I recently obtained an 04' MT TL with 85,500 miles. I have put 700 miles on it and have begun experiencing issues. While driving, I took the car to 5k in 1st gear, and 5k in 2nd gear. When I tried to shift to 3rd, the shifter would not come out of 2nd gear unless I really put some effort into it. After stopping the car, I determined I was unable to shift the car while it was on. I replaced the clutch master cylinder, and bleed the clutch just like I would bleed brakes (pump the clutch 3 times and hold, open/close the bleeder screw on the slave). This seemed to help the issue, as when the car was moving I was able to shift with no issues. But about 50% of the time when I come to a stop light, it would not go into 1st smoothly. I would have to pump the clutch multiple times.

So today, I replaced the slave cylinder and bleed the system in a different way which was recommended by my mechanic. I put a hose on the end of the bleeder screw and guided it into a clear bottle, open the bleeder screw, then push the clutch down to the floor, and then closed the bleeder screw. Pulled the pedal up, and repeat. This got out a little bit of air, and I bleed nearly half a bottle of fluid through, which is coming out clear now.

After doing all of this, the car will not go onto 1st from a stop about 20% of the time, which is very annoying. Requires pumping the clutch to get it to go into gear. Once the car is in motion under normal driving conditions, the car shifts fine. However, if I take the car up high in the rev's (5-6k) then it has the same issues as initially noted, it will not come out of gear.

Looking to you guys for opinions on what this issue could be?

 

Have you tried replacing the transmission fluid with the GM/AC Delco friction modified? That might solve your problem. All of us MT owners on this forum have done that with startling results. Do a search on "friction modified".
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Is that the same as Synchromesh? And no, I have not tried that yet. I have used that in other hondas that have 3rd gear snicks/grinds and it fixed the issue.

But I didn't think the issues I am having would be related to tranny fluid.

 

Check the shifter cable bushings on the transmission. They could be damaged, causing the lever not to work as well. Next, try the fluid. The AC Delco Synchromesh Friction Modified is what you want. If the gears in the trans are poorly lubricated, then the metal pieces you're trying to separate or put together will fight the shift.

 

I agree it is worth a shot, as is a very cheap fix. Although I am still confused as to why the issue is intermittent, but it always happens when running the car to high RPMS.

Would you not think its the clutch/pressure plate?

 

Do the gears grind ever?

When you manage to get it into gear while still depressing the clutch pedal, does the car jerk?

When it doesn't want to come out of gear, are you absolutely pressing as hard as you possibly can? Try using the accelerator pedal to modulate the forces on the gears so that the input/output shafts have no forces on one another. I realize I'm not explaining this well, but I've noticed that you can pop it out of gear with no clutch and minimal effort if you work the accelerator pedal correctly.

 

the master cylinder tends to fail more than the slave cylinder, i'd check that as well.

If you push the clutch pedal in does the slave move?

edit: oops, nevermind you already replaced both cylinders. I think justin had the same issue with difficult shifting and a new clutch/pp helped that problem. If it's an 04, who knows how worn the clutch is.

 

The gears absolutely never grind.


Under normal conditions the car never really jerks when shifting either.


Yes, the clutch is depressed all the way when it will not come out of gear. And yes when this happened today, I pulled over and pumped the clutch, but it still would not shift. But when I revved it up a little, I could shift it into another gear. This is why I think it may be the pressure plate just not releasing. Or maybe the self adjusting portion of the clutch is "done", as in te adjustments is all the way out. Not sure how to say that.

 

Right. And I wasn't the original owner, I've put less than 1k on it. The clutch seemed fine when I first got it though. Just starting having these issues one day.


Forgot to mention that when the car would not shift, the clutch pedal stuck to the floor. But after bleeding the system, that doesn't happen anymore.

 

I wanted to touch on this again. I've noticed that when I am sitting at a dead stop, and when it will not go into gear, if i blip the throttle then I can shift into 1st. Very odd.

I havn't flushed the tranny fluid yet, was planning on doing that in a few days. I just dont want to replace the clutch/flywheel if thats not the problem.

