myTaLizaS3.2

HELLLLOOOOO AZ!!! I've been MIA from this scene for a few years. Just checking in here and there. If you dont remember me, I put 2k Projectors in my 03 TL.... anywho...

So my 06 Tl Manual's running pretty good and Im just used to the power now. Thinking about Turbo or Supercharger somewhere down the line. I'm so used to the reliability of the car that I'd hate to ruin it by adding more power. I guess my question is, which would be the most reliable to get? I want to assume its the SC because I've heard many stories about TC.

I pretty much want this...
1) Faster car
2) Still reliable without me going out of my way to fix things often
3) Be able to pass smog

What do you guys think?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

J&R turbo

/thread.


400-500whp streetable.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/j-r-turbo-kit-sale-excelerate-performance-792266/

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/kikazz-acura-tl-type-s-jandr-turbo-kit-transformation-begins-3-days-550-whp-goal-811586/

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/my-diy-j-r-turbo-install-773668/

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-photograph-gallery-96/2004-acura-tl-turbo-j-r-next-level-performance-758184/

you'll be beating exotics.
Game Over.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

You can't go wrong with the J&R turbo.

I'm a very happy customer.

BTW, if you decide something either way, I have a 06/MT harness and F/IC you might be interested in. The J&R ECU is the way to go but it adds cost to the package.

myTaLizaS3.2

thanks guys, let me take a look at the pages and get back to you guys later...

myTaLizaS3.2

Thanks for the input. How much did you end up spending for your complete setup from start to finish.

DecaFe1

turbo is the more powerfull setup, but its not for everyone, and i HIGHLY doubt youll be beating exotics..

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I honestly lost count but there are some figures in the thread of my build and I think in XLR8's thread.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Smog legal is going to be the supercharger. Comptech is 50 state legal with the stock cats. Turbo kit, not so much. There are states where you can get away with it, but the turbo is not going to be smog legal.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Expect to spend up to 20k.

When I finally get a chance, I decided to do a RWD conversion and maybe try to get a DCT transmission in before I begin the turbo. That alone is at least 20k.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

^^^ Up to $20k? You shouldn't be anywhere near that mark unless you're building a brand new engine with high-dollar parts. It doesn't sound like the OP is looking for anything like that.

myTaLizaS3.2, if you're just looking for more power than you'll ever need, and looking to have it reliable you can get into a J&R turbo kit for around $9-$11k.

My personal recommendations:
J&R turbo kit - $5800
J&R ECU (Seriously, if you're going to spend the money on a turbo kit, do it right and get the stand-alone ECU) - $1390
Upgraded exhaust - ~$1000
Upgraded clutch - ~$1800
Wideband kit - ~$300
Oil pressure gauge - ~$100
Meth kit - $300-500

That'll put you right around the $11k mark.

Lastly, be prepared for it to take a LONG time before your car is done. I'm going on 1.5 years on my build (though I'm doing substantially more than what's outlined above). J&R is a smaller operation and it can take a substantial amount of time to get your parts.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I forgot to mention, there are a few reasons why I don't like the CT S/C. First off is the fact that there are no aftercoolers for it. Your intake charge temps are going to be quite high after a period of regular cruising. You can add a water/meth kit to lower the intake temps, but that's only effective when under boost. Once out of boost, the temps will creep back up to where they were. Next up is that the MP62 blower is undersized for this engine (which attributes to the higher intake temps). I also don't like CT's half-assed approach to engine management. They provide an ACM unit which changes the VTEC engagement point and attempts to add more fuel to compensate for the additional air. It does so poorly. Very poorly. Next up is their FPR crush mod. It's a hack-ish attempt at best to supply more fuel to the engine.

CT should have provided a unit similar to the AEM F/IC at a minimum as well as upgraded injectors. It would have added about $500-700 to the purchase price, but it would have alleviated many of the issues that people have had with the kit in the past.

The increased intake temps are going to cause an already sensitive engine to produce more knock and in return, pull more timing. It's going to hurt power and continue to dump hot air into the engine.

By the time that you spend the money to have the blower upgraded, buy new injectors, upgrade the ACM and any additional upgrades, you'll be at the same price point as getting the turbo with all of the right parts.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Those numbers are what I experienced as well. $20K is extreme.

Time wise, I am driving it but it's still not finished. I know people are getting theirs done by a shop. Like bmeyer, I did everything myself and have been at it for about 18 months too. I've said it before. Working on it is as much if not more enjoyment for me than driving it.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I said "Up to 20k" because of kikazz build which he said he spent over 15k. How about install and everything?

