bkkrehbiel

2004 TL Automatic, 107k miles

I replaced the timing belt, water pump, idler pulley, auto tensioner, adjuster pulley and drive belt. In addition I replaced the spark plugs (NGK Iridium same as the originals) and thermostat. I checked the timing marks a number of times after installation and after rotating the crank 5-6 times and all three marks were within a 1/16". If I would have moved them a tooth on the timing belt they would have been further off and in all honesty they looked dead on.

I put everything back together and started it up. The check engine light is on, the VSA and the ! inside the triangle are all lit. It seemed to be idling pretty smooth but was idling a bit lower than before the timing belt change. I read in the service manual to accelerate up to 2500 rpms and then let it decelerate down to 1000 rpms to relearn. I did this while going around the block and returned to the garage. At the garage I revved it a little to see if it would smooth out but it will not rev above 3000 rpms. Cuts out at that point and when I let off the gas it dies sometimes or idles real low.

I know I should have the codes read but I do not want to drive it again if there is something serious wrong. My guess is pull the timing covers off again and check the marks up against the block to once again verify timing. Looking at the marks on the covers everything still seems right.

Let me know if you have any thoughts and or possible solutions.

bkkrehbiel

A couple more things.

I followed the writeup by Majofo using brake cleaner to clean the block after wiping up the coolant from the water pump removal. Could the brake cleaner have damaged the crank position sensor (CKP)? I sprayed it generously on the block above it and I'm sure it ran down onto it. I wiped everything with rags and blew compressed air to dry everything off.

bkkrehbiel

False alarm. I must have been too tired when I finished up last night. Tonight after work I took a look and noticed I forgot to plug the connector on top of the air tube that goes to the air box. I unplugged it thinking I would remove the intake and air box. Anyways its running great now.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Glad it worked out for you and a simple fix as I had no clue with the symptoms listed.

Majofo

I was going to reply asking this.

I did the same changing out the thermostat. Put it back, pulled the neg cable.. put it back. No issue.

Glad I could help.

Majofo

The little guy with at red & green wire no? This is the IAT sensor.

Edosan

Help! I have the same exact problem on my 04 TL (6 spd).
Changed the timing belt and water pump only to have the engine mil lamp and the VSA (both the "VSA and the "!") lamps on. Low power, seems engine will not rev above 2K in first gear. Rechecked all the timing marks and all looks well. Not clear to me how you fixed this. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Bearcat94

All your sensors are re-connected correctly as noted above?

Edosan

Yes. I saw this post and just tried this - lamps still on.

Edosan

I just realized I cracked the APP sensor while changing the belt. The wrench I was using to rotate the rear cam slipped, (the alignment must have been on the cam lobe as it wanted to spring forward) any way the wrench contacted the sensor and cracked the case. So I assuming (always dangerous) changing the sensor will cure the problem? Any idea on part cost?

Edosan

Just checked the APP sensor resistance values per the shop manual and they looked OK i.e. in spec. It definitely has a crack on the plastic case so it probably should be fixed. ...any ideas? Getting frustrated....

Bearcat94

I think this is the APP for your car: http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...s=&view=normal


As far as the other, if it's still giving multiple warning lights and won't rev over a few thousand RPM, that sounds like "Limp Mode". From the description, that still sounds like a sensor issue.

If it's just a CEL, that might be from having the sensor disconnected and should go away in a few hours of driving.

Edosan

Is it OK to drive it in limp mode? I could try to get down to the local Advance Auto Parts and use theie scan tool to check for a code....

nfnsquared

yes

Majofo

APP Sensor.

Edosan

OK. Going to order the APP sensor. Will see if local dealer will match on line price of ~$130. Will up date later this week on status.

nfnsquared

I'd get the codes read before you spend money on the app sensor. I really doubt just a cracked case could make it go bad, plus you said it measures "in spec". There are lots of issues besides the app sensor that could put the car in limp mode.