 

Man that is very odd. Why wouldn't the gears engage: either bad synchro (shafts not rotating) or bad clutch/pp (shafts are rotating). If blipping the throttle allows you to put it in gear, you might need a new clutch because it's causing the shafts to move, but that doesn't necessarily rule out a synchro problem as well. Try the fluid first though. It's $30 bucks for 3 qts. You want AC Delco 88900399 (Old GM part number is 12377916, replaced by the AC Delco one above). Go from there.

 

Some TL's had the transmissions worked on by dealers to replace the 3rd gear gearset and synchro's due to issues with 3rd gear popping out or being difficult to engage. The early fix was simply to put in GM's Synchromesh Modified fluid, then Acura came out with a new Manual Trans Fluid that was just as good. But the problem still happened for some and thus the sets were redesigned and sent to dealers.

However some tech's aren't the best at working on transmissions and screw up reverse or another gear. I hope this helps out!

 

Do you know if that would shown up on a car fax? Or possibly the dealer would be able to provide me a service history of the vehicle based on VIN? Just wondering if that would be documented somewhere.

 

If I end up getting a clutch, I would like to get an LUK based on it's recommendation all over this section of acurazine. My biggest concern is the self adjusting pressure plate becoming unsprung during shipping, which would make it worthless, as I don't have the tool to spring it back.

Suggestions?

 

You or the shop can reset the pressure plate by doing this:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...h-can-be-reset

or this:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng86.shtml

also note that he says there's a lock on the PP itself to prevent it from getting sprung. This is probably used in lieu of the special tool that Honda requires in the service manual. From what people have posted here on acurazine, no tool is required as the PP is already prepared out of the box.

 

10-4 thanks for that info.

So, I re-bled the system and flushed out the tranny fluid for Syncromesh. The car absolutely shifts better now, it used to have a clunky feeling going from 1st to 2nd, but I don't experience that anymore.


I've only drive the car 30-40 miles since doing this, and it seems to be going into 1st at red lights now. I'll see in the coming days with my city driving to see if its actually fixed.


But, about 50% of the time I press in the clutch, it has a click/clunk sound and feel. Which I'm not sure what that is, and find it odd that it only occurs sometimes. I think it may be throw out bearing or the fingers in the pressure plate and not releasing all the way.


Thoughts?

 

if you feel and hear a clicking noise through the pedal that could be the master cylinder..which part # did you use? there was a revised part # in a TSB that resolves the clicking noise.

failed part #: 46920-S7A-A03 < I've seen this on ebay listed as brand new..but any part with that # would presumably have clicking issues.

replacement/succeeding #: 46920-S7A-A04

 

Unfortunately the master cylinder is a Napa brand. I had to buy it on an emergency basis :/

It's just odd that the clicking just now started. Been on that new master cylinder for about 100+ miles.


On a positive note, I've had 0 issues engaging the clutch from a stop into 1st gear today.

 

Hey I got the same problem as you, and I put in a brand new clutch less than 10k ago. I have a really hard time getting into 1st at a complete stop, 1st and reverse. I usually have to shift to 3rd, then move it to 1st.. Aside from that the car shifts normally. I noticed this happened more after I installed my short shifter, I thought maybe I destroyed my 1st and Reverse synchros. Looks like you got some good results with the Synchromesh, I will try this ASAP.

 

What kind of clutch did you put in? Who installed it? If it was OEM/LUK did you check to see if the pressure plate was still sprung before you installed it?

 

Yeah I got the OEM / LUK clutch put in, I had my boy who's been a Honda mechanic for over 10 years put it in so I trust he knows what he's doing. I should mention though, at the time I couldn't get my hands on Synchromesh as all the local GM dealers didn't have it in stock. We put in the OLD Honda MT fluid in the black bottle, not the newer revised grey bottle.

I'm going to order some Synchromesh soon and check back in with my results.

 

Well, just to give the thread an update, the clicking has reduced with the amount of hours I drive the car.

Also, I used the yellow Pensoil Synchromesh that you can get at the auto parts store.

