Da Sox

At 56000 miles I experienced engine failure in my 06 Acura TL. Initially I was told my warranty expired at 50000 miles. When I pointed out it was covered up until 70000 miles, they quickly told a second lie, saying it was denied because I had a cold air intake system on my car. No way will this cause crankshaft bearing failure. When I pressed them to prove it, which I knew they could not, they insisted I pay $400 for them to find the cause. Low and behold, crankshaft bearing failure. I religiously change my oil with Royal Purple Synthetic oil which is rated for 12000 mile change interval. I went a step further and changed the oil according to the car's MID. Over the 5 year period I had misplaced one oil change receipt from three years ago, showing an interval of 9000 miles where there was no proof of me changing the oil. Corporate Acura denied my claim without a specific reason. They told me it was because of inconsistent oil changes. I will never buy another Acura or Honda again.

Ruby

Wow

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

why threaten us?

and most manufactures will play hardball when it comes time to replace an engine, not just honda/acura.

Da Sox

I'm not threatening anyone. I'm just making people aware to make sure to keep all service records.

jda123

File a suit against the Honda, or the dealer, in small claims. Around here, there is a $5000 limit, but that would get you most of the way there. Every time I have done this, I get a call to settle within a few days that the other party gets served. The $5k, or repair, is cheaper than paying lawyers. Your ability to win will depend on documenting your case very easily and clearly for the judge.

Da Sox

Thanks for the advice. I called one of those lemon law lawyers but they would not help me because Acura refused to put the reason for denial in writing. They told me I had to go through litigation to get it. I will look into the small claims thing. Thanks again.

Da Sox

I also filed a claim through the BBB, Federal Trade Commission, and the PA State Attorney General. I'm just waiting to hear back.

EATSLEEPRACE

iTrader: (1)

Judging by ure mods....chances are u probably drive the car pretty aggressive....that I'll do it!

I wouldnt show up to the dealer with intake ,pulley...etc.....performance parts and demand my motor gets fixed...you dropped the ball,should have remove them...you would have had better chances.

Bite the bullet...and learn from it...

jda123

Don't hold your breath on any of that.

Pay the $20, or whatever, and go to small claims. You represent yourself and the judges (around here anyway) don't let either side jack around with fancy lawyer stuff... just facts on a common sense level. Document every step that you took, avoid emotion or hyperbole and lay your case out. Read through the policy and see if it says that you need to keep all receipts... read everything. Call the dealer back on the phone, put it on speaker and use one of those $30 recorders to record them telling you that they refuse to give you a denial reason and pump them for all kinds of info - if you can get them to call you names and stuff (this always helps).

Penn is a one party consent recording state, so record away.

The disposition of small claims is final (around here anyway), but you will have nothing to lose and everything to gain. My guess is that you get a call from some Honda Lawyer, or a Lawyer from the Dealer, in a few days wanting to know how to make this go away. Record any conversations that you have with anybody. You can always file against the dealer first... then against Honda Corp if that doesn't work (with all of the info that you gained about the process).

EATSLEEPRACE

iTrader: (1)

^^or try that...good idea...good luck

jda123

Oh, I forgot, when you are going to record a conversation, always ask the person on the other line who they are. Not just Jerry, Bob or Tom, but last name too. Their role (manager, parts guy, etc.) is good too.

Dino81

wow! one receipt from 3 years ago?1?!? crazy!!! i hope u win OP sounds like a lot of BS

ohsixMTee

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, OP best of luck but going in with those mods installed was asking for the end result.....I mean, the failure can happen to any car but the mods suggest the car is driven spiritedly more often than most.

Again, best of luck.....maybe sit down with an attorney that offers free consultations to see what his/her advice may be.

Mdumanski01

Craziness.. I don't understand tho? You were required to keep your service records?? They are denying you because you can't show receipts for oil changes? If you Do a DIY oil change does that void your warranty??

Pay a cashier at pep boys $50 to change the date on the register on pay for an oil change, get the reciept and there u go..just saying

I'd like to get your back but dude, u have way too many mods thats what they r going to say.. The mods did it. BTW before recording any conversations read the laws. Unfortunately Pennsylvania has a "2 party consent" law when it comes to recording conversations. 38/50 states have a "1 party consent", meaning if you are part of the conversation that's all you need.. PA is not that way.

Mdumanski01

http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law

Mdumanski01

Did you call corporate Acura?? Or r u just dealing with the dealer??? Call corporate and tell them u ur filing a case, and in the mean time take off everything they don't know about..Throttle body spacer, pulleys, j pipe, RACE cat, exhaust..

mY sLOW UA6

Damn i have to keep my walmart recipts for oil now

jda123

We are talking about a main bearing failure here... not bent valves, hydrolock or some other kind of thing that might happen because of the mods. The only main bearing failures that I have ever seen have been lack of oil (usually rods go out too) or defect. Even a modded TL V6 should have more than sufficient lube, so it almost has to be a defect.

The mod thing is inconsequential to this issue, to me.

My bad about the 1 party thing. The list that I have has PA as 1 party. Let them know when they pick up the phone that the call may be recorded "for quality and training purposes."

TheDingo

Wow that is bullshit dude. I would probably stray away from a company if they did me like that as well. Unfortunately, I'm sure just about every dealership/company would try to get out of putting a free motor in someone's vehicle. Take it to small claims. If that doesn't work, buy a used motor to get the car running and just sell it off.

Good luck man.

nfnsquared

Per the Magnusson-Moss (sp?) Act, I believe the burden is on Acura to prove that mods contributed to the failure.

I suppose they could argue "harmonic" issues from replacing the pulley, but that is a huge stretch IMHO.

