yeah that old gasket is still on there too

 

OK, update.

I raised the car again, everything seems fine. The oil level did not drop.

I've checked my tranny fluid, power steering, engine oil, all levels are good.

Now I'm even more confused... Can it be that after I've cleaned the car from the oil, came to my garage which is heated, and that stuff melted? The liquid is greasy, definitely has oil in it.

 

hows the front and rear motor mounts? When my front died it leaked an odd oily fluid on the driveway
Or there was just water on the frame rail where oil sits after a change, and it got washed out and dripped on the driveway

 

X4 on the double gasketed. Remove the filter and see for yourself and solve this problem once and for all.

And if you noticed the oil due to an abnormal ticking in the engine, you were losing a substantial amount of oil pressure. *Some* damage has been done already. It may not be enough to ever matter and I'm sure the car runs great but keep in mind, the tapping was a result of losing oil pressure.

 

OK, so here is the verdict...

Do NOT use s2000 filters. These f*ckers build up too much pressure on the motor, so it was a filter fail, or in other words my fail for using these filters.

I've put oem TL filter (A02) on, and everything seems to be fine now. So Bearcat....do not use these effen filters. It was explained to me that the motor works harder to circulate the oil in the larger s2k filter causing more pressure build up..... and thus my lovely oil showers.

 

I've used the S2K filters for 60,000 miles now. There is less pressure drop with the larger filter, that's part of the reason for using them. They have a slightly higher bypass rating but that's not what is causing your problem. Keep in mind I'm using straight 30wt oil in the middle of winter. If there were a problem with pressures, it would have shown up by now.

Another thing is that the oil pump itself has a relief setting. It will start sending oil back to the pan once it hits the relief. Most filters are good to nearly double the relief setting of the pump. Cars like the TL rarely see above 65-70psi cold at high rpm. My Buick, even with cheap Fram filters had no problem at 120psi cold pressures.

Trust me, unless you accidentally solved the problem by changing the filter again and removing a second O-ring, the problem will be back.

 

Umm... I was at Acura.... I'm sure the techs know their stuff... Thank you.

 

I would go up against any Acura tech on oil and filter knowlege.

What they told you is false already. Tell me how a larger filter with more media and less restriction causes a larger pressure drop.

Tell me how it's possible to get a leak when most filters will show signs of ballooning before they leak from too much pressure.

How have I run an S2K filter for 60,000 miles with a straight 30wt giving me higher oil pressure than most and had absolutely no problems.

Answer: They don't know what they're talking about and/or trying to cover their asses.

 

Thanks for the heads up. You've certainly got me thinking/concerned. But forgive me if I remain a *little* skeptical (doesn't mean I won't follow your advise, just trying to understand). So let put forward a couple of counter-arguements:

I looked up a parts cross-reference to the 2G TL/TL-S, 3G TL/TL-S and S2000.

• 3G Filter from Mobil lists M-110; HP-1010 from K&N --> These filters are replacements for the Honda PLM-A02.
  
• 2G Filter from Mobil1 lists M-104; HP-1004 from K&N
  
• S2000 Filter from Mobil1 lists M-104; HP-1004 from K&N --> These filters are replacements for PCX-004 (in the S2000 application).

I know a lot of people run the M-104 on the 3G and that is sized slightly different than the M-110 (slightly wider OD; slightly shorter?).

What I'm getting at is I don't think it's *just* overall size/volume.

Maybe the Pressure/Bypass Valve stiffness? If you re-read though those older threads one of the questions regarding the A01 --> A02 --> PCX-004 was the diff in the bypass valve - how much differerent and would it matter.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/oil-filter-question-model-618843/


But, consider this: Assume the PCX-004 bypass valve is higher pressure and the 3G TL-S couldn't open the valve, and then the pressure built up and created a leak at the filter seal/o-ring.

If that were the case, the same thing would happen on the S2000. IOW - the bypass valve MUST, *always*, be weaker than the o-ring seal or an o-ring seal failure would always *become in practice* the bypass valve.


Last arguement: How long have you run the PCX-004 filter? I've run mine ~23k miles (~ 1/2 way though #3 now). I don't baby my car and haven't had *any* issue (yet - ). Why now, suddenly, is there problem? Weather related (cold/freezing)? Something else?


After your problem, one thing I did start to think about, regarding size, was the diff in OD of the two filters. The PLM-A01 is 2 3/4"; the PCX-004 is 2 7/8". I wonder if the o-ring seals are "offset" slightly in the larger OD filter compared to the smaller, or are they in exaclty the same place. If so, could *that* be the problem?

BUT, I think I am going to go out and buy some filters - A02; A01 (*if* I can find one), M-104; M-110 and take a closer look.


I look forward to *anyone* else's input and/or experience on this.

