i've read some different posts about this, some people suggest tensioner (btw, is tensioner the same as tensioner pulley?), mechanic suggested valve adjustment, and some people on the boards say this is normal...

turn up your speakers, it starts off inside the car, kind of hard to hear. then i go out to the engine, especially near the end, you'll notice the repeating tap/tick sound.


this goes away after a few minutes when the engine has warmed up. but it's still only 15 degrees celsius right now...it gets down as cold as -20C here in the winter (-4F) and i'll be more worried then.

any ideas?

 

I have this same problem.

 

As others may suggest...loose spark plug? As the engine warms, the seal of the plug to the head may be better and the noise stops. It might not be the issue but is definitely worth a look.

 

From what it sounds like is you have a bad tensioner. The puller is part of the tnesioner itself, which is hydraulic. When the tensioner is cold it makes noise, but when the fluid gets hot it goes away. Try this... Start it cold after letting it sit to when it makes the noise. Rev your engine up slowly and the noise should increase. At a certain point the noise should go away. Mine went away above 3k PRM and came back it i went below it. I also have a 2007 TL and its very common on these. 99% chance that is your probem. Your car will be sooooooooooooooooooooo quiet after you replace it.

 

do you mean rev up when the car is on neutral?

i started driving the car immediately a few weeks ago when it wasn't as cold and the noise wasn't as apparent (i guess not as cold). i notice that when i load the engine a little (increase revs), it would get a little louder. maybe this is similar to what you're talking about. eventually when the car warmed up, the noise would go away.

if this is common, what is the danger if it's not fixed. is it something that i can make arrangements for, or is it something that requires me to drop everything and get it fixed NOW?

isn't the tensioner part of the whole timing belt change? is it really labour intensive to access the tensioner, isn't this something that's usually done when replacing the timing belt, etc? is it even worthwhile to do it without the timing belt and stuff, and then have to do timing belt again later?

how much is the tensioner, and what else needs to go with it? i've seen it range from about $60-130, but that's not OEM, and it's online.

 

When I refer to cold, I am referring to the temperature of the car not the ambient outside temperature. Thus meaning it has sat at least 4-5 hours before starting. Its does not matter in neutral or whatever(I guess if you have a manual then you have no choice right...? lol). So start car cold, immediately rev it up slowly where it takes you about ten seconds to get to 3k RPM. The noise corresponds to engine speed so it will get louder and a faster rhythm the faster the engine speed it. However, at a certain point(in my case 3k RPM) the noise would magically disappear. If I lowered my RPM the noise would come back. You can do this many times until the tensioner gets hot(meaning the fluid inside it). This is annoying as hell, trust me. The specific tensioner I am referring to is the serpentine belt tensioner. This is easily accessible on the outside of the engine and is rub by your serpentine(regular) belt, not the timing belt. That has a tensioner too, but thats not causing your noise. These tensioners are know to do this. The tensioner is about $115 OEM from the dealer. But it is $85 online, always order from discounted parts places. #2 in the photo.

http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/P...=4336%20382547

See thread below for tensioner failure. I'm sure if you look in the 3G Garage you can find some D.I.Y. vidoes. That or you can look it up on youtube. You dont have to be REALLY mechanically inclined to replace it. Its a few bolts and taking off the belt. No big deal. You can replace your belt as well if you want, but i dont recommend it because you put a new belt on with the timing belt at 105k, so you might as well wait. This is IF there are no visible cracks in it.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/belt-tensioner-replacement-diy-859608/

 

wow so i reved above 3000 rpm, and you're right, like magic the sound disappears. then back below 3000rpm and it comes back until the engine is warm

i know you mean cold start as in the engine is cold =) but thank you. but it's gotten colder outdoors, i park outside sometimes, and so the problem is more noticeable. in the warm summer, this noise didn't arise probably because the outdoor temperature was higher.

i've read that post you mentioned, it's not so much a DIY as just posts of what people did. i'll have to figure out what tools and how to do it. but seems like remove tensioner, remove belt/shift belt, put in new tensioner, realign, done....well, maybe not that easy.

is this a huge problem right away? i can wait a few weeks to get on this, right?

 

Can you verify if it changes with load? Such as power brake it in drive, brakes on and parking brake set. Note the noise level. Then put it in park and rev it to the same rpm it was at while powerbraking and see if the noise is at the same level and tone or not.

