2006 TL 161K 5AT

doing the ubiquitous timing belt replacement
and want to double check with you guys.

I have the old belt and gears turned where they line up on the top two and just removed the bottom cover(what a bear).
the concern I have is the keyhole on the harmonic balancer is not facing at 12 o’clock even though the top two marks are lined up.
does this have to beat 22 o’clock?and if so,how do I do that without moving the marks on the top two?

 

Was the engine running good prior to this?
If so, put the crank bolt (and that's it) back into the crankshaft, and keep turning the crank until it's at 12 o'clock. But don't ugga-dugga it down so that when you go to remove it it spins the crank backwards. Once the CRANK is @ TDC, so should both cams.


If the engine wasn't running prior to this.... uhhhhhh..... you got problems. Big ones.

 

Just to clarify,
1) you turned the crank pulley by hand to line up the front & rear camshaft TDC @ #1 cylinder.
2) then removed the lower timing belt cover.
3) then removed the crank bolt & slide the crank pulley off the crankshaft without turning anything
4) and what you found is the key slot at the 3 o/clock position without the key in place?

From what I can observe, pictured above, is the TB drive pulley TDC arrow is still 'somewhat' pointing at the oil pump TDC arrow.
The question is how did the crankshaft key slot get to the 3 o/clock without it first being moved or the key being in place (or not being present in the first place) without turning the crankshaft clockwise?
Something other then the 'key' is missing here.

 

OP, fess up, there's no shame here.

There is no way, without the key not being either removed or not being present, for the timing belt guide plate slot (yellow arrow) to be in the 3 o/clock, shown below, without moving it to hide the 12 o/clock slot on the TB drive pulley under the TDC mark (red arrow).


These diagrams lend credence.

 

The key came off when we removed the harmonic balancer.
i didn’t turn anything else after except trying to line up the keyhole marks.
i can’t get the key back in fully because it’s not lined up.
is there a way I can turn it back counterclockwise to align th keyholes to out the key back in fully?

 

Ouch, yeah been there, done that.. What i had to do ultimately is to make sure front and rear CAM's are in place, remove the belt, get the crankshaft back to TDC, and then put the new belt back on. I'll defer to others to see if there is a better method

 

This has happened to me two times.
Each time it occurred everything came to a 'full stop' and nothing else went forward until the key was fitted back into its happy place on the crank & TB drive pulley.
It is the only integral component in keeping the crankshaft & TB drive pulley in sync with the timing belt ridges moving the camshaft pullies when placing everything to #1 TDC.

I'm thinking you chose counter clockwise adjustment over a full rotation?

 

I thought it was verboten to do a full rotation?I thought that would mess up the engine.
i can’t get the keyhole in back in unlesss I can rotate the 5 o’clock keyhole to match up with the 2’oclock keyhole position in the crankshaft pulley.Can I remove the old belt and somehow do it?

 

Let's say the crank and camshafts are 100% out of time currently, and worst case is some valves are partially open from some cam lobes. By removing the timing belt, the valve springs should force those valves closed since the lobes aren't pushing on them anymore.
But this being a J32/35, IIRC when the cams are @ TDC all valves are 100% closed, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Easy to test this; if you can spin the cam gears by hand back and forth @ TDC, all those valves are closed.

So if the timing belt is removed (all valves are closed), you can theoretically spin the CRANK whichever direction you want without risking any piston to valve interference. In OP's instance, CCW is the shorter distance to travel, aka safest.
Obviously spin it VERY slowly by hand, and if you meet ANY sort of mechanical resistance, stop immediately.

 

Good question!
That's why I was asking @thoiboi for more detail regarding the extent / direction he turned the crankshaft to get out of this bind, lol.

 

Yeah, CCW, for this exact reason:


I went extra slow with a breaker bar and didn't try to man-handle anything. There was slight resistance at first, but no issues and I was able to get the car back up and running after that small snafu.

 

Here is where we are at to start the day :
key pin is back in (though not flush) and is lined up at TDC.
right front Cam is TDC,rear can is still slightly off.
Old belt was removed before turning.have new water pump installed as well as idler pulley so far.


Plan is to use 17 mm wrench and had rotate rear ca to TDC and move forward if you guys think everything looks good on thecrank.

 

Follow the service manual step by step. You start at the crank, then do the cams.

How far off is the rear cam? A couple teeth? Or like 90*?


You should be able to lightly tap the key to get the front face flush with the snout of the crank.

 

Ok guys.
Good news:Got front and rear cams at TDC.
bad news:Had to take key out of crankshaft because key would not go in flush.
removed key and pulley.
crankshaft is off TDC again.
Question:can I remove spark plugs and rotate crankshaft to TDC then align and put pulley and key in at TDC? If so,should I go clockwise or counterclockwise?
belt is still off.Only thing I have reinstall water pump and idler pulley

 

Yes it'll be 100x easier to rotate the engine with the plugs removed.

Look at the key; one end is tapered, you can kind of see the taper on your picture from 10am this morning. Looks like the taper is facing out. The tapered end goes in first, with the taper facing the crank; that's why you couldn't get it to sit flush.

Without the belt installed, there is ZERO reason why you shouldn't be able to put both the crank and both cams @ TDC.

 

thanks brother.Removing the spark plugs made all the difference.I was able to rotate the crankshaft ccw and line it up TDC.
i guess we will leave the spark plugs off till after we finish the tb kit install.

 

That's the keyway
The key is the small piece that you place into the keyway, tap til flush.

But at least you're making progress.

 

Ok guys.I think I finally got this right.both cams and crank are TDC and belt is on tat except a little slack on the tensioner side before we pull the pin.
ill try to post the video and let me know if you guys think we can pull the pin.

 

https://share.icloud.com/photos/011-...rGgXfwqTUS6OfA

 

The issue we are having now is when we get everything lined up to TDC,we pull the tensioner pin and the back cam moves off TDC!
sooo frustrating.We had removed the tensioner and are resetting the job to give it another go.
any more tips ,guys?

 

OP, did you ever get this TB replacement sorted?

 

yes.Frustrate as it was,finally had to concede defeat and tow it to a local shop.
luckily,my brother has used the before and they didn’t bend me over.lol

we just couldn’t keep the timing in sync whe pulling the tensioner on and I got to a point where I would have been in total gear if starting her up.

i learned a lot attempting to do this job,and as a novice ,I still learned a lot about my car.
so ,I consider it a learning experience.

 

My theory as to why you were running into that issue has to do with where the slack of the timing belt.

I followed ETCG very meticulously and the part of the video talking about the belt routing was very helpful for me in putting everything back together successfully. I think you may have had too much tension on the rear cam as it routes down to the tensioner such that when you pulled the pin, the tensioner pushes on the already taut belt, thus rotating the cam back.


Too late now, but lots of lessons learned for sure

 

ETCG shows how the FSM states to install the timing belt in step #12, counterclockwise, to get that 'slack' wiggle room on the adjustment pulley side.

In addition, it is interesting how he entirely skips step #10 and instead installs the adjuster pulley after getting the TB in place.

His method my be better suited for someone utilizing a lift and working up from the wheel well as shown; however, since it's been a while for me having done a TB replacement, I'm not sure how practical it would be hanging over the right fender, looking down, with a limited view to wait and install the adjuster pulley as he did?

I'll have to try and give it a go since I'm over due on my CL-S6 & have to commit and step-up here soon to get it done.