually has a fix. That is, all an Acura dealer will need to do is replace the factory fill with Honda MTF or equal.
I have the NHSTA in copy because I know they will be interested.
Regards,
Sandra Desiderio


Originally Posted by Enjoy6MT
6MT team:
I have an '05 TL-6MT with 8500 miles. I have experienced the 3rd gear "notchy" shifting issue from day 1. It seems to have become worse over the last 8500 miles. I saw several posts in this forum and the GM fluid that seems to resolve the issue for some and the Honda fluid helping others as well. I have not tried either one yet and am planning to do it next week.

However, just like everyone else, it concerns me a lot that a car that costs 31K+ should not have such issues under 10K miles. All of us in the 6MT camp bought the car because we love stick shifts and this seems unacceptable to me. I am planning to print this whole series of posts and write a formal complaint to the Customer Service department of Acura. I doubt whether I will hear anything else other than "Contact your dealer" but I wish to officially notify them.

I could not ignore the fact that several of us who have faced this problem & written messages in this forum seem to be in the MD, PA, VA area. I cannot get an exact count but that is a rather alarming coincidence that all of us from these states have reported this issue. It could be a batch of transmissions that have this issue
TL/Manual Transmission/3rd gear

My '05 Manual Transmission TL has always had a slight "notch" in third gear. In other words, often when shifting into 3rd gear it does not quite go into gear. You have to push or take it out of gear and put it back in. I talked to the Acura dealer today - and he seemed to be very honest and forthright about the situation. He said that 7 other customers had also reported the problem to him - and that with all of them it was always 3rd gear. He also said that Acura had not published any official service bulletin on the matter. He said that for customers that reported the problem, at the current time, they are just replacing the transmission fluid and that seemed to fix the problem.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Thanks,

Kevin
So I brought my car into my dealer on Wednesday morning. I sat with my service manager and their head technician. I sat at his computer and we all read this thread together. The head tech (who was a really cool guy to start with) and I talked in great detail about what I was feeling and what was happening. He started to explain that it has a double syncro and thats what I could be feeling when I shift into third. So we talked about it for a while and he said "let me go ahead and take out the factory fill, run it through a strainer and see what I can come up with. He told me that 95% of the TL's that he gets in are Autos so this is really the first hes heard of this, but since reading the thread he realizes that Im not making this up. So he strained the fluid and put the Honda MTF in. He informed me that the factory fill is a mobil synthetic and usually good for a number of miles. I forget how long he said. So anyway, he test drove the car and I had told him to really get on it, he came back and told me everything was a-okay. He was also a bit immpressed with the CAI. Anyway Ive been driving like normal and it has been like a whole new world to me, really. There was once when I felt just a slight notch going into third but I can tell you without a doubt just getting the factory fill out helped me. He said that if I ever have the issue to let him know. I have his email. Im telling you, this is why I love this dealer, every single time I go in there this is the treatment I get. Just top of line treatment each and every time. I am a mechanic myself and they know that so its obvious to me that they were being very sincere about my issue. I hope this helps you guys out...

niander99

I live in Pittsburgh, PA and I had a 2005 TL that had the exact same problem. Took it into the dealer several times and they basically told me i'm crazy. I ended up trading the 05 for an 06 MT and this one does the exact same thing, along with CONSTANTLY pulling to the right while driving. Had it back to the dealer and they just told me the same thing again about 3rd gear (i'm crazy) and they the pulling to the right is "normal", even though my 2005 did not do that. I have not been to happy with Acura thats for sure!

SandieD

Niander 99, You are a glutton for punishment to buy another TL. If I didn't stumble across this Acura Forum site when I was looking for others that had the same 3rd gear problem, I would still be battling with Acura. This forum directed me to the manual trans fluid fix! What really bothers me is that many dealers are not aware of the fix. I sent my letter posted yesterday, to my dealer with NHTSA in copy in order to "educate" Acura to save everyone else grief in the future. What a waste of time and energy! Report any complaints to this website: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...in/results.cfm

bshean

Found this on the NHTSA web site:

"Make : ACURA Model : TL Year : 2005
Manufacturer : HONDA (AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.)
Service Bulletin Num : 1205 Date of Bulletin: DEC 16, 2005
NHTSA Item Number: 10018865
Component: POWER TRAIN:MANUAL TRANSMISSION
Summary:
TRANSMISSION GRINDS AT SHIFTS, SKIP SHIFTING. *TT "

I looked through the service bulletins listed in the "Garage" thread of service bulletins but didn't find this one listed.

