Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

ok i refuse to read this whole thread.

my car is sluggish too. i spoke to P2R and he's told me to install the intake an see.

I kept the car stock bcuz i wanted to run on the dyno bone stock.engine mods in my sig are still in my trunk and never installed. i did yesterday and i was a bit disappointed. the car just had low numbers. Pass427 said that we'll take a look at it but im trying to trouble shoot this while i wait. ive been in out of the engine today. i knw you can only slightly feel and hear vtec in our cars with the air box but wen it was on the dyno i dont even think i heard it or maybe i just wasnt paying attention.

ChuckyD

Sorry guys, I didn't even realize this thread was still alive after my last post. In short, YES the Knock sensor did the trick for me with my mid to top end power loss\sluggish crap feeling. So I am a happy camper when i'm whipping around, passing cars, etc. HOWEVER... I found that i had 2 separate issue. The mid\top end power was only have the issue (maybe 2/3 really). I have an issue with performance off the line as well. Before I was a whole civic when the car was acting up.... slow through the whole power band, etc. NOW, im only half a civic off the line. When i hit about 4 - 4500 RPM, it feels like it turned the turbos on (maybe not that dramatic... but still noticeable). Needless to say, I am my dealers worst nightmare and being as persistent as i was before. I think they tried to blow me off for a bit and told me they were waiting to hear from Tech Line but i called them on their bluff and starting talking to the Director and used the "bought 10 cars from this dealership" story. They even began to tell me the story of "there is no code coming up" so i said, yeah and there wasn't a code for the first issue either but over the course of almost 2 weeks you tested, analyzed and DIAGNOSED the problem and found the resolution because they are Mechanics and thats what they are supposed to do. So I asked them why they weren't doing that again and how it was possible they collected all the data they needed in one - 1 day visit a week prior. By the time I walked out of there they were apologizing and that I would hear from the Director the next day. The next day I got a call from the Service Manager (who I feel was the one that was avoiding me and the problem) and told me he had heard from Tech Line and they had an accord with a similar issue and it ended up being a partially melted 02 sensor and Cat issue. So they are taking my car next week for a minimum of 3 days to check that out and run through all those tests again, as needed, with Tech Line.... Later that day i also the Director called, as he said he would. He apologized again and reassured me he would find a resolution to the issue.
So we'll see..... i'm and confident they will actually put the full effort into it this time. At the same time, i don't blame them for hoping I would go away... it really is a difficult issue to diagnose. BUT you take the good with the bad and do what you have to do in the end.... hopefully they will now.

Inaccurate

They are stalling you for the weather to get cooler.

Half joking, half true. Please note what the weather temps are during the times that the car losses power.

Did you get a chance to read my thread...
The Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here)
Curious what you think about this.

ChuckyD

I agree 100%. Which is why I pressed to have the first resolved during the summer months. Thankfully, even with the swing of cooler weather in NY, there is no change in the off the line\lack of power issue. As a matter of fact, I considered it normal performance until they cleared up the top and issue. I then realized there is no way it's normal.

ChuckyD

I did actually, i was ready to try some of it. Then something hit me.... Why should I go all through that just to make the car perform the way it is supposed to from the get go. I think I may do some of the things you have listed there, plus install my AEM CAI which is sitting in my garage untouched, AFTER the dealer fixes everything.

It all sounds very interesting and a viable work around\solution.

ChuckyD

For those of you who would like to see the part number of the Knock Sensor that was replaced, here it is:
ACC 30530-P8F-A01

hmeeks

I had my Fuel Pressure Regulator replaced for this same problem today! its been running great since they finished with it! Maybe have someone run an engine diagnostic on it mine never tripped my check engine light but showed up on diagnostic test

ChuckyD

Thats already been changed. Mine was about 10 - 15 lbs under where it was supposed to be.

NE14RoxCJ

I just ordered a knock sensor, wire, and connector, and also, an intake air temp sensor. I'll change the IAT sensor first and see what happens. Mine is getting really annoying. I've been watching my Snap-on scanner for a couple of days, and can't see anything wrong with the temp reading. Other than it is hot. But it starts off near ambient temp then warms up as the coolant temp rises (Thottle body coolant lines are still intact). Ignition advance is wierd, though. My scanner doesn't show knock, but advance is all over the place. We'll see what happens.

Inaccurate

Ignition advance has a big impact on performance. That is, the lack of adequate ignition advance has a big negative impact on performance and gas mileage.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

What is the fix for inadequate ignition advance?

Inaccurate

That is a tough one to solve.

The ECU controls the ignition timing based on inputs. We can't control what the ECU does (hardcoded).... well, some people might with complex aftermarket electronic controllers that are not TL friendly.

