I drive an 04 TL 6spd with 87,000k. A few weeks ago my CEL came on, so I had it checked out at Advanced Auto Parts. There were 8 different codes

Random Misfire
P0300

All Cylinders were misfiring
P0301
P0302
P0303
P0304
P0305
P0306

Oxygen (A/F) Sensor Signal Stuck Lean
(Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P2195

First, I didn't think it could be my spark plugs because I recently had them replaced with NGK Plugs about 40k ago. I took a look at them anyways and didn't notice any major color changes. They were charcoal gray.

Second, I thought I'd check the o2 Sensors. The top two primary o2 sensors did not show any signs of needing replacement. (Figure 9 and 10). However, the two secondary o2 sensors were blackish gray. (Figure 11 and 13). So, I replaced those with new sensors. Part# 36532-RCA-A01 & 36542-RCA-A01A



After replacing the two secondary sensors, I reset the ECU. Took a test drive around the block and the CEL came back on. I took it back to Advance Auto Parts and ran a scan. Now the codes I'm getting are:

P0300
P0301
P0302
P0305


The guy said I probably need to replace the coil packs on the misfired cylinder.



Should I replace the coil packs? (Figure 1)... If so, which Coils? All 6 or just the ones indicating a problem? This is driving me nuts!! Any help will be appreciated!

 

Ok...the primary sensor is the one that's giving you the code...they're called LEAN AIR FUEL SENSOR.
the second sensor on our car is just a simple 02 sensor that reports back to the ecm ensuring the cat is working, it simply monitors o2

the primary sensor is a wideband sensor which based on its readings, the ECM regulates AFR...

you can't tell if its good or bad by looking at the color of the sensor, so that means nothing!

your best bet is...swap the primary sensors from bank one, to bank 2..and now you should get a different code indicating that the sensor is bad on bank 2

again...ur looking at the primary sensors, not the secondary.

as far as ur misfire codes..well p0300 all the way to p0306 are associated together...pretty much, one misfire on one cyl, could set a whole series of misfires all over the place, and once that happens, you get the p0300 random misfire.

 

had these codes about 3 weeks ago. the guys at autozone reset the computer and it hasn't come on since.

 

Where did you get your last tank of fuel? Running premium I hope. All the refineries are starting to transition to winter blend fuels, but this should not cause this.

 

Alright, I guess, I'll give that a shot. I was hoping it wouldn't result me changing the Primary Sensors since they cost an arm and a leg... Thanks for the advice. I'll keep you guys updated.


I always get Premium at BP, Exxon, or Shells Gas..

 

Opel give good advice, that's a great place to start.

If the problem does not shift to the other bank, I would start looking at the fuel system. With all 6 misfiring (assuming it's real) and a lean exhaust code, something is wrong.

However, misfires put raw fuel into the exhaust and give a false rich reading so keep that in mind when troubleshooting.

 

Another question... I'm guess it wouldn't hurt to leave the new secondary sensors on right? Or should I return/exhange them for the primary sensors?

 

Secondary are only used to check the convertor efficiency. They are not used in the AF calculations. I'm pretty sure they're not wideband either, a quick price check would answer that. Don't switch the primary and secondary unless they're the same part number.

 

after using them to diagnose put them back where they go..

 

I did not mean switching the secondary sensors to the primary (they're different part number), but to return the NEW Secondard Sensors and put my OLD ones back in and purchase the New Primary Sensors.

Anyways, I'll just take a loss of $110 and I keep the Secondary Sensors... I'm sure I'll need them further down the road.

Primary LAF Sensors...
$120.70 - 36531-RCA-A02 SENSOR, LAF
$120.70 - 36531-RDM-A01 SENSOR, FR. LAF
----------
$241.40

$259.83 after shipping and handling... AHHHHH!!!! Damn, $260 for some sensors! Killing Me Here!!

 

well dont buy the LAF sensor just yet....swap them from back to front..and see if you get a different code...then after, if u end up needing a new LAF sensor...you can return ur secondary o2 sensors, and with that money you get the LAF sensor.

 

Also, Will replacing the Primary Sensor clear the Misfire codes??

 

we dont know yet!!! im pretty sure they're associated together...just swap the sensors and see what happens

 

Oh Okay.. I'll swap them out later this evening after I finish studying. If it does throw another code.. What should I expect?

 

Well, I suggest getting a compression test done on the heads. There's a chance you might have bent exhaust valves. I see you're a 6MT, so it is a possibility.

 

well first the code was for bank 1....now when u take the LAF sensor from bank 1 and install it in bank 2, if sensor is bad, you should get the code for bank 2 now.