I think this Acura forum is great, and I'm sure Acura's hearing about it , but would love to see, as I'm sure others would, a definitive source of all service bulletins. It gripes me that Acura knows when there's enough of a problem to generate a service bulletin (TSB) , but they don't tell the car owners about it!

Pardon the rant, but what if one of the issues in a TSB causes an accident/kills someone? Acura knows a problem exists, but doesn't tell the owner of the vehicle? Guess they only notify owners when a recall is issued (and they want to save money by not making repairs unless owner's gripe). Acura encourages owners to register on their Web site--to receive "valuable information". TSBs are THE type of valuable information I would want to receive via email. Yet, they don't aren't gutsy enough to "walk the walk" when it comes to providing a really valueable service from a customer's point of view. As someone who's been in the publishing/online publishing biz for 16 years, if they really want to establish a relationship with me, start by "lifting the veil of secrecy" on TSBs and offer service bulletins as part of the "relationship" mix.

SandieD

Bshean, Yes, I have that TSB 1205 but it doesn't say much at all. They need a new TSB or recall of the manual trans cars to change the gear oil. Simple. Also on the NHTSA site is a TSB allowing the changing of tires due to premature tire wear. Service bulletin 05-050 dated 2/1/06. I think if enough people put complaints on the NHTSA site I listed in a previous post, the NHTSA can do something.

Adobeman

Are those NHTSA bulletins actually bulletins, registered complaints or something else ? It is pretty hard to tell just by looking at the NHTSA site. We have a pretty good list of Acura TSBs in the 3G garage and I don't know of any Acura TSB for the 6MT 3rd gear. And, maybe it is just me but I find a notchy 3rd gear and "...causes an accident/kills someone..." worlds apart.

At any rate, it is pretty well documented that dumping and replacing with either the GMSM friction modified or the Honda MTF yields dramatic improvements in most, if not all, cases where the owners have done so. It is also reported a few times where owners have had their gearboxes opened up and parts changed only to change nothing in the end.

It cost me 15 bucks and and took an hour to just dump and replace with Honda MTF. Did it right in my own garage. If I have to do it every 15K that's just fine, I'll do it. That's just how good the 6MT is for me now. trancemission says the same. BrettG , like many others, used the GMSM-FM and he's gone "blue in the face" telling of it's success.

Of course we can argue about what Acura should, or shouldn't do. We could also argue about what a 30K car should do or shouldn't do. We could do so for a long, long time. "Matters of principle", Blah, blah blah.... it proves nothing other than we can wish and work ourselves up in to a "froth" over it. So if you can't do it your self just have the dealer do it. It should cost about what an oil change costs. You will get over it as soon as the gearbox starts shifting better. Seriously, you probably waste more than that on coffee every week.
If you are still thinking "but that's not the point...", it is the point. The point is your want your car to shift better. Wining an argument with the dealer is insignificant and pointless by comparison. Save your fighting with the dealers for the big stuff should you ever have to.

SandieD

Well you told us Adobeman. I can't help but want to be an "advocate" w/the boobs at Acura because I wanted my "baby" to be perfect without a lot of crap from the service staff that knew nothing. Yes, the gear oil made all the difference in the world but what a pain it was to find out about the fix in the first place. One poor guy who wrote earlier actually traded in his 2005 for a 2006 and Acura didn't bother to inform him that the engine and trans is the same 2004 through 2006. Unfortunately we all had to dig deeply to find the solution and just want those that didn't to be saved the trouble in the future. Yipee for the gear oil change but we can only wonder what is next! To answer your question, the TSB are actual service bulletins issued by Acura to the dealerships and by law they must furnish these to the NHTSA. If there is a repeated problem, eventually these can become actual recalls.

bshean

Chill Adobeman! Apparently you read more into my post than I intended. To recap:
1) I think this forum is a fantastic example of "online community"--where people are helping each other out with issues ranging from rather trivial to potentially very important. My frustration about finding a source of TSBs is focused at Acura, not this forum.
2) The item I found on the NHTSA site is an Acura TSB. I was simply asking, having seen this thread, if anyone else has come across this TSB which seems directly related to this thread. If there is a TSB that's related to my transmission, I'd like to know about the problem now at 17k miles, instead of after my drive train warranty expires.
3) Re: whether this will "...causes an accident/kills someone..." is directed at a higher level than this specific transmission problem. If I hadn't seen the "bump stop/premature tire wear" TSB mentioned on this site, I may not have realized that the tires on my car were prematurely wearing out. Maybe the next TSB could be related to a break problem, or electrical problem which could cause a fire, etc.

