crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I read the DIY and used my service manual, and everything went together no problems. That is until I tried re-installing the serpentine belt auto tensioner according to this image. You can see the two bolts in the bottom right picture.

I can get the top bigger bolt back in, but the smaller bottom one there's no threads to bolt it into the bolt just goes straight in, and spins endlessly. I was wondering if anyone else has had this or a similar issue.


P.S. Anybody hesitant about doing their own timing belt change. I say go for it like I said earlier I had no issues other than the serpentine belt tensioner, and to be honest I should have just left it on since it's not necessary to remove.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like you stripped your block.....you're going to have to replace the whole thing. Sorry man.




































































































































































Just kidding.

nfnsquared

If I understand your issue correctly, it's not an issue. There are no threads in the pulley body for the small bolt. It's a clean hole and the bolt goes through it and screws into the block.

ez12a

Sure you got the right bolt in and didnt mix one up with one of the timing belt cover bolts, etc? i didnt have a problem with any of the bolts when I did mine.

nfnsquared

^^^ bolt head is 8mm... so if you don't have an 8mm bolt going in there (8x1.25), you got the wrong one.

p.s. might be easier to put the small bolt in first

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I can't see the block being stripped. Because, where that small bolt goes I can feel behind there, and actually feel the threads of the bolt. So, I was wondering if there was a bolt welded on there that came off or something like that.

I also made sure I kept every bolt separated just so I wouldn't end up using the wrong bolt in the wrong spot.

Is the head of the bolt actually 8mm or are the threads 8mm x 1.00mm, because the bolt I've been trying has a 14mm head on it.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

The manual refers to bolt thread diameter and thread pitch. At least that's how I've always understood it.

ez12a

14mm seems a little on the large side for that bolt iirc.

nfnsquared

Yeah, disregard. 8mm is the shaft diameter, not bolt head size. I sure don't remember that being a 14mm bolt head, but maybe so. The more I think about it, I remember that bolt head being 12mm and the large bolt head being 14mm.

ez12a

if this guy is right, you got the wrong bolt. See post #6:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/auto-tensioner-809834/

edit: some more posts reaffirming the size:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/tensioner-pulley-686704/

nfn, you also had an idea with the size:
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-problems-fixes-114/belt-tensioner-replacement-diy-859608/#post13862499

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I think you're right about it being a 12mm bolt head. I was using a double ended box wrench, and one side is 12mm and the other is 14mm. To be honest I've used so many bolts, wrenches and sockets today, about the only thing I'm sure of is the crank bolt is 19mm.

nfnsquared

Yeah, 14mm is definitely the wrong bolt. And it very could well be 10mm instead of 12mm. It's been too long for me to be sure, but I know it's not 14mm.

Edit: According to this link, a 8mm diameter bolt shaft should have a 12mm head:

http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...Head-Size.aspx

which fits with the general rule that bolt head is 4mm greater than shaft diameter....

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for posting those link. I really appreciate it.

nfnsquared

Yeah, looks like consensus of those posts is that it's a 10mm bolt head for the lower bolt.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

First, I'd like to thank everyone for all the responses.
Even though I thought I kept all the bolts separate it's definitely possible at least one bolt got mixed up. Hopefully tomorrow I'll find the right bolt, and fix this problem. Then I'll be able to take back the Honda crank tool to O'reilly since they only give you 48hrs rental before they make you buy it, and I sure as hell not paying $55 for a tool I could of gotten on Amazon for $16.

nfnsquared

It's a 12mm bolt head. I just went out and put a socket on it.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I was using the wrong bolt the whole time, but now that I've found the correct one and it threads in perfectly.

I actually just found out about a much bigger issue. My friend was lending a hand and he was putting the new auto tensioner on, and apparently must have cross threaded the top bolt because it snapped off with about 3/16" of the bolt sticking out. I dont know why he didn't say something at the time?

So, I go and take all the timing covers off and try to get what's left of the bolt sticking out, but that SOB ain't budging at all. I even bought one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-hal...tor-94640.html, and it actually wore the teeth off the cam gear to where it's completely smooth. I had a breaker bar on there and I was literally lifting the engine fractions of an inch. Plus, I ended up breaking the solenoid assembly that goes on the oil filter mount (#12 in this pic) Even worse the little piece that goes into the solenoid went flying out. I did however find a little hexagonal piece of metal that's flat on one end and has a little metal point at the other, and it does fit in the sleeve of the broken solenoid snugly. So, I'm hoping that's the piece that went flying since it doesn't appear you can buy it separately.

