I kind of agree with your dealer concerns. They can be madening with rattles and some appearence stuff. That said, with the sensor engine map type stuff they have a big advantage over a private party. The diagnostic system at a dealer can look at 20+ parameters including MAF, TPS, temp reading, timing and on and on. They can look at any sensor and see if they are getting an errant voltage or resistance across it. The state of the art in racing is MOTEC and the TL has a more complicated system than that. It sounds like this worked out though.

Strange, but the complicated stuff is easier for the dealer in many ways than putting my rock guards on straight which was really tough for them to do. for God's sake.

 

I understand that the dealers have a lot better equipment to help them out versus your typical garage or shadetree mechanic. Yet at the same time all that stuff does no good if you dont have a tech that knows how to use it or what to look for. Also, most techs probably wouldn't notice a difference in the temps from this sensor. Not saying that they won't but I am willing to bet a lot of them will overlook it.

I am a better tech than half the ones at these dealerships not to mention a pretty good problem solver when it comes to cars. I have always and will always do my own repairs or mods to my vehicles within reason. Obviously if this didnt fix the problem I would have had to go a different route. However, it seemed to work for one AZ member and that was enough for me to give it a shot. Hell it's a $35 part.

If it's something I don't feel comfortable messing with, is an expensive fix, or just down right time consuming then I will leave it to dealers. The three reasons I bought the extended warranty are for the engine, tranny, and the Nav/electronics.

Also, I feel more comfortable when my car is in my hands because I know somebody isn't out joyriding, beating on my car, or just plain fucking something up. I know there are a lot of good techs out there and I'm not saying that there aren't. At the same time places like acurazine give us the tools and information to help one another out. Sometimes it's just worth avoiding the hassles of going to the dealership especially if it's an inexpensive and easy fix.

 

I don't disagree. The hassle factor for $35 is worth giving it a shot.

I really agree on doing work on the car so you get to know it. It really builds brand loyalty as well. I think if the manufacturers were forward thinking they would have techs on these boards. Once you know how to troubleshoot a TL problems it's harder to jump ship.

I think it's very rare that somebody would beat your car. They may do something stupid in the lot but they see so many of the cars they just want to fix it and move on.

One other thing I thought about when I read this thread. I've got a bunch of high end cars and the TL is the most finicky for gas. Granted it is in a high state of tune stock getting near the fabled 100hp/liter normally aspirated but still, it barks, coughs and in general run like crap on anything but the best fuel.

 

I replaced the IAT Sensor on my 06 Navi TL, and to no avail, I'm still having the issues....

Looks like back to the dealership shuffle for me....

Tom

 

Did you mean the IAC SENSOR ref : ACU 37880-PDA-E01?

 

So JDM5LUGHATCH is it always good so far after you changed the sensor ?

 

It seemed to have fixed it at first but it has since gone back to it's old ways. The difference now though is that it seems to take more extreme temps/humidity and stop and go traffic for it to act up than before. I am going to try changing the Tranny temp sensor and flushing the stock fluid out to Amsoil and go from there. IF I could find a way to install the tranny cooler then I would be fine I think.

 

Yes

 

After 48 hours at the dealership, they still cannot find anything, so I took the car back last night.

Literally 15 minutes after I left the dealership, the car started acting up again. This is driving me nuts.

Hopefully at lunch today I can get it to act up, and then take it to the service center.

I will keep you posted....

Tom

 

So far they have replaced the IAT and the EGR valve. They said it looked like my EGR was sticking....


Anyways, going in for my 4th visit this week. Still acting up, no difference at all.

 

I am 99% sure it is a tranny sensor or heat issue (tranny heat build up due to lack there of cooling). This problem only comes around the more I drive in SS mode. Drive in D and the car is fine. I think I am going to try and go back to a manual myself which might mean a new car assuming I can get a deal on the one I want.

 

I felt the same thing with my 2004 TL. Someone suggested to replace the stock air filter with a K&N filter and I immediately noticed an improvement. It's been pretty smooth for the last several thousand miles.

Maybe it's part pyschological and I'm certainly no expert, but the improved air flow seemed to make things better.

 

I think im having the same problem !! , hopefully someone will find out what causing this

 

JDM5lugHatch --

I was wondering if you ever found a solution for this problem? I'm having the same issue with mine and I think you were on the right track when you suspected that it was the transmission getting too hot.