Ok, time to get back to more important issues.... like the ball game on tonight...

CBR1100XX

My car is starting to act up now. 10K miles on it. It does get better as the car warms up.

trancemission

Change the freakin fluid and get on with life..

ttliang

^there.

Adobeman

That's the truth.
If only I could have been as eloquent in my earlier "rant" a few posts up ^^
Brevity isn't my strong point.

CBR1100XX

I was driving home today and had an awakening. Why is skip shifting so bad? WOuldn't down shifting for a pass or acceleration be much harsher on the tranny?

Adobeman

Because of the bigger difference in engine vs gearbox rotational speed when skip shifting when you skip a gear. The extra slack has to be taken up by the synchros. If you are really good at anticipating/matching revs and double clutching you can reduce the "slack" to be taken up by the synchros. The jury is out on just how bad it really is. That's probably because there are a mix of drivers. Some that know how to match revs and/or double clutch and others that just mash their synchros.

niander99

SandieD, well its too late now cause I already got the 06. What do you recommend that I print out to take to my dealer? Every time I complain about something on this car, which is only the pulling to the right and 3rd gear issue, they just tell me nothing is wrong and there is nothing to fix. I obviously have to do part of their job by bringing in proof. I seen there was TSB for 12/05 on the manual tranny but cant find the details on it. So frustrating after spending another 32 grand...

niander99

SandieD. I tried to log a complaint on the web site that you posted, but there is no option to chose Acura. Maybe I was missing something....

trancemission

Look bro, have them call my service guy at my dealer if you have to. Everybody is reporting having this issue. I couldn’t prove it either when I took my car in. But I did sit down at his desk and had him and the head mechanic read this thread. They've known me for some time and know that I have nothing to gain by making this up. The test drive yielded nothing. So they pretty much took my word and changed the factory fill for me. Now the car is fine. I even got a follow up email from the head mechanic.

As far as your car pulling to the right, I thought I had the same problem. Actually, that was the first thing I took my car in for. I had 250 miles on it. All the wheels were in the green, but they made very slight adjustments for my sake. Some roads I get on it still pulls but the other day I was on the toll way and let off the wheel for like two exits, the car was rock steady. So I concluded that it was me for the most part. Just be sure that you are on flat ground when you think its pulling..

niander99

Well, get me the name of the dealer cause I already know what these morons are going to tell me. As far as the pulling to the right goes, I am 110% sure it is not me. It does it on every road I am on. If as so much let go of the wheel, as long as the tranny is engaged, it will be off of the side of the road within 3 seconds. No one listens to me about it though. They always want to tell me its torque steer. TS does not happen that bad when you are barely even pushing the gas pedal. I will probably just end up selling the POS and calling it quits with Acura. I am fed up.

obts000

I have the same issue only to the left. I get the same result that it goes away if I push in the clutch. It actually seems worse under very mild power and is most noticible while maintaining a constant speed on anything other than a decline. The car actually drives straighter if you hammer it. I don't know if it is torque steer, a problem with the suspension (the dealer replaced the front lower control arms; they thought it helped, I didn't see much change), or an issue with the limited slip differential. I don't think it is tires, brakes, or base alignment since the problem goes away without power. The dealer has done a lot to try to correct it, but has been unsuccessful. They are now telling me it is "typical of the model". Do most people with the 6MT have the same problem? Has any one been able to fix it? I have 14 months left on my 04 lease, and am surprisingly not underwater. I am thinking about trading for a G35 if I can't fix it. Any hope out there? I like the car otherwise.

Brettg

Our 2005 6MT has no pull at all unless you go around a sharp turn with heavy throttle. In normal driving it has no pull at all, and the steering wheel is centered.

Maybe try another dealer to fix your car, seems like some kind of alighnment or tire problem...

Brett

roybiggens

I just bought an 06 6MT and I had the exact same pulling problem. I had the service manager drive the car on the interstate. He agreed there was an issue, they came back and checked the alignment and it was off pretty bad from the factory. They did and alignment on the car and it's rock solid now.

