strange Spongy brakes
12-02-2007, 07:07 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
strange Spongy brakes
I just bought this car last thursday. Took it for a spirited drive yesterday. I had to floor it to get in front of another car to be first on a light, when I started braking I felt that pedal is kinda spongy, by the time I stopped - I had to press it as hard as I could and stopping wasn't improving. The brake smell came on right after.
I have an 04 6spd btw. 84K Miles
I had an 03 Accord 6spd and it was stopping muuuuuch better, with economy $25 rotors I ordered from amazon.com. These Brembo brakes don't do their job or what?
I have an 04 6spd btw. 84K Miles
I had an 03 Accord 6spd and it was stopping muuuuuch better, with economy $25 rotors I ordered from amazon.com. These Brembo brakes don't do their job or what?
12-02-2007, 07:30 PM
#2
What do the front pads look like? any material left on them?
When were they last replaced- they seem to go 25-35k on the 6MT cars
Does the pedal get better if you pump it twice real fast?
Does the pedal go to the floor while holding car stopped?
The brembos do their job- as long as there is rotor and pad material to work with!
Sounds like you need a pro to inspect it for you
When were they last replaced- they seem to go 25-35k on the 6MT cars
Does the pedal get better if you pump it twice real fast?
Does the pedal go to the floor while holding car stopped?
The brembos do their job- as long as there is rotor and pad material to work with!
Sounds like you need a pro to inspect it for you
12-02-2007, 07:36 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
Check to make sure that the car isn't leaking any fluids and that the brake fluid chamer has enought fluid. Also check the pads and rotors. A new car should not have been pushed hard with the brakes within 200 miles as the pads have to wear in properly. Also it might seem odd, but check the brake booster line, it is in the center behind the motor, it has a silver dot on it.
12-02-2007, 07:41 PM
#4
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
What do the front pads look like? any material left on them?
When were they last replaced- they seem to go 25-35k on the 6MT cars
Does the pedal get better if you pump it twice real fast?
Does the pedal go to the floor while holding car stopped?
The brembos do their job- as long as there is rotor and pad material to work with!
Sounds like you need a pro to inspect it for you
When were they last replaced- they seem to go 25-35k on the 6MT cars
Does the pedal get better if you pump it twice real fast?
Does the pedal go to the floor while holding car stopped?
The brembos do their job- as long as there is rotor and pad material to work with!
Sounds like you need a pro to inspect it for you
Don't know when they were replaced since I bought the car at the auction.
As for pumping and going to the floor I'll check tomorrow and let You know, but I don't recall pedal falling to the floor.
12-02-2007, 07:45 PM
#5
OHHHH auction car- no inspection required....you need front brakes!!!
Brembos dont have the squeeler tab like regular brakes, you have to remove the wheel and peer thru the center cutout of the caliper top to see down onto the pads thickness.
Brembos dont have the squeeler tab like regular brakes, you have to remove the wheel and peer thru the center cutout of the caliper top to see down onto the pads thickness.
12-02-2007, 07:57 PM
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
OHHHH auction car- no inspection required....
This is my 4th car that i bought from auction this year. No big problems, just regular maintenance.
I drive couple of months and sell it. This one I'm planning to drive a little longer if no problems will come up.
P.S. Do I need to resurface front rotors?
12-02-2007, 09:42 PM
#7
That will depend on the condition of the rotor- if pads got really low it could be scarred bad. Its normal to resurface them with first set of pads and replace at 2nd set.
They tend to warp easily
They tend to warp easily
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12-02-2007, 10:41 PM
#8
resurface =blag
replace!!
also, like others said. check fluid/pressure and maybe bleed the lines
there is a recall on these cars for the VSA module, it pumps air into the brake lines and can cause a seal to blow on the master cylinder...
also, if pressure wont build up in the lines the way it should, check your booster
replace!!
also, like others said. check fluid/pressure and maybe bleed the lines
there is a recall on these cars for the VSA module, it pumps air into the brake lines and can cause a seal to blow on the master cylinder...
also, if pressure wont build up in the lines the way it should, check your booster
12-03-2007, 10:14 AM
#10
He has Brembo fronts. The majority of the brake line is already metal to reduce the heat and pressure issue rubber lines have.
First think to do is a real inspection of the brake pads and rotors- and look into the recall/service bulletin.
ASSUMING auction car and salvage title are not in the same sentance on this vehicle!!!
acura 1-800-382-2238 x 5
First think to do is a real inspection of the brake pads and rotors- and look into the recall/service bulletin.
ASSUMING auction car and salvage title are not in the same sentance on this vehicle!!!
acura 1-800-382-2238 x 5
12-03-2007, 09:32 PM
#12
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Update:
The brake pads are almost new, BUT THEY DO HAVE METAL SENSORS ON THEM!!!
ROTORS ARE FINE TOO, RUSTY ON ENDS THOUGH.
FLUID LEVEL IS FINE.
Pedal when stopped goes about 3/4 down, not to the floor though.
No recall - called dealership
My buddy has the same car but with navi and 130K+. He resurfaced rotors and put OEM pads 1 week ago.