This job is turning into a nightmare. I got the timing belt, and pulleys no problems, and I thought my friend got the auto tensioner on no problems as well. Obviously I couldn't have been more wrong.

Now I literally have no ideas on how to get the rest of that broken bolt out. I'm afraid I'll snap it off flush. Then it'll have to be drill and tapped, and obviously there's no room to drill it out.

So, now I'm wondering if I should just remount the auto tensioner, and screw the bottom bolt in with some thread locker? I may be delusional, but I think there's enough of the broken bolt sticking out to keep the tensioner from going anywhere. What do you guys think of this idea, or do you have any other ideas on how to get the broken bolt out?

nfnsquared

Wow, what a douchebag not to tell you. I would not trust an 8mm bolt to keep that assembly snugged against the "stump". There is a lot of tension on that assembly and the torque value on the 8mm bolt is only 22 ft-lbs IIRC.

You are not the first to have the upper bolt sheared. It only torques to 33 ft-lbs, so if your friend wasn't using a torque wrench, he prolly just man handled it until it sheared.

The other guy was able to remove the post from the block. I forget his name but pretty sure he was a Marine Corps (or maybe Army) guy. Hopefully he'll see this and chime in or maybe someone else will remember his name. He might have posted his ordeal in Majofo's timing belt thread. Check there.

ez12a

oh man, tough luck. Hope things get sorted.

when i did mine i just had my friend hold the bolts in place from above the engine while I drove it in by hand from underneath for the tensioners, etc. I trusted him enough to help me put the covers back on though.

kind of ironic though, the tensioner bolt is like one of the few places you can squeeze a beam type torque wrench in, IIRC.

nfnsquared

Found it, may not be too much help:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...86&postcount=4

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, I am super pissed at this dude for not saying anything earlier. I mean he's supposed to be a friend. I mean I would have been mad but more at myself for not having done it myself.

I just looked in the manual and the timing belt auto tensioner bolts are only 6mm x 1.00mm thread pitch and 30mm long, and they're only grade 8.8 so I picked up some grade 12.9 hoping if I did get it out the stronger the bolts the better. Also, they're only supposed to be torqued to 8.7ft/lbs. I did come across this tool: , and nearly everybody agrees it works well, ans if you watch some youtube vids it makes sense how it works. The more you tighten the black section the harder it bites down on the stud. So, I'm gonna order one up, and pray that it works. Otherwise I'm pretty much screwed.

Here's a vid of it removing a broken head stud skip to like 1 minute to see it in action:

nfnsquared

OK, I thought we were still talking about the drive belt tensioner, not the TB tensioner. But again, I sure wouldn't count on one bolt to do the job.

And yes, those are fairly small bolts. Good luck getting the stud out of the block. That is going to be very difficult to access with a removal tool. I'll be interested to hear if that tool works.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

My situation is pretty much identical to the situation in the link you posted. Where the whole engine had to be lowered to drill out the bolt hole.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I was just thinking of a new idea, perhaps slightly delusional as well. I was thinking about J-B Welding the broken bolt to what's left of the stud. I know J-B Weld is nowhere near the strength of a bolt, but a bolt that's only torqued to 8.7ft/lbs obviously isn't being used to hold the auto tensioner tight against the block. It seems it's mainly just being used to keep the auto tensioner from moving away from the pulley that it pushing against, and obviously the part of the broken bolt that's sticking out isn't going to break. Especially after all the torque that was applied to it with the bolt extractor and it didn't break it then.

Wacker

Unless its finger tight (no way it would have broken if it was) JB weld wont work.

I usually weld (not JB Weld) a nut on to the stud to the stud and put a socket and beaker bar on it.. it needs to be a good hot weld.

Make sure the bolt wasn't too long for the hole. I have used a bolt that was too long before, and when the bolt bottoms out in the hole where there are no threads, it locks up tight!!

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't going to try and J-B Weld the head back on and try to remove the bolt. I was just gonna mount the one good bolt with thread locker, and J-B Weld the head to the stud just to keep the tensioner from slipping off. I'm just afraid that if I do use an extractor or weld a not on there and it snaps of flush with the block I'll have to drop the engine to drill it out. Then I'll either have to tap it or put a helicoil in there as in this post:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...86&postcount=4

And I really don't want to do that.

Wacker

I do NOT recommend that. Fix it right. You don't need the thing stranding you and putting you in an even worse situation.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Believe me I know I should fix it right, but I'm just so afraid of snapping in off flush. One of the techs at the Dealership my sister works at said if I do snap it off flush it might be easiest to remove the fender if I have to drill it out. Instead of dropping the whole engine.