At first they gave me the same story about torque steer. They thought I was complaining about the car pulling under heavy acceleration until I explained that it even pulled when using cruise control. That's when I just asked if the service manager would hop in and go for a drive.

See if you can get the service manager to drive the car with you in it. At least that worked for me.

SandieD

You can put in a complaint for any car. Go back to the site http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/Consumer.cfm and you can enter your problem here. I have mine there already about the tranny before I even knew about this Acura forum where the gear oil solution came to light.

niander99

Well, that shoots my idea down about it being the tires then. I do not know what to do about it since the dealer just tells me "torque steer". I even had them drive my 2005 TL that i traded in on the 2006 so they can see how the 05 did NOT do it and I just didnt get an answer. This will be the last Acura I buy that is for sure. Its a shame because I love the car, but the pulling to the right is so bad my left hand actually gets tired fighting the wheel all the time.

levined1ma

I am another owner with the third gear problem noted in this thread. After notifying my dealer in Connecticut where I bought the vehicle, and forwarding him a copy of this posting, he immediately agreed to change the transmission fluid to a synthetic. The change eliminated much of the problem, but I still had occasional notchiness in third. About a week ago he changed it again, and I have had no problem at all since then. I have written to Acura to complain about the lack of an official service bulletin on this issue. I thought that it might pose a safety hazard for those driving without the fix.

SandieD

Levined1ma,
Thank you, ACURA should do something so people are aware there is something that can be done. We'll see what happens.

acford

This forum is very disheartning for me. I just traded my 03 TL-S for a 05 TL with the 6SP manual. I drove a Honda Accord with the manual tranny for 12 years before upgrading to the 03. Of course with the 03, it only came in auto. My 03 auto tranny went at 60,000 miles. I read on here about the auto problem with the 2nd generation TL. That's why I traded for the 05 with the manual.

Am I going to also have problems with my manual transmission? This is crazy! I expect so much more from Acura/Honda! My Accord was amazing! I only sold it because I got tired of driving it. It had no problems. I only have about 800 miles on my new 05 (yes, they still had a few 6SP 05 TLs on the lot). I got it for $1,300 UNDER invoice ($29,000). I bought it brand new with only 75 miles on it.

I have felt the notchy feeling in 3rd gear, but only when it is cold. I really hope Acura steps up and does a recall if there is a problem with the fluid or whatever. I REALLY enjoy driving this car and I'm so glad to be driving a manual again. I can't stand auto trannies. I will be following this forum very closely. Thanks for all the info!!

C The "S"

I'm with you man. I have a 01 CL-S and I just had the tranny replaced at 85k, and I want to get rid of it before the warranty is up. Have been lookin at replacin it with the 6MT TL, but now I'm having doubts! And I think the Jury is still out on the 3G auto tranny. I just may have to go with the new Subaru Legacy....

BTW, I've used the GM Synchromesh in my 93 Integra and it was great!

Adobeman

I dunno. I'm guessing we represent a small percentage of people who even notice the 3rd gear engagement issue. I'm not saying it doesn't exist or that it is OK. Just saying that there are lots of blissful 3G 6MT owners out there and we represent a more discriminating sub-set.

As for me, since I just dumped and refilled with Honda MTF I couldn't be happier as well. Cheap and easy to do and something I can live with for all the positives I enjoy about the car.

trancemission

oh my god people. just change the factory fill and move on... how many times do one of us have to tell you our experiences.

People haved used the GM stuff and have been very happy. People like Adobeman and myself changed the factory fill with Honda MTF and have had great results. So just quit bitching and change the fluid. Thats it, end of story.

Im closing this thread. Its obvious theres an issue, we all have talked about ways to handle it.

By the time you get to this post you should have no question on what should be done.

This thread is being used now for everyone with the problem to chime in and bitch.

The fix is there. Just do it.

trancemission

^^^^oh how things change........

So heres an update from me on this problem.

Every damn fluid I put in this car lasted about 2 months for me. Then I would guess the oil broke down and my 3rd gear issues came back. I think I have done a total of 4 tranny fluid changes in my car since the above post...

Im posting this because over the past year my attitude has changed. I was so worried about putting the GM shit in I completely lost sight of what will actually fix this car. My dealer had done everything they could think of to the point of changing the tranny which is not going to happen. I bumped this thread for a reason. As you can see in my posts I was not a big believer in the GM fluid.

Soooooo, I bought the GM fluid, put it in and since then Ive never looked back.

