Thorin78

I'm looking for some opinions as to what I should do.

My brakes are almost marginal, I've had them for about 29,500 miles now and will need replacing. The rotors are warped as well. The dealership said that they could machine the rotors for me and replace the brakes. The current special on the brake job is like $160 to $170.

Excelerate is running a special on Rotora slotted rotors and H2 ceramic pads. It may cost $450 to replace the entire set. plus installation.

I'm a casual driver, no tracks stuff or racing anyone. What would you guys recommend as a long term solution?

SouthernBoy

Based upon your driving style and apparent needs, go with your first selection. I just replaced my front pads on my '04 TL manual (Brembos) a few weeks ago and my primary concern, besides stopping ability, was low dusting. I don't race or rag my TL either, so truly hi-performance pads were not my first choice.

Ron A

That sounds like a really good price at the dealer for original equipment replacements and labor.

I find the brakes to be great for my normal driving conditions, much like yours, and for the difference in price I wouldn't even consider upgrading.

Thorin78

I'm leaning towards the OEM route as well. If the $170 includes the machining, parts and labor, that's a really great deal for another 30K miles. I'm just wondering how much longer would my rotors last. Another 30k? even after being machined?

Ron A

Now that you mention it again, I must ask why they need to machine the rotors. I have driven a lot of cars a lot of miles and I don't think I have ever had my rotors turned.

The open spoke design on our cars makes it easy to check the rotors. Can you feel grooves? If it feels smooth to you, you probably don't need to turn the rotors. The only time you really need to is if something got between the pad and the rotor and scored it, or if your pads got so low they made grooves in the rotor.

We read a lot in here about dealers recommending turning the rotors, but I don't feel it is always necessary. Todays rotors are thinner than the older ones, meaning they can probably only be turned once, so the next time it's new rotors, meaning more money.

Thorin78

Well I was feeling shaking in the steering column when braking from highway like speeds. I mentioned this to the dealer and later he called back and said that the pads were getting low. I expected that since it's been 30K miles. Then he said that the rotors were warped, and that he suggested machining it smooth again and put on new pads.

I'll go feel the rotors before I drive home tonight and see if it is smooth.

I'm going to do it in another 3000 miles since that's when my regular service is coming up.

Thorin78

The rotors feel very smooth except for 1 portion that's closer to the inner circle. It's a very slight line but I could feel it.

How long are rotors supposed to last?

vash68

Sounds like you do have warped rotors, so turning them will not help, but machinning will return them to their normal shape.

Rotors life span (on the same car model) depends mostly on your driving or rather braking habits. I have 29Kmi on my 04TL Auto, and I do take my car to the track occasionaly, but I still have a lot of pad material left and rotors are holding up very well - no prob whatsoever. Point is - I don't use my brakes as much as you do or as intence as you do. Partly 'cus I used to drive manual long time ago and I still use engine braking a lot, partly 'cuz I keep the correct distance with cars in front of me. DOn't get me wrong, ppl drive differently.

For comparison, my 99 Accord V6 (which is close to 2G TL by design) had front rotors machined at ~20K and pads replaced just after I had a single emergency braking situation on the rough road with gravel and sand Dealer cost was $180
After that I replaced my rotors on that car at 50Kmi, they warped again, but that was expected. Now my wife drives that car and it has 90Kmi on the clock and no rotor or pad problems.

Hope this helps

gogotl

i agree your rotor is warped. warped rotors are usually caused by uneven heat dissipation, not physical damage to the metal. an original rotor can be turned a couple times before the thickness becomes too thin. obviously, it also depends on the severity of warpage. if you dont race, stay with OEM pads and rotors. cross drilled rotors are more likely to crack. slotted rotors are stronger than drilled, but the benefit is to prevent brake fading after repetitive heavy use, not to extend brake life or prevent warpage..

subinf

I've always though turning and machining were the same thing? Am I wrong and have been telling customers the wrong thing?

Brettg

Cutting, turning, machining, its all the same thing.
The stock pads on the brembo's dust up a lot, so I will try something else for my brakes.
The AT cars are great as you can get rotors for about $40.00 each, and they sell the pbr/axxis deluxe pads which are great pads, low dust, long wear, good braking.

I never get rotors turned, I dont want to remove metal, that just makes them warp easier, and for most cars, new rotors are between $25.00 amd $45.00 each.

