I have a 2006 Acura TL. And I have had 4 driver side air mix motors replaced in the last year. My uncle who was an Acura technician for 20 years insists that the problem is one of the doors binding the motor making it go bad, but the dealership I go to only replaces the motor and now wants to replace the power supply running to the motor when I keep insisting we're almost sure it's a door binding the motor and making it go bad.

He can't work on cars anymore due to an injury, and these motors keep going bad within just a few weeks. Do you agree with him? Because logically a weak power supply to us doesn't make sense to make a motor go from working full strength to weak and popping in a few weeks. It just would work very weak from the get go if it was a weak power supply.

What's your opinions?

 

Who paid for the 4 motors? is the dealer performing some diagnosis, or just replacing parts? when the motor goes *bad*, does it stop working, or just move slowly? have you tried disassembly of a motor? is it damaged inside?

Its my understanding that my RDX HVAC system is similar, but I am not aware of any *power-supply*, just a direct 12v connection to the motor (but I could be wrong) - so what power supply does the dealer want to replace? who is to pay for it, after 4-failed motors? has the dealer offered to explain their diagnosis of the problem? and why they feel its a power-supply problem?

In my RDX FSM there are complex diagnostic procedures to follow for any problem - has the dealer offered to explain which procedure they used, to determine your problem, and gone through it with you?

As a general observation, the motors are bolted to the HVAC box, while the doors are integral with the box, meaning door replacement would require removal of the HVAC system, which would require removal of the dash, perhaps a 10-13 hour job (a guess). That may account for the multiple motor replacements.

On my RDX there is no way to lube the doors, just the linkage from the motors (4 total) to the doors, at least not that I can see, barring removal of the HVAC box.

 

I paid for the 1st replacement because I live 50 minutes away from the dealership and they didn't call me and tell me my part was late, I could have called and asked but I didn't. I put the 1st one in myself, they then put the second one in which cost me a ridiculous amount but at least it gave me a one year warranty. I told them what I and my uncle thought it was and they acted like I was dumb.

2 weeks later that motor quit working as I said it would because I knew how quick the other ones quit working. Went back a 3rd time and said they wanted to give the motors the benefit of the doubt and replace it again (2nd and 3rd covered under warranty). Now my 3rd one has quit working again and the last time I was in there they never have me a reason for wanting to replace the power supply to it just said that's what they were going to do all while I've been saying the whole time it's most likely a door binding.

And you are correct you can only get to those doors by pulling the dash out, disconnecting the heater hose/hoses draining the radiator and freon and a few more things my uncle said. I have no experience in doing it or I would in a heartbeat. So I'm out around $500 so far from 1st diagnosis and them not telling me the part wasn't there to paying about $80 for the part myself and installing it and then them diagnosing it again and putting the part in.

And now they want to replace the power supply (not sure what it is exactly) without giving a reason why which I will have to pay for because it's not a warrantied part (and most likely not fixing the problem) and then I will probably have to pay for them to finally do what I've been saying was the problem the whole time. My uncle has advised me to call them and make an appointment with an Acura rep and tell him how many times I've been there and they won't fix my problem but only fix a symptom of the problem.

They have actually been known to buy the car back from you to make you happy and keep you satisfied if that's what you want (not an option). I just need them to check the problem I've been saying it most likely is the whole time and they keep skirting around the issue acting like I don't know anything and I called 3 times today to make appointment and the service manager dodged my call all afternoon. I'm getting ticked off haha. It sounds like someone playing a drum everytime I crank my car up and it also randomly starts popping while I'm driving.

 

There is a TSB for the RDX for the driver side mix-motor/ door. You may find it helpful to read the TSB which is included in the link below. While the TSB is actually about lubing the linkage, at least on the RDX, it is *sort-of* possible to see the door pivots. You could possibly lube the pivots with a spray lube, and you might be able to do that on your own TL.

I will only observe that while I understand the point that you are making, in general the door pivots are not capable of causing enough friction to damage the motor, in my opinion - its the linkage that causes the problems, so is the linkage being lubed when your motors are replaced?

I think that the pivots would break before the motor would jam. Unless there is actual physical damage to the HVAC box. Used car? been in a wreck? any previous problems with the HVAC controls?

But you have not provided enough info about the problems with your motors, to determine just what is happening - does the motor jam? do the gears break? is the CPU (ECU) commanding/ over-directing the motor past its end-points?

Understand that these HVAC motors run back-and-forth, not just in a constant circle. If the motor tries to run past its normal range, it will jam, and possibly break. That is normally a problem with the ECU computer or the HVAC control electronics, not the motor, and certainly not the doors. Often the problem is some sensor. Try to understand how the motor *knows* when it has reached its movement limits? that may help you to understand how to diagnose the problems.

A final comment - I would suggest that you never command the max COLD or HOT temps, as that will move the doors to their max positions - any *hickup* in the controller will try to move the motors past their max positions, and break them.

On my CHevy there is a procedure that allows the HVAC controller to *learn* the max limits for the motor(s) movements. There may be such for your TL, although there was not such a procedure when I replaced the driver side motor on my RDX.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13884378#post13884378

 

The popping sound starts at about 68 degrees and it goes to 58 and low. It never has a problem if I'm on heat only when it gets to the upper 60's. It has a creaking sound along with the popping. As far greasing or lubing the linkage I'm not sure of they are doing that or not. I did when I replaced it myself.

The car was in a wreck before I got it, but this problem didn't start until about 4-5 months after I bought it. I would say the motor jams and the gears don't get stripped. I will take a video and post it. I will start it off on heat and then drop the temp down until the popping starts.