How much have you two spent? I must've misread somewhere, but I remember seeing numbers of 15-20k total.

BSpecialist

Install a turbo and a s/c! That would be bossome.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Kikazz said he had $25K into his build but he went into a full engine rebuild like bmeyer and libert69 are doing.

I've probably got $7K in before the clutch and ecu purchase which put's it close to what bmeyer stated. This is a full DIY project.

I don't think anyone has said what the cost installed by a shop cost them.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Let's just say I've surpassed kikazz's price tag a while ago... I've done it all myself so I have quite a few extra goodies that he didn't have though.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I was about $3600 in install with the clutch and timing belt and SC removal done at the same time. Another 6+ hrs of tuning on the dyno, but my car runs very well and is tuned for 91. This was one of the first installs and took 5 weeks with hrs of over the phone tech support from Rodney and his tuner. 15k is possable with paying to have all the work done and including supporting mods like coil overs, wheels/ tires, gauges, meth injection and whatever else you feel you need or want. I think my shop wanted $5000+ for the install of everything I wanted to do at the time.

pass427

On average with install and all goodies the total should not exceed 11k and that's a complete turbo install tuning gauges ect and DIY you'll save some money for sure ..speedimages just tuned a Tl supercharger with our ecu they maybe be able to give you an unbias thought on supercharger and cost of tuning and install...

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

SC! Considering you can get them for sub-$3k around here, it's tried and true, and is a relatively easy install. That's still my plan. 300 at the wheels would make me plenty happy.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

There is nothing that sounds better than the whine of a S/C.

If I could get the CT Engineering to hit 400whp-500whp with the J&R ECU with meth kit and other goodies, I would go with the S/C.

If not, I'd go with the T/C.

j-rogsuperstar

Hm. Maybe not QUITE 400, but with all of that (and some other mods), I can't help but think you would be close.

Altough I could swear I read on a thread about that ECU that S/C guys don't really need the ECU...maybe that's just me though.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The sound of the turbo blowoff isn't bad either.

The ACM that comes with the SC has issues. To get a completely correct tune, you need a J&R ECU. At the very least, the F/IC should be used.

pass427

We do have a forum member with our ecu on a supercharge Tl but ill let him go ahead and comment as I did speak with tuner and it worked out for him but I'm sure he will update soon ...
To hit 400+ a high boost pulley will be needed and at least an intercooler as heat soak will be a killer and combustion chamber will be super hot especially with regular octane ..

handsom-hustla

iTrader: (3)

mystery jandr ecu member on the sc, please provide us with some details.!!!!!

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

What was his numbers? (area atleast)
i ask cuz this is the route i would like to take.

Clutch,ecu, s/c,meth = 6K... hp??? tq??

Turbo,clutch,ecu = 11K.. and according to you, maxed at 422HP (forgot TQ) for a stable DD no internal work done..

So 4-5K difference for how much hp?

Correct me if im wrong on anything, anyone..

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The SC only puts out 3 psi with open exhaust so 340-360 WHP is about what you would make with the ECU being able to advance timing. With the SC you are locked into the level of boost, so you maximize HP at that boost level. Go to a larger blower and you are looking at similar price to the turbo without the ability to turn it up as easily.

If you are on a budget or just getting into FI in the TL than SC is the way to go. I was making an additional 100 HP on that 3 psi so it's no slouch. I always wondered what big psi numbers would be like, so I went from SC to turbo. My mechanic drive the car back to the shop and called me saying are you sure you want to do this, the car is already very fast.

Driving the car after going from sc to the turbo, the increased TQ is amazing. I pass people so hard I rarely get anyone who wants to play and that's in 5th gear. Drop down to 4th and hold on, I usually shift to 4th and drop back just to pass like you were standing still.

I heard people taking about closing distance ( how fast you are gaining in other cars) but it means nothing until you can accelerate at 25-30 mph per second and have to calculate for where you will be once in boost.

The SC was much more instant boost, but once you got into full boost it leveled off interms of acceleration. With the turbo the car accelerates harder and harder as you push it. The sound of the turbo is not as intimidating but the shear change in forward velocity is a whole different feeling.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Thats great and all, but like your mechanic... you sure you want to go faster... lol 100hp is more than enough for fun.. i already have all bolt on mods for over 2 years so the fun just isn't there like it used to be.

i am just getting into FI. I am also in NYC so its not like i have the road to go crazy but hitting the throttle a few times is def fun. Car is parked 5 out of the 12 months so its just something to do ( driven 5000 miles since November 2010)... I was actually getting tired of the TL but don't want to go get another car... i can still play with this one.
And with the addition of the JR ECU, i think it can really help everything out..