 

So besides the clicky clutch pedal, the shifter works fine after putting in the Pennzoil Synchromesh?

 

Bringing this thread back from the dead.

So seems the Syncromesh bought me some time, but the issue came back. Clutch grabbing inconsistent. Now it grabs literally right on the floor and is hard to shift gears. Someone's te shifter does not want to go into gear sometimes.

So, I am concerned with getting a LUK clutch because of the self adjusting pressure plate. I do not want it to become bumped in shipping because I do not have the tool to respring it. I was hoping LUK would ship the pressure plate in such a way that it could not be unsprung during shipping.

If that's not an option, I may need to go with an aftermarket clutch and single mass flywheel, but I've heard negative things about aftermarket clutches in our car. But I am wondering if those are people one ushering aftermarket clutches with a dual mass flywheel which of course would have issues.

 

I just started a different thread about this today. I had similar issues but it was only after I did a hard shift where the clutch was grabbing on the floor and the pedal needed to be pumped. Where the clutch grabbing would also move around sometimes it would be near the floor and normally it would be near the top. I also had trouble putting it in first and reverse sometimes. I needed to pump the clutch to get it to go into gear. I just got the clutch/pressure plate replaced it needed replaced anyways. (102,000 miles) All the problems went away and the clutch pedal feel improved 100%. I believe it has something to do with the self adjusting pressure plate.

 

What kind of clutch/pressure plate did you replace it with? Did you do it yourself or have the dealer do it? If you did it yourself, was there anything preventing the PP from becoming unsprung during shipping?

 

I replaced it with the OEM/Luk Pressure Plate and Clutch. I ended up taking it to the dealership they were willing to use my parts. Plus I could be sure they would use the correct tool to install the pressure plate. I don't think I have ever seen where the pressure plate can become unsprung during shipping. The OEM pressure plate only had slight differences compared to a non self adjusting plate.

 

This is what LUK said: "Good morning

Thank you for your interest in the Schaeffler Group USA and our products.

LUK clutches are shipped unadjusted. The clutch can be installed out of the box. When the clutch is used for the first time, the self adjusting mechanism will adjust the clutch to the proper setting."

 

I currently have the same problem with my car. Had the clutch and flywheel (Aasco flywheel) changed. Had everything done at a Aamco. Took it back a few times and they always claimed that my car was shifting properly when it obviously wasn't. Haven't changed the clutch fluid as of yet, but intended on changing the bushing because of this post. Hopefully I can get some decent recommendations from here for this.

 

Do you know if they used the pressure plate tool?

I still haven't pulled the trigger on replacing the clutch.

 

No, I don't know if they used the pressure plate tool. I initially had my clutch and flywheel changed in July of 2012. I know this was a long time ago, but when I initially had the clutch and flywheel replaced, I started having this problem. (Btw I had the same issue even before I changed the clutch and flywheel).

I took my car back to Aamco a few times and complained about the shifting, but they didn't do anything about it. I stopped going to the shop when the idiot told me that I'm not supposed to drive my car above 4,500rpm..

I changed the shifter bushing yesterday, but I'm still no luck.

 

I'm pretty sure I've fixed my issue. I'll know for sure after a weeks worth of driving to and from work.

When I replaced the clutch master cylinder, I didn't have the clutch adjusted correctly. There was 1.5 inches of free play. The manual reends .4-.7 inches. So I changed it to .5, and so far so good. Even when I get on it hard and go to shift, there are no stiffness or engagement issues.

 

Luck you, I still have a sucky car to deal with for a while lol..well my next move was to change the transmission fluid and the master cylinder at the same time. That's mainly because I used to hear some clicking when pressing the clutch.
Do you by any chance have a link for instructions on how to adjust the clutch after installing the master cylinder?

 

No instructions, sorry. If you replace the master cylinder, you will see how to adjust it. I would recommend doing the master cylinder and slave cylinder at the same time if you do it. And get OEM

 

Ok, thanks. That will be my early spring project because the weather here in Philly isn't the best to mess with my car right now