My problem usually appears when I'm stuck in heavy traffic and the temp outside is relatively hot. I live in Arizona, so the problem is just going to get worse for me as Summer gets closer.

I've also noticed that the transmission shifts harder when it gets hot, especially at low RPMs into second or third gear. I've flushed the transmission fluid and re-filled with Honda ATF (3x drain and refill) and I'm still having the problem.

 

I replaced the air temp sensor and that seemed to work but a week later it was back to it's old ways. Got frustrated with it and traded the car in and went back to a car that I could have fun driving and modding. I gave up a lot of nice amenities in the TL but it feels so good to be in my new RSX Type S compared to the TL. Guess I couldn't force myself to grow up like I thought I could. LOL

 

Read this thread for the general content.

https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/04-m3-vs-03-a4-%2Avid%2A-146670/

The general content is that excessive underhood temps kills the TL performance. I discovered this myself too. By the way, there is one more thing that will kill the TL performance... read this too -

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/where-tl-tsx-151540/

 

The real problem on why this car is sluggish boils down to the tranny getting too hot. The oil jet kit is a joke and what it really needs is a tranny cooler. However, I made several attempts to map out my install and it basically seemed impossible. Well impossible to do the install correctly. I would bet if you could get a tranny cooler installed in the TL and all the other Honda products with the same problem I would be willing to bet that you would find the cure to the sluggishness. That and you could extend the life of the tranny seeing that high temps are what kill the tranny anyways.

Or you could go out and get a manual. That would solve your problems with the sluggish feeling as well.

 

anybody ever resolve this issue, mine does it all the time as soon at the outside temp. goes above 70+

 

Well, I wouldn't say I've resolved the problem, more like just got used to it. I adjusted my work hours so that I leave later in the day when there is less traffic and it's cooler outside, so it's not as big of an issue for me anymore.

I think that the car is just designed to dial down the performance of the engine when the engine compartment is getting too hot. I don't know that there is much you can do to help it.

 

Didn't someone say, maybe in a different post, that an air temperature sensor was the culprit?

 

well they thought it was the case and it helped in the beginning then it came to the same problem . something like that so nobody really ever verifyed this. I have my cai laying in the garage and im thinking if i put it in i would resolve the problem since there wouldnt be no more hot engine air sucked in. And also if i remove the plastic covers inside the hood it would realease some of that hot temperature too..

anybody any more comments on this one >>>. i just took a long trip to north carolina and as soon as the sun hit i have no torque at 65 mph. Really Sucks

 

Still under warranty?
Show the dealer this thread and ask what they think.

 

An intake is not going to fix the problem. I had an AEM and it didn't do anything to help. The problem is the tranny gets too hot.

 

Dealers won't be able to fix it unless they can come up with a better way to cool the tranny. Also, I dunno about your dealers but the dealers around here give attitude when you provide anything internet related to help fix the problem. The problem with that is that most of the people working at dealerships are idiots and I don't think that they want to be reminded of that at all. That's just my way of thinking though.

 

So the theory is the trans sends a signal to the ECU that says "i'm hot, cut the power!"?
Maybe the temperature sensor for the trans has a problem?
Would it only do this after driving it hard?

 

You can try the sensor part #28960-RKE-000 or 16 here http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

However, the sensor isn't going to help at all if the transmission keeps overheating. Maybe better cooling via custom tranny cooler and a new sensor would fix the problem. There is also a product called cool trans that you could try. http://www.pro-blend.com/coolseries.htm

 

I have an MT. Don't the AT models have something that cools the trans fluid? Either integrated into the radiator or a seperate air cooler? Maybe there is something wrong that prevents the fluid flow through the cooler?

 

It's a very poorly designed/engineered system. Hence the reason that when the '04's came out they recalled them for the oil jet kit on the tranny. Unfortunately it's cooling system is not efficient and unlike older Honda/Acura automatics where the tranny was cooled through the radiator. They were probably trying to cut costs and that was one way of doing it.


BTW, if your tranny starts to grind and or you are looking to change out the fluid try GM Syncromesh Friction Modified. That's if you havent already changed it for it. Highly recommend it.

 

I have a manual transmission, and the sluggishness I see described in this thread looks a lot like what I have noticed since I have my cars (2004 bought 6 months ago) but could not put the finger on (lack of power in certain conditions). Therefore it cannot be related to an AT.