 

I ran S2k filter from the beginning, 15K without any problems on my 08 TL-S...

And then two off them crapped out. Could be defective filters? Maybe. I've bought a box of them from ebay.

I just don't know any more, I'm so paranoid. I check my oil level with every stop.

Today when I walked in my garage, I had about 2" diameter oil spot.. Before, I had at least a qt on the ground in a huge puddle. The oil was also all over my drive belt, everything was covered in effen oil. I've replaced the belt.

I do drive my car hard, daily long trips. I don't know. The Acura techs have convinced me. I'm going to raise the car again today. Also, I have not lost any oil since I've changed the filter. Could be coincidence. Could be the oil pump, but I highly doubt it, it's a new car. And as you can guess, I pay attention to every detail while I'm driving.

We'll see. I just really hope my problem will go away. And that small oil spot I have, it's just drips of left oil that was all over the engine bay.

 

It's still weird, I ran 15K putting in Mobil Syn 10w-30... I've switched to RP 5w-20, this leaked out very fast to zero oil in the motor, the next day I went with Mobile Syn Ext. 5w-20 also with s2K filter. This crapped out on me, I've lost about 1/2 qt. All of this in my garage while parked for a few hours.

Again, this is stupid, could the oil be the problem?

 

Oil should not be the problem- there was a (huge) leak between mating surfaces or bad media, whether it was at the filter gasket, in the filter itself, the main seal, oil pump seal, etc. Did you install the filters yourself? If not, a tech may have cross-threaded the filter so that the gasket was not square and tight.

Is there a place you can steam or spray off the bottom of the car? I'd do that, then check for leaks now and for the next couple of days. Also clean off the garage floor or put a pan so you can see any new fluids.

G/L.

 

Steam/Spray?

I am one with the engine bay, lol. I've dived into everything by this time. I need for the left over oil to gradually get ef out of my car Patience is what I don't have though.

 

Can you crank your front wheels all the way right (or is it left?) with the engine running so that you can see the filter? Maybe you'll be able to spot the source of the leak while the oil is actually under pressure.

 

^ I can see the filter clearly from the engine bay with a flash light on it. And I've been checking on it after every drive. Once the motor/oil cools off, it expands, causing my oil puddles.

I'm going to raise the car within a few hours for another inspection.

 

That was my first thought as well. I had this happen once and the result was very similar to the OP's experience.

 

if this was me, first i'd go get a mobil m-110 or the purolater filter for our cars. heck, try putting the honda a02 filter in since that is the oem filter (i know it's made by fram and it's not as good as mobil or purolater, but it might help if you need to bring it back to the stealership with oem parts).

then do the oil change yourself using the 3G section diy so you can make sure that the filter went on correctly, isn't overtorqued and that there isn't the old filter rubber ring gasket stuck and use any 5-20 oil since that is also oem spec. then you can also double check the filter attachment on the car to make sure it looks normal and the threads are ok. if you diy then you can also make sure the oil pan bolt isn't overtorqued. then if you still have the problem i would take the car into the stealership and see what they find.

it really shouldn't matter if you are using 5-20, 5-30, 10-30 etc.

 

I would've done the same thing as you. Put the normal filter on until you find the potential problem with the bigger one. I'm not knocking you but I think you got a bad batch of filters or something of that nature.

As for the bypass, I've seen tests done in the middle of winter with a pressure differential guage on the inlet and outlet of the filter with a 10w-30 oil.

Differential pressure when cold rarely went more than 4psi. It showed that the bypass was rarely if ever open. Hot it was pretty much the same, sometimes 1psi differential.

But let's assume the bypass is inoperative and the media is completely plugged up. The pressure relief valve in the pump itself will open before there's any filter damage.

Bypasses are usually there to protect the media in the filter from collapsing. A filter with a higher bypass rating usually has a stronger media to go along with it.

 

After replacing to OEM filter, my problem went away.

I'm still running tests, I have to give it a few days. I've been running the car hard. We'll see the results.

My only concern is if the problem reoccurs my new blame will be on the oil pump (seal), which will be odd to have a problem with in 2008 car. We'll see

Thank you guys for the input.

And I'm not knocking on anyone, I'm just far from a n00b, and I'm puzzled by this experience.

 

Why have you not taken this thing to the dealer if it's an '08 . The warranty should take care of fixing the problem . ?

 

I thought you weren't supposed to swap between synthetic brands? Or do I have it mixed up?

 

It won't hurt anything but it's better to pick one good oil for life.

For example, my oil contains lots of ZDDP which is outlawed for new cars. These chemicals build up on metal surfaces to protect them. If I switched to one of the newer oils containing higher levels of calcium and less ZDDP, there *could* be a little surface competition between the two additives.

Don't take this the wrong way, you could use a different brand of oil for every oil change and you won't hurt anything, but it's just not ideal.