But, we can try to control three of the primary inputs that the ECU uses to determine ignition timing.

1) Knock Sensor - Use Premium grade fuel. And indirectly tied to this is load. Less load/weight will help reduce pinging.(hint = Putting the TL on a diet (click here))

2) Intake Air Temp Sensor = Keep the IAT Sensor cool as possible. The ECU will subtract ignition timing as the IAT Sensor gets hotter. Please notice that I am saying "as the sensor get hotter. I am *not* saying "as the air gets hotter". In my opinion, these are two different things. I feel that the sensor is poorly designed. The sensor probe is reading the heat, not from the air, but from the conducted heat as it travels from the manifold to the sensor housing and into the probe. Keeping the heat away from the manifold... will keep the heat away from the sensor housing... will keep the sensor probe cooler... will allow more ignition timing. (Hint = The Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here))

3) Automatic Transmission Temp Sensor = Same as above in #2. Except that I feel that the trans can stay cooler if the underhood temps are kept cooler. If the trans stays cooler, the ECU will be less likely to subtract ignition timing. (Hint = same as above in #2)

NOTE - None of this reply is based on facts. Just my working theory that is "working" to fix the problem for me.

ChuckyD

FYI, My TL is still in the shop. It has been there since last Tuesday. I would write the list of things they have checked\swapped, but its probably easier just to tell you what the result is when I get it back. lol...
They have been working with Acura Tech Line everyday day. If by tomorrow they do not have a fix, they are calling an Acura Field Engineer in to try to fix her.

Inaccurate

Chuck, thanks for keeping us updated.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to here. I thought the knock sensor was a good fix for you. So far so good with mine.

ChuckyD

Well, It was for one problem. There were apparently 2 issues with my car. They are working on the second now. I'm very happy that it worked for you! You dont have any off the line issues, correct?

ChuckyD

They checked my Cats and 02 sensors... all clear.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

Nope! After installing the new APP and IAT sensor, the my low-end power was amazing! I still get some sort of heat soak, but nowhere as bad as before.

NedShneebly

Adrian, what symptoms pointed to IAT sensor? just loss of power, or surging?

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

Replacing the IAT restored some power. The APP effected the surging.

ChuckyD

In case you all were wondering (probably not), the car is still at the dealership. it will be 2 weeks tomorrow....

ChuckyD

WOW! So a few hours after I posted that message, I got a call from the dealership telling me they fixed the car. They claim the Cat's were the culprit of my off the line problems... They took them from another TL, installed them on my TL and the problem was gone. However, despite being hopeful, I am a realist. I will be the judge as to whether or not she is fixed completely I should have her by Tuesday evening. I will let you all know what the outcome is.

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

I hope that does solve your problem. In my case, I have the infamous pro-cats. So I'm good now. Maybe you should go ahead an invest in the pre-cat deletes.

AcPimpin

iTrader: (2)

i had a problem like this....my problem was a bad rear brake system. my driver side brake was constantly engaged on my rotor. which was the reason why on hills it felt like i was carrying an anchor and only could pick up speed while at high speed and high rpm. i guess when it overcame the friction of the brake on the rotor.

ChuckyD

Update, the used Exhaust system they put in my car worked great. The Brand new Cats they took out of the box today, didn't work. Back to square one. Swapping out Muffler tomorrow. After that, Acura Field Engineer coming on site... The saga continues...

ChuckyD

One thing I am failing to mention is the work and effort they are putting in to really trying to fix this issue. It seems like they have been putting in more effort than the other dealerships I have heard you all talk about.

Again,
Island Acura in Wantagh, NY

Inaccurate

So, the tech takes your car on a test drive, and perhaps the underhood temps don't reach "meltdown" levels yet, and the problem seems gone. Later, they drive it again, perhaps for a longer time or later in the day when the daily weather temps are warmer, and the problem reappears when the underhood temps reach "meltdown" levels. Those were questions.... sorta thinking out loud type of pondering.

On the onther hand, I see that the NY temps for today were only around 78 to 80 degrees. This should be reaching the lower limits for the "meltdown" to occur. I think most TL's begin to run great when the temps get below 70 or 75.

Perhaps other Acuraziners can share their experiences of when (at what weather temps) that their TL begin to have snappy performance from the cooler temps outside.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

it seems as my TL is having similar problems. id like to talk to you more about the specifics and hopefully meet up so we can compare. im local to island acura. PM me

ChuckyD

Actually, the temperature doesn't matter for my low end problem. Within minutes after driving at temps as low as 60, the performance is gone. I specifically asked them if they let the car run before saying they think it is fixed. They confirmed that they drove the car for about 6 miles and let the car idle for about 15 minutes before the manager went for a ride and confirmed the techs findings. All was set and done, they were convinced they resolved the issue. Ordered and over nighted the new Cat's, installed them... and..... Utter Disappointment!