With your winter temps I would be running a 0w-20 if you're not already. It's very unlikely it's the engine though. It sounds a lot like a tensioner or even an exhaust leak. If you can, remove the serpentine belt and start it up and see if the noise goes away.

Last, mine has made an exhaust leak sort of noise when I've had it in very cold climates. When I would start it up on a 12 degree morning there was more noise. I know this noise well because my turbo car used thin walled headers and it's the same type of noise. The TL does something different when it's cold to get the cats warmed up as quick as possible. It almost surely retards the timing to bring up the exhaust gas temperature which also makes the exhaust much louder. You end up with the exhaust still burning going through the first part of the exhaust system, if there was no exhaust it would probably be a 2-3 foot flame. You might just be hearing the exhaust through the piping until the timing returns to normal. The other possibility is a slight exhaust leak that seals itself up after getting warm which is common.

 

Mine sounds the same. I replaced the tensioner and it didn't change. I removed the drive belt and it sounded the same. If the engine is preheated with a block heater its not a problem. It does it 100% of the time the engine is below about 60-80ºF and gets louder as it gets colder. It's not that loud until it breaks below freezing, unless the hood is popped. A friends TL does the same thing. Off a cold start in 0ºF weather, if the car was sitting outside overnight, it sounds fairly bad and fades in a minute or two.

I had a V6 Accord that had a similar rattle on cold startup. The vehicle was mechanically louder so it wasn't as noticeable. It never changed, proved to be an issue, or had any negative impact to oil analysis.

 

I think it's completely normal too. I bought mine in Dec of '05 so it was cold and it's always had a noise similar to the video since it was brand new.

 

ok, so i left the car overnight with mechanic to let him hear it. he's pretty convinced it's the valves need adjusting, he didn't hear anything coming from the tensioner. he said he worked on a couple odyssey's with a rattle on cold start that improved after valve adjustment. he had a few TLs with a similar issue, but the owners decided to just live with the sound and i guess nothing has turned up

I hate cars, i'll try to see if the noise still behaves the same way, disappearing above 3000 rpm, with load. i'll check it tomorrow morning and report back. removing the serpentine belt seems like a good idea...er...when i get some time, i'll have to figure out how to do that...cause if it's the tensioner, then it shouldn't be moving and causing noise if the belt isn't there, right?

ZOMGVTEK, so you removed the tensioner and still got the same noise? i don't want to start going on a wild goose chase. i'll look into how to replace the tensioner....by replacing tensioner, do you mean replacing the entire assembly or just the pulley? did you do anything more about the rattle or do you still have the rattle now?

how often is a valve adjustment supposed t happen, i don't see it on the maintenance schedule except for inspect valve clearance at 105k miles...i thought it was something that didn't need to be done very often

 

I don't know the factory spec on valve adjustments but most do it somewhere around 100k. I did mine at 113k and found a couple tight exhaust valves which was a good find because tight exhausts do not make noise but they will cause a burned valve once they get too tight. For what it's worth, mine was never very noisy and it's nearly perfectly quiet after the adjustment but the cold noise has not changed. The valve adjustment is not a bad idea but I wouldn't count on it to solve your problem.

I've owned my turbo car forever and I know the sound of the exhaust noise making it through the thin wall headers well. When I first started the TL I smiled because it was a familiar sound to me and not many cars make it. I really think it's just the engine management doing it's thing to make the cats light off quicker. Even if the engine is kept warm but the IAT sees cold air and the engine has been sitting overnight, the ECU probably knows the cats are dead cold as are the 02s. Only difference is the 02s have heaters and the cats don't. It could be that timing is retarded on cold start but once it's revved to 3,000 rpm or above timing goes back to normal to avoid too much heat in the exhaust.

About the load test... We need to figure out if the noise changes with just rpm or just load or both. When you powerbrake it, you can put the gas to the floor, just make sure you've got the brakes on good and the e-brake on. The ECU will only let the throttle open 1/4 of the way or less with the brakes on so you won't be anywhere near full power. Note the sound and the rpms it goes to with the gas on the floor. Then put it in park and hold the rpms at the same spot as they were at in gear and see if the noise is the same or different.