I test drove it today:
Pedal feels the same, BUT it sops muuuuuch better. I didn't test his brakes to the limit but while I was pulling out of a parking lot I felt that his brakes stop better.
Could it be bad/cheap brake pads? May be they weren't bedded properly. Should I bed them?
If I have to change pads - which ones to get?
Don't want to open lines since I don't feel like air is in the system.
AND THE TITLE IS CLEAR!!!
I don't know Y but people think cars at auction are all garbage.
The brake pads are almost new, BUT THEY DO HAVE METAL SENSORS ON THEM!!!
ROTORS ARE FINE TOO, RUSTY ON ENDS THOUGH.
FLUID LEVEL IS FINE.
Pedal when stopped goes about 3/4 down, not to the floor though.
No recall - called dealership
My buddy has the same car but with navi and 130K+. He resurfaced rotors and put OEM pads 1 week ago.
I test drove it today:
Pedal feels the same, BUT it sops muuuuuch better. I didn't test his brakes to the limit but while I was pulling out of a parking lot I felt that his brakes stop better.
Could it be bad/cheap brake pads? May be they weren't bedded properly. Should I bed them?
If I have to change pads - which ones to get?
Don't want to open lines since I don't feel like air is in the system.
AND THE TITLE IS CLEAR!!!
I don't know Y but people think cars at auction are all garbage.
12-03-2007, 10:35 PM
#13
Flush the fluid- it goes bad with age- 3 years max between changes, in ideal conditions
Fluid will change how the pedal feels and how well its working.
spend 6 bucks on new fluid
I am freaky about auction because MANY members unknowingly buy a retitled car or bummer car from auction and find its salvage with trans problem or.....
the average aziner is not a specialist in spotting good cars at auction- you appear to be- thats a great skill ! I apologize for the bad info.
Could easily be cheap pads-I seem to be wrong about the tab squeelers and them being there- 4th time today I was wrong about something!!!
Hawk HPS pads work great on Brembo- or brembo pads themself
try good pad bedding to see if it helps after fluid change- this method works well
http://heeltoeauto.com/httech/YaBB.pl?num=1184261899
Fluid will change how the pedal feels and how well its working.
spend 6 bucks on new fluid
I am freaky about auction because MANY members unknowingly buy a retitled car or bummer car from auction and find its salvage with trans problem or.....
the average aziner is not a specialist in spotting good cars at auction- you appear to be- thats a great skill ! I apologize for the bad info.
Could easily be cheap pads-I seem to be wrong about the tab squeelers and them being there- 4th time today I was wrong about something!!!
Hawk HPS pads work great on Brembo- or brembo pads themself
try good pad bedding to see if it helps after fluid change- this method works well
http://heeltoeauto.com/httech/YaBB.pl?num=1184261899
12-03-2007, 10:44 PM
#17
thats NOT a RECALL its a ~service bulletin~ Totally different, but sometimes the minimum wage phone person at acura hears recall and looks- nope no recall-goodbye
You have to ask the for service bulletins and tech notes, kept in different books
Take it in and see what the dealer says
You have to ask the for service bulletins and tech notes, kept in different books
Take it in and see what the dealer says
12-04-2007, 12:54 AM
#18
yea, sorry for the confusion of words... it is a TSB, not a recall.. but its still a problem that needs addressing.. a problem that i experienced first hand, and acura couldnt "fix" the problem for me... they simply told me... "... these cars have mushy brakes, its normal"
12-04-2007, 06:28 AM
#19
Intermediate
Thread Starter
hmm. interesting.
in this TSB it says if the pedal feels normal - don't diagnose anything.
My pedal feels normal - when parked it doesn't go to the floor, I'd say 3/4 way.
When Driving it travels a little less before brakes heat up , then same 3/4(with my full foot pressure) but car just doesn't stop and it happens after like 2 hard stops from 60mph to 0.
in this TSB it says if the pedal feels normal - don't diagnose anything.
My pedal feels normal - when parked it doesn't go to the floor, I'd say 3/4 way.
When Driving it travels a little less before brakes heat up , then same 3/4(with my full foot pressure) but car just doesn't stop and it happens after like 2 hard stops from 60mph to 0.
12-04-2007, 08:58 AM
#20
Originally Posted by betep
Update:
The brake pads are almost new, BUT THEY DO HAVE METAL SENSORS ON THEM!!!
ROTORS ARE FINE TOO, RUSTY ON ENDS THOUGH.
FLUID LEVEL IS FINE.
Pedal when stopped goes about 3/4 down, not to the floor though.
No recall - called dealership
My buddy has the same car but with navi and 130K+. He resurfaced rotors and put OEM pads 1 week ago.
I test drove it today:
Pedal feels the same, BUT it sops muuuuuch better. I didn't test his brakes to the limit but while I was pulling out of a parking lot I felt that his brakes stop better.
Could it be bad/cheap brake pads? May be they weren't bedded properly. Should I bed them?
If I have to change pads - which ones to get?
Don't want to open lines since I don't feel like air is in the system.
AND THE TITLE IS CLEAR!!!