Brett

subinf

^6mt rotors are hard to find...I'm trying to milk them for all they are worth until D-Day

ds0912

I have 38,000 on my 04' and am told I need to have my rotors turned to reduce the vibration when braking. Brake pads are fine and no gouges found. Cost will be about $150 for all 4. Does this sound reasonable?

Excelerate

iTrader: (1)

If you just drive the car normally and have been happy with the OEM rotors just get them turned. Like Ron A said you typically get turn the rotors once before they need to be replaced. Sometimes, if you're fortunate, there isn't even a lip on the rotor and you can just replace the pads without turning the rotors. If you are looking for some more performance out of your rotors, i.e. less brake fade, better heat dissipation, less chance of warpage, go with the ROTORA slotted rotors. It all depends on what you want or what your goals are.

batting_cleanup

Rotors primarialy warp from improper tightning of the lug nuts after a tire rotation / replacement. If a "grease monkey", since they can't be called a mechanic, uses an impact gun of the lug nuts you are guaranteed to have warped rotors when they are done. There is a very specific tourque setting that lug nuts have to be tightened to and a very specific pattern that needs to be used to tighten the lugs in stages until the proper tourque is acheived.

Shoot2Thrill

Rotor being warped PRIMARILY because of improper torque of the lug nuts. Not so sure about that. You have a source?
Otherwise the $170 deal from the stealer sounds about as like the way to go.

subinf

link? and everyone seems to be using torque sticks now. i still prefer my torque wrench since it cost me quite a bit of cash, but it is a lot faster to use the torque sticks on the impact.

KC-Dub

The shaking of the steering wheel under braking (especially at high speed) is generally a sure sign of a warped rotor. There's a difference between a rotor having grooves in it (as mentioned above) and being warped. Grooves in the rotor which are caused by low pads or debris will reduce breaking performace but (assuming they are in a true circle) will not cause shaking of the wheel under braking.

The shaking of the steering wheel is caused by a warped rotor meaning the surface of the rotor is no longer flat and true. When you press the brake pedal and the bads bite down on the rotor, the bumps in the warped rotor (which vary around the circumfrence) cause sudden increases and decreases in braking force causing one side to slow down more than the other, hence the slight tug on the steering wheel. The higher your speed, the greater the frequency of these small tugs as the pads hit the warped spots in the rotors, and a small tug turns into a vibration.

All that to say, the dealership's recomendation of turning your rotors is correct, but the warping is likely caused by either a overly high heat applied to the rotor (emergency stop or metal-on-metal because of worn pads) or, as mentioned above, occasionally caused improper lug torquing. Turning the rotor is a quick fix (especially at that price) but if the problem keeps coming back, I'd replace the rotors as it seems some rotors just have a greater tendency to warp (due to manufacturing variances, etc) and replacing them could save you a few trips back to the dealer later on. Best of luck.

waacow

Noobies to car and brakes: I have AT and do not take my car to track but want to get better brakes performance without spending a lot. It doesn't seem like i would need those BBK which cost more than $2k+. I can just upgrade to slotted rotor or other better rotor and replace with better brake pad without changing the caliper? Is this an easy DIY?

subinf

^-yes you can keep the original caliper if you keep the same size rotor. fairly easy to do all that as well

waacow

With new slotted roter and better brake pad, how much brake performance increased I can get with original caliper compare to stock? 10%, 20%, 50%? How about BBK compare to stock brake?

blah

Contrary to popular belief, vibration in your brake pedal is not caused by a "warped rotor". Brake pedal vibration is really caused by an uneven amount of pad deposited on the rotors. Read this for some background http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

To get rid of the vibration you can either turn/cut the rotors, or just put on some new pads and follow the bed in instruction on the Stoptech link. I've successfully removed a mild vibration by performing 4-5 moderate stops (slow from 50 mph to 20 mph with 50% pedal presure) and then 4-5 hard stops (slow from 50 mph to 0 hard with ABS kicking in).

mio

warped rotor will cause steering wheel vibration when step on the break pedal...

subinf

who are you?

blah

I'm Andy...who are you?

vash68

Originally Posted by vash68
Sounds like you do have warped rotors, so turning them will not help, but machinning will return them to their normal shape.