If the noise goes away under load but at low rpm, it's almost surely part of the warmup strategy and the exhaust noise I was talking about. I believe these cars only stall around 2,200rpm or so. I know it's well under 3,000rpm when powerbraking at full throttle so you'll know if it's load or rpm based.

 

I replaced the idler and tensioner wheel/bearings since it's cheap enough to do. I removed the belt entirely and the noise was still there, so it had nothing to do with the belt driven components in my case.

I use a block heater just about every start. The car sees about 110-130ºF coolant temps on 'cold' startup, and idles perfectly immediately. I would imagine it still makes the noise, but it hasn't been cold enough in months for me to know.

It's PROBABLY normal and nothing to be worried about. Engines are usually extremely reliable with proper maintenance. I would just run it and worry less.

 

ok, so i tried to rev during load. with the car in gear and brakes on, it won't let me go above 2000rpm, i hear a little grinding noise at the top end, and the car starts to vibrate a little, but i didn't hold accelerator down for very long. i figure this is a lot of stress, but it wouldn't go above 2000 rpm even when i tried, can't really tell if the noise went away cause it was replaced by the grinding noise (maybe vibrating noise)

note: today this tap/tick wasn't as noticeable, wasn't as cold, i should have tried it earlier in the morning, etc.

anyway, i put it into park and neutral, and reved above 3000 rpm and the noise went away, then came back down below 3000 rpm

if this was a normal feature, wouldn't people who bought the car new have experienced it from day 1? and wouldn't everyone who owns the car, regardless of age, also experience it? i find it hard to believe that honda/acura would allow such an alarming sound (however harmless) to persist, because it would cause some unnecessary concern, wouldn't it?

so i don't know if i should just leave this alone....i mean, i guess adjust valves eventually just cause? there's some ticking, it sounds more like it's coming from the opposite side of the engine from the tensioner....i dunno, maybe sound is reflecting around or something. the tensioner also doesn't look like it's 'moving around' ...

and i've been trying to look this up but still confused at what i'm looking at...where is the timing belt in relation to the drive/serpentine belt? the drive belt is pretty obvious, and it's attached to the alernator, but i don't see another belt..
-----
on a side/unrelated note, i was having an issue with the hot air kicking in randomly at times..i thought it might be a problem with the temperature sensor or heater control valve, but i looked at my coolant level today and it was BONE dry, way below the minimum mark and right at the bottom of the tank....i thought this mechanic was checking the fluids, i asked about it....sheesh, i'm going to stop by honda first thing tomorrow and get some coolant, don't know if that will solve the problem, the car needs coolant regardless, maybe it was really this simple...

 

Have you removed the serpentine belt and reved it?

 

no, don't have time for that right now. also, i still need to read up on how to do that. it seems like there should be some sort of release to remove tension from the belt in order to remove it...right? i'm not sure what the procedure is right now.

 

The timing belt is under the plastic covers right behind the drive belt. You can remove the upper inspection covers, but you need to pull the drive belt and harmonic balancer to get the lower off. That's usually a big project for a DIYer. Your noise MIGHT be the timing belt tensioner failing or failed, which would be bad. It's too hard to tell in the video.

I'm assuming you're talking about the coolant expansion tank was dry. The only reason that should ever be the case is if someone changed the coolant and did a poor job. Otherwise this would most likely indicate a leak, head gasket problem, or past overheat. Keep an eye on the level to see if your car is using coolant.

To remove the belt, you can loan a tool designed for it, or just use a 14mm? closed end wrench. Take a peek at the tensioner, and put the wrench on the bolt towards the passenger side, push really hard to the back of the car. Of course you want to make sure you're pushing on the bit that floats and actually tensions the belt. This would be rotating the bolt counter clockwise, which is actually tightening it, since its reverse threaded. It's really simple, but requires substantial force. The tool designed for it is really long, but a closed end wrench with a pipe on it works great or sometimes better. It only takes a minute. Just pay attention to how the belt goes around the pulleys. It really only fits one way, but you can spend some time moving the belt around trying to get it back on.

 

In the time you have spent typing questions and responses you could have partially and or completely diagnosed the issue.