I would like to say that I wished I had listened to you guys back then and just done it. It wouldve saved me alot of trips to the dealer and endless discussions about what could be done to fix it.

I went to a chevrolet dealer to pick up my GM fluid. I told the guy that this seems to be the know all tell all fluid. He said that the BMW dealership orders cases of it from him every week.

So in the end I would say I learned alot from this experience. I gave the dealer every opportunity to fix this, up to replacing synros and tranny.

So here is another sucess story with the GM fluid. Thanks again for everyones input.....

Ill reopen this for a bit to give you guys a chance to flame me with "I told you so"...

mlpnya

Could you please tell me the exact GM fluid you used? I seem to remember there were two types listed in these posts.

I have gone the same route as you, two different factory changes, one with reg oil, one with the Honda synthetic, the reg fluid did nothing, the synthetic did last about 2 - 3 months.

thx
Nate

acford

I'm going through the exact same thing right now. My only concern is that your current analysis is a little premature. You stated that with all the different oils you tried, they only lasted about 2 to 3 months. How long has it been since you put in the GM fluid? If you can say the 3rd gear issue is still gone after 3 or 4 months; then I would agree that you've found the solution.

I'm still concerned about long term use of the GM fluid. I've talked to master Honda mechanics and they tell me that the Honda engineers spend years and years of research and design before they put anything into production. Their philosophy is that the car has been through vigorous testing during R&D and everything should be kept stock. That goes the same for aftermarket mods such as CAI, exaust, etc.

I agree with them to an extent, but based on what I've seen on here; I think the OEM Acura/Honda manual tranny fluid doesn't do the job. I had my fluid changed for the new 07 fluid and after about a month it was back to the same problem. Mine isn't just 3rd gear. I also don't like the rough shifting between 1st and 2nd gears. It goes into gear ok, but sometimes there is a metal to metal feel to it. I'm hoping the GM stuff will also fix the overall feel.

trancemission

This is exactly what I put it. It must say "friction modified". Its imperative that it say that... just go by the part number on this bottle..

trancemission

you are quite right acford. I have only had it in for a couple of weeks...

So far so good, but you are correct, long term I dont know. But Ill post it up my thoughts after some time has gone by.

There are plenty of people in this thread who have had it in for thousands of miles. I havent read one problem from anybody as of yet. I have gone to NSX forums and the like, read alot of threads on this. This fluid, for some reason, works.

Believe me, I was really worried about putting it in. But I have come to a point where I just couldnt take it anymore. The head mechanic at my dealer walked up to me and said "just put it in". So that was really all I needed to hear.

If I was the only one doing it I would be concerned, but I have joined the ranks of many 3G 6MT owners now and I feel pretty confident that this will work just fine.

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

Why? If you have been reading up on this problem you have read countless testimonials about how well the GM fluid has worked. I have yet to read one report about any problem using the stuff. Would you only use Honda/Acura engine oil even if something else has been clearly proven to work better? I don't quite understand why people will put any number of non-Honda engine oils in their car but when it comes to transmission oil they are married to the inferior Honda product.

acford

Point well taken. I think I'm a little more sensitive on this topic because I traded in my 03 TL-S for my current 05 TL 6MT because of a bad transmission. Of course the 2nd generation TL had serious design issues with their automatic transmissions. I realize there are many people on here that have been using the GM fluid for "thousands of miles", but nobody has tested it long term(5+ years/100,000 miles or greater). That was my initial concern.

I agree with you now though. It's not like I'm switching out my gears with aftermarket parts or something like that. All I'm doing is using a different oil. I'll be changing mine out for the GM as soon as I get a chance. Thanks for the input.

Adobeman

Trance,
Excellent news. As you may recall I was hessitant as well. I changed to GM Friction Modified Right around the last week of December 06. The difference was dramatic and immediate.

I know it is only 3 months but I have not had one single 3rd gear engagement issue since the switch. Not one clash/grind, not one pop-out, not even one of those hesitations and pop-in things. Nada, nothing, nyet , zippo.

With the improved Acura fluid I generally had one "hard to engage" every day. Why didn't I do it earlier?

trancemission

Thats a question Ive been asking myself alot this week Mike..

Thats why I bumped this thread and reopened it. Figured I deserved it...

DMZ

Those are the most common words uttered by ALL 6MT'ers once they've put in the GM fluid and by ALL 5AT'ers once they've installed the Comptech Rear Sway bar.