DC2Teg97

hey guys. Im sure there are multiple threads about this issue but maybe I am putting in the wrong keywords or not typing it a way that the forum will make a more accurate find.

Basically, for the past 6 months, I have an issue with the auto trans on my 04 (surprise surprise). When im on the highway cruising then have to make a sudden stop or get off the exit, it will downshift HARD like its shifting from 5th to 3rd. By the way, 3rd and 4th pressure switches have been replaced and trans fluid was clean at the time and at the proper level.

Then, yesterday i leave with a few friends to head down to Atlantic City for the night and go to Honda day. As im on the highway (with 4 people, backpacks and a cooler full) I noticed several issues with picking up speed when going uphill. So i put the car into manual shift and tried shifting from 3rd thru 5th on the highway and noticed 4th was slipping. Then all of a sudden I lost all transmission response and the car went into limp mode(atleast I think since i couldnt go past 40) and trans fluid came out the breather tube.

Now I know im going to need a new transmission. But my question is since Honda seemed to somewhat make a stronger Auto Trans for the late model 3rd gens like the 07-08s, will those bolt right up with any issues including bell housing, sensors, mounts, etc...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

Gil'sUA5

Good question, id like to know this too. By the way when you changed the pressure switches did you feel any difference in the trans? Im getting ready to do those so im just curious.

YeuEmMaiMai

06 will and 07 up to a certain vin will 07 after that vin and 08 will not. Some accord and oddessy transmission will work as well

Slpr04UA6

I've been under the impression that nothing aftr '06 will bolt up to '04 & up. I thought the '07 years and up, were the revised Transmission (not that they don't have issues).

DC2Teg97

it did make a difference...i changed them because for some reason it wouldnt switch into 3rd from 2nd and if it did manage to get into 3rd it wouldnt go into 4th and the gear shift was very hard. but after i changed them it worked fine.

This is my 3rd Acura...my 1st with an AT and i think it may/may not be my last TL. I love this car, but given they do have lots of AT issues, i may go back to driving something standard...Plus it cant tow my integra

Alexns05

Just wondering... if you had the issue for 6 months why wouldn't you get it checked out? It seems as though you were aware of the potential for problems in these transmissions. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure.

Gil'sUA5

Im with this guy here ^^^

DC2Teg97

You have any suggestions I should have done besides replace the trans?

Kevin17112

I thought there was a recall for tranny on 04 models?

Alexns05

Yea, I would take it to the tranny shop and find out what's really wrong with it before I threw a new tranny in it. It seems like most of the time it's just a simple fix, but since we're in a recession and the Acura dealers want to keep money coming in they just say everyone needs a new tranny instead of finding the real problem.

And no there wasn't a recall in 2004... This has been discussed ad nauseum on here since the beginning of time. If you look on Consumer Reports or any other auto review database you can see there are serious transmission issues in very few 3rd generation Acuras.

Ackack

Sorry to hear what you are going thru with your car. The same thing happened to my 2004 Acura TL. When I would break from speeds higher than 45 my car would downshift hard. I basically ignored it for a few months. After I had my tranny fluid replaced it seemed to go away. It returned a month after replacing the fluid. I would feel my gears slipping from time to time but never had it looked at by a mechanic. One day on the highway I was going 75mph my gears started to slip and my rpms started to drop. The car wouldnt go no more than 30mph. Then a lot of white smoke started to come from my hood. I pulled my car over and got out my car and noticed my tranny fluid leaking. Had my car towed to the tranny shop. Mechanic had to replace my 2nd and 5th gear plus my torque converter. The job cost $2100 for repair. Good luck man.

DC2Teg97

Thanks alot guys for a advise... bumppp

DC2Teg97

Bumppp

DC2Teg97

does anyone know the transmission codes for newer/revised transmissions that will be a direct bolt up? im probably going to end up rebuilding, but i would like to keep maybe getting a different trans in mind to help cause less headaches when i tear that damn thing apart.

DC2Teg97

bumpppp

vgorous

mother f****
I really hope this doesn't happen to me. I just bought an 04 Acura TL. I bough into Acura believing it would be more reliable than the Audi I had. In fact, my Audi was pretty strong considering it was a 99.