There are at least 6, maybe 8 sensors that get disconnected just to do the timing belt change. If you forgot anyone of those, it could be the cause.

I'd limp it down to autozone and get the codes read, will take them about 2 minutes...

Edosan

I just realized there are two tests for the APP sensor: Sensor A and Sensor B (even through there is only one connector/sensor). I only checked the sensor A part, will go home tonight and check the Sensor B part. Maddening!

Majofo

Just get the code checked.

hrod26

@edosan Get the code. If its the APP sensor, this same thing happened to me on my timing belt replacement two weeks ago. Had the wrench on rear bank cam sprocket when valve spring force snapped the wrench onto the APP sensor. Didn't think anything of it til started the car. Was in limp mode with a CEL and no accel pedal response. Ran 2 codes for APP sensor. Replaced it and now everything is great. Surprising this may have happened to someone else. Btw mine was not cracked.

Edosan

OK pulled three codes:

P2127
P2649
P2122

P2127 & P2122 are related to the APP sensor. Probably need to be replaced?

P2649 is the VTEC solenoid, is this because of the APP sensor failure or is this something different?

hrod26

I had 2122 and 2128. I would def say replace the app. I really don't know about the vtec solenoid...

Edosan

OK. Agree with replacing the APP sensor.

In checking the VTEC sensor (single green wire), it appears the wire has come out of the terminal end at the connector (not the one that's potted at the sensor). Hopefully I can repair this.

Bearcat94

I'll bet that damaged VTEC soleniod is what put you into "limp mode"; makes sure you can't rev high enough to activate VTEC.

Edosan

I think both of the sensors "damaged" would cause the vehicle to go in to limp mode as the VSA system also controls the throttle as well as the ABS when activated.

Majofo

Fix the connector. Reset the computer.. try again.

Edosan

If I have to remove the Vtec solenoid to repair the connector, how do I get at it? Do I have to remove the oil filter and its boss from the engine?

Edosan

OK ended up taking the oil filter and its boss off. Repaired sensor wire and checked sensor resistance - all OK and in spec.

Erased codes - now down to one: P2127 (APP sensor)

Meaning the Vtec sensor is fixed! Finally some good news on this job!

Ordered APP sensor on line - should be here next week.

NCTL05

iTrader: (9)

I did exactly the very same thing when I did my timing belt and got the same result. But I took off my manifold and gave it and the EGR a good cleaning. I'd say after doing the whole job by yourself, this is forgiveable. Great job on the DIY!

nfnsquared

Nice work!! Thanks for keeping us updated.

Note to self: The APP sensor is a sissy little gurly-man...can't take a little face slap from a wrench....

hrod26

Guess we need to have Majofo update his procedure with 'cover APP sensor with 3" of styrofoam' or 'build wood box around APP sensor'...haha

Edosan

Got the APP sensor today, installed it and ALL IS WELL! Car drives great. I also adjusted the throttle cable and the pedal feels 100% better. A big THANKS to the folks who responded with help and guidance. I will put together lessons learned on the TB change out and post them this weekend. Thanks again!

Majofo

I explicitly stated in the DIY to take your time and most importantly, I take no responsibility if you fuck something up.

Sounds like the OP tried to knock it out quickly.. seriously.

Glad you're running again OP.

jdprows

I know this thread is a little old but I'm hoping someone will see this and give me some insight. I have a 2005 TL 6MT. I just had the timing belt replaced by a local mechanic (had the kit done: water pump, tensioners, pulleys, etc). I got the car back two days ago and I am having the exact issue described above (The check engine light is on, the VSA and the ! inside the triangle are all lit. and the engine runs really rough after sitting over night shutting off sometimes, after driving it for a few minutes it smoothes out and stays on but has the same problems if rpms get above about 5k.)

My mechanic told me that this might happen and that it would just take driving it a little bit for the engine to reset the timing, but that if the issue persists that I will need to have my crank shaft sensor replaced. I called him today and told him that the issues aren't getting better and now he wants to charge me for a new sensor (will do the labor free). Am I getting taken for a ride on this? How could the sensor suddenly go bad? If he is right and not trying to hose me, what is a good price for a crank shaft sensor?