Oh, and I also found out that my friend didn't break the bolt putting the new tensioner on. He actually broke it taking it off. Exactly, like TurboCoop's post. So, I can't really be pissed at my friend as much as I was, but he should have at least told me about it before putting the new one on. So, either Acura over tightened it Way too much when installing it or they cross threaded it.

One of the techs at the Dealership my sister works at said if I do snap it off flush it might be easiest to remove the fender if I have to drill it out. Instead of dropping the whole engine.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Believe me I know I should fix it right, but I'm just so afraid of snapping in off flush. However, One of the techs at the Dealership my sister works at said if I do snap it off flush it might be easiest to remove the fender to drill it out. Instead of dropping the whole engine.

Oh, and I also found out that my friend didn't break the bolt putting the new tensioner on. He actually broke it taking it off, but he still should've tol me before installing the new one. So, I'm not as pissed at my friend as I was, but he still should've told me before installing the new one. It seems to have happened exactly, like TurboCoop's post.

So, it seems that Acura overtightened it WAY too much when installing it, or they cross threaded it.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

OK, now I have a new issue. I put the crank on to turn the engine over 6 times according to the DIY. However I didn't put the crank pulley on, So, now i can't get the crank bolt even with my breaker bar and 5ft cheater pipe and I had my 1ro-in-law hold another breaker bar with a with a 17mm socket on the front cam sprocket. Also, turning the crank bolt clockwise bolt would tighten the cam sprocket. The crank sprocket turned so caused the belt to stretch and even jumped some of the teeth on the crank sprocket.

I'm thinking I might need to rent an electric impact wrench. United Rentals rents a Bosch 3/4" impact wrench with 450lbs of torque

nfnsquared

It's hard for me to believe that the crank bolt got torqued more than 80-100 ft-lbs or so by just turning the crank over 6 times. I'd guess that any run of the mill air impact wrench will pop it right off. Doubt you need to go to that extreme with the 450, but if you don't have access to an air wrench, might as well.

And I'd seriously consider buying a new timing belt...

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Believe me, I can't believe how tight it's not there either. all I used to turn it over was a standard 11" length 1/2" socket wrench. I prayed pb blaster on it all day. There's also another rental place around that has a Milwaukee 300lbs electric impact. It's time like this I wish i had a 60 gallon air compressor an pneumatic impact gun, or I'd really like a Bosch HTH181-01 cordless impact gun with 500lbs of force.

Also, I do plan on getting a new timing belt. I'm assuming that some of the teeth on it got messed up. Plus, I need to order a new vtec solenoid. So, if I'm lucky my car might get done by the end of the week

ez12a

damn, good luck with that.

It does take some torque to turn it by hand, I would know, so that bolt in there would be in there pretty good. I'd say with all the tension if you didnt take the plugs out it would be close to 40-50 ft lbs. It's going to be tough with no place to keep the crank still.

I put the pulley on before doing any turning so I could use the pulley tool to remove the bolt after.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Believe me, I knew I should put the pulley on, but I was being lazy and I thought it'd be easier to see the tdc mark on the crank sprocket. It's like they say hindsight's 20/20.

nfnsquared

Ahhh, I was kind of wondering why no crank pulley... Oh well, don't beat yourself up over it. As long as you didn't cross thread the bolt, the worse you're out is a new belt and tool rental and a little extra time. No biggie. Live and learn as they say. Someday you'll be able to laugh at all of this over a cold one

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

I know its not cross threaded because I got it in pretty far just by fingered tightening it, but I am a little worried that without the pulley on the bolt may have gone in to far ie: past where it's threaded on the socket.

nfnsquared

Then I'd say you are fine. Bottoming out the bolt (if that even happened) shouldn't be a big deal. Hit that beeyotch with the impact gun!! Good luck.

crbnfbr

iTrader: (1)

Now I just need to find a place that rents either corded or cordless impacts, and so far none of the rental companies do. Because, obviously my car isn't going anywhere in it's current condition.

ez12a

since you're getting a new belt and all, you could try just zip tying the belt to the intake and exhaust cams, zip tying the belt together just above the crank so it doesnt slip/move,

then use a breaker bar on the bolt and smack that with a mallet or your palm several times, using the belt as a holder/chain whip.

kind of what they did here (2:10):
http://youtu.be/fE0MhcBSfDo?t=2m10s

closetprisoner

Damn.. sorry to hear all your trouble of tb job..

I didn't run into any issue when changing out my bro 06 tl of tb/pump and all tensionsers, just removing the crank bolt was a biotch, but overall took me like 6 hours to complete.