I also have another piece of information. I went to the dealer sometime ago for a CEL that went on but only for a short period of time. The mechanic hooked his computer to look at the parameters. The CEL was due to the intake air temperature sensor that temporarily read -40C (impossible where I live, worst case could be -25C in winter). While I was there, we checked at the "live" intake temperature, and it was around 55-57C, way more than the 20C ambient temperature in the garage. I would have changed the sensor, but they did not have it stock. When we did this check, the car was very hot because I left it running in the parking while I was waiting.

Now when I read this thread, look at how the car behave in different conditions and look at the location of the IAT sensor, I think I might be starting to understand. The IAT sensor is mounted directly on the intake manifold, which is all in metal. I think that what is happening is that when the car is not moving, the intake temp increase (there is no air circulation under the hood and little in the intake), which heats up the IAT as well. Then his reading (air temperature) is biased by the casing temperature (56C in my case when the car is at stop), so the ECU has to adjust the timing to prevent knocking. I assume it will be even worst under a bright sun in the middle of summer because my car is black (needless to say the sun factor was not present in the garage).

Now the question is how will I solve that? The first thing I will try is to put some Teflon tape between the sensor and the intake (the same type used for plumbing). I would like to change the IAT as well the next time I go to the dealer. If it is not enough, then I will have to relocate that sensor, but I would like to stay with the stock intake. The only other thing I could think of so far is to put the whole sensor IN the air box, closer to the filter. But this operation is a bit risky, I have to make sure everything is tied up securely to make sure no parts ends up in the engine (FOD).

One thing that would help in the mean time is to be able to read the IAT sensor in real time, just like the dealer does. Any idea on how to do?

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I had the third gear problem when the clutch went out at 18k miles; I've posted about the clutch problems. My driving style shouldn't have contributed to the early clutch problem, the last clutch I had was at 140k when I sold the car, and it was still fine.
I think that the 3rd gear and the clutch problems are related, since the clutch problem appeared to be it never totally released. After the new clutch, it felt a LOT different, and all of the gears feel better. However, they put the new Acura fluid in it as a part of the clutch job, and it's only been about 1k miles since the new clutch.
If the 3rd gear issue comes back, I'll keep going to the dealer and asking them to check the clutch and replace with Acura fluid. Once it's out of warranty I may consider the GM SFM stuff.

 

Are 07 TL owners having this problem? What about the Type S owners with the RL engine and tranny?

 

Seriously if it comes back just change to the GM stuff. Why wait till it's out of warranty because it isn't going to affect your warranty by using it. There are thousands of threads all over the net of Honda/Acura owners using it. That and it eliminated the problems they had while using factory or aftermarket fluids. So far I have yet to see 1 thread stating GM Syncromesh masked my problems and now my tranny is fucked.

 

You can try the IAT sensor if you want. I bought one and swapped it out and the problem came back within a couple days (temps were also higher and the a/c was on and I had been in a lot of traffic). So at least with my vehicle it was not the sensor.

The AEM intake offers the option of moving the IAT sensor from the throttle body to the intake tube itself. This makes no difference with our situation. I am positive it is tranny related (for us AT owners). You on the other hand may actually have a malfunctioning sensor. BTW I believe it was less than $30 online for the sensor. Buy it, install it, and see what happens.

 

so is this a problem for every TL out there ?? and what can we do to cool the tranny better then.

 

If the 07 TL owners are not experiencening this problem maybe you could take a look at the changes in the 07 TL and trace it back from there. Just a thought.

 

There's a thread somewhere about "putting the TL on a diet" and describes that two things slow the TL down, heat and weight. I always noticed that the TL is much faster when I just start driving in the morning, but then when the engine gets hot its not as quick. The diet thread talks about taking out some of the noise padding under the hood to help not trap in the heat.

 

Sorry guys 07 TL in the house, same prob. waiting for a resolution... Im in Queens N.Y. my dealership is pretty good.... ima print this out and c what they say... i hope to come back with some good news

 

i was just wondering if anybody found a solution to this problem

 

I had an 05 with this problem, I traded it for an 06. Have not noticed it yet, but hot air is not as dense as cold air, and since Hondas run so lean the warm air will not provide a good combustion like cold air because less oxygen atoms are present.

 

My '07 TL has the sluggish issue too but even when the engine/transmission is cold. I don't think heat is the issue for me. If anyone has any ideas I would welcome them. Sometimes for no reason the car will run great for a few minutes and then it is back to being sluggish. Very moody.