Majofo

Somebody didn't disconnect the battery when doing this..

Check your timing marks. If they line up.. good. Check the sensor connections behind firewall and on throttle body.. did he replace your plugs?

jdprows

He checked the plugs and said they had about 50% left so he left them. I just don't understand why the part would need to be replaced if it was working fine before the TB job. Everyone else on posting to this thread who had to replace sensors was the result of error on their part.

Majofo

If he actually removed or fucked with the sensor, he could have very well messed it up. The guys in the shop put a rag over it and don't fuck it with for a reason. It will get quite a bit of coolant on it when he pulls the water pump, so if he didn't unplug the battery or dry the area out with some brake cleaner and shop rags, he may have also caused damage.

jdprows

That's helpful info. What I need to know so that I can ague him trying to charge me for a new one is whether or not its possible for the sensor to go bad at no fault of his. I just don't see how that would be possible.

outfire

Hi there,

I am so sorry that I have hijacked this thread and please forgive me. I do really need to reach out to any of the Acura Tl 2004 owner for helps.

I am not a mechanic instead of a DIY person from help of video and only workshop manaul so my knowledge is very limited.

My brother car is a TL 2004 with 3,15000.00 KM equal to 1,95732.00miles.

I have work on of the toyota cars I owned so I am very comfortable ( but everyone make mistake sometime )with no busting sensors/ cross-threaded bolts and nuts and removing parts from the engine and do all sort of testes.

Today and yesterday I was helping my brother replacing the water pump, the tensioner and the tensioner pulley after removing the CS pulley and the power steering pump, even remove the engine mount and replace it with new.

Futher into the process. after removing all the timing belt cover. I have notice that the belt was still in very good condition so we decided to re-used the belt. I have make all the mark with white marker on the belt so just a matter of re-insert the way it is. meanwhile we did lose alot of coolant when removed the pump and also spills lots of power steering fluid and it got onto what I think it is the bank 1 sensor O2 sensor.

after putting everything back on. when my brother tried to start the engine. it looks like the belt is very stuck that it will not turn the engine (like the CF and the CAM).

followed the Gate kit manual. we turned the crack pulley six times and after we tried to started the engine. the sound of stuck gone but the engine will not start. we have gas coming into the engine but it will just not turned over.

it sounds like this gentleman described. "2004 MDX Timing Belt replacement.

First mistake:

I did NOT check TDC because I didn't know how. (durrr) Of course, the front cam had moved, but I had paint marked them and the belt before removing it: I put the belt on the bench and very carefully paint marked the new belt (correct side facing up, tooth by tooth). I installed the belt after having a helper push the cams back into position with all marks lined up.

The car does not start...clearly struggling against some compression (re-re-regaahh). I tried that ONCE. It didn't jam up, so I think I'm clear...

I need to know the steps to getting the cams and the crank set to their correct TDC positions. As I understand it's 2:1 . But I need to know what I need to move "first" so I don't clatter a valve into a piston.

Thank you"

after we removed the belt again and now that I look at the service manual somewhere founded of the web. it said that if old belt is re-used. all the pullies musted aligned with the TDC and that I could get the CF and FC to lines up with the TDC. What I am about to do now is to remove all the back 3 spark plugs and rotate the RC to the TDC and re-install everything and hope for the best.

Please chime in with your best advice if I am doing it right before I broke the kid's engine.

Source for help now:-
Acurazine.
online work shop manual.
just bought a Automanualsource for TL 2004
reading of onlines.

Please and please help me out as I am so frustrated and tire but will never give up.

Thanks a bunch for everyone's helps.

Sincerely,

Mike

Slpr04UA6

^check through this thread, may have your answers within.


Wish I could link you to the post with the answer......


https://acurazine.com/forums/third-g...*pics*-784622/