I've always though turning and machining were the same thing? Am I wrong and have been telling customers the wrong thing?
You are right, I don't remember what I was thinking in May

subinf

haha i forgot about that. no worries, there are so many different terms used to describe the same procedure its quite normal to have a brain freeze. ive had quite a few

Brettg

I will say it again, its stupid to do anything but buy new rotors if you have problems/issues or are doing brake work.

For the AT cars, a NEW rotor is about $40.00, maybe you can get one even cheaper, pads are dirt cheap.

Turning an old rusty rotor is a waste of time and money in my book.

My local shop charges $25.00 to turn a rotor, and on some cars, you can get a new one for that price!

For the brembo setup, I think rotors are about $120.00 each, but I would still buy new ones if they were old, rusty and warped.

Brett

TN TL

Okay, I've had my 05 AT TL for about 3 months. Been happy with the car with the exception of some shotty work done by the local NTB. They replaced all four pads and turned front rotors when I bought the car. It needed it. A few weeks later the pulsing, shaky stering wheel started back. Turned the fronts again. Three days later the same pulsing/shaking. From reading on az I think I need to just replace the front rotors. Right?
I'm not letting anyone else do the brake work. I should have been doing it myself from the start. So, since Ive had new pads on these warped rotors for about a month now, are they messed up and need replacing with the new front rotors?
Couldn't the NTB have told me that the rotors were warped the first time around?

csmeance

your rotors are past their service limit most likely, you can't cut a rotor 3 times without it going past the limit. You might be able to get away with the same pads if you haven't run them too long.

TN TL

Anyone know a good place to buy rotors for the auto trans TL (non-brembo)? I've read people talking about $40 a piece for them. My quick google search didnt get anywhere close to that cheap.

nisreo

"turning" and "machining" are the same thing. Rotors do not need to be grooved to require a resurface (again same as "turning") If you feel a pulsation in your steering wheel on braking, your rotors are warped and need a resurface.

TN TL

Okay, I've tried to self diagnose my brake problem a little more. I'm doing so, because I'm still not settled with the idea that I just need to replace the rotors. They were just turned so I don't understand how they could be warped that quick. So, from my recent test drive I noticed a couple of things. First, the steering wheel is pulling to the passenger side slightly. It seems to do so with or without braking. Second, it appears the shutter is coming more from the front passenger side (but that may be becuase I think that's where the problem is). I've seen people on AZ write about flushing the brake fluid every 30K. Could that be the problem? Also, how about a sticking caliper?

This would normally be something that I would let the dealer handle, but they're wanting 90 bucks just to look at it (which would apply to the repairs). They also said that, at the least, they would replace the aftermaket pads which are brand new. My guess is that they'll replace the rotors too ($140 each at the dealer). I can replace whatever is needed for much cheaper, but I'm trying to get a handle on what it is.

Anyone?

blkaspec

I upgraded my setup a few months ago to a RacingBrake rotor and RB ET500 pad setup. I had the stock rotors with the Aspec pads which i thought were great, but this setup is another step above that. I also hated the rusting that appeared everytime it was damp outside, and these rotors are far less prone to that. Overall i am super happy with this setup and i would do it again on another vehicle if i had the chance, plus the slots on these rotors just look cool. I picked mine up from Heeltoe and got a pretty good deal. I highly recmmend And its not that hard to do it yourself, you just need an afternoon free if its yours first time.

http://www.heeltoeauto.com/product.p...at=3547&page=1

nisreo

If your steering wheel is pulling to the left without braking, you have a tire induced pull. Rotate your tires left to right and see if it changes( gets better, pulls opposite direction) If it does change, your tires are your problem and replacing them will probably be the only solution. You can try putting tires in different spots on your car, sometimes the right combination will make your pull disappear...


A brake fluid flush is a good idea, but it wont fix a pulsation

If your caliper was seized, your brake pad on one side will be significantly more worn than the others. Another good sign is go for a long drive, then park it and touch each of your rims. If one is alot hotter than the others, your caliper is probably frozen..


Are you feeling a pulsation in your steering wheel, brake pedal, or both? Typically if its in your steering wheel, you need your front rotors resurfaced. If its only in your pedal, its your rear rotors, but its not so noticible. If its in both, start with a front rotor cut, then work to the rear if it doesn't go away.