 

 

Check the heater core coolant valve, which is also opened/ closed (by cable) by the driver side motor - if the valve is jamed from corrosion, the motor will have a problem. Google this forum for the valve location, diagnosis, and replacement DIY procedures.

A FSM (factory service manual) paper copy is not that expensive, certainly less than you have already spent, and would help you to diagnose this and other future problems - or you can find an FSM online, or on eBay on CD.

When making your video, you should be able to also look under the dash, and see what is happening.

 

Ok thanks I will check that out in the next couple of days when I get a chance

 

Problem has been solved. The gears that the air mix motor arms attach to are stripped out. The whole heater sub assembly has to be replaced because the gears are not sold separately. The dealership finally ripped my dash out to diagnose the problem after 2 years of constantly replacing air mix motors.

 

glad you got the problem solved. i'm in the process of fixing my air mix system too...i think (hope) my problem is that the grease for the gears has broken down over the years and solidified, preventing the gears from moving properly. so i removed the motor and the gears, going to clean, re-lube, and reinstall.. the teeth on my gears are fine, but i noticed a lot of resistance due to the sticky grease in my case

https://acurazine.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=114

that's pretty stupid that the gears aren't sold separately, they're so simple, and just attached by small screws. if i had a 3d printer, i could probably make one in 30 seconds...there must be a service online that can do this for you

alternatively, what ever happened to those old scrap yards where you brought a box of tools, looked around for compatible scrap cars, pulled out parts by yourself and paid at the cash? do those not exist anymore? i'm only 31 this year...so it couldn't have been that long ago cause i still remember!

i hope you didn't have to pay them to pull the dash out to fix this...though you probably did

 

I find this confusing - on other cars such as my Acura RDX, the motors have gears, the motors simply attach to levers on doors which just rotate (no gears). And the motors (with gears) can be replaced. And my Chevy is exactly the same - just the motor was replaced when there was a problem (broken gears), although the Chevy motor was very difficult to access.

Can you provide pictures? are you sure that the dealer has correctly diagnosed the problem? and what did it cost to remove the dash?

 

are the gears really separate from the motors? and gears are not replaced with the motor? there are separate gears on the moving *doors*?? picture please?

There is a TSB for the RDX for this problem:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13884378#post13884378

 

the gears are separate from the motor, and screwed into the centre console. the air mix control motor just controls heat/cold via the heater control valve.

the mode motor (above the heater control - i have 07 TL base) is what controls the doors, but the gears controlled by the mode motor are much more concealed than those of the air mix control. in fact, i couldn't remove the gears for the mode motor (without removing dash), and cant even get a picture because it's behind the steering column and some other electrical connections...but i know those gears for the mode motor control the door because i played with it manually when i removed the mode motor. i have some pics of these motors in my thread (link) above

 

Well I called Acura customer care or whatever they are called and told them that they wouldn't ever diagnose the problem they just kept replacing my Air Mix Motor which I knew wasn't the problem. So long story short they called the dealer and set up an appointment for me, then the service manager called and said he wouldn't charge me for the diagnoses and the advisor called me back yesterday and said that I only had to pay for the part and that the 9.3 hours of labor was covered. Didn't give me a reason but they must have called them and said make sure you take care of him lol. I'm not complaining it would have been $1,200 because the gears aren't sold separately which is absolutely ridiculous and I know because I tried to order them a few months ago to see if it would fix the problem.

 

That link just takes me to the PROBLEMS AND FIXES main page.

 

Cost of part? and did I understand your previous post that the entire HVAC box is to be replaced, in order to replace those gears? which is why I am wondering how much that will cost?

 

The part is $222.96 + tax. That's all I'm paying and yes they are replacing that whole box.

 

oh sorry about that...try this:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/heat-control-still-not-working-910734/

so here's the heater unit:
http://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-pa...er=79166sepa02

it's pretty ridiculous they don't sell the gears..it probably costs only a few dollars. no clue what they're replacing for you but hope it solves the problem

9.5 hours and they couldn't figure it out? at least they know better than to charge you for it, that seems pretty ridiculous, and this is the dealership and everyone's a honda expert, lol. don't get me wrong, the techs work hard they're not the ones ramming you with the bill

 

If you click on the heater unit link and scroll to number 2, that is what they are replacing because that's what the gears are on. They haven't actually done this yet because that part is on national back order and I'm still waiting for the part to come in. That is what will take 9.5 hours to do. It took them around 3-4 hours to diagnose it but they aren't charging me for the diagnoses or the labor for that repair when I go back.

 

So after a few months my original problem has resurfaced. I've had it with this car and the fact that no one can fix it. I've brought it to them 5 times now for the same problem and im back at square one. Don't even know what to do with it and I can't sell it with the motor popping all the time.

 

Brutal.

I'm starting to get very hesitant about owning my 3G TL. Honda crammed all of these gizmos into the car (like all of their cars) and now they're all starting to crap out big time and generally they are super expensive to fix. I no longer look at Honda as being one of the most reliable manufacturers out there. I'm starting to think they're on par with the European brands, which is just god awful.

 

Yeah there is a lot crammed into this car! I love the car but I can't handle this anymore. It's going back next Monday to get "fixed" again. And then it's going up for sale lol

 

So upon further investigation the "problem" is the heater control valve that's been causing the problems. Or at least that's what they have told me. I sure hope they're right this time. I'm $800 into trying to fix a stupid popping noise!