I don't know Y but people think cars at auction are all garbage.
The brake pads are almost new, BUT THEY DO HAVE METAL SENSORS ON THEM!!!
ROTORS ARE FINE TOO, RUSTY ON ENDS THOUGH.
FLUID LEVEL IS FINE.
Pedal when stopped goes about 3/4 down, not to the floor though.
No recall - called dealership
My buddy has the same car but with navi and 130K+. He resurfaced rotors and put OEM pads 1 week ago.
I test drove it today:
Pedal feels the same, BUT it sops muuuuuch better. I didn't test his brakes to the limit but while I was pulling out of a parking lot I felt that his brakes stop better.
Could it be bad/cheap brake pads? May be they weren't bedded properly. Should I bed them?
If I have to change pads - which ones to get?
Don't want to open lines since I don't feel like air is in the system.
AND THE TITLE IS CLEAR!!!
I don't know Y but people think cars at auction are all garbage.
Air from the VSA modulator-control unit has entered
the brake system.
Bleeding brakes isn't hard.
12-04-2007, 01:02 PM
#21
3rd Gear
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 48
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Same issue with Spongy Brakes
About 4 weeks ago I took my car into the Acura Dealer to have them check my brakes. My issue was that I needed to put the pedal into the floor to stop. They diagnosed the problem as a defective master cylinder. I had them replace the master cylinder and about 2 weeks later I had the same issue I took my car in last Monday 11/26 and they are still not 100% sure what the problem is but they are leaning towards the VSA modulator control unit. The service manager was not aware of the Service Bulletin so I brought it to his attention, since my TL is out of warranty I am hoping for a goodwill repair and a refund for the master cylinder since that was clearly not the issue. The service manager has been driving my TL for the last week and it has not shown any signs of the previous problem but they are not comfortable giving me back the car until they have accurately diagnosed the problem.
12-04-2007, 03:13 PM
#22
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
He has Brembo fronts. The majority of the brake line is already metal to reduce the heat and pressure issue rubber lines have.
First think to do is a real inspection of the brake pads and rotors- and look into the recall/service bulletin.
ASSUMING auction car and salvage title are not in the same sentance on this vehicle!!!
acura 1-800-382-2238 x 5
First think to do is a real inspection of the brake pads and rotors- and look into the recall/service bulletin.
ASSUMING auction car and salvage title are not in the same sentance on this vehicle!!!
acura 1-800-382-2238 x 5
12-04-2007, 05:17 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Donkey Punch
About 4 weeks ago I took my car into the Acura Dealer to have them check my brakes. My issue was that I needed to put the pedal into the floor to stop. They diagnosed the problem as a defective master cylinder. I had them replace the master cylinder and about 2 weeks later I had the same issue I took my car in last Monday 11/26 and they are still not 100% sure what the problem is but they are leaning towards the VSA modulator control unit. The service manager was not aware of the Service Bulletin so I brought it to his attention, since my TL is out of warranty I am hoping for a goodwill repair and a refund for the master cylinder since that was clearly not the issue. The service manager has been driving my TL for the last week and it has not shown any signs of the previous problem but they are not comfortable giving me back the car until they have accurately diagnosed the problem.
I KNOW YOUR PAIN!!!
I joined this website almost 2 years ago, because my 8 day old 06 Acura TL had a defective master cylinder. my first thread/post was about that part of my car and how it was always f'ed up. Acura swore they fixed it 3 times, by the 4th time i bought it in, they told me there is nothing wrong with the car, the brakes just have a "spongy" feel
over the years, the master was changed 3 times... everytime it felt strong for 3-4 days, then the pedal sank to the ground again, and nobody knew what it was
Acura could not figure it out, until it was too late.... after i wrecked my car, a specialist examined the car, and they came back with Tracion Control Module/ABS failure... or as we know it, VSA failure. I would follow up on that TSB..
12-04-2007, 07:36 PM
#25
I thought the 6 speeds all had Brembo fronts?
When I looked at an 05 it has Brembos, and most of the line was metal with a very small section of rubber. Spirited driving will heat the brakes and rubber lines and cause spongy pedal- but it should be better when cool. Also if you have boiled the brake fluid in the process- it will give spongy pedal.
First thing is to check for air with a simple bleed to the LF, if there is air- see dealer regarding TSB
If everyone posting brake probs would state type of caliper- rotor and pads- we could figure things out a lot faster for them~
When I looked at an 05 it has Brembos, and most of the line was metal with a very small section of rubber. Spirited driving will heat the brakes and rubber lines and cause spongy pedal- but it should be better when cool. Also if you have boiled the brake fluid in the process- it will give spongy pedal.
First thing is to check for air with a simple bleed to the LF, if there is air- see dealer regarding TSB
If everyone posting brake probs would state type of caliper- rotor and pads- we could figure things out a lot faster for them~
12-04-2007, 09:37 PM
#26
well, the VSA TSB applies to all 6mt/5at... the only thing different with the brembos is knuckles, abs sensors, and "pipe" which i believe is the brake line... im not sure if the brembo brake line is SS or not... might as well get a pair, they are good for this exact reason
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