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Buy the SC and call it a day. It transforms the car into a whole new beast. If you are like me and hate that just because you have $140k to drop on a car you think you can zoom by me than turbo up. I am on the very extreme end of TL moding and want to drive a Honda supercar in sedan form. How fast do want to go is the question. For me I want a DD that can lay tracks on all but the most modified cars if I choose.

All this BS about hi powered FWD cars being not as good is just that BS, once you are moving you can accelerate just as fast or many times faster than a RWD ( because of power). I'm still trying to get a good reading on how fast this car can accelerate. Maybe 20 mph per second could be 30 mph per second. Full boost 3rd gear 40-90, 4th 40-140, I can't look down at the gauges to see how quickly the mph is rising.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

I agree with you 100%.. All i really see out here are vettes here and there... no real "super" cars... but everybody thinks they hot shit if they rolling in a BMW, or MB. Plus roads suck here... If theirs traffic, there wont be no "race" cuz i wont do it. been there done that.. i just like to do my occasional here and there flooring... For me( to get my foot in the door in FI) Ima go the S/C, clutch, ECU way for next years summer (with all other supporting mods and no internal work done)

Hopefully the person with the S/c and ecu is m/t and can show some numbers..

hi speed - What was your final S/c numbers and did you have internal work done?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I stayed all stock internally and still am. I dynoed 3-4 times and my highest was 327 WHP and lowest was 318 WHP. When I was all stock except for the SC ( I'm embarrassed to say was 271 WHP) up from 211 all stock. Once I change out to hi flow cats, ATLP exhaust and the ATLP j pipe, the car picked up about 50 HP .

I loved the SC and even felt the car was slower with the turbo until I got to run it WOT and wow the extra TQ was very noticeable. With the SC I would drop down to 4th if someone wanted to play, now I dont go to 4th unless I am playing with someone with some real HP. 4th at full boost will spin the tires at 80-90 mph even with the new 255's.

If I were entering the FI game right now I would go SC just to get a feel for the extra power and SC's are cheap since the turbo came out. I paid full price for my SC about $5000 when I started, now $3000 is a good price for a used SC . The small market for these power adder items, makes selling this stuff hard so, think long and hard before you buy something because selling it is a losing game. If this is a fleeting interest DON'T buy it because if you can't see yourself using it for atleast 20k you will be losing big $$$.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Wow... 271... SUCKS!!! lol
Well i literally have all bolt-ons and those little supporting mods here and there so hopefully i'll have more than that 327.. Plus the ability to tune..
I think it'll be a great winter project.. im searching for parts now...
if you could PM your email Hi speed just to keep a more open line of communication just in case i need help with something, i'd appreciate it.

thanks.
Alex

Noober

iTrader: (7)

Wow, very useful information on here! I've been researching/reading up on supercharging the TL-S and am on the process for it to be done.

So.. the ACM which comes with the CTE kit has issues humm.. Where would I get my hands on the JnR ECU? How much do they go for?

Additional information on the JnR ECU would be great as well!

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Click on the J&R Stand-alone ECU link in my signature.

Edit: Rodney's site seems to be down at the minute. Send a PM to pass427 or email him at rodney(at)acuratlturbo.com

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

There is also a thread on the ECU:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=ECU

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Update?

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

I almost feel like I have to get on this. Having j-pipe and quad exhaust making that mean noise, you'd think the car would be fast

Opel

You can over, 400....but i think 500 is well outta sight...unless you do some SERIOUS motor work at the same time.

But 400 is well in the horizon for way less than 11g's. Especially when you buy a used SC.
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And btw, any of you turbo guys ever monitor IATs during, and right after a hard wot run? just curious

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I run about 8 degrees over ambient durring normal driving and 10-12 after getting on it. On the other side park the car or get into some stop and go traffic and temps go up, 20+ over ambient for traffic and 40-50 after parking it. A good run after parking or traffic clearing up I can drop 15-20 degrees and am usually back to my normal 8 degrees above in 2-3 mins of driving.

Opel

Thats quiet good. The IC is doing its wonders....the run numbers, include meth use, correct? i think i'm pretty sure you're running that, but i could be wrong.
Havent been around here in a while

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

What are your temps opel?

I didn't hit you up today since you told me you were taking it easy.. ima order the stuff tomorrow.