However, Temperature had a huge impact on my overall sluggish issue. Knock sensor did the trick for that.... It's just my off the line performance that is really sucking A$$... as soon as I hit 4K RPMs in 1st gear, she fly's through the rest of the gears...

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

My car does pretty well at temp lower than 90 degrees, but only if I drive civilize. This is after replace the sensors of course.

After the replacements, different motor oil, and weather conditions; I'm inclined to believe that gas and/or fuel system has something to do with my situation. My car is running alot smoother and stronger, but it has it's moments. I can't even remember if I ever had my fuel filter changed or not. Anyone know the recommended mileage to replace those?

At one point I thought about fuel level. If I do a fill up, my car feel great, but starts acting a little erry below half a tank. Might be in my head, but who knows. My father or someone I true told me since I started driving to never let the tank get lower than a quarter. The fuel system would start picking up the crap at the bottom of the tank. And I believed it!

I admit that I use Exxon only because I had the card for years. But never had a problem with running it in my car. I do put in Shell every now and again, but don't really feel a difference. So I stuck with Exxon.

Something to think about I guess.

ChuckyD

Sorry, I forgot to answer the original question...

I would say starting at around 75 - 80 degrees, if I was driving normal, she started to act up in the stop and go traffic. It wouldn't go away until i drove on the parkway and got some air flowing through her to coll her off. As soon as I would get off the parkway and hit the first traffic light, it started all over again. Lower than 70, it was harder for me to tell. Then again this run with the dealership started back in April I believe. Im sure it was below 70 at that time of year in NY. May have just taken a little more for the car to start acting up.

NedShneebly

Think I mentioned it but, my 06 5AT spent its 1st 3 years in Florida. During 100+ days, the car was a little saggy but not to the point my wife would even notice - just hot weather performance. Recently left VA, temps low 70's and she ran like a monter. Think 70 & below is the turbo temp for the 3.2L

t0talacuratl

iTrader: (3)

Ok one more thing you guys can try if you have not done this. I seafoamed my car about over 14k miles ago, and it was a great improvement. I did it yesterday and WOW! After all the smoke and blowing it out, my low end power was crazy! I didn't ever know I was so restricted. I guess I need to start using another brand of gas or something.

NE14RoxCJ

I tried the seafoam thing and didn't notice any difference. I replaced my IAT a couple of weeks ago and the sluggishness is "better" but it is defenitely heat related. It got warm here again today and it was right back to being a turd. Traffic on the interstate slowed to around 20mph and I had the A/C on. I thought it would never get back up to speed after the traffic cleared. I guess the next thing is the Knock Sensor I have sitting in the garage.

erick3

Is there a way to tell if the IAT sensor is bad? I just did my belts, plugs and water pump. I was hoping to see if that would help with the "overheating," but it didn't. although the car does shift faster (didn't have (dunno whhhy) the timing belt tensioner). how much is the IAT sensor and is it a pain to replace? easy like the o2 sensor???

ChuckyD

I think the Knock sensor would be your next best bet.

ChuckyD

extremely easy... take all of 5 minutes.

paghetti88

funny, i live in pittsburgh and the temp has been in the low 40s all week. car seemed to be running very strong until i would start sitting in traffic, then it would perform poorly. but on the coldest day we have had yet with the daily temp getting to 37, the damn check engine light came on. i didnt notice any difference in performance, so i guessing this is related to my overall performance issue. or atleast i hope. anyhow im taking it to the dealer to have it scanned by the end of the week, i will be sure to post the results. hopefully whatever was breaking finally broke.

jaggedaz

NE14RoxCJ -- did you ever install the knock sensor? I was curious because both of our cars are at similar mileage and I'm experiencing a lot of the same issues you are.

Most recently I've developed the shudder when shifting from 3rd to 4th and light surging while at cruising speeds. I'm ordering a new APP sensor as well as the 3rd/4th gear pressure switches and doing a transmission flush.

I've always had the sluggishness when it's hot out or when stuck in stop and go traffic though. It seems like the IAT sensor doesn't improve the situation much. I was hoping the knock sensor had done the trick for you.

NE14RoxCJ

The knock sensor is still sitting in the garage. I had other issues to deal with, like fixing the dealer screw ups. Also, it got cooler and I haven't noticed the problem anymore. I'm sure as soon as it gets warm again, I'll be jumping in for the knock sensor. I hope to get it done before then, but since I can't notice any problem right now, I'd hate to change it and not know if I fixed anything. I'll probably wait till it starts acting up again.