Should be an easy open/shut case, but you'll have to take action to force their hand. I think the state AG office or some federal agency should be able to force them to comply with M-M...

jungy4

OP, how agressive do you drive your car? I hope things work out for you.

i_love_cars

iTrader: (1)

Lame situation all around.

So you have a car with a warranty. Did you buy it brand new with factory warranty, or are we talking some sort of CPO deal? Does the warranty paperwork say that if you mod your car, then the warranty is void? I don't know of many warranties that let you mod your car.

If your warranty states that any engine mod, regardless of the type, will void the warranty, then you're going to have a tough time winning any case at all. Honda doesn't need to prove anything to anybody about cause of failure if you signed a piece of paper saying that your warranty is void if you make any modifications under the hood, and you roll up with mods and a ruined motor asking for a free repair.

You and I and everyone else here knows that your mods did not have to do with the failure, and I agree that your engine should be replaced from a strictly common-sense standpoint....... but like everyone else knows - the dealer will try to get out of any major warranty repair like that if at all possible, and that's why the legal wording in most warranties has broad, sweeping consent statements that you agree to about what you can and can't do with the vehicle.

The wording in warranties is designed to screw people and make money for the warranty provider.

So while Honda most likely doesn't have to prove anything to the court, I still hope that you can get someone who has some common sense and realize that, regardless of a few bolt-on modifications, a car from a reliable brand like Acura should not be needing a motor replacement at 56k miles. Let's be realistic, here - the motor failure at that mileage is so unlikely I don't know how anyone could reasonably suggest that the failure is due to use-error or a few bolt-on mods.

From a common-sense standpoint, your warranty should cover this.
From a business standpoint, your warranty will not cover this.

gen2gsr

Im going to guess that this crank pulley did not have a harmonic balancer with it?

Bearcat94

The 70,000 Power Train Warranty is the factory warranty.

The Magnusson-Moss Act says otherwise with regard to "proving" that the modification is the direct cause of the failure.







The factory pulley doesn't have a "hamonic balancer" either.

Royik1157

if you just go to the dealer and threaten to sue them then they usually give you what you want. they dont want to go through the hassle of court. i know in my dads mdx (he bought it brand new in 05) they had to replace the transmission because of some weird failure at 30k and they put in a refurbished tranny in it instead of a brand new one. he went there and told them that hes going to take this to court. they came back and told him that if he doesnt go to court (made him sign an agreement) that theyll give him an extended warranty and put a brand new tranny in. they upgraded the full warranty from 40k miles to 120k miles.
dealers are sneaky about this stuff and its hard to trust companies when they do things like this. im saying go there and just complain i mean flip out on them and who knows you may win. either way good luck with your case!

94eg!

Yes it does fool. It's a harmonic damper, not "balancer". There is no such thing as a harmonic balancer (that's just a layman's term). It's two separate masses isolated by rubber ring. This keeps the crankshaft from resonating. The rubber isolater is clearly visible in this photo (brown ring with little holes in it). All Hondas come with a harmonic damper. Loosing this part does not make your car any quicker.





Not quite a Honda pulley, but you get the idea. Honda puts the pulleys on the inertia ring most of the time.

Alambros01

Wow that is hard to hear.... I had an 05 RSX type s and the motor died on me at 70k... had been burning oil since I bought it so I think the previous owner sucked nuts. but anyways Acura of Peabody(Mass) completely tore my motor apart and actually replaced the block.... for free.... some dealers are just scummy.

Pat04TL

Yup that's a tough one, but not surprising. The only mods I do to vehicles are ones I can completely reverse before taking (or towing) the car into the dealer. I keep DIY maintenance records as well but they could hang me on that if they wanted too. Start with "How do we know those receipts are for this car?" and go from there. Generally you can push the non-warranty coverage issue (in your favor) concerning DIY maintenance. However leaving an aftermarket CAI system on the car gives them all the ammo they need. I had a Corvette under factory warranty with a nice aftermarket CAI and the service advisor flat told me "that will void your entire engine warranty". Not a good thing to hear since GM has a 5 yr/100k powertrain warranty. He said just put it back to factory spec before bringing it in if something happens with the engine.

diesel_s

that is crazy, my dealer down here in Atlanta, Ga is very upfront and honest. I use Ed Voyles Acura, my old TL's tranny went out at 70K and they replaced it no questions asked, my current TL has had a few issues and they always do it under warranty. I even took it in for a tranny flush, their mechanic flushed the wrong TL, not only did they call me to tell me of the mistake, to make up for it, they gave me a free power steering flush, free coolant flush, free brake flush, free rotors, free pads, and a full vehicle detail

Bearcat94

Wait.

We agree, right? "Balancer" is not equal to "Damper", correct?

94eg!

Dood, a harmonic balancer IS a harmonic damper. It's just an improper and misleading common name. Yes a harmonic balancer doesn't actually balance anything. But it doesn't matter what it's called. If you are trying to imply that the OEM crank pulley serves no additional function other than driving the accessory belt, you are mistaken. No matter what you call it, it's present in the OEM pulley, and eliminating it is not wise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

dont get me wrong Justn but just to be quick to post and not helping the OP is becoming more of a trend....take it personally if you will but gotta help when someone is in trouble.....i love you too but u gotta change LOL....

depends from dealer to dealer....not specifically motor brand....if the dealer decides they can pick up the tab (if you have gotten 2-3 cars from them or constantly paid them to do your maintenance or got them some business, they will pick up the tab without a question).....

i am more heavily modded than the OP and I do not drive my car insanely....just regular spirited driving....doesnt mean i live at the racetrack....

OP, let us know how this turns out for you....i dont have any receipts or anything even thow i maintain my car more religiously than anyone (except Inaccurate LOL)....i know am way past warranty (sitting at 160K miles) but it will be good to know how you went about this whole charade.....