Is this REALLY common?

beastUA6

My 2004 has 61,450 on the odo right now. Just replaced the fluid with DW1, changed 2nd & 3rd gear pressure switches, as well as the little internal filter that's inside the tranny (a lot of people don't even realize there's even one there). My trans felt like it was fine prior to the maintenance with the exception that it had a somewhat hard downshift from 3rd to 2nd while getting on the freeway. Ever since I did the fluid, pressure switches, and filter it has alleviated all problems and shifts waaaaay smoother then it ever has. This was the cars first trans fluid change so I'm sure it still had garbage ATFZ1 in it. I'll be doing the switches every 30k from here on out as maintenance in hopes it will keep my transmission in good working condition. I don't see a need to switch to GM fluid or race fluid. I don't rag on the car too hard so I don't see it to be necessary. Seems like the DW1 is doing its job. Got hooked up at the stealership for parts and fluid anyways....paid $140 for both switches, 4 quarts of DW1, the filter, and a new o-ring for the filter cover.

beastUA6

For those of you curious as to what filter I'm talking about, the part number is 25450-RAY-003. The o-ring for the filter cover part number is 91301-RAY-004. Here's the link for the diagram...http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

Numbers 7 and 21

vgorous

I know I could just search but how hard is it to do these pressure switches? I saw a YouTube video of how to do a flush and fill of the transmission fluid. Seems pretty easy.

Do I have any other options on the type of transmission fluid I can use?

I've done work on my previous audi. From changing oil, brakes, bearing to full control arm replacement.

beastUA6

Pressure switches take 30 min max to do...very, very easy. Just make sure you locate the correct switches and don't get em mixed up when you replace them. Good way too tell them apart is by the color of the plastic where the connector snaps on. One will be brown, the other will be grey. Do em one at a time and don't over do it when you tighten (torque spec for both switches is 14 lb-ft).

vgorous

thanks beast!

I've been reading and shuffling through all these post re:these transmissions. I'll probably create a new thread to consolidate everything about these transmission if there isn't one yet.

My question now is. Will I be less likely prone to having a tranny failure if the VIN of my vehicle does not fall into any recalls? I just had the acura dealership call me back and they said that they did not find any recalls under my VIN. Possibly, they may have been able to rectify the problem before they started manufacturing my vehicle. Or are they just beating around the bush?

I'll still go ahead and replace my pressure switches first though. Then do the "flush".

beastUA6

There haven't been any recalls for the transmissions in our cars. I worked as a tech at a honda dealership here in Miami back in 2008. I can't tell you how many accord (98-02) transmissions and odyssey (don't remember what years) transmissions I replaced while working there, not to mention the ones all the other techs in the shop swapped too. They were all from v6 vehicles. It's just one of Honda/acura's known weak points. It's a shame too. And for those who think honda just replaces transmissions and doesn't take the time to look at them and fix them, I'll tell you why....a tech these days doesn't have enough time to go into an auto tranny and fix whatever's wrong with it. Takes too long, which leads to more labor the customer has to pay and they can't really guarantee that it'll be completely fixed. So instead they replace transmission with a factory remanufactured transmission. This is basically the equivalent to a brand new transmission. Upon replacing ur old, worn out tranny the dealership ships it to wherever Honda rebuilds their transmissions where it is inspected to see what caused the failure. Then they basically reuse the case and put fresh guts in it and ship it to the next dealership where it gets installed into someone else's car who needs a new tranny as well. It cuts cost down and allows them to basically guarantee that the transmission will do its job and last.

abirvalg

07 and up have external cooling in the bottom portion of the main radiator, the 04 -06 have a cooling block inside the AT, hence you can't just swap the AT
this is beside all sorts of possible mounting hole differences

one good thing about 04-06 AT is the accessibility of the filter, so you can either change it routinely or remove and add and inline magnifine if you wish, neither is possible with 07 as the filter is buried inside the AT with no direct access

my 05' AT failed because of the filter, so ...

beastUA6

I REFUSE to change my transmission fluid without changing the filter. It's practically pointless...

abirvalg

well, i looked up 13' AT and it appears Honda had finally realized what filters are for, and placed it so it can be easily swapped

stingman

I just bought a 2004 TL Nav with 186K miles for $4K. The tranny was rebuilt at an independent tranny shop at 182K miles; so far so good. The invoice for the rebuild shows $2900 parts and labor; about half and half parts and labor. They replaced the torque converter and installed a major overhaul kit.
Before I bought the car, I looked at all my annual back issues of Consumers Reports for reliability information. Up to and including 2003, major tranny problems show all black balls (much worse than average). 2004 and up show all red balls (much better than average.) My questions are: what changes were made for the 2004 tranny and are the current failures I'm seeing in the forum now, the same failures that occurred with the 2001-2003?