 

Okay, I switched the LAF sensor from Bank 1 to Bank 2. Reset the ECU and now the codes I'm getting are:

Random Misfire
P0300

All Cylinders were misfiring
P0301 x2
P0302 x2
P0303 x2
P0304 x2
P0305 x2
P0306 x2

Could it still be the LAF sensors? Or maybe a bad coilpack?

 

You need to drive it for a while to see if the lean code comes back on the same bank or if it follows the senosr to the opposite bank.

 

^^^ does ur exhaust sound funny while runnin? if so, u prolly have some valves damage or need a valve lash

 

after you have unplugged the LAF sensors....you have to let the car idle for 15 mins, not touching the throttle...and btw, how are you resetting the ECM...while a simple battery disconnect will clear the CEL...the codes are still stored in the ECM...best way to reset and clear all that, is through the OBDii connector with a simple scanner.

this could as well be caused by a bad battery, or a bad ground... youd be surprised how many codes that ECM throws due to electrical power. This car is extremely sensitive to electrical power.

i want you to do a simple test...assuming ud get ur hands on a multimeter...with the ignition on...turn on any big power consuming devices...heated seats, wipers, headlights, interior lights, blast the ac.. then, the red lead of the multimeter on the negative terminal of the battery, and the black lead on the bolt where negative cable is connected to the body of the car...the meter should read in between 0.03 and 0.10...if it reads more than 0.10 that ground cable is bad.
also, take off the bolt holding the ground cable onto the body, grease it up and retighten it, and do the same on the battery terminal.

my buddy's car had a lean code..and i told him its ur battery...argued with me to death because someone else with a scanner had told him, fuel system and blah blah blah...either way..it turned out to be electrical power related...so he changed the battery and that fixed it.

this is just a little proof how big of an impact electrical power has on the car...so while it may seem totally unrelated, these things are still simple tests and no cost.

just last week, i had p0685 on my car.. which means ECM Relay power circuit mulfunction... pretty much my car couldn't be driven...everyone leaned towards a failed ECM...
I ended up taking apart every single ground cable on the engine bay, and greasing them, and tighten them back up... and guess what...my car is up and running! i could go on about the ECM throwing codes due to electrical power... you'd be surprised.

anyway, sorry i turned this a bit towards me, but honestly, just simply sharing experiences, this way some simple things are not overseen and ignored, when they can very well be the source of your problem

 

I'll run the test tomorrow... I'll keep you posted on the results. Thanks again for all the advises.

Hopefully it is because of a simply bad ground... That would save me a fortune.

Also, I still have the LAF Sensor from Bank 1 in Bank 2. Does it matter if they're not in the proper location?

 

^^^no leave them the way they are...lets see if you get a code indicating lean on bank 2.... also, check the fuse under the dash...there's a LAF sensor fuse

 

CEL went away today....?? Is that a good sign?

 

^^^of course it is lol....lets see what happens within the next few days

 

Okay, after checking the battery & ground - the problem still exist. The ground reads about .03 with everything on that consumes big power source.

I had the CEL read today and the codes i'm getting are stil the same.

Random Misfire
P0300 x2

All Cylinders were misfiring
P0301 x2
P0302 x2
P0303 x2
P0304 x2
P0305 x2
P0306 x2

I dont believe its a coilpack because one bad coilpack shouldn't triggle ALL 6 Cylinders to misfire..

The guy at advanced auto told me to try using Fuel Injection Cleaner...

What else could it be? The Previous CEL Code I got was P2195, but that problem doesn't exist anymore??

Oxygen (A/F) Sensor Signal Stuck Lean
(Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P2195

Sigh... I want to avoid taking the car to the acura dealership, but if this continues... I dont have much choice.

 

Random Misfire
P0300 x2

All Cylinders were misfiring
P0301 x2
P0302 x2
P0303 x2
P0304 x2
P0305 x2
P0306 x2

I have the random miltiple cylinder misfiring as well...just wondering if it could be the sparkplugs? Read the codes a week ago and the CEl did not come up again. Should i be concerned???

My 05 TL 6MT takes longer than usual to start up, and I am averaging 9L/100KM for 2 tanks now without really pushing the TL. NO noticeable loss of power, no other issues noticed so far. Help please!!!!

 

take it to the dealer a make sure you have the lates pcm update. there one for a paired misfire and p2195 p2197 b1s1 b2s1 lean codes. check the spark plugs but it could be clogged injectors or blown head gaskets. see it all the time.