 

havne't really considered anything wrong with timing belt, can't start coming up with too many possibilities, i'll change that in the next half year though as the car is coming up to about 7 years.

thanks for the advice on removing the drive, will give it a go later.

ok, yah, coolant expansion tank. i haven't noticed any leaks, but i would imagine the tank still shouldn't be below the minimum marking.

pohljm, thanks for the kick in the pants =) i gotta get off the forum and do some actual work. and as i've never tried removing the belts before, i think it would take me much longer than you seasoned pros

 

There's no way to tell how low the level actually is by looking at the tank but IF the coolant level is extremely low you'll have problems. The heater not working at times, especially at idle but working once the rpms are raised is a classic symptom of very low coolant. If it's low enough, and it has to be very low, the engine can sound noisier. The water in the water jackets and heads helps to quiet some of the noise (think about how an air cooled Porsche sounds with all of it's uniquie noises it makes). I don't know if it damps the block or if it's more of a barrier or both but I've noticed before beyond a doubt that engines can get louder when they're almost out of water.

This is not something I would wait on. Go to the store and get a gallon of distilled water and try it out. You can open the radiator drain to drain out the water tomorrow and put the Honda stuff in.

Once the car is dead cold, remove the radiator cap and see if there's any water. If the heater is intermittently blowing cool air you probably won't be able to see any water. That leads to the next question, where is it going? It should never use water, it's a closed system and coolant takes a very, very long time to evaporate. I've never had to add water but I drain and refill mine every two years anyway.

 

I had this exact issue man and it was my belt tensioner. Tons of them have been replaced for this exact concern. Yes, all this talk about valves making noise is correct. Valves get out of adjustment over time. Exhaust valves get too tight and the intake valves get loose( and were talking thousands of and inch here) Most people do the service with the 105k service. They will make more noise upon a cold start up due to lack of oil when the vehicle is off, but it will go away quickly when there is oil pressure. However, valves that make noise will always make noise at all times when the engine is on. Of course at idle it is most apparent though. I hate car is correct about taking the belt off, I dont know why I forgot to mention that to you in my earlier post. All these idea's of noises, we need to start with the simple things and rule out what we can. So your first homework assignment is to take off your belt and then start the engine like said above. Just remember how your belt routing is so you put it back on correctly. It is very simple and takes five minutes. The tensioner will not turn with the belt off. If the noise is gone, then WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER! I believe its your serpentine belt tensioner. Lets get a go on this before we post a million times and nothing gets done except rambling. Your on Azine now, lets get you working!

CHOP CHOP!

 

ok, so i took the belt off and it was still making that noise. and similarly, when i rev above 3000 rpm, the noise disappears. when the engine heats up enough, the noise goes away.

it wasn't as cold as i would have wanted it, but you could still make out that characteristic tapping noise.

any other suggestions? and where do you get those detail schematics of the parts in the car? people post those images sometimes, where are they from?

 

Have you addressed the coolant level problem yet? I'm guessing it's going to be a tensioner but let's rule out other stuff. Does it idle good, no misfire? Is it using coolant?

 

Here is the homepage to Acuraoemparts........just put in your vehicle info, and the next page has all the parts for the car listed. When you click on a part it will bring up a diagram. Some parts are found under or within other parts. (If that makes sense?)

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/jsp/home.jsp

diagram with some parts talked about.....I believe...?

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

 

Check your timing belt it might be loose.

 

tht sounds like you need to change your tensioner BUT, don't know if you've noticed my thread (it's still active) but changing the tensioner removed that sound but I was still gettin a sound only when it's cold..a lot are aaying change timing belt and water pump ..im gonna do that before Christmas and I'll keep you updated,.

 

I wanted to add in on this. So there are these flaps in the intake manifold of my 06 tl base w tech. They are loose and need adjusted and make the noise he is hearing. Its not the tensioner belt or pulley ..
(could need replaced) but very doubtful thats what your hearing.
I had a very reputable shop look into into mine and when the flaps go fully open at around 2500 to 3000 rpm the sound goes away all together (because the flaps are fully open and unable to slap against the intake manifold to make that noise). which is like a ticking/ almost knocking when very cold. SSOOO

SOLUTIONS?? Ive looked into this. Some people remove the flaps all together and leave the roller bar and sensor attached and have had no problems or CEL'S. Some people replace entire intake manifold.. is there any aftermarket manifold for 3rd gen tls?? HELP.
Im about to have my buddy just take the damn flaps out -__-
any input?