abirvalg

don't quote me on it, but from what i've heard, the issues with pre-2004 ATs were mainly mechanical, weak components and such
2004 and up on the other hand seem to be more prone to inadequate maintenance expectations, such as switches and filters
IMO 2004 ATs can live a long happy life if regularly serviced, and you don't even need to flush it, just replace the fluid (drain and fill) and the filter about every 15K and the switches every 60K

i also expect to see a larger fallout on the later years ATs that feature internal filter, once those filters start failing

beastUA6

Pre 2003 Honda had major issues with there not being enough clutch material on the synchro disks inside the clutch packs of their auto transmissions causing the transmission to slip in these gears or just quit altogether. I know this because I saw it first hand when I was working at the dealership. They even had issues with the 2nd/3rd gear synchros of their manual trannys for a while. I know when they remodeled the civic in 2006, they had this same problem in some of their civic si transmissions. Difference is they'll swap the synchros for the manual trans. at the dealership. But for the autos they have to swap the entire transmission due to what I stated above about time and cost efficiency.

Yikes

I'm not an expert on anything, but I'd say I have a better grasp of why the 5 speed A/T in the 2000 - 2003 TLs failed rather than the 3G problems that exist.

But as I understand it, the problems aren't really the same at all. (But I could be wrong.)

From what I've read, the problems at exist in the 3G have something to do with the pressure switches and skipping a gear while downshifting. (Could be wrong on the last part.)

As far as the problems with '00 - '03 TLs, or any late 1990s to early 2000s Honda automatic transmission is concerned, there is way more than one way these things have been known to fail by.

One of the ways, as beastUA6 said, is the friction material on the clutches wears thin and 2nd gear starts slipping, which wears the material off, spreading it through the transmission which causes other problems.

Another reason why these earlier transmissions failed was because the casing was poorly designed and restricted the flow of the transmission fluid. To try and counter this, Honda ran a campaign in the early 2000s that installed an oil jet kit where the fill plug would be. While this helped fluid flow better (primarily to 2nd gear), it didn't necessarily fix the problems.

Most automatic transmissions (As far as the 2G TL is concerned, with the exception of the 1999 model year) replaced in or after spring of 2005 had a redesigned casing which actually solved the problem with regards to the poor fluid circulation.

However, here is the biggest culprit of all:

For some reason within the valve body, the steel valves get stuck in their bores (where as the aluminium ones don't) and are unable to open/close, which causes problems in the circulation of fluid. This is the primary cause of the "harsh reverse gear engagement" problem, which is described by Honda as one of the early warning signs that your transmission is about to fail. The reverse clutch pressure control valve gets stuck and cannot regulate the flow of fluid that goes into the clutch pack.

But the biggest problem with these stuck valves is in the main pressure regulator valve. This valve controls the amount of fluid that flows into the torque converter. When this thing gets stuck, the torque converter doesn't get the amount of fluid it needs, and thus over heats. Once your converter over heats, your transmission is pretty much toasted. No pun intended.

The only way that I know of how to fix this problem is during a rebuild, you drill a small hole from line to converter charge in the circuit, so even if the valve gets stuck again fluid can still get to the torque converter.

stingman

Thanks for the detailed answers. I feel much better now knowing that new switches and frequent transmission flushes will keep my 04 TL healthy.
Here is a breakdown of the parts and labor costs to fix the tranny on 5/22/2013.
The initial problem statement was described as: slips bad in forward gears, trans fluid badly burnt.
The car had to be flat-bedded to the shop (Trans-Medic in Windham NH)

Labor:$1530 (R&R transaxle, rebuild transaxle, replace torque converter, flush cooler lines, road test).
Parts: $1340 (Part #MK500LS master overhaul kit $395) kit includes clutches, & steel plates, gaskets, bushings and seals/ sealing rings)
(Part # 28010-PZ7-305 * control solenoid $130)
(Part # 28020-PZW-305 * torque converter solenoid $140)
(Part # HO-80 * Torque converter $325)
(Part # B7WA-03 * Trans filter $30)
( Transmission fluid 10 qts. $50)
(Front engine support mount $200)
(Passenger side support mount $70).
Total parts and labor $2870.
Please don't ask me for any more info on the tranny as this information was gleaned from the warranty info that came with the car. The warranty was: 12 months or 12,000 miles and unfortunately for me, was not transferable.

DC2Teg97

Bump