 

Thanks for your reply. If i had clogged injectors or blown head gaskets though, I would feel a noticeable losss of power though no?
I never got p2195 p2197 b1s1 b2s1 when i read it.
Its going into the shop on thursday so i will update all then.

ps sry to resurrect an old thread but i searched and figured posting in here, before posting a new thread would be better

 

check and see if you have a vacuum leak a good can of carb cleaner comes in handy here, also check fuel pressure. The reasoning is simple if any vacuum lines or gaskets suck enough air the ecu cant adjust air fuel ratio correctly this can result in misfires and o2 codes.

 

not true. you could have no sign of a head gasket for a long time. 2195 you will get one if you don't have the update. i get about 3 week.

 

240sx acura tech,

Am I reading correctly? You see blown head gaskets often? I thought the J32 was much tougher than that

 

UPDATE:

I got my car diagnosis at an authorize Acura shop. They said Cylinder #2 coilpack definitely needs replacement and might get rid of the other misfire.

Diagnosis Scan: $45
One Coilpack: $90
Labor: $50
TOTAL: $185

I declined the service, because I know it doesnt take $50 for labor to install a coilpack. Plus, I can get 6 used coilpack w/ 20k from an 08 Type-S for $130.

My question is... What firing order are the cylinders?

2 4 6 <--Rear Motor
-----
1 3 5 <--Front Motor

OR

4 5 6 <--Rear Motor
-----
1 2 3 <--Front Motor

 

I had the car serviced at an Authorize Honda/Acura shop.

Prior work done before the shop...

-Replaced all 6 coilpacks
-Replaced all 6 sparkplugs with NGK (OEM Spec)

NO FIX.. Still Cylinder 1-6 misfire.

This is what the shop had done so far...

-Replaced the PVC hose
-Cleaned PCV Value
-Replaced the water temp. sensor (the car would rear 120*+ Degree at startup sitting overnight..)
-Value Adjustment (also replaced gaskets)

The car was in service for two weeks. I finally got it back today. I spoke with the technician and he said, "He hasn’t felt any misfire since the repairs. So, everything seems to be fine. No codes no nothing.." $450 later..

I drove home with no problems, no CEL. Later, on my way to the bank the CEL started flashing. I hooked my scanner to it and got the same codes I had before. Cylinder 1-6 Misfire. WTF!!

What do I do now?

 

Really sounds like bent valves due to an over-rev. The only caveat is that you wouldn't usually see misfire codes on all 6. I'm surprised the dealer didn't perform a compression test - easy to do.

Other than that, maybe a bad ECU?

 

^ I agree.

If 6MT car, first check for bent valves. If compression is good, then your problem is most likely this (see links below)


"Don't Rain On My Parade"

1) Ignition coil melted (click here)

2) Car won't start: AC Froze up and now the PCM is full of water (click here)

3) Bad news - Water in PCM/ECU. Warranty advice? (click here)

4) Water Leaks into Control Box (click here)

5) Engine spitting, CEL on/flashing, bad vibration... (click here)

6) HELP! plugged a/c drain ruined the ECU (click here)

7) Car won't Start (click here)

8) A spiders nest cost me $5,000 in engine repair!!!!! (click here)

9) Computer failure b/c of AC unit - anyone have this happen? (click here)

 

LOL. The link master. I've got to start doing that, it would save a ton of writing.

 

The mechanic said, "if it was a bent value, the problem would be consistant..."


I'll def. take a look at my PCM... I'll keep you guys updated.

 

So did they do the compression test or not? It's not hard to do it yourself at all. You just need to buy the gauge from advance auto for $35ish. You'll want to do all your cars. It's fun.

I feel bad for you for having to deal with this for so long. I'd cry if I was in your situation.

 

Today I was able to check the PCM. I didnt find any moisture around or in the ecu. The a/c drain hose seems to be fine.

How do I go about disabling the ignition coils to preform a compression test? Do I remove the ign. coil fuse?

 

The first thing you do is remove a fuse that is located in the fuse box under the dash on the driver's side. The only fuse you remove is #19. It is the one for the fuel pump.

Start the car and let it cut off by itself. It cuts off because there is no fuel getting to the cylinders.

Then remove the coils and lay them to the side of the engine. Wrap them in a towell kinda folding it over itself to keep the coils seperate. This prevents grounding.

Remove all the spark plugs.

Insert your gauge into one cylinder at a time. While holding the gas pedal down, try to start the engine. Hold the key long enough so you hear the engine turn over 5 times and then stop. Record your guage reading. Watch the guage and make sure the pressure holds. Repeat for the remaining 5 cylinders.

Put the spark plugs back in, put the coils back in. Put the fuse back in.

Cycle the key a couple times without starting the car to build up fuel pressure. The car should start right up after that.

